Transgender Girl Banned From Bathroom Wins Case
Source: ABC/Yahoo
Coy Mathis, a 6-year-old transgender girl who was banned from her first-grade bathroom, has won a statewide legal case in Colorado that might have far-reaching implications for the rest of the nation in protecting the rights of transgender children.
Coy, born a triplet, had been home schooled since last December, when school officials told her parents that she could no longer use the female facilities and ordered her to use the boys' or nurse's bathroom.
Her parents, Jeremy and Kathryn Mathis, with the help of the Transgender Legal and Defense Education Fund (TLDEF), filed a complaint with the Colorado Civil Rights Division on behalf of Coy, alleging that the school has violated her rights.
"This is amazing because it is not just a win for Coy, but a win for every transgender child in the entire state," her mother, Kathryn Mathis, told ABCNews.com today. "It's amazing for all of them and their future. It lets them be who they are. They don't have to spend their childhood being discriminated against."
Read more: http://gma.yahoo.com/transgender-girl-banned-1st-grade-bathroom-wins-case-144100636--abc-news-health.html
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Deep13
(39,154 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)with all due respect, I think that ship has sailed.
at times, I think it may be a regular route. 
Deep13
(39,154 posts)Refusing to admit the lack of knowledge eliminates any chance to learn.
Are you interested at all in discoving new ideas or do you just take pleasure in feeling superior to others?
Gender is a social construct, so what is confusing me is whether this is a gender or sex matter. In either case, I'm wondering how a 6-yr.-old knows.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)then when i followed that logic to say that at age 6, you did not know if you were a boy or a girl, you said that was an insult.
case closed.
you insulted the child because when i posed the question you asked of that 6 year old, when i asked it of you...you said it was an insult.
you insulted the child. own it or apologize for it.
1. Really? A 6-yr.-old? How can they tell? nt
marshall
(6,665 posts)And one hopes she is generally being kept from reading online discussions about this case.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)but given your posting, not surprised that you have made a joke of this.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)I imagine there is some kind of test, but I did not know that a sex identity beyond one that is socially constructed could exist in a little kid.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)thanks for explaining that to us.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)Anyway, I'm not interested in exchanging insults with you.
Response to Deep13 (Reply #39)
CreekDog This message was self-deleted by its author.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)easier target huh.
next time you want to make fun of a child who declares his/her gender identity, people here will call you out on that.
Response to Deep13 (Reply #1)
Post removed
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)this story is bringing folks out of the woodwork.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I don't know if you've been living in the forest for 30 years, but being trans gender is recognized by science.
Malik Agar
(102 posts)This is not an insult to transgendered people. All I'm saying is that at 6 years old people have no idea what they are.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)My cousin, who is currently transitioning from mtf said she was aware as young as three that things didn't add up and she didn't feel like "a boy".
I'm not saying all 6 year olds have a sophisticated awareness of gender, but doctors are finding that quite young kids are aware when their body doesn't match up to what their brain is telling them.
zazen
(2,978 posts)Seriously. I guess I could google it but you're clearly up on all of this. Are there actually brain differences on MRI that have been identified, or chemical differences? I keep up with science as a layperson but I truly may have just missed out on this, and if so, my apologies.
Per my other post downthread, is the argument now that _biologically_ gender _is_ to some degree a predetermined construct having to do with estrogen/testosterone dominance?
I can't think of any other reason than that why a child would "know" early on that something didn't feel right, but if you're/they're arguing that hermaphroditism extends to changes in hormonal and neurochemical internal, subjective experience (which might not be mirrored via visible hermaphroditic sex characteristics) then I guess I can understand this point of view a little better.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)It's probably a complex mix of factors.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html#.UcjFFz6Y6hY
(this article uses the term "transexual" which I'm not sure is really in use anymore, but it goes into the science...)
Differences in the brain's white matter that clash with a person's genetic sex may hold the key to identifying transsexual people before puberty. Doctors could use this information to make a case for delaying puberty to improve the success of a sex change later.
Medics are keen to find concrete physical evidence to help those children who feel they are trapped in the body of the opposite sex. One key brain region involved is the BSTc, an area of grey matter. But the region is too small to scan in a living person so differences have only been picked up at post-mortem.
Antonio Guillamon's team at the National University of Distance Education in Madrid, Spain, think they have found a better way to spot a transsexual brain. In a study due to be published next month, the team ran MRI scans on the brains of 18 female-to-male transsexual people who'd had no treatment and compared them with those of 24 males and 19 females.
They found significant differences between male and female brains in four regions of white matter – and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.05.006). "It's the first time it has been shown that the brains of female-to-male transsexual people are masculinised," Guillamon says.
<snip>
zazen
(2,978 posts)
wordpix
(18,652 posts)
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)they don't know and "The parents need to act like parents here" when supporting their child is exactly what they need to be doing "like parents".
obama2terms
(563 posts)When I was 6 I was a tom boy ( brothers did that haha) but I still knew that I'm female. He just knew there was something different about him, and I guess he wanted to be a girl.
Response to Post removed (Reply #4)
Purveyor This message was self-deleted by its author.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)really?
really?
you've been on DU how long?
Response to CreekDog (Reply #10)
Purveyor This message was self-deleted by its author.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)is this a joke to you?
context matters. is this a joke to you or not?
if not, then why make a joke of it? you clicked on a story about a transgendered kid. then you posted in apparent agreement or to make light of with a post that has now been hidden for being offensive.
what gives?
and yes, i hold you to a higher standard because you are here.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)1. 6...YOUR NOT SERIOUS...REALLY?
6 YOU BARELY KNOW YOUR NAME
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=516406
zazen
(2,978 posts)This is a genuine question. Since gender is a social construction, I'm not sure how one can be essentially one or the other in the first place, since we don't come into the world pre socially constructed. All gendered identities are inherently limiting, so it'd be sort of like screaming, I'm essentially "Black" because my mother was "Black" and my father was "White"--when in fact these are just social constructions born out of a screwed up hierarchical system that defined people by ridiculous arbitrary characteristics, as if blood could be measured out to fix your human identity.
I haven't ventured into this debate or really read up on it--I'm just applying radical feminist theory from the 80s and 90s about gender construction, which would maintain that gender isn't essentialist, by definition.
However, there's a great range of biological diversity and it's awful how children are forced into one identity or another because our crazy gender system doesn't allow for a baby with sex characteristics that aren't extreme in either direction to simply exist without being pushed into "girl" or "boy." My understanding is that this is transsexualism (or omni-sexualism, or ambi-sexualism), or clinically speaking, hermaphroditism, but not a transgender issue, right?
Or do I have the language mixed up?
Sincerely confused . . .
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)playing with dolls and crap too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria
zazen
(2,978 posts)MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)idea of a social construct of gender is quite offensive to transgender people.
marshall
(6,665 posts)I don't think dolls are only the domain of girls, neither are trucks only the domain of boys. Yet in nearly every article I have read they refer to the individual being drawn to stereotypically gendered objects and adornments that in my opinion are socially constructed.
I preferred the pre Clinton redical feminism of the 80s, when such stereotypes and social constructs were rejected.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)As a transgender woman I never played with dolls. Part of that may have been the way my dad would have reacted. I didn't really like trucks either.
As a kid what I liked:
Books, TV, video games (fantasy/imagination type stuff)
Dinosaurs (what kid who grew up in the 80s didn't)
Science and math
Space type stuff
Card/board games
The whole transgender liking dolls and throwing trucks in the trash does happen but it is not universal. The media depicts us that way to make it more normal though, I think. I've talked with many who had more androgynous/day dreamy/fantasy type stuff and not dolls or other super feminine stuff.
So I was not overly drawn to stereotypically gendered stuff, nor were many that I've spoken to. Of course, some others were.
Being transgender is not necessarily being a stereotype of the opposite biological sex.
sgsmith
(398 posts)Intersex is a catch all phrase that attempts to cover a lot of ground with disorders of sexual development. It covers people who have genitalia that are not unambiguously "female" or "male", as well as people who may look to be of one sex, but may have biological markers that don't match the apparent sex.
Gender isn't a purely social construction. It's a biological driven aspect of human life. For most, the outward genitalia match a person's self identity, or in other words, most people with female genitalia have female sexual drives. (Note - this is not a discussion of hetero or homo sexuality). This is generally called "cisgendered" - sex and gender match. For people who's gender expression doesn't match with their genitalia, that generally falls under the term "transgendered".
There's a rather famous case where a young boy had a badly botched circumcision. Doctors recommended to the parents that the boy have gender reassignment surgery, followed by appropriate hormonal treatment. Regardless of appearance, the boy was insistent that he wasn't a girl, and was suicidal by age 13. He eventually transitioned to male, married a woman, and later committed suicide.
zazen
(2,978 posts)
Hekate
(90,700 posts)The child is not a hermaphrodite, but was born a genetic and physical male. In his case, the wiring in his brain is telling him something else, very powerfully.
Gender is not solely a social construct -- an awful lot of it is hard-wired in our brains and bodies. As a young mom in the '70s (which is when the feminist movement occurred) I made sure my firstborn, a girl, had "boy toys" as well as "girl toys." She made a beeline for the girl toys and was never interested in the rest. When her brother came along, he proved to be a baby engineer -- who also spent all his gift-money on stuffed animals until he was about 10.
But it goes much further than that. So many things we used to think of as malleable turn out not to be so much. In my father's childhood great effort was made to "break" children of left-handedness, but now we know it is innate. Again, with my kids I put the spoon in the center of the high chair tray, and on the first try my son picked it up with his left hand, thus following a long line of left-handed males on both sides of the family.
My daughter runs a pre-school where she encourages boys and girls alike to dress-up and play whatever roles they want. It's good for their imaginations and their empathy, and most of the children are pretty darn clear about whether they are a boy or girl -- however, if ever a child should have a difference, this would be a very safe place to be.
Transgender persons are a small minority, but they exist, and with the overall population as large as it is, there are more of them as well.
As for a child that age or younger "knowing" -- we have testimony, often anguished, from LGBT youth and adults that they "always knew" -- and so many of them suffered abuse both at home and elsewhere. LGBT youth are at disproportionate risk for suicide and homelessness because of that abuse.
It still astonishes me when I read about families like this one -- their love, humanity, and willingness to accept their children for who they are just shines through.
zazen
(2,978 posts)
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)World Health Organisation
Genomic resource centre
Gender and Genetics
Genetic Components of Sex and Gender
http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html
Humans are born with 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs. The X and Y chromosomes determine a person’s sex. Most women are 46XX and most men are 46XY. Research suggests, however, that in a few births per thousand some individuals will be born with a single sex chromosome (45X or 45Y) (sex monosomies) and some with three or more sex chromosomes (47XXX, 47XYY or 47XXY, etc.) (sex polysomies). In addition, some males are born 46XX due to the translocation of a tiny section of the sex determining region of the Y chromosome. Similarly some females are also born 46XY due to mutations in the Y chromosome. Clearly, there are not only females who are XX and males who are XY, but rather, there is a range of chromosome complements, hormone balances, and phenotypic variations that determine sex.
Please, read entire article, it is very informative.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)Is this child feminine, a social construct, or actually female with erroneous parts?
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)While the social construct is a part of it. The view has changed that it's not just a social construct. I think it was driven home by the David Reimer case. (See Born a Boy, Raised a Girl)
Terminology evolves over time, so it's a moving target. Transgender is considered an umbrella term which may include most anything outside of the gender binary. Transsexual more specifically refers to ones gender identity not matching the biological sex. Essentially the Brains Gender and the bodies representation of that gender are not in alignment.
thesquanderer
(11,989 posts)Girls' bathrooms don't have urinals. She is obviously going to use a stall, which has a door. How would any of the other girls ever know what her genitalia looks like? (Now, the gym locker room could be a bit more complicated.)
Of course, you can see the problem right in the quote, they called her a boy.
Lugal Zaggesi
(366 posts)know they are sociopaths at age 6.
This is something that is hardwired in the brain - so technically,
the rules about not executing "children" who "don't know better" don't apply to these 6 year olds.
I bet some of those 'accidents" you read about kids shooting their parents or friends,
are just the first of many. But unlike 6 year old transgender children who know exactly who they are and insist on telling people, these little sociopaths know exactly who they are, so don't tell anybody.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)One of the big problems is that we come as we are, and we think that everyone else must be like us in some ways.
Do sociopaths, who basically have no way to connect with other people, see that they aren't like other people? Obviously they realize it at some point, although seeing outside their narcissistic bubble is another challenge.
I guess we could always ask Cheney- "When did you realize you were a Monster?"
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)It would seem logical that you are correct EXCEPT that there is a reason for transgendered kids to want to get some sort of relief for their conflict whereas the sociopathic kid you mention would not see anything out of the ordinary with themselves. They wouldn't be likely to see any need for any outside intervention since they would be quite satisfied with what they are. A boy who really identifies as a girl would naturally feel there was somehow something wrong as would a girl who identifies as a boy.
A wolf is a wolf, no matter what gender it may identify with.
Lugal Zaggesi
(366 posts)Exactly - a sociopath might feel no need to "change" anything - yet might still, rationally, realize he/she is quite different from other children. They would probably see others thinking they were "normal" children as a sign of weakness and stupidy. Early Man probably felt no twinge of "guilt" when killing an animal every day or two, it was just part of life - perhaps the ability to kill without compunction is a genetic throwback to earlier times, like those people covered in "fur" (an atavism). To be born without empathy - like an autistic child - plus fully rational, perhaps intelligent, and with an appreciation of the hunt and kill - this small change in brain chemistry/function could have vast effects on personality. And we'd give it a name, like "sociopath".
The interesting part is how punishments for murder hold children to a different standard, as though they haven't yet had time to 'figure out' morals and right from wrong.
If a wolf is indeed a wolf - because they were born sociopaths, which would be hardwired at age 6 as much as at 26 - then the whole point of the penal system treating these children as though they might "change" as they get older is invalid.
And don't pretend that these little monsters aren't out there killing already - with the prevalence of guns in America, I guarantee some of those "child accidental shootings" were planned out in cold blood, by child sociopaths. Unlike a transgender child, these sociopath children would be quite content being mistaken for something they are not.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)
