Al Franken Defends NSA Surveillance: It’s Not Spying, They’re Protecting Us

[savalez]

Source: TPM

Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) emerged as one of the most notable progressive defenders of the National Security Agency's sweeping surveillance programs on Monday when he expressed a "high level of confidence" that the federal government's collection of phone and Internet data has been effective in thwarting terrorism.

“I can assure you, this is not about spying on the American people,” Franken told Minneapolis-based CBS affiliate WCCO. The junior Minnesota senator, who's only been in the Senate since 2009, said he was “was very well aware of" the surveillance programs and was not surprised by a recent slate of bombshell reports by both The Guardian and The Washington Post.

“I have a high level of confidence that this is used to protect us and I know that it has been successful in preventing terrorism,” Franken said.



Read more: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/al-franken-defends-nsa-surveillance-this-is-not

[redstatebluegirl]

1. Thank you Senator Franken voice of reason!

[carla]

74. You jest.

Violation of the 4th Amendment is a danger to reason.

[WeekendWarrior]

119. How does looking at phone meta-data violate

the 4th Amendment?

[ucrdem]

81. +1

[4bucksagallon]

105. Yep we need cooler heads in the Senate and Congress and Franken is becoming

one of my favorites. I am willing to see how this all shakes out but I don't see the big deal. Thanks Al, loved your reading of Operation Chicken Hawk, he told it like it was for the Republican cowards of the Vietnam era.

[Tarheel_Dem]

2. Look out behind ya, Al!!!!!

[treestar]

28. lol that cartoon!

[Tarheel_Dem]

30. It's funny cuz it's true.

[SoapBox]

3. Thank you Al!!!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you for saying that!

[Purveyor]

4. Cower in fear Senator...that's the ticket. eom

[baldguy]

38. There's no rational way anyone could consider this to be "cowering in fear".

On the other hand, trying to conflate anonymous lists of phone numbers without any names or content attached to them with some spook actively listening in on *your* personal phone calls...

[Cha]

88. Exactly what I was thinking, baldguy. who's the one

who's ?

[LanternWaste]

61. It would appear you've broadened the definition of 'fear' to a point...

It would appear you've broadened the definition of 'fear' to a point in which it becomes meaningless.

Best way to maintain your own dogmas, I suppose.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. Apparently it takes about four years to fully absorb whatever it is they put in the water in

Senate office building.

[LanternWaste]

62. Most popular way to maintain one's own intractable dogma

Most popular way to maintain one's own intractable dogma seems to be simply by trivializing others rather than examining the issues.

I learned that in church a long time ago. You'd do good there. Hope to see you at the next Fellowship!

[Warren Stupidity]

80. Your chance of seeing me in church other than for somebody else's funeral

or wedding are identical to the possibility that your god exists, which is to say effectively zero.

[warrant46]

125. LOL

[GeorgeGist]

6. Sorry Al ...

but I don't trust spooks without evidence.

[timdog44]

32. And with evidence

there is no spookism. What you are suggesting is that the government tell everything they are doing. Oops there goes that line of surveillance. I trust Obama and I trust Al Franken.

I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. We should be looking at the little stories tucked away in the corners and back pages of the papers for what is happening of concern that all this is overshadowing.

I have to explain in every one of these posts that I don't like surveillance, especially by corporations and mercenary organizations. I don't like it by our government. But our government is being hacked by other countries, notably China recently, and until our government can make us safe from them spying on us, and hacking into our security systems, I think we have to be proactive in searching how it is happening. It needs to be done by far fewer agencies. Way too many spy agencies.

[carla]

75. Never heard of metadata?

This is a danger to America. Believe it.

[timdog44]

93. To your very blunt question in an attempt at insulting me,

yes I have heard of metadata. You explain to me what kind of metadata you want to talk about. The different kinds and uses are endless, so explain what you really want to talk about and I will answer you. So to say "never heard of metadata?" is like saying to me "never heard of food?" I really don't intend to be nasty, but I can start talking about metadata and be a lot far off from what you are wanting to talk about. So, definition and meaning, please.

[rhett o rick]

7. I would still see what kind of data they are amassing. Just sayin. nm

[timdog44]

33. I'm not sure I would

know what I was looking at. At what point does the deciding stop, unless it is stopped altogether. And when a person like Al Franken says what he does, my level of fear goes down and my level of trust goes up.

[nineteen50]

37. This program is being used to determine

the intent and timing of dissent and protest in order to control and defuse it.

[emulatorloo]

77. What are your credentials that allow you to state this so unequivocally?

Do you work for the NSA or have you recieved Congressional intelligence briefings?

[nineteen50]

113. Lesson learned from watching

government, corporate and power elite co-operation in handling the Occupy movement.

[Occulus]

128. It's so obvious to anyone paying any attention at all that I have to question the motives

of those who dismiss the possibility, yet remain otherwise informed.

For the record, and to be completely clear, I just said exactly what you think I did.

[rucky]

107. I don't see how anyone can take a strong position

one way or another - without knowing this.

[closeupready]

8. Disappointing.

Settling the Israel/Palestinian conflict would ALSO prevent terrorism. In its own way.

So what. Israelis and Palestinians have generally decided that that price is too high.

Some of us do NOT want to live like sniveling cowards, or prisoners - being told by our keepers where we can go, when, what we can take, etc.

[cpwm17]

9. He fell for the B/S propaganda before Bush's unprovoked war against Iraq

so I have little reason to trust his opinion here. In fact, when in doubt in such matters, it is a good idea to support the opposite position of any supporter of that aggressive war.

[tblue]

11. This makes me wary of Al Franken

not more trusting of the NSA.

[avaistheone1]

14. I'm disappointed in Franken.

I feel as you do.

[Plucketeer]

84. I'm with yoiu here

This is a sad development. I had high hopes for Franken. Guess he should have kept his day job.

[timdog44]

36. Not to defend Al Franken,

but the evidence presented to the congress and the US people, especially by that traitorous Collin Powell, convinced a lot of people that we needed to go into Iraq. I think we are being more hesitant to go into anywhere actively now, for that very reason.

[ucrdem]

100. Wasn't he elected in 2008?

So he wasn't in the Senate when the IWR was voted on.

[Bjorn Against]

127. He spoke at the "Let's Iraq and Roll" rally sponsored by right-wing media group Clear Channel

He appeared alongside Lee Greenwood. I wish I could say I was making this up but I am not, he writes about it in chapter 41 of his book "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them". He may not have been in Congress to vote on the issue, but he actually spoke at a right-wing rally to support the war.

[tblue]

10. I'm with Bernie Sanders.

Sorry Al. Nice try. I hope you're right but I can't conceive of how this can continue without flying off the rails.

[Purveyor]

51. +1 eom

[FreakinDJ]

12. and Edger Hoover was a misunderstood Good Guy

Just trying to let his inner child out

[Alhena]

13. Apparently this board's gut reaction to a news story ...

takes precedence over the views of a Senator of impeccable progressive credentials who actually KNOWS what the program involves.

I swear the internet seems like a bunch of little kids sometimes. It seems like so many people were just stumblling over each other, without knowing what the program actually involved, to profess the greatest admiration for what Snowden did.

Why not just let the story develop and then make an informed decision?

Everything has to be black-and-white, with flash judgments, in internet-land. I'm still reserving judgment on this whole thing, but Franken's statement makes me tend to support Obama.

[Kelvin Mace]

18. Ah, no

Franken's credentials in SOME areas are impressive. His credentials on SOPA/PIPPA are straight out of the RIAA/Hollywood lobbyist's talking points.

His naive belief that somehow, the government agencies that have repeatedly abused their power, repeatedly broken the law, and repeatedly lied are now somehow trustworthy, is absolutely demoralizing.

[Psephos]

79. exactly n/t

[treestar]

35. +1

A rare rational post on DU!

[sulphurdunn]

54. The languid, snarky, bow tie syntax

makes me think you must be channeling William F. Buckley. Although, I'm uncertain what Bill would think of all this.

[xtraxritical]

41. Vacuuming up every communication by this contry's citizens is NOT acceptable

and clearly is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. I'm with Bernie Sanders and I think Frankin made a big mistake here and will pay for it. It's a damn shame too.

[sulphurdunn]

46. He is a Senator of

impeccable (fill in the blank) credentials.
He says there is nothing to worry about over (fill in the blank)
Therefore, there is nothing to worry about and you should support (fill in a name) because Franken does.

Do you really believe that? It may be true, but not because of who Al Franken is.

[cheapdate]

53. Amen to that.

Instant reaction to every event. Immediate judgements and conclusions. Mountains of reaction resting on a tiny grain of known facts.

[alarimer]

123. You'r falling for the logical fallacy "argument from authority."

I don't trust elected officials. Period.

Once they're in office, they do what they have to do to protect their own personal gravy train and that's what Franken is doing here.

[Orsino]

133. How do you expect the story to "develop"?

And why are you already sure that the outcome will be benign?

[WRH2]

15. protective custody

[Kelvin Mace]

16. This is called "going native"

It is so sad that Al Franken, once a defender of the Constitution, is now a defender of the Police State.

That someone who was a comedian can stand in public and say "I believe what the NSA/CIA/FBI tells me" is just depressing.

[Alhena]

17. Jeez ....

"It is so sad that Al Franken, once a defender of the Constitution, is now a defender of the Police State."

This statement is so typical of the childish hyperbole that prevails on so many internet political discussion boards. For some people, every time some public official says something they disagree with it's always a betrayal of the constitution or being a lackey of Big Brother or nonsense like that.

Grow up. This isn't a contest to prove to all the cool kids that you're the most liberal guy in the world.

[Kelvin Mace]

24. Hmmm...

Children believe in all sorts of BS that "grownup" tell them. Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the tooth Fairy, etc.

Being grown up means you stop believing this type of stuff. Unfortunately, some adults then decide to promulgate the same lies rather than be honest.

Your statement:

"every time some public official says something they disagree with it's always a betrayal of the constitution or being a lackey of Big Brother or nonsense like that."

is hyperbolic. Please cite evidence that this is true.

I ask the same question I keep asking government apologists:

Why do they believe agencies and people who have an decades long record of lying and lawbreaking? Why is a person who has told so many lies that you've lost count, suddenly a credible, upstanding citizen?

It seems to me that the cognitive dissonance is the result of people not wanting to accept the fact that they voted for a guy who is EXPANDING the policies of George W. Bush. These criticisms of my viewpoints I heard five and six years ago, but they came from Rightwing crowd, telling me that Dickie Cheney and Donnie Rumsfeld knew what was best for America, and I (and people like me) should just shut the fuck up.

[L0oniX]

70. "not wanting to accept the fact that they voted for a guy who is EXPANDING the policies of George W

. Bush"

NAILED IT!

[xtraxritical]

43. How dare you call anyone "childish" your opinion is ipso facto puerile.

purile

[7962]

71. Alright, all of you; dont make me pull this car over!!!!

[xtraxritical]

134. I think your tail lite is out.

[christx30]

138. The NSA knew about that months ago. N/t

[Autumn Colors]

19. Of course he agrees with the program

He knows that all his communications - business and personal - have been collected for the past ... how many years? And all available to be pulled out at any time for the purpose of "finding dirt/blackmail material".

No wonder dems all "cave" -- they've got this threat of past/present/future phone calls, emails, text messages, etc. suddenly becoming headline news .... if they don't go with the program.

[littlewolf]

111. remember Eric Holder would not say if DoJ spied on congress. nt

[Autumn Colors]

132. To me, that would make it a "yes, they did" (nt)

[Occulus]

131. The only antidote is a politician honest enough to be completely shameless.

"Why, yes, that IS a photo of my cock and I did in fact send it to someone I wanted to fuck. The real question is, why do you even care? I'm a politician. If you're using me as a role model, as some sort of moral pillar of American society, the problem is you, and not me, because American politics is a vile, dirty blood sport that has nothing whatever to do with anything like morality."

No politician ever responds or has ever responded to that sort of scandal in this manner. The question is, why not?

[Gregorian]

20. Protecting us whether we need it or want it or not.

It would be like the fire department snooping around my kitchen every morning checking to see if anything is on fire.

No, I'll call when there's a fire.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

21. We have to be careful because this may be MSM spin on words taken out of context.

Sen. Al Franken hasn't said that he's fully looked into all aspects of this or considered all aspects.

There are excerpts in the video in which he is talking, but what's the context of the full conversations leading to what he said.

Do you trust the MSM? I don't.

[unreadierLizard]

22. It's okay

If Obama does it, but bad if Bush does it.

The double standard from these so-called "progressives" is appalling.

[xtraxritical]

44. Truth be told!

[Cha]

89. It's not the same at all.. but, then you knew that.

[yurbud]

23. as Al himself would have said a few years ago, OY!

That's just embarrassing.

[Progressive dog]

25. Thanks Al nt

[Daemonaquila]

26. Screw you, Al.

I wish I still lived in MN and could help vote you out.

[AsahinaKimi]

27. This is disappointing...

I will go with ALAN GRAYSON on this one, sorry AL.

[moonbeam23]

29. That is so sad

i really admired him for his brave fight against the repugs who thought they could steal the election from him...and i even gave him a small pittance...

It's so disappointing to see a once proud progressive "go native" as that other poster put it...

i guess the next email i get from him will go back to them with a piece of what's left of my mind lol...

[SHRED]

31. Al supported Iraq invasion

Now he supports privatized spying.

Tsk tsk

[savalez]

56. Apparently Snowden supported the Iraq invasion too.

[24601]

86. There's no shortage of Democratic Senators & Representatives voting AUMF for Iraq. To say later

that they didn't really mean it rings hollow.

[bvar22]

34. Now, now....don't be getting all up with Al.

He is a US Senator now.
He hobnobs with the 1% everyday and has lunch at the very fanciest places in DC,
travels by Jet,
golfs with America's WINNERS!
He even NOW has Fancy Government Health Care!

He's got a lot to "protect' these days.

I've seen this a hundred times, but on a more local level.
You work your ass off next to a regular guy on the line at a factory.
Drink beer, eat pizza, play ball on the weekend,
THEN, he gets elected to a position with Union Management.

All of a sudden, he's too busy to go bowling with the guys.
The next year, he parlays THAT into a new house in the gated community
and driving fancy Escolades,
gets hair implants and new suits,
shows up at Republican Fund Raisers,
sends his kids to the fancy private schools,
and frowns and looks down at his watch if he sees you on the street.

Sorry, Al.
We hardly knew ya, bud.

[emulatorloo]

78. The guy doesn't do national media AFAIK

Seems to stay pretty Minnesota focused, I think your mischaracterization of him is pretty harsh.

You are basically saying he is corrupt, and that's top grade DU hyperbolic BS.

[AndyA]

39. Sell out. Franken has now become "one of them."

A few are strong enough to resist whatever disease it is they're exposed to once elected to Congress, but most succumb to it over time.

[Locrian]

40. translation....

"I'm fully on board with whatever the NSA wants me to say. (It's not like they have any dirt on me or know about any hookers or drugs I *used* to take, cough, yeah, that's right... that's the ticket)"

[HooptieWagon]

42. IOW..."We have to destroy democracy to save it" nt

[tblue]

50. That's it right there!

Same with freedom. Same with peace. Same with justice. Gotta destroy it to save it.

[pauldp]

45. I think I'm going to puke...

Sure Al, and those NSA whistleblowers are just nervous nellies.
We don't need to know what they are doing or who they are watching, ignorance is strength and so is shopping.

[DCBob]

47. Good for Al.. he will likely lose some friends on the left with this statement.

[Fuddnik]

48. Go pump somebody else up Hans.

Or Franz. Whichever the fuck one you were.

[GoneFishin]

65. LOL. Got it.

It took me a few minutes.

[7962]

72. He was neither; Kevin Nealon and Dana Carvey played them

[GoneFishin]

49. That is sad. Al used to make me laugh my ass off when he used show what a hypocrite Bill O. is,

but I noticed as soon as he got elected it seemed like the pod people got him. I miss progressive Al.

I don't believe him now.

[LovingA2andMI]

52. Minnesota Voters.....

Senator Franken believes your 1st, 4th, 5th, 9th and 14th Amendments rights are not worth the paper they were written on. Maybe he needs a Democratic or INDEPENDENT challenger that believes strongly in these rights for you, during his upcoming re-election.

[nobodyspecial]

83. Yeah, let's primary him

and then ensure a GOP victory for that seat.

[LovingA2andMI]

95. I ASSUME...

You never heard of INDEPENDENT Senator Bernie Sanders or Angus King right? Or is your response a LAME attempt to spin the issue...

[WillyT]

55. Oh Hell Al... Just Continue To Keep Your Head Down, Will Ya ???

THIS... is your big step into the progressive limelight ???

Go back to naming Post Offices.

[dflprincess]

73. He said this on local Sunday morning program so he wasn't really going for the limelight

and he probably thought only a few of us locals might hear this.

As a rule, he's better than our other senator (Klobuchar) but there are times I think about some of the issues he railed about in his books and on his radio show that he's apparently forgotten about since deciding to run for the Senate and I can only sigh about what's happened to him.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

57. He want's to be an accepted insider too much, imho

[dreamnightwind]

99. Exactly

He has the disease that commonly afflicts outsiders that become insiders, the same one our president has. Democrats are more susceptible to it than Republicans, since Democrats always think they have to work harder to establish themselves as supporting whatever intelligence or defense activity is put before them.

Goin' along to get along. Trying too hard to be the adult in the room.

There's no way in hell we know any more than the tip of the iceberg here. Clapper outright lied to Wyden about it (he must have been under oath, too, actionable?) before admitting even this much.

I saw a post in this thread about "anonymous phone data", and others that are clearly assuming that the best framing The Powers That Be can put on Prism is in fact the whole story, when undoubtedly (indubitably) it is not.

For one thing, no phone data is anonymous when they have the call records stored with the 2 phone numbers. It is trivial to query a separate table (or even a separate system) that matches these phone numbers with names, in fact the anonymous phone data statement is laughable.

If the NSA was above-board on Prism, they could have set up this program but only after a public debate. Not only did they do it without any public debate, they actually lied to us about it, and most likely they still are.

They say they don't have the phone call's content stored. Yeah, right. So it is stored somewhere else, and they query that system when they are drilling down to that level. Count on it.

The digital communications are stored with full content, if I'm not mistaken (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Email, Skype, video, tweets, chats, complete browsing and download history, every brick-and-mortar purchase that was not paid for with cash, all GPS location data our phones transmit, I assume that all of this is in there.

So, they have, or are attempting to have, everything anyone does that interacts with the outside world.

It has nothing to do with whether we trust Obama or not. That's completely not the point. The point is, do we trust the worst person who will occupy his position with this? Do we trust the NSA? Who else could use this? We'll never know, because they won't tell us.

It also has nothing to do with whether we as individuals have anything to hide. We might not, or we might not be important enough to matter. But what about the people who do and who are? Businessmen/women, politicians, anyone making important decisions that effect other people's lives, they are all vulnerable to extortion and control by the information in this system. Nobody is clean enough that something couldn't be found. So the owners of this system have way too much power and way too little oversight, 100% unacceptable.

So long Al, it was nice laughing at your funny jokes, SNL, Stuart Smalley, and I liked your radio show too. I even sent you an out of state donation to help you defeat Norm Coleman, but you're one of them now. Congratulations, enjoy the fruits of membership. I'll stick with less "respectable" company like Sanders and Grayson.

[Myrina]

58. Who is the "us" being protected and

Who or what are they being protected from? Because any terra-ist worth his salt isn't using standard phone/email communication anymore.

[forestpath]

59. He must have gotten some nice big contributions from telecoms.

[Brewinblue]

60. Pathetic!

I'm truly losing faith in our country. George Orwell is turning out to have been a lot more prescient than many of us ever thought
possible.

I think I'm going to start drinking again.

[Harmony Blue]

63. Franken you are a loser.

[Swede Atlanta]

64. Fuck off Al!

I contributed to your last campaign. No more money or other support to anyone who does not publicly decry these practices and demand they cease.

[L0oniX]

67. +1

[NorthCarolina]

66. They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,

deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~ Benjamin Franklin

[L0oniX]

69. Go Fuck Your Self ...Al. I don't want or need your brand of fucking protection.

[Major Hogwash]

76. Franken is one hell of a Senator.

He's been really active since he was first elected.

A lot of people don't realize that he is super smart, in fact, he's a genius.

[savalez]

118. I have one of his books.

He is wicked smart.

[Marrah_G]

82. Oh yuck

[Rowdyboy]

85. Whose opinion should I respect more? Senator Al Franken or an anonymous keyboard warrior at DU?

Not much of a decision in my opinion.

[Cha]

90. Senator Franken or

Glenn Greenwald? No contest, imo.

[Rowdyboy]

91. Of the few people left in the senate that I respect, Franken leads the way....

Its really interesting to see how quickly he's gone from DU HERO to DU ZERO for expressing his honest, informed opinion. How DARE he not agree with DU's finest!

[Cha]

92. Yeah, anybody who is in a position to know what's going on

and is a well respected Senator.. is mincemeat if he disputes the rantings of Greenwald. According to the lynch mob that is.

[Rowdyboy]

96. Al Franken is a serious player. Some of the others, not so much....

But I guess we'll see, now won't we?

[Cha]

97. Looking forward to it.

[cali]

106. How about Senator Leahy? Serious player? Far more senior, far more informed than junior Franken.

[freshwest]

103. Thanks Rowdyboy. Lot of fair weather patriots here.

[jessie04]

104. Great post.

one minute they love you, the next minute you're the enemy.

Fickle,Fickle

[savalez]

115. Interesting indeed.

[annm4peace]

87. another MN that is angry about Franken's comment

If fellow citizens don't care that our Government is spying on us, they should at least care of the billions of tax dollars spent on it and that it is private companies that are doing the spying for our government.

I hope people are calling Franken's office and telling him he should support our Constitution instead of spying. and by the way Sen Franken, how much is all this "spying' costing the tax payers ????? Franken's # is 651-221-1016, or in DC 202-224-5641.

Franken was put in by the democratic party machine.. There was a much more progressive candidate Jack Nelson-Palmyer that was running for Senator before Franken jumped in the race. He actually works for peace and justice.

Anyhow.. progressives here in MN don't see Franken as a progressive, he might not be a Blue Dog like Sen Klobuchar but he sure isn't a progressive.

When I heard of what Franken had to say on WCCO my first thought was "Fuck You Senator Franken, Fuck you".

of course progressive have known the increased surveillance of US citizens, it was in all the progressive websites, MN's ret FBI agent Coleen Rowley was talking about it all the time.

for him to even speak out about torture required continues visits and sit in's at his office by peace activists,, 100s' of emails, petitions, etc.

So Please don't call Franken a progressive... he doesn't even come close to Wellstone, but likes to tell people he is like Wellstone.
He isn't.

[annm4peace]

94. Maybe they think

that we'll forget Bradley Manning is on trial.

let us not forget Bradley Manning's Trial. Click on link and click "Like"..so the site gets lots of hits and the military and the powers that be know that we are watching the trial.


http://www.bradleymanning.org/news/trial-report-day-five

Today’s afternoon session revealed more substantive and consequential testimony, so it precedes the morning session here. The defense, via forensic expert David Shaver, established that there was no evidence of a connection between Manning and Jason Katz, and that there is no evidence Manning downloaded a video from the CENTCOM database.

By Nathan Fuller. June 11, 2013.

No connection between Jason Katz and Bradley Manning

The live witnesses – as opposed to read-aloud stipulations – in this afternoon’s session discussed the investigation of Jason Katz’s computer, where a Farah video was found that the government believed to be connected to Bradley Manning. The Farah incident was a horrifying massacre on May 4, 2009, in Afghanistan, in which a U.S. airstrike killed scores of innocent Afghan women and children. Katz was fired from the Department of Energy for having password-evading programs.

The video, a version distinct from the one found on Bradley’s computer but matching the one hosted on the U.S. Central Command’s (CENTCOM) website, was encrypted, and investigators found decryption software on Katz’s computer. Adrian Lamo learned about Katz’s possession of the video and also turned him into the authorities.

The government wanted to connect Katz and Manning, but today forensic expert David Shaver confirmed that he found no connection whatsoever – no email, chats, or any other connection – between the two.

No proof that Manning downloaded Farah video from CENTCOM

[DeSwiss]

98. Simia Deditionem :-| n/t

[cali]

101. Pat Leahy, far senior and far more informed, disagrees with the very junior Senator Franken.

[bowens43]

102. fuck you franken , you're either naive or complicite

but thank you for admitting that the government is doing this to us. the motivation to do this is irrelevant. it's clear violation of the 4th amendment.

[cstanleytech]

112. There is a third option.

That option is that he might just be more informed on a classified program than you seeing as he is a senator, yes I know its a shocking thought but it is what is.
As for the program there should be more oversight of the program because it does have the potential to be abused.

[savalez]

116. How dare you!

Just kidding.

[Enthusiast]

108. I'm an Al Franken supporter.

But he isn't infallible. On this issue he is wrong. I do not expect him to be perfect.

[Thor_MN]

109. Programs COULD be set up such that data is collected but not used unless there is a warrant.

However, from the time that the first employee was hired, employee theft has been an issue. If it's a small company that makes anvils, it's easy to see an employee who is attempt to sneak one out of the building. If it's a huge corporation that makes thousands of products, it becomes difficult to catch a thief. If the product is digitized information, it becomes almost impossible to detect theft by the company, much less the employee.

If you give a private firm the ability to collect data on everyone (just for protecting the people), that data will be used at some point to generate money. The initial sales might not even harm anyone (targeted advertising, resource/bandwidth allocation, etc.) But sooner or later, use of that data is going to start harming people while enriching the assholes who stole it.

[midnight]

110. Al also supports cut to food stamps....

[markiv]

114. Franken voted against protections for American workers in the immigration bill, too

and i got flamed for pointing that out because 'no, no, he's a GOOD guy!'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022846502

[grantcart]

117. Interesting. I would like to hear Al comment on the cost and likely efficacy of the program.

[Octafish]

120. 'Us' if defined as holders of Swiss bank accounts.

...and the Caymans, of course.

[olddots]

121. Al knows something we don't know

and we know something he doesn't know .

remember Air America and his role in it ?

[alarimer]

122. Et Tu, Franken?

You are completely fucking wrong.

That's it. I'm not voting for any Democratic enablers of this shit ever again.

The entire Democratic Party (Grayson and a few others excepted) can go straight to hell.

I'm DONE. This is unconstitutional bullshit and I'm tired of the apologists.

[Hotler]

124. Really Al? really! I guess the next thing out of your pie hole will be....

Wall St. did nothing wrong and Chris Christy is a good man.
I have no hope. I see no future.

[Bjorn Against]

126. Franken also supported the Iraq War

The guy has been horribly wrong on what is needed to "keep us safe" before, he is wrong again.

[savalez]

129. Snowden also supported the Iraq War.

Just saying.

[Bjorn Against]

130. Snowden is not making laws, his personal views are totally irrelevant

Snowden's beliefs are completely irrelevent, what is relevant is the information he provided. If he decides to run for elected office then his views on the Iraq War will become relevant, but until that happens the story is about the information he leaked not his personal opinions.

[savalez]

135. That sounds an awful lot

like how Bush treated Curveball. I prefer to wait and see how this whole thing fleshes out.

[RILib]

136. Is this the Onion?

[Fire Walk With Me]

137. He's a comedian! This is a comedy sketch! Where's the punchline?

I'm waiting