Ammunition shortage hits Minn. police departments

[question everything]

Source: KARE11

BUFFALO, Minn. - Chief Mitch Weinzetl keeps his department's ammunition under lock and key. With a national shortage, ammo is a precious commodity. "We had gotten to a point where if we didn't get some soon we couldn't do our training," says Chief Weinzetl with the Buffalo Police Department. "It was a bit of a panic."

Realizing the supply is tight, Weinzetl now "stockpiles" ammunition in order to a have enough for the next year. He also submits an order months in advance knowing it takes time to receive their shipment.

(snip)

With high costs and wait times of up to a year, Buffalo P.D. has found better luck buying bullets at Wal-Mart and Cabela's. In Proctor, Minnesota, Chief Walt Wobig found his department's ammunition supply low enough to ask the citizens in his city to help. And they did. At least one civilian donated 15 hundred bullets.

(snip)

Military needs and the fear of strict gun legislations play a role in the shortage. It means police officials must strategize and think ahead in order to properly train their personnel.



Read more: http://www.kare11.com/news/article/1026106/396/Ammunition-shortage-hits-Minn-police-departments--

[Ash_F]

1. Clearly a sign of failed economic policies

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=484677

[sakabatou]

2. Mass hysteria from the right making panics on guns & bullets

[socialsecurityisAAA]

6. Paranoid Domestic Gov agencies buy huge ammounts of Ammo, Paranoid people buy tons of Ammo.

That's the society that we voted for!

[LiberalFighter]

25. Those paranoid domestic govt agencies are buying just like they did in the past

And for legitimate reasons.

[Populist_Prole]

7. Bingo

I keep getting to arguments with several gun nuts that just can't/won't accept the fact that the ammunition "shortage" is caused by their own paranoia. I've tried to reason with them but they're absolutely convinced every time they try to buy any, it may be the last. It's a shame because it's really straining existing friendships of mine since they used to be socially conservative democrats but have become republican voters over the gun issue alone. They care about nothing else.

[tofuandbeer]

15. It baffles the brain: the love of guns.

[TM99]

16. It is tulip mania all over again.

Humans are utterly predictable.

[quakerboy]

17. I am really really curious

I would be very interested to see the manufacturers sales and distribution info. Even with the paranoia rampant, I have a hard time believing that there is a legitimate shortage. Or that the manufacturers couldn't ramp up production, if they wanted to.

My supposition is that they like selling out, and are restricting the supply just enough to keep the hysteria in effect. But maybe Im wrong.

And maybe there is something else going on, domestic or international.

[wercal]

28. I believe they are at full production

The panic has caused a seemingly unstoppable sequence of events.

Step 1 - Ammo arrives at Wal-Mart
Step 2 - Wall mart clerk calls his relatives, friends, whoever, so they can go in and buy their 3 box limit
Step 3 - All these relatives, friends, whoever immediatley list the ammo at triple price on some ammo trading website.

There really isn't a shortage at all. You can go to these websites (gunbroker for example) and see tens of thousands of .22lr rounds for sale/auction. This is all day, every day. There's lots of supply...its just that suddenly people are willing to pay triple the normal price and created a secondary market.

[Bay Boy]

29. I think they took their cue from the DeBeers diamond syndicate...

...just trickle out enough supply to keep the price high.

[hack89]

32. The ammunition supply is not very flexible

it is not easy to ramp up production primarily because the makers of sub-components like primers, cases and gun powder are usually small companies and may not have the capability or desire to ramp up production.

The present "shortages" are due purely to increased demand - ie panic buying.

[quakerboy]

36. Possible

I have a hard time believing it though. What do these companies do when there is a sudden outbreak of war and someones military puts in a big order?

I suspect the desire has more to do with it than the ability.

I am also curious what happens when it all wraps up. There are only so many back bedrooms and sheds and garages, what happens when they are all full to the eves with bricks of ammo, and everyone has more than they can justify to their wives? Gun owners are still shooting some, but what I am hearing is that even out at the range people are being much more sparing with their shooting. Do the ammo companies go out of business, as no one needs/has room to buy any more for a few years?

[hack89]

37. The system is maxxed out right now precisely because we are fighting a war.

it has absorbed most if not all of the excess capacity.

People are not hoarding massive amounts of ammo. Instead of keeping a couple of weeks supply on hand, they have a couple of months supply. That is enough to strain the system. Once everything is back to normal, it won't take long for that excess ammo to be shot off.

[quakerboy]

41. You apparently dont know the people I know

I assure you there are people hoarding massive amounts of ammo. Some who have always done so, but others who have been caught up in the spirit of things and are new to it.

[hack89]

42. And you don't know the shooters I know.

In any case, hopefully things will get back to normal pretty soon.

[NickB79]

46. Gotta agree with quakerboy here

Ammo prices for military cartridges was declining rapidly last year as the wars wound down. Last summer I was able to stock up on 5.56mm Federal for $299/case, which was half the price it was at the height of the Iraq War.

If the war effort was still the driving factor in ammo prices, the price shouldn't be spiking now and availability falling.

I know plenty of guys who bought CASES of ammo after Sandy Hook. This is hoarding.

[hack89]

47. I agree that it is hoarding

the question was why the manufacturers didn't expand production. I think there is no excess production capability.

[Tippy]

50. I agree with what you say

I can say that we have a gun store very close to where We drive by several tines a day...Right after Sandy Hook you couldn't find a parking place...that has continued to this day....Ever since the business opened they had customers but not like now..They don't have slow days any more, thats for sure...

[PatrynXX]

12. which is mostly from that 1.6 billion bullet buy they claim the govt never does

which caused my dad to loose his brain and spend $1000 on the same gun used in Newtown (Sig Saur - sp 226) and has been spending a good $100 or more a week on ammo. 1-6 pounds a week think this ones ammo2go.com

why am I listing the website.? so MN cops can go buy them out quick before the hoarders do. which is an illness like any other hoarding illness is..

[LiberalFighter]

26. Maybe those ammo manufacturers are refusing to sell to law enforcement?

Maybe doing it selectively?

[rdharma]

3. Oh, no, Andy! Barney only has one round!

Please? This crap again? Fire Chiefs' Mitch and Walt!

Begging ammo from the citizens? Not a good idea for a PD to be "beholden" to certain citizens.

[wtmusic]

11. LOL

[AnotherMcIntosh]

4. This must be happening across the country.

[rdharma]

5. In low budget... small departments..... with piss poor management. eom

[socialsecurityisAAA]

8. Management is abhorable.

Higher up desk bums in law enforcement/justice getting paid 100,000 plus salaries to send kids to jail for profit, cops getting paid 60,000 plus to arrest people who are recording them with phone cameras.
Most offenses are non-violent. Most people in prison don't belong there, huge loss of income and wealth for the families of the incarcerated leading to economic inequity and depravity.
We have a justice system that is overstaffed, over funded yet no money is left for actual crime prevention/rehabilitation.

We voted for this crap!

[PatrynXX]

13. well in theory we did

course we voted for a Democrat led House yet we have Republicans in there.... Rigged elections suck.

[SnowCritter]

31. Pretty broad brush you're painting with

Let's take a look at some information as it relates to the original post:

1) Buffalo, MN, has a population just shy of 16,000. It's very unlikely that any public servant working for the City of Buffalo is pulling down $100,000.
2) It is also unlikely that the majority of peace officers are pulling down $60,000. I'd bet it's closer to $40,000, probably less. There might be a couple getting $60,000. The average for police officers in St. Cloud (population close to 70,000) is around $26,000.
3) There are no "for-profit" prisons in Minnesota (at least none that I'm aware of. Feel free to list some if you know of any). "For-profit" prisons are abhorrent.
4) Most offenses are non-violent? Can you provide proof of that? (Full disclosure: I work for a Sheriff's Office as a Network & Systems Administrator - the Jail is right down the hall).
5) Most people in prison don't belong there? Once again, can you provide any data to support your position? I can pretty much guarantee that the folks in our lock-up deserve to be there.
6) Justice system overstaffed? Again, do you have any data to support this claim?
7) Over-funded? Same question - got any data? I can only speak to what I see and experience around here, but the reality here is that the general public wants law enforcement to have the tools required to provide good service, but nobody wants to pay for it. Raise taxes, anyone?

[question everything]

34. Nice analysis. Thank you (nt)

[Comrade Grumpy]

48. Minnesota prison population

http://www.doc.state.mn.us/aboutdoc/stats/documents/notablestatistics.pdf

It looks like roughly 40% of Minnesota prisoners are doing time for non-violent offenses, including just under 20% doing time for drug offenses. Among women prisoners, the largest number (33%) are doing time for drug offenses.

Not a majority, but a rather large minority of Minnesota prisoners are doing time for non-violent offenses. And Minnesota pays an average of $85 per prisoner per day to keep them there.

As for whether people "deserve" to be in prison--that is probably unquantifiable. But I could say off the top of my head that if you have any drug offenders in your jail, they don't deserve to be there (absent other offenses or harm to others).

[Kolesar]

22. I doubt it...eom

[awoke_in_2003]

9. Well, we have to stockpile...

because Obama is going to take our guns, and what not

[Crunchy Frog]

10. But all of those bullets are going to well regulated militias

so I don't understand what the concern is.

[24601]

40. Heller determined that it's an individual right and militia nexus is not

required.

[glinda]

14. Hear Repub talking point about ammo shortage (Gov. control). Bet they are buying it all up in

order to justify their "lie".

[delrem]

18. OK, a person has to laugh. And I do!

[Submariner]

19. Thanks Obama

hoarding ammo at Camp David for his skeeting weekends probably. Don't worry. Jim "I'm a Dork" Inhofe is on this.

[question everything]

35. At least he is not shooting a close friend in the face

yet..

[villager]

20. How will the cops gun down innocent people now!?

[Kolesar]

21. weak.... eom

[Randomthought]

23. I thought the same thing

and is anyone wants to call me weak come live in Minneapolis where police shootings are the norm.

[Bay Boy]

30. define 'the norm'

Or maybe I should say I'm glad my name isn't Norm.

[Randomthought]

33. social norm

as in MPD believes shooting people is the socially acceptable thing to do

[mojowork_n]

24. In Germany last year, in the whole country, police fired exactly 85 bullets...

...against human targets. In action, in anger, whatever you want to call it.

"49 warning shots, 36 shots on suspects. 15 persons were injured, 6 were killed."

Of course many more must have been fired in training and practice, but it's
a number worth highlighting.

In many parts of *this* country, police department training is less about
public service to the community and more about turning cops into a military
occupation force. Anti-insurgency tactics used in foreign countries are being
taught to cops.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022803632?fb_action_ids=10201076587545815&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/05/german-police-used-only-85-bullets-against-people-2011/52162/

http://www.businessinsider.com/police-bring-iraq-counter-insurgency-strategy-to-us-city-2013-5

[redwitch]

27. At least they have enough toilet paper.

[secondvariety]

38. This is messed up

in many ways.

[SwankyXomb]

39. It's all part of my evil master plan

to destabilize the police state by denying them their precious, precious ammunition.

[Psephos]

43. Maybe they can borrow some from DHS' multi-billion-round stockpile.

They have enough hollow-point (i.e., flesh-tearing) bullets to plug each US citizen six times.

[Mr. X]

44. No suprise...

Here's how it works.

1. Claim government is out to get your guns and ammo
2. People flood to buy guns and ammo
3. Ammo becomes scarce
4. Claim government is behind ammo shortage, recommend that people buy as much as they can before the big bad government owns all the bullets
5. People flood out and buy more ammo
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5.

[daleo]

45. If people praised the Lord more

The Lord would pass more ammunition. This is fundamentally a spiritual problem.

[ileus]

49. One lousy box of 45ACP on the shelf last night.

I'm 20 bucks poorer, but 50 fmj's richer.


These puppies will be going down the pipe shortly.

[Hugabear]

51. We need a per-bullet tax on all ammo

Make ammo more expensive. Would help take care of a few problems.