Crash of 747 caught on dashcam in Afghanistan (video)

[SpartanDem]

Source: LA Observed

A National Air Cargo 747 flying for the US Mobility Command stalled and crashed soon after taking off Monday from Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan. Seven crew members died in the crash, which was caught on video.

Family members mourn 6 from Michigan killed in plane crash in Afghanistan

Brad Hasler was married in a small ceremony about two weeks ago.

But his life came to a tragic end Monday when he and six other civilians, all but one of them from Michigan, were killed when a cargo plane crashed after taking off from Bagram Air Field in Afghanistan.

“He was just a great fun guy,” said neighbor and friend Krista Oetjens, 38. “He loved life. There was never a dull moment with him. I just can’t believe this happened. I’m in shock.”

http://www.freep.com/article/20130430/NEWS06/304300124/plane-crash-Afghanistan-national-airlines-Brad-Hasler-Jamie-Brokaw



Read more: http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2013/04/crash_of_747_caught_on_da.phpsource

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those people on the ground were lucky to say the least

[darkangel218]

1. Omg...

I wish I hadn't watched this video it will probably be pulled off youtube, its too graphic imo

[mn9driver]

2. Cargo shifted.

This has happened before. I recall a cargo aircraft out of Miami a few years ago that crashed in similar fashion when the cargo shifted aft and caused the nose to pitch up uncontrollably on takeoff.

Condolences to the families of the crew.

[Warpy]

5. That would explain it

The plane just stalled and dropped out of the sky.

People who packed the cargo are going to have a lot of explaining to do.

[BlueStreak]

9. Not likely (regarding accoutability)

One of the great benefits to the Pentagon in outsourcing so much of the military activity to private contractors is that it obscures the accountability. No doubt that is one of the reasons that business model has become so popular. That, and the opportunity for kickbacks and other "consideration."

here's a statement from the company:
http://www.nationalaircargo.com/default.aspx

And that is probably the last we'll hear of it.

[defacto7]

14. Back when I was flying small aircraft,

I was taught that the buck stops with the pilot. He/She is the one who has to approve or determine the structure and load; ultimately, the pilot decides. I would imagine there are a lot of things taken for granted when flying with a crew with diversified responsibilities but I doubt I would ever take for granted the load balance and rigging done by any non-flying personnel.

[Ash_F]

34. Commercial pilots have been completely dis-empowered over the years

A loss of authority and decision making ability came bundled together with slashed pay and benefits. They are treated as peons. Air-Captains they they are not.

[Dreamer Tatum]

40. So...it's definitely cargo shift, and definitely because of outsourcing.

Wow. Two posts on DU clear up everything for everyone.

[BlueStreak]

42. Nobody said that. Please stop misrepresenting the posts here.

Everyone who has talked about cargo shift, including those who clearly have some first-hand expertise on the subject identified their comments as informed speculation.

And nobody ever said the crash was a result of outsourcing. I said that outsourcing obscures accountability, which is a different point altogether. Do you understand the difference or do I need to explain it?

[ManiacJoe]

11. Rumor has it that the loadmaster was on board.

[Gore1FL]

13. That makes sense

The pitch seemed really high.

[freshwest]

16. Thanks, I was just going to ask what changed the angle of ascent - I'm amazed anyone survived.

Wouldn't cargo be tied down to prevent it or was it pilot error?

I'm not minimizing how awful this is, just trying to figure out with the many thousands of planes that take off that this happened.

Did it look to you as if the pilot had gotten control again, just not fast enough to try to ascend again to prevent the crash?

This had to have been terrifying for everyone in the plane. And I'm still amazed anyone could survive that inferno.

Their poor families.

[mn9driver]

22. Properly securing cargo is hugely important.

This plane was carrying vehicles and other heavy items. If something broke loose on takeoff it could cause the center of gravity of the aircraft to shift too far to the rear for the elevators to be able to control it. It's possible that the elevator itself malfunctioned, but heavy cargo breaking loose is much more likely. This was a 747-400 model and it had a modern flight data recorder which is probably still readable. If so, investigators will know for sure what happened in a matter of days.

Since this was in Afghanistan, sabotage is a real possibility. A deliberately weakened link on a few of the tie down chains could give the appearance of a properly secured load. The investigators will be able to determine that as well. Just from the video it can be seen that the ailerons and rudder were functioning and that the engines were audibly running at high power. Also, the landing gear was still extended, indicating that the problem was big, the crew was fully occupied with it, and it happened right at liftoff.

A couple of the crew were retired airline pilots. Friends of friends. Very sad.

[freshwest]

26. Sorry to hear that... Sabotage was a thought I had too, unfortunately. Either mechanical with tying

down, or something more like a EMF (though improbable), some kind of jamming or hacking. IDK what the capabilities of those who would deliberately bring the plane down are. At any rate, very bad and still, it looked as if the pilot did a good job, just overcome by the accident.

[TheMadMonk]

30. The fact that the the pilot would have wanted to climb out of range...

...of any possible rocket attack ASAP, probably didn't help.

Beyond that, we could speculate that an inexperienced loadmaster might not have not made allowances for such a steep ascent; or perhaps that a sabatoeur might have damages a couple of tiedowns counting on such an ascent.

Or it might just be a stupid tragic accident.

[defacto7]

45. Those jets are getting old.

Stress fractures are common. It wouldn't surprise me if supports for the ties broke under stress. Sabotage is possible but I think it's much more probable that it was breakage of fuselage supports, improper load calculation and balance or bad tie off.

[TheMadMonk]

46. Which is why I included ignorance and accident as other posibilities. /nt

[santamargarita]

38. Yep, we lost a DC8 that way. I don't know what else

would make stall like that.

[Blue_Tires]

39. The Fine Air cargo was also improperly loaded:

http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/deadlyexpress/partone/fineair.html

http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/1998/AAR9802.pdf

EDIT; i'm wrong -- it did shift

[arcane1]

3. It's rather amazing that the driver didn't utter a sound

Are explosions and death now so common there?

[freshwest]

18. It seemed like he took a long sigh near the end before speeding up to go and help.

Possibly in a state of disbelief.

[arcane1]

20. The best part: the driver pulled over, and didn't keep going.

Restoring my faith in humanity

[freshwest]

21. I consider that to be SOP for a human being. Helping, not driving by.

[Tab]

32. Yeah, as opposed to that truck that drove right through it

and kept on going when they obviously knew.

[freshwest]

41. That focus will make come to you. The poster I replied to was talking about the video maker. Bye.

[Blue_Tires]

43. I'm thinking that the driver is a contractor or airfield security or something

sadly, in that situation there's not much anyone can do to help other than secure the perimeter and wait for the firefighters....

[freshwest]

44. Agreed. I don't think we need to nitpick at people at the site of sudden tragedy.

[Blue_Tires]

36. the driver didn't say anything here, either

[Politicub]

4. I stopped watching a couple of seconds after hitting play

I'm nervous enough about flying as is, and I figured I don't need the video of the crash seared into my brain.

It sounds too horrific to watch.

[another_liberal]

6. Awful thing to see, even in a little video window.

It looks like they lost power for some reason. She just stalled in the initial takeoff climb and fell like a stone.

[freshwest]

17. I'm hoping it wasn't some kind of computer malfunction. Someone says the cargo shifted, though.

[Jenoch]

7. Wow. That must have been a serious

mechanical flaw. I have never heard of a 747 stalling on takeoff. Something happened to reduce the thrust.

[neverforget]

8. I'd think it was the cargo shifting on takeoff causing the weight and balance to shift to the rear

of the aircraft.

[Capt.Rocky300]

10. You can still stall with all engines producing full power.

It's a matter of aerodynamics, not power that causes the wing to stall. This could have been a cargo shift or a flight control issue.

[Jenoch]

15. Thanks.

I had the window open for a while before I wrote that post. The cargo shifting sounds plausible.

I have never before heard of a 747 'falling out of the sky'.

[BlueStreak]

19. It seemed to roll to the left

before the nose came up, although that might just be an illusion from the angle of the shot.

Perhaps that was a planned roll to the left and that precipitated a shift in the load. It appeared the plane was under control until that roll to the left. That seems very quick for a load to shift radically. But again, the angle might be really deceptive. It probably was already stalling before the plane came into that video frame.

One thing that seems fairly certain is that none of the engines flamed out. It may be my imagination, bit it appears right at the 7 second mark that there is a puff of dark exhaust off both wings. I wonder what could cause that. Perhaps the pilot went to 100% throttle, or maybe the stall caused the engines to lose their air supply.

[Capt.Rocky300]

23. It is early and this is all just speculating...

but it looked like they were in trouble from the beginning when they appeared on the video. The maximum angle allowed between the ground and the pitch of the aircraft is 20 degrees as stated in the limitations section of the flight manual. They clearly were in excess of that. Poorly or unsecured cargo can shift aft with the application of takeoff thrust and exacerbated by the rotation motion of liftoff. Sometimes you can hear it happening or even experience an uncommanded pitch up of the aircraft's nose and abort the takeoff if it happens early enough. But once you get to the point of it being time to lift off and it happens, you may or may not have enough elevator authority to counteract the situation. This poor guys didn't. Thankfully, I was in the first situation and am still here. Hard to watch.

[BlueStreak]

25. Do you see the smoke I mentioned at about the 7 second mark?

It may be my imagination or a cloud. At some point when the aircraft loses speed, it seems like the jets will not function properly. Could that account for a burst of smoke?

[Capt.Rocky300]

27. It could be....

the video quality isn't good enough to be sure.

[AngryAmish]

33. My uninformed speculation is the pilot went full throttle and that caused smoke

Jets used to smoke on takeoff before pollution control became a big thing. I am guessing that going full bore may cause some smoke too...or could it be that it was full throttle and the stall prevented enough air getting in causing smoke?

I really don't know - this is way outside my field.

[mn9driver]

24. The roll was the result of deep aerodynamic stall

In a deep stall, the turbulent wash from the wings blankets the tail and the airplane begins to yaw. Because of the sweep of the wings, the yaw causes the aircraft to roll. As the nose falls due to loss of lift on the wings, the rudder regains effectiveness and the pilot uses it to level the wings, but there is no way to recover at such a low altitude.

[TheMadMonk]

31. Vehicles have wheels. Once one begins moving on a slope like that...

...it ain't stopping.

[SoapBox]

12. Sickening...

I've worked "aviation" for almost 30 years...I've never seen such a vivid thing.

...I feel sick to my stomach.

[Rowdyboy]

28. A horrifying piece of video

[WheelWalker]

29. That, my friends, defines what we knew as "a bummer".

[OneGrassRoot]

35. The loved ones of those on the plane...

I cannot imagine the absolute horror of watching, imagining the terror your loved one was enduring those last few minutes and seeing the event so clearly this way.

[Blue_Tires]

37. more in-depth analysis here:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5750623/1/#190

[Bertha Venation]

47. I have a recurring nightmare

of watching a plane crash on the other side of the trees in my backyard. This looks just about like it. This is more horrifying than my nightmare. (I'll probably have that nightmare tonight.)

My dad was killed when his ultralight crashed in 2008. He was flying over a hilly area. The speculation* was that he came over a rise and didn't realize how low to the ground he was. He went into the side of a hill.

* Speculation because of the ground condition. In that hilly area it had been raining for days. It was too muddy for the authorities to get to it. It sat for a month, during which time it was raided and stripped of everything but the panels and the seats.