Phone Calls Discussing Jihad Prompted Russian Warning on Tsarnaev

[alp227]

Source: NYT

The Russian warning to the United States government in 2011 about Tamerlan Tsarnaev, one of two brothers accused in the Boston Marathon bombing on April 15, was based on two intercepted telephone calls discussing jihad, both involving his mother, a law enforcement official said on Saturday.

The Russian authorities informed the F.B.I. in March 2011 that Mr. Tsarnaev, an ethnic Chechen who had lived in the United States for about a decade, had changed drastically, had adopted extremist views and planned to travel to Russia to meet with underground groups. The F.B.I. sent agents to interview Mr. Tsarnaev and his parents and found no evidence of any crime, but the Russians re-sent the same information to the C.I.A. in September 2011.

Despite repeated requests for additional information about what was behind the warning, Russian officials never explained the basis for their concern until after the Boston bombing, which killed three people and wounded more than 260. Only in recent days did the Russian authorities say that the intercepted phone calls had prompted their messages to the United States government, said the official, who would speak about the continuing investigation only on condition of anonymity.

The intercepted calls were first reported by The Associated Press on Saturday. Both calls involved Zubeidat Tsarnaeva, the mother of Tamerlan and his younger brother, Dzhokhar. The authorities believe that the brothers set off two homemade bombs at the marathon’s finish line. Tamerlan, 26, died after being shot by the police and run over with a vehicle driven by his fleeing brother; Dzhokhar, 19, was shot but is recovering in a prison hospital.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/us/jihad-discussions-led-to-warning-on-tamerlan-tsarnaev.html

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See also the Guardian "Tamerlan Tsarnaev and radical Islam: friends and neighbours seek answers"

[BREMPRO]

1. mommy sounds like a co-conspirator of the bad seed... shoplifting to violent jihad..

more involved in converting and influencing Tamerlan than previously known.. she probably raved to him about the injustice of not being able to have all those nice things she shoplifted n the"man" the police that arrested her... very interesting revelation today that his wife was ALSO arrested for shoplifting.. n may have tipped her husband off that the police were looking for him..

[Sunlei]

2. I don't understand why the FBI dropped the ball on this information about the recorded calls.

This is the job of the FBI and Homeland security to use information they are given. Not ignore it.
Was the FBI stinging this family for 3 or 4 years to try to gain intelligence? rather than take direct action?

[bhikkhu]

3. If you read the article, its because they weren't given the information

the russians didn't give any specifics, apparently, in spite of requests for specifics. I imagine they wouldn't give specifics because whatever kind of surveillance they used may have been illegal, or may have been done here in the US.

In any case, lacking anything concrete and without information, there's certainly a limit to how far the FBI can go with people who've broken no laws.

[Sunlei]

5. so the FBI gives up after one try for the information? They should have tried harder, ask again

This is FBI and Homeland securities' jobs. They cost America billions of dollars, maybe trillions. They should not request once, and then "forget" about important security tips from Russia.

Looks like with this issue of asking exactly what it was the russians were "concerned about" was ignored.

[BREMPRO]

9. i suspect it was because it was a threat posed to russia, not toward USA,

so maybe the agents concluded, nothing illegal here.concluded it's their problem not ours.and source of concern was not revealed after further inquiry (wiretapped phone calls discussing jihad- which by itself may not have been enough to warrant surveillance) so nothing more they could do....put them on the list...check.. done. limited resources for follow up. we simply can't protect all the people all the time- impossible in a free society with free speech and individual rights..there are 700,000 people on the TIDES list acording to the article.. can we closely monitor all of them? not an excuse.. hopefully a lesson for the future..

[former9thward]

25. If the threat was to Russia why did they let him back in the country?

The older brother went back last year for 6 months. Russia didn't have to let him back in.

[Sunlei]

31. even if he didn't take the trips to russia.I don't think trip matters much.He's a homegrown-USA

mass murderer.

[former9thward]

34. No he wasn't.

He was 16 when the family came to the U.S. Almost an adult.

[Sunlei]

35. What I meant was the way he over 4 years, started twisting his religion towards murdering people.

Happened in the USA.

[dkf]

36. The Russians realized Tamerlan was becoming radicalized but they discussed Jihad in Palestine.

That suggestion was shut down by Tamerlan who said he didn't speak the language.

So at that point no target was specifically at risk but you have a potential jihadi thinking about dying for Islam and traveling in Russia and the US.

[elleng]

13. No.

'The F.B.I. sent agents to interview Mr. Tsarnaev and his parents and found no evidence of any crime, but the Russians re-sent the same information to the C.I.A. in September 2011.

Despite repeated requests for additional information about what was behind the warning, Russian officials never explained the basis for their concern until after the Boston bombing, which killed three people and wounded more than 260. Only in recent days did the Russian authorities say that the intercepted phone calls had prompted their messages to the United States government, said the official, who would speak about the continuing investigation only on condition of anonymity.'

[bhikkhu]

21. Geez- read the OP - it says "repeated requests"

"Despite repeated requests for additional information"...how good do you think you would have done their job if you can't find one bit of information in a printed article. Leaping past the evidence to arrive at private conclusions is not a valued job skill.

[Sunlei]

22. repetely the FBI dropped the bigger ball! then.

[MADem]

10. The RUSSIANS were tapping momma's phone....in RUSSIA. They do whatever they want. nt

[YOHABLO]

4. All the money we pay for security, and the FBI and CIA drop the ball. Go Figure.

They couldn't even stop 9/ll from happening when they had the same sort of intelligence. Why must we have Federal Agencies that are suppose to protect us, not protecting us? And what really gets me is the administration backs them up as doing all they could. HA! Heads should roll and people should be fired. But then this is the U.S.A .. great job guys!

[Sunlei]

6. agree, we pay them so much federal funds. I think these agencies may have the wrong focus...

to much time going after honest Americans, like protesters.

They can't even find the time to call back the Russians about a critical security tip.

[tofuandbeer]

12. +1

[marybourg]

7. Because "we're" not prescient or geniuses,

nor do "we" have unlimited powers to stop crimes before they're committed. And if you don't know all that by yourself, I suggest you pay more attention in class starting Monday.

[Sunlei]

11. but they didn't know the tip was a 'bad' phone call because the FBI didn't ask the russians a second

time what the TIP was.

[SemperEadem]

15. what about

Despite repeated requests for additional information about what was behind the warning, Russian officials never explained the basis for their concern until after the Boston bombing,

are you not getting, even though this is the third time it has been brought to your limited attention?

[timdog44]

20. It seems that

people are keen to put blame where it does not belong. The piddling little bits of info from Russia are pathetic. They were not really trying to help us, they were trying to help themselves, worrying more about a problem in Russia than here.

Also these two were on the TIDE list that our government has. It contains 745,000 names. I suppose we are to keep close tabs on all these people. If we did, it would at least take care of a big portion of our unemployment.

[Sunlei]

23. 745,000 names, how many traveled to homeland for months? how many in age 20-35? how many

female?, how many dedicated religious? how many had TIP from Russia- how fast a list can be sorted with a computer?

[timdog44]

27. Actually that question should be directed to yourself.

You seem to be determined to blame the adminstration for Boston. My guess is you have no idea who was or was not investigated, or who went to Russia or not.

My homeland is Ireland and Germany. If I went back there, would I be under scrutiny as an IRA member or a Nazi. I think if you have some concrete information then present it. If all you have is an opinion - I will respect that. My opinion is you are incorrect.

[Sunlei]

28. If you were on visa and visited with known IRA, I bet you would get on a FBI tip list too. :)

Nazi not so much, America has to put up with the kkk and 'whites are supreme' gangs, except they did place that one nazi who went overseas on the no fly list, and they jailed him too. So he hasn't come back to the USA yet.

My point is 800k names is not to many names to sort for agencies that get paid billions in our federal funds to do that security job.

[timdog44]

30. You touch on the

crux of the matter. All the money we throw at intelligence agencies who don't cooperate with each other or cross reference each others information. Although I would say 800,000 names is quite a few to keep dossiers on, even in this computer age.

I am a third generation Irish person and my Mom remembers grandfather singing all the IRA songs and his sympathies leaned that way. Actually I am related distantly to Michael Collins. Probably shouldn't say that. May get myself on list, if not already.

[SemperEadem]

24. As they should

Russia cannot be blamed for worrying about Russian problems instead of American problems. Our country does it all the time, especially in other troubled countries which do not have oil.

Your second point well illustrates the weakness of the right's grievance---it costs money to hire people to keep tabs on 3/4 of a million people, yet they want smaller government. Well, this is what smaller government does: things slip through the cracks because there aren't enough eyes employed. Now if any of them wishes to step up and work for free, I wish them luck explaining it to the electric company when they want their money...

[timdog44]

29. I do not blame Russia for concern about themselves. My opinion is they had two motives. One

to look at their own interior problem. Two, to stir up trouble over here.

And you are correct about the weakness of the right's grievances. If they believe we need to surveil 3/4 million people then cough up the money. They seem to have all the answers and none of the money. Not even for their own ill conceived notions.

I think some of this goes to the gun issue. There was a number floated that of the people on the no fly list, over 250 were able to buy guns!!!! Unbelievable.

I don't know what the answer to the problem of possible terrorists is, if in fact there is one. With all the "spy" agencies that we finance, it seems incredible that they do not coordinate and have interfacing computer systems. I think the possibility of terror acts is part aand parcel of our policies overseas. Although we have enough problems with our own people terrorizing our population.

[treestar]

33. True, and we still don't know what the jihad discussion is

Did it include threats or were they just talking about the concept? That can be taken many ways. In fact, it is supposed to mean something other than terrorism in its true usage.

[pinto]

26. Russian Prsident Putin said the info passed on was unfortunately "not actionable".

[John2]

8. Even though the media or Government wants

to make something out of this, it means nothing. The term Jihad has been used by thousands and probably millions of people in private conversations I have used the Term in private conversations with friends ever since 9/11. It is a very common term used now. Unless these people can come up with evidence of some conspiracy between these people other than the two brothers, it means zilch. And if the Russians had such evidence, why did they allow this man in Russia to meet with these groups? And what have they done to the mother? The media,FBI and CIA have to do better than this. The only thing they are manufacturing is rumors plain and simple by anonymous sources.

[Stardust]

14. Is it just me or is this tragedy is becoming more and more like a reality show or

Last edited Mon Apr 29, 2013, 10:21 PM - Edit history (1)

a really bad soap opera. I swear, I've known people like momma: the original drama queens, narcissistic & self-pitying. I'd just as soon the media would downplay her but of course, they won't. And boys were losers, or sadsacks as one DUer called them, selling pot to pay the bills. Just a really pathetic story. I hope, but don't really expect that there will be a speedy trial. The news shows love this stuff...can tell you about the plane crash with a gleam in her eye.

[jberryhill]

16. Mom disappears, Russians now have interesting stories

Sure they did.

Cool Story, Comrades!

[LisaL]

32. Mom didn't disappear.

She just isn't going to come to US.

[jberryhill]

37. Regardless

The uncritical acceptance of whatever is said by anonymous Russian sources here is astounding.

[farmbo]

17. Why didn't they pull a FISA warrant?

The FISA courts would have given them out like candy-- particularly with the " probable cause" from the Russian contacts.
They should have been tapping their phones and emails from this end for the past 2 years. This was just p... poor police work, pure and simple.

After all... Isn't that why we had to surrender our civil liberties after 9/11?

[roseBudd]

19. They were brothers, I doubt they needed to discuss via phone or email

[roseBudd]

18. You can't put a 24/7 tail on everyone who might build a homemade bomb. Thanks to the NRA....

we can't watch for questionable purchases like gunbpowder, or 6,000 rounds of ammo. (James Holmes)