Pope is asked to make priestly celibacy optional

[onehandle]

Source: AP



BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) — She uses a wheelchair and carries the weight of her 87 years, but Clelia Luro feels powerful enough to make the Roman Catholic Church pay attention to her campaign to end priestly celibacy.

This woman, whose romance with a bishop and eventual marriage became a major scandal in the 1960s, is such a close friend with Pope Francis that he called her every Sunday when he was Argentina's leading cardinal.

Luro's convinced that he will eventually lead the global church to end mandatory priestly celibacy, a requirement she says "the world no longer understands." She believes this could resolve a global shortage of priests, and persuade many Catholics who are no longer practicing to recommit themselves to the church.

"I think that in time priestly celibacy will become optional," Luro said in an interview with The Associated Press in her home in Buenos Aires, after sending an open letter to the pope stating her case. "I'm sure that Francis will suggest it."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/pope-asked-priestly-celibacy-optional-155135708.html

[Cleita]

1. Well, for the diocesan priests anyway.

Those who join monastic orders might want to continue the celibacy policy, but for the rank and file priest who works among the laity, I think the time has come. Actually, priesthood celibacy in the church was not practiced widely until about the tenth century I believe. The Irish church particularly had married priests.

[Cal33]

2. Making it optional is great. The layman may choose to marry or not,

why shouldn't priests have the same privilege? They did at one time
in the earlier centuries of the church.

[Angelonthesidelines]

6. Because those dark ages popes were greedy bastards

If the priest's accumulated wealth had no heir, the church took claim.

[CTyankee]

8. YUP! That'll be the day when the church stands to lose real $$...

I don't think the higher ups give a rats ass. It's all about the financial situation...

[Xithras]

11. There were a number of issues with it during the dark ages

Another of the biggies was the fact that priests had to fund their church using tithes. They kept a percentage to feed themselves and maintain their church, and sent the rest back to Rome. This generated a number of different problems.

First, it meant that the priest would need to hold back more money for himself to feed his family, reducing the amount sent to Rome.

Second, it generated resentment among parishioners. The church presented tithes as a way to maintain "God's Church". If most of the tithes were going to feed and house the priests family, many people would look at it as a sort of "priestly welfare".

Third, lifespans were much shorter back then, and it was fairly common for people to die in their 20's and 30's. If a priest had a wife and children living with him on Church property, and he died, the church was put in a tough spot. How do you move a NEW priest (and potentially, his family) into a church, when it's still occupied by the widow and children of the LAST one? Forcing widows and orphans onto the street wasn't good for the churches image.

And yes, there was also the land collection problem.

In many ways, it really did make sense for the Catholic Church to require celibacy back during the dark ages. Nowadays, however, it's a relic that should be discarded.

[onehandle]

3. Right. They don't call them monks for nothing.

Let them choose the more rigorous path.

[okasha]

13. The Irish Church had married nuns, too,

some of whom were married to priests. Before the Roman version of Christianity crowded out the Celtic, women, including nuns, were free to pursue various professions and leadership roles on an equal basis with men.

[msongs]

4. first they have to be married of course or their non-celebacy will condemn them to hell nt

[SunSeeker]

7. LOL. nt

[Politicalboi]

5. It's NOT going to cure them

They will still have pedophiles creeping around. The ONLY way to cure them is to let women run the church. And that ain't never going to happen. I just hope they disappear one day into the abyss.

[merrily]

22. You are right. Marriage does not cure pedophilia. Plenty of pedophiles are married and

plenty of celibate folks are not pedophiles.

[meow2u3]

28. Pedophile priests were pedophiles before they entered the seminary

Priestly celibacy has nothing to do with pedophilia. The real reason many pedophiles become priests is the same reason they become teachers, scout leaders, foster parents, or even day care workers: so they can have access to children they can molest.

[treestar]

9. That would be a good idea

They're getting to the point where they won't have any priests.

[GreenStormCloud]

10. A married priest can better understand his parishioners. N/T

[merrily]

17. That assumption has never been tested.

Seems logical, but we don't really know.

Single therapists treat married patients; heterosexual therapists treat gay patients; gay therapists treat heterosexual patients.

If you are a priest, that already is a huge difference between you and most of the rest of the population.

[GreenStormCloud]

23. Protestant preachers are usually married.

In some denominations it is required that the preacher be a married man. I would say that those denominations should count as a test of the concept.

[merrily]

24. No, it's not a test. You're saying only that married clergy exist. That is not the issue.

We all know that it is possible for clergy to marry.

The issue is whether married clergy are better able to minister to their flocks than are celibate clergy.

I don't know if any attempt has been made to study that, or if a study would be valid, as the failthful are likely to have a bias in favor of their own clergy.

[GreenStormCloud]

25. Evangelical churches are growing faster than the population.

Last week's issue of Time had an article about the increasing number of Latinos that are leaving Catholicism to Evangelical Protestantism (Mostly Pentecostal). Obviously something is happening.

[merrily]

26. Recent growth of evangelical churches does not equate to married clergy being

better able to minister to their flocks. There are lots of other reasons for growth of evangelical churches.

There have been married clergy in the Orthodox church for two thousand years. And married clergy in non-Catholic denominations, including Jewish and Protestant for a very long time.

[merrily]

12. I thought celibacy came about as a financial issue.

Priests take a vow of celibacy, poverty and obedience.

They are supposed to turn their assets over to the church and to leave whatever they own on death to the church.

If you leave a widow and children, that financial arrangement gets complicated. It's even more complicated if you don't have money and leave a widow and minor children. Who will support them? You have not been paid a salary, so you will not be eligible for OASDI. It will be up to the church.

Now, priests who retire (or who have been asked to retire) live out their retirement in clergy retirement homes. If priests have wives, will the church have to pay the pensions?

"It's complicated."

[Cleita]

14. I've known a couple of priests, who inherited money, and who did not leave it to the

church but a next of kin heir. I really don't know what the rules are, but maybe the diocesan priests are allowed to own property and the monastic ones are required to leave their fortunes to their order.

[merrily]

15. Regardless, the financial bit was related to creation of the celibacy rule.

I can't remember the last time I knew what was in a priest's will.

[Coyotl]

18. Not so.

Some priests are very wealthy and manage personal fortunes. I know of one who had many Holiday Inns and an affair with the coach's wife at our school.

[merrily]

19. Are you saying that creation of the celibacy rule had nothing to do with the issues I stated?

Or that priests don't take vows of celibacy, poverty and obedience?

Because that is what my post was about, the general rule, not the exceptions.

The priest you cite broke his vow of celibacy. Maybe he broke his vow of poverty as well.

The anecdotal cases are beside the point.

[Coyotl]

20. No.

[merrily]

21. Well, that is what my post was about

[Wolf Frankula]

27. Only Members of Orders Take Vows Of Poverty

Secular priests, like most diocesan priests don't take vows of poverty. The Major Reason for Priestly Celibacy was to prevent sons of the clergy from inheriting offices and wealth. If a bishop of a wealthy bishoprick could leave it to a son, in time that bishop would be wealthy and powerful enough to challenge the pope, or the king. If the pope could leave the papacy to a son, the papacy in time would be more powerful than all the kings put together.

Secular lords also approved of clerical celibacy. Amazing what one can hear in the SCA.

Wolf

[Coyotl]

16. Let's not forget the nuns.

A girl has to have a good time now and again too!

[kimbutgar]

29. This would be a plus for the church and encourgage more practicing catholics men to become priests.

I have a friend who's brother is a deacon in the Catholic Church. He is married with kids and grand kids. But he is one of the most religious men I know and would become a priest in a heartbeat if the church allowed it.

I was raised Catholic, 12 years of Catholic school but no longer am a practicing Catholic. I married the first time in the Catholic church to an abusive drunk. The guy hit me a couple of times and finally I couldn't take it anymore. After I separated from him I went to get spiritual counseling from a priest and he told me to beg for my husband forgiveness and go back to him because I married in the church and divorce is against the Catholic church. I was stunned into silence. After calming down I asked the priest for a blessing and left. After that I never considered myself Catholic again. The guy was so out of touch. A married Priest would be more sympathetic to the breakdown of my marriage and might have provided me with the proper guidance. 24 years later and happily married to another guy I knew I made the right decision.