Pope Francis urges decisive action against sex abuse

[onehandle]

Source: Reuters



VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Francis wants the Catholic Church to "act decisively" to root out sexual abuse of children by priests and ensure the perpetrators are punished, the Vatican said on Friday. Francis, in a meeting with the Holy See's doctrinal chief, Archbishop Gerhard Muller, had declared that combating sexual abuse was important "for the Church and its credibility", a statement said.

Francis inherited a Church mired in problems and a major scandal over priestly abuse of children. It was believed to be the first time Francis had taken up the issue of sex abuse with a senior member of his staff since his election on March 13.

Muller is head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican department which includes the office of the "promoter of justice", or sex crimes prosecutor, which investigates cases of sexual abuse and decides if priests are to be defrocked.

Francis said the department should continue to "act decisively as far as cases of sexual abuse are concerned, promoting, above all, measures to protect minors, help for those who have suffered such violence in the past (and) the necessary procedures against those who are guilty," a statement said.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-wants-church-act-decisively-against-sex-120001698.html

[Katashi_itto]

1. Very cool. I think he's setting the stage to really break with the old Pope's mishandling of it.

[trotsky]

2. And yet at the same time...

Pope Immunity: Vatican Will Protect Benedict From Sexual Abuse Prosecution
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/17/pope-immunity_n_2708518.html

Say one thing, do another...

[loudsue]

3. This is wonderful, and should help some of the victims to heal. Not all, but some.

I am so grateful that they have a real human being up there.

[Walk away]

4. Does anyone actually believe any of the Bishops and Cardinals who have spent decades...

not just covering up the global raping of children, but creating a system that encourages it to continue, will be punished by this powerless Pope? They elect a figurehead with no connections to live like a monk and do feet washing publicity stunts for the cameras while Cheney/Ratzenberger continues to live in luxury, hold court and (obviously) run the business as usual. Only people trained from birth to believe in a virgin birth could possibly be so easily brainwashed into believing this bunk.

Will the church continue to let it's dioceses file for bankruptcy while settling it's child abuse cases? Will Ratzenberger and his friends be held responsible for the cover up???? No, of course not.

[Kelvin Mace]

5. If you want the church to "act decisively"

then YOU need to act decisively.

First step: Release the report that Benedict resigned over. Second step: Allow Ratzinger, Berard Law, et al, to be extradited.

Unless both of those things occur, nothing is going to change.

[struggle4progress]

6. Is there an outstanding arrest warrant for Ratzinger somewhere?

[Kelvin Mace]

8. No, but several jurisdictions would at least issue

subpoenas if they knew he had lost his diplomatic immunity.

[struggle4progress]

10. Ratzinger not being a diplomat, how could he have "diplomatic immunity"?

[deurbano]

11. Lateran Pacts

Seems like he may have a type of (diplomatic-ish) immunity in Italy, at least:

<<...would continue to provide him immunity under the provisions of the Lateran Pacts while he is in the Vatican and even if he makes jaunts into Italy as a Vatican citizen.

The 1929 Lateran Pacts between Italy and the Holy See, which established Vatican City as a sovereign state, said Vatican City would be "invariably and in every event considered as neutral and inviolable territory".>>




http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/15/us-pope-resignation-immunity-idUSBRE91E0ZI20130215

[struggle4progress]

14. The 1929 Lateran Treaty was modified in 1985 to ensure that

Italian law does NOT apply within the territory of the Vatican. Here's the modification

In the original pacts:

... Article 8

Considering the person of the Supreme Pontiff to be sacred and inviolable, Italy declares any attempt against His person or any incitement to commit such attempt to be punishable by the same penalties as all similar attempts and incitements to commit the same against the person of the King.

All offences or public insults committed within Italian territory against the person of the Supreme Pontiff, whether by means of speeches, acts, or writings, shall be punished in the same manner as offences and insults against the person of the King ...

But Italy has not had a king since the Republic was established

Similarly, in the original

... Article 22 ...

The Holy See shall hand over to the Italian State all persons who may have taken refuge within the Vatican City, when accused of acts committed within Italian territory which are considered to be criminal by the law of both States. ...

Is that still in effect or not?

[deurbano]

19. I don't know.

I think the immunity granted by Italy would only be needed if the ex-pope goes outside Vatican City. (Since it's surrounded by Italy.) I don’t believe that type of protection would be needed if he stays within the boundaries of Vatican City because that’s a sovereignty issue (also addressed in the Lateran Pacts). Article 22 mentions "acts committed within the Italian territory which are considered to be criminal by the law of both states"... so maybe that provides an "out" for the Vatican-- which could choose not to consider certain acts (alleged to have been committed) by the pope to be criminal. And if the alleged crimes didn't take place in Italy, wouldn't that be another barrier to prosecution? (I mean, I have no idea how it works, but if the accusers have to go through Italy to get to the Vatican...)

At the link you provided, the reason given for the 1985 modification to the treaty was: <<Rather than lose the favourable Lateran Pacts, the Vatican let them be revised to remove mention of a state religion (in the Supplementary Protocol to Article 1).>> It seems like it was also an attempt to modernize and clarify the agreement.

However, the specific modifications outlined do not seem to reference Article 8 (from the original pacts), and since the position of king was long gone by 1985… maybe the intent was to allow the pope to retain the same immunity (etc.) afforded the king (when there was a king)? Otherwise, why not modify/modernize that section as well? (Of course, as the Head of State of an entity recognized as sovereign by Italy, a pope is already protected, right?)

On the other hand, is the following still in effect in Italy?!! <<…public insults committed within Italian territory against the person of the Supreme Pontiff, whether by means of speeches, acts, or writings, shall be punished in the same manner as offences and insults against the person of the King.>>

I don’t see how Article 8 would protect an EX-pope, though. The Reuters article I linked seems to indicate he gets Lateran mileage (immunity-wise) in Italy just from being a citizen of Vatican City: <<After he resigns, Benedict will no longer be the sovereign monarch of the State of Vatican City, which is surrounded by Rome, but will retain Vatican citizenship and residency. That would continue to provide him immunity under the provisions of the Lateran Pacts while he is in the Vatican and even if he makes jaunts into Italy as a Vatican citizen.>> Maybe the reporter is wrong… or maybe there are legal precedents in Italy (regarding interpretation of the Lateran Pacts) that are not being mentioned. Or is it that he is still considered some kind of high ranking “official” of a place Italy recognizes as sovereign? (With diplomatic immunity as a result of the sovereign state recognition in the Lateran Pacts?) Or… who knows? Ultimately, I guess the treaty’s interpretation is up to the Italian government.

Also, I didn’t realize there are other places (besides Vatican City) that are considered part of Vatican City (sovereignty-wise):
<<During the Conclave to find the next pope, Benedict will reside at the Apostolic Palace on Lake Albano, southwest of Rome. Benedict XVI will stay at the Vatican’s summer residence from Feb. 28 until the convent of Mater Ecclesiae (Mother of the Church) will be ready. Here is a look at the Vatican, Castel Gandolfo, and the Apostolic Palace.>> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/02/from-vatican-city-to-castel-gandolfo-the-popes-digs/

He was flown to the Apostolic Palace by helicopter. So, if the Italians decided not to provide immunity (just for speculation’s sake, since I can’t imagine that happening), could they refuse to let him use Italian airspace to get from papal villa to papal villa? (Though I think he will just hunker down in Vatican City once his digs are ready…)
.

[Kelvin Mace]

21. He had it by virtue of being Pope

he has it now in that the current Pope has made clear he will not honor extradition requests. If Ratzinger goes out side Italy/Vatican City then he may have problems.

[struggle4progress]

24. I thought you said there were no criminal charges against him.

I myself am unaware of any civil suits against him, but in general countries don't extradite for civil suits, so maybe that's not really relevant

[Kelvin Mace]

25. Back in the 2003-2004, there was talk

in several jurisdictions (MA, TX and CA) about issuing subpoenas on the criminal side of the investigations. This talk vanished when word came down from Bush's Justice Dept that this would not be allowed.

Then, coincidentally I am sure, The Church began attacking Kerry and telling Catholics they couldn't be good Catholics and vote for Kerry because of his stand on abortion.

Terribly convenient.

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. If the trade off for really ending child abuse in the Church is immunity for the last Pope

I would accept that. If that is what it took to get the old guard to stand down and allow Francis to clean up the mess and prevent any further abuse, it would be worth it. I realize that is a pretty big "If".

[Kelvin Mace]

23. The abuse will not stop until the guilty

are punished, and by guilty I also mean the people who covered it up, not just the molesters.

[broadcaster75201]

7. All talk.

There will be no action. It will continue. Blah, blah, blah, blah. People give him CREDIT for saying, essentially, "this is bad, mmmkay"?

Soon as the Church follows that mythological tome it loves so dearly and sells all that it has and gives it to the poor, I'll be impressed.

[SunSeeker]

9. +1

[Catherina]

12. It's a lot more than talk

In Argentina, he instituted a zero-tolerance policy and formally instructed all the dioceses to immediately report all allegations of abuse to civil authorities. for prosecution, to revoke the priest's license and hold a canonical trial in that diocese's court.

[Adsos Letter]

13. If he follows through with that on a worldwide scale

it would be a very, very good thing.

[calimary]

15. Well, I'll wait and see. All we've had is talk so far, and an awful lot of covering-up.

Said she, a resident of the Los Angeles Archdiocese where our wonderful roger mahony presided, and covered up for molester priests all over the place.

As a mother, I won't take this one on faith. I won't be content with just encouraging words. I'll need to see action on this before I start standing up and cheering. This is easy stuff to make nice-sounding or powerful speeches about. Speeches, schmeeches. The hard stuff involves meeting this head-on, yanking the perpetrators OUT of action, and seeking actual justice, not just moving them out of range so people in the afflicted parish (hopefully) think something's been done and then promptly forget about it.

And it'll involve some systemic changes if this problem is really and seriously to be addressed. Pope Francis is going to have to revise a few policies about the priesthood to make this "promise" worth anything.

We'll see. We've heard all the nice talk and the reassuring words before. So far they've meant very little. We'll see.

[trotsky]

16. Making matters more complicated...

we often don't know about abuse cases until years, if not decades after they happen - when the now-ADULT victims finally get the therapy and confidence to come forth with the evidence.

The new pope is doing a fantastic job SAYING the right things. Running a really good PR campaign. Yet as the link I posted above shows, the church is still officially protecting its leaders from investigation.

[calimary]

17. Exactly. The WORDS are there.

But we've had WORDS handed down to us from on high before. And the problem persists. And the perpetrators are protected instead of the victims. And the conditions that allow for this kind of horror carry on as if there's just complete dismissal of the changing world the Church must recognize and minister unto - AS IT IS, and NOT as the Church would dictate it to be.

When Pope Francis starts recognizing the talent pool that constitutes at least 51% of the global population - that's still being flatly and uncompromisingly dismissed (women, that is) - THEN I'll believe we'll start to see meaningful change. The institution has to work with the world in which it finds itself. Now. Today. In THIS century. NOT back when, during Jesus's day, or Emperor Constantine's day, or any other day in the past. The world is changing. And the Catholic Church MUST change and grow with it if it expects to play a relevant role in THIS WORLD NOW.

You CANNOT fight or dispute evolution - even if you yourself don't believe in it. That does not make it go away or otherwise cease to exist. And if you continue to think that way, it will eventually be YOU that goes away or ceases to exist. Evolution itself will continue. Just ask the dinosaurs and the trilobites.

[AngryOldDem]

27. I think it will all depend on how much blowback he gets from the curia.

He needs to get them in line if he has any chance of any kind of reform.

I'm becoming more willing to give this man a chance. He has said and done more encouraging things in the past three weeks than Benedict did in his entire pontificate.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

18. Gotta give the man credit, he's said all the right things since being installed.

Hopefully he will act on these statements as well.

[BadtotheboneBob]

28. And done some right things, too...

... from the get-go. I'm not of that faith, but I'm getting a feeling that he's going to make some daring changes in the future. Like reducing the opulence of the hierarchy and emphasize more humility and service from them and the church in general. I find it remarkable that he's the first Jesuit Pope. We'll see...

[iandhr]

20. Lets see if he backs this up with action.

[hrmjustin]

26. I am glad he feels that way and look foward to actions on the RCC part.