Pope Francis wants 'poor Church for the poor'

[dipsydoodle]

Source: BBC News

Pope Francis has said he wants "a poor Church, for the poor" following his election as head of the world's 1.2bn Catholics on Wednesday.

He said he chose the name Francis after 12-13th Century St Francis of Assisi, who represented "poverty and peace".

He urged journalists to get to know the Church with its "virtues and sins" and to share its focus on "truth, goodness and beauty".

>

In his first audience at the Vatican, he said Jesus Christ and not the Pope was the centre of the Church, which he stressed was "spiritual not political" in nature.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21812545

[Wolf Frankula]

1. Does That Mean He's Giving Up the Two Palaces

and the six hundred dollar shoes? Or does he mean that OTHER people should be poor, not the office of the Pope? (He would, of course say he IS poor, that nothing belongs to him, just to his office.)

Wolf

[NYC Liberal]

2. Check out the posts on catholic.com:

Hence the fear....this sounds to me like a man who wants to spend his time pilgrimaging to Africa and India to support the poor and not one who has much interest in shaming the errant members of Western congregations into returning to Orthodoxy. Not that we should be supporting the poor (particularly the truly poor we find outside of developed nations)....only that I think combatting the sin and immorality is more pressing.

[OneGrassRoot]

15. "combatting the sin and immorality is more pressing"

Last edited Sat Mar 16, 2013, 01:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Thanks for sharing that, NYC Liberal.

I'm not religious, and no fan of the RCC in general, so I'm not quite sure how to take that person's comments.

But my first thought is that poverty IS a sin and immoral, especially in contrast to the obscene wealth of the RCC.

I'm with others...while most liberals abhor the judgments and restrictions of the RCC regarding many issues (gender equality, gay rights, reproductive freedom, etc), if he will walk the talk about poverty, that's a positive thing.

What I'm waiting to see is whether it's a true devotion to social justice as far as poverty (hoping he can grow to recognize that social justice involves more than economics), or whether it's more about about evangelizing and spreading Catholicism.

[Freddie]

26. Agreed

If Pope Francis is sincere in his commitment to helping the poor, and won't be "all abortion all the time" like the American Bishops, I'll be a lot more willing to listen to him. Still anti-gay and anti-women but its a step in the right direction.

[RainDog]

40. The last pope also talked about how rotten capitalism is and has been

While, at the same time, excoriating nuns for focusing on the actual problems of the poor rather than making abortion and contraception their issues.

They don't try to do anything to alleviate problems of poverty while they do a lot to try to create poverty for females.

Since this guy is already on record with a "barefoot and pregnant" statement - phhhft.

When the church uses its influence to support issues like living wages in ways that matter - like the church telling Democratic Catholics they could not receive the sacraments - then it will be something other than hot air.

[hrmjustin]

62. I could not believe when the Vatican literally said you spend too much time on the poor and not

enough time on doctrine.

[RainDog]

65. the current pope is theologically in the same group as Ratzinger

and, apparently, within factions of Catholicism, the current Catholic leadership is considered a form of fundamentalism, just as we see in protestantism and islam - and judaism, for matter.

[hrmjustin]

67. Unfortunately there are some in the RCC leadership that want to make the church smaller

and more pure with it's doctrine.

[RainDog]

70. When I was reading about the theological positions

It reminded me of Jeff Sharlet's article in Harpers called "God Plus One" about the religious fundamentalists in American govt. who were given perks by this religious right wing group who supported adopting "Hitler or Stalin-like" tactics - because they were doing it for good reasons... as if Nazis and Stalinists thought they were evil empires...

oi.

that's how religion justifies abuse of the separation of church and state in this nation.

That article was the basis for Sharlet's book, The Family, that looked at the perversion of American political life by religious fundamentalism.

[hrmjustin]

71. The Bishops might deny it but the closing of parishes have the effect of making nominal church

goers from going at all.

[iemitsu]

44. The Catholic Church, with all its flaws (and there are many)

has historically not been as antagonistic toward the poor as Protestantism, especially as manifested by some sects found in the United States.
It is in America where the, "poor are poor because they are lazy and make bad choices" belief was perfected.
I don't mean to suggest that the Catholic Church ever championed wealth or land redistribution, other than from the poor to the rich, but they don't blame the poor for their own poverty. They are not as nasty as the anti-poor folk here. Well, some who call themselves Catholic, like Paul Ryan, are among the nasties.
That said, any move or statement, by this or any Pope, has been considered, worded, and presented to elicit specific responses from his audience. They make calculated statements. The church has not been in such a compromised position often: sex scandals, money laundering scandals, and two living Popes.
This Pope was selected to deal with public relations. He needs to be the clean-up Pope, the custodian who sweeps away the trash and evidence from the malfeasance of the last, and disgraced Pope.
Take nothing he says at face value.
Yet some good may come from the Catholic Church, as a result of his election and the situation the church finds itself in today.
Who knows?

[OneGrassRoot]

46. You're so right. We shall see...

eyes and ears wide open.

[iemitsu]

48. My secret hope is that the church decides it has to truly reform

in order to survive into the future.
Its not too likely, but it would be nice if the church, in the face of current criticism, became what they always claimed to be.
Of course, it would be nice if the United States would do the same.

[JDPriestly]

53. Depends on the Protestant denomination.

Methodists, for example started when John Wesley preached to the poorest in England.

So that depends.

One problem with the Catholic Church is that while it is outstanding in terms of many of its social programs and benevolence, the financial dealings of the Vatican Bank are infamous.

I am wondering what Pope Francis will do about the problems in that bank.

John Kerry understands this issue. It is interesting that Pope Benedict quit so soon after John Kerry was named as a potential Secretary of State for the US.

Do the names Cardinal Marcinkus, Banco Ambrosiano, etc. mean anything to you?

Think about it. The Catholic Church could do so much more good than it does because it has been extremely wealthy at certain periods in its history. I don't know the situation now.

[iemitsu]

59. Yes, I recognize that the Methodists and other Protestant denominations, such as

the Society of Friends, have wonderful track records when it comes to, what I would identify as Christian behavior (in fact much better records than the Catholics). These churches believe in and promote human rights and work for the fair treatment of the whole community. I honor and respect them. I hoped my original post allowed for the existence of some benevolent Christian organizations. I meant it to.
The banking problems, the pedophilia, the ex-Pope's secretary in jail, the church backing socially regressive legislation and policies, the list goes on and on. This new Pope has lots to deal with.
You are right to suggest that the church could be a force for much good but I fear that that notion was inserted into their Mission Statement for PR reasons alone.

[hrmjustin]

61. The Vatican told the nun's of the USA that they spend too much time on the poor and not enough time

on doctrine. When I heard that my mouth dropped,but yes some protestant denominations have gone in a different direction from Jesus.

[iemitsu]

76. Yeah, the response of the Vatican to Americans Nun's work with the poor

was appalling. One would think, that even if that is what the church fathers thought, that they would keep their public mouths shut.
What did they think their condemnation would do? Get American Catholics all riled up because nuns are helping the poor rather than haranguing teenagers about sex, a subject they know little about. We want our nuns to help the poor.
Its not like the church hadn't been dealing with enough PR disasters without condemning nuns for charitable work.
What asses!

[Beacool]

4. He already said that he didn't want to wear the red shoes.

[Arugula Latte]

21. That's 'cuz the angels wanna wear 'em ...

[Beacool]

78. Funny!!

He seems to have a sense of humor. The BBC reported that when the Vatican usher brought him a ermine trimmed cape to wear, he told the usher to wear it himself and didn't put it on. Benedict loved the trappings of his office. The luxurious garments and particularly the red Prada shoes. This Pope doesn't care for any of it. I read that they are making handmade wine red shoes for Benedict, since he is no longer allowed to wear the blood red ones. Old and feeble he may be, but he still likes his red shoes. LOL!!!

[Sherman A1]

5. Ya, know

the guy has been on the job for maybe what 4 days now. I think we could cut him a little slack. I have a whole lot of issues with the RCC, but if he is going to highlight the situation the poor find themselves in and help in anyway to alleviate that situation, I count that as a good thing.

[ColesCountyDem]

6. +1 n/t

[demwing]

9. Right? It's a progressive step.

And at least in my opinion, the absolute best use of a foundation with a near global presence, and vast financial reserves, is to serve the poor.

[HuckleB]

17. He didn't pop up out of thin air.

He has a well-known history. This whole idea that he deserves any "slack," is just bizarre.

[Sherman A1]

47. You are entitled to your opinion

and I am entitled to mine. Perhaps it is yours that might be the "bizarre" one in this exchange.

[hrmjustin]

64. Perhaps it would have been better put as give the man a chance.

We all know what we expect out of him but now it is time for him to show us what he is made of.

[RainDog]

68. here's some information about his political affiliation

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2520081

He isn't too fond of separation of church and state if his associations tell us anything.

the political group he is associated with is best known for its support of Berlusconi.

[hrmjustin]

69. I wish Martini could have been pope.

As for the new pope time will tell. I have my expectations but maybe the Holy Spirit might move him to the progressive side.

[idwiyo]

87. Heh, that should tell anyone exactly what kind of person this new pope is. Of all the corrupt

politicians, Berlusconi is in league of his own.

[demosincebirth]

42. You're one reasonable man

[Tumbulu]

82. agreed! nt

[Squaredeal]

3. Better inform the parish priests...

...who brown nose their better off parishioners for donations.

[Beacool]

7. I like this Pope.

Last edited Sat Mar 16, 2013, 12:15 PM - Edit history (1)

The new Pope's style is very different to that of his predecessor, BBC Vatican correspondent David Willey says.

He talks in simple, easy to understand terms about ethical values and shows a remarkable sense of humour, our correspondent says.


--------------

When he passed the crucial two-thirds threshold, his close friend, the Brazilian Cardinal Claudio Hummes hugged him, kissed him and entreated: "Don't forget the poor!"

"And that word went in here," said the new Pope, pointing to his head.


I think that this Pope has good intentions, but will the entrenched Vatican bureaucracy allow him to reform the system? The politics at the Vatican are not that dissimilar from those in DC. Popes and presidents come and go, but there is a permanent class of bureaucrats that do not like change and will fight against it tooth and nail. Look at Obama, he wanted to be transformational. Well, reality smacked him in the butt. Will the same happen to this Pope? He doesn't have the Republicans to contend with, but he has a host of people who are the ones who really run the church and they will not be happy about his proposals.

I wish Pope Francis a lot of luck, he's going to need it.

[dipsydoodle]

8. ditto

Seems odd here that some are not even prepared to give him a chance.

[Beacool]

20. There's always a lot of prejudice against the Catholic church.

I was raised Catholic, although I now attend a Lutheran church, I hold no animosity toward the Catholic church. I went to a school run by progressive Argentine-Irish nuns (I attended school in Buenos Aires because my dad was a diplomat). I have a lot to be grateful to them for, they were there when I really needed them the most. That may not be everyone's experience, but I loved these tough women who gave so much to be in the service of others. The two top nuns had become nuns in their 30s. One raised the children of a brother who had died (along with his wife) in a car accident. The other one took care of her sick mom until she passed away. These nuns had seen the reality of the world, as they had to work to support themselves and family. Pope Francis also became a priest later in life, he was ordained at the age of 32. His parents were working class immigrants and he too knows what it takes to support a family. That's why I think that he eschewed luxury as a cardinal and dedicated himself to the poor and to reforming the Argentine church.

I wish him well in his new endeavor.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

24. You have a lot of nerve.

Telling me that "i'm prejudice" against a man who wants to deny me basic human rights. You have a lot of nerve telling me I should give someone a "chance" who leads an organization that has campaigned and put millions of dollars of resources into making me a second class citizen. I'm so sick of this white heterosexual privilege poking its head into this discussion. Maybe if you lived in a third world country riddled with HIV and overpopulation or if you were one of the groups the church marginalizes in in the west you would have a different opinion. Please tell me what other organizations who hate me I should give a chance to Fred Phelps? The Republican Party?

[MellowDem]

29. Exactly

You'd think these DUers would be congratulating evangelicals for the appointment of someone like Fred Phelps to some position. They just don't get it.

And worst, they blame "prejudice" when people criticize the stated beliefs of their belief system.

I can only assume it's the only way the can deal with the cognitive dissonance of being a liberal and a member of a bigoted homophobic, misogynist organization.

[Beacool]

43. You take a lot of offense over a post that was not directed at you.

I'm not in the mood to argue with you. I'll just say that you have a right to your feelings about the Church and I have mine.




Peace........

[ForgoTheConsequence]

45. It was directed at me.

And people like me. And we're tired of being told to "shut up and deal with it". Calling people "bigoted" for calling out a bigoted organization is asinine.

[hrmjustin]

66. I am gay and a former Roman Catholic who is now Episcopalian and I agree that we must always

challenge the RCC position on gay rights. I will also say that here in DU some people really went overboard with this anti-catholic stuff. I agree that we must never back down but the poster you addressed was right that some ugly bigotry popped it's head in DU and I do not like it.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

91. Anti Catholic?

So if I called out Jerry Falwell would you be equally offended? WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?!?!?!

[hrmjustin]

92. I was not calling you ant-catholic.

Challenging the churches opinion on issues is a perfectly good thing to do. I disagree with there views on many issues. What the problem here was that people told du catholics that they had to leave the church because of the sins and crimes of some of the clergy. There was a guilt-by-association argument going and it turned ugly and a few duers left .

[Ter]

75. A Pope will never be in favor of gay marriage or abortion

It's like hoping the head of the NRA supports gun-control. I understand why they don't, and look at other positions where we can all agree on.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

90. Sure.

Lets find common ground with Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps to, whats the difference? Keep aligning yourself with bigots and homophobes that hate me and want to deny me my rights, very progressive of you. I can't believe the number of "liberals" who are ok with marginalizing an entire demographic of people.

[elleng]

57. Hey, Beacool!

I agree, and am essentially not participating in these discussions here.
(Daughters attended fine Catholic schools, in DC, after 3rd grade, for education and progressive reasons.)

[Beacool]

77. Hi, how are you?

I guess that you can't say anything positive about the Church or this new Pope without someone taking offense. I refuse to argue with these people since it's pointless. Goodness knows that I don't agree with some of the Church's positions, but overall they were a positive influence in my life. Ditto for the Lutheran church that I now attend.

I bet that your daughters still remember what they learned. I loved my nuns, they were good women. They are now gone, but we continued to stay in touch until they both passed away.

[skepticscott]

11. Here's a news flash

The new pope is part of that entrenched mindset at the Vatican, or he wouldn't have been elected. He is Ratzi's man through and through. He and his handlers know what to say and what vibe to try to send out to get liberal Catholics all a-quiver with optimism, but his views on equality for women and gays are dead on the RCC party line, and will not change.

[Beacool]

14. The man has been Pope for only a few days.

So far, I like how he talks. I believe in giving someone a chance before I make a final decision on the person. As far as gay marriage and abortion, it's the Catholic Church, they are never going to approve of either. Although, I do hope that in time they will change their views on birth control and the role of women in the hierarchy.

[HuckleB]

16. The problem is that he has a history of sticking himself into politics in Argentina.

Thus, we already know that part of this statement is pure BS.

[Moonwalk]

28. He gets a probation period, not a grace period--given all the RCC has done that is...

I'm with ForgotheConsequence on this. Given the horrific things the RCC has done, from it's "protect the pedophile" policies meaning decades (centuries) of ignoring unforgivable child abuse, to spending millions against gay marriage, interfering with contraception for women, stomping on women's rights, etc--and these affecting those who are not even part of their church--destroying whole countries--given all this, the RCC, like the Republican party, doesn't get a "grace period" for it's new leader.

It gets a probationary period. At least from me. They have surrendered all right to "innocent until proven guilty" and must instead be viewed as guilty until they prove themselves innocent.

WHEN and if this Pope PROVES he means what he says and shows it with right actions THEN I'll give him a little more trust. Each time he does something right, he'll earn a little more. But he doesn't get my blind trust right out of the gate. Just the opposite. That may be wrong of me in regards to him as a person, but I'm afraid that is what the organization he works for has earned. I don't trust THEM to pick a good man. I trust them only to pick a good mouthpiece who says what people want to hear.

WE didn't vote for him. Nor did the people in his church. The leaders behind a lot of the church's evil elected him. So there is no reason in the world why I should give him any sort of grace period or consideration. Until he proves himself otherwise, I have no more reason to trust him than I would a new leader of the GOP.

[skepticscott]

32. +1000

Very well stated. Though I'm sure it will have some here thinking of you as a bigot.

[skepticscott]

31. As noted, what he's said publicly so far

Has been carefully crafted to produce exactly that response. But I see nothing in what he's said to convince me that he has any intention to push against entrenched Catholic doctrine.

[JDPriestly]

54. The key to finding out what is going on will be to watch how he handles the

Vatican Bank. Will he make changes? Will he make it more transparent?

We shall see.

The Vatican has to change its attitudes about birth control. Its current stance is creating a huge environmental problem and impoverishing millions. That's unacceptable.

The Catholic Church will have to go through a real reformation. The Catholic laity is great. It's the hierarchy that is so perverse.

That is also true in a lot of fundamentalist churches. They get a preacher who is utterly out of his mind and stupid but can put on a great show and make you feel like he is your best friend the moment you meet him.

It is so sad when the phoniness and corruption take over the very places that people go for meaning and solace. Very sad.

Wish you well.

[hrmjustin]

63. Maybe the Holy Spirit will move him to the progressive side of the aisle.

[skepticscott]

72. If the HS intends to do that with a pope

It's sure taking its sweet time.

[RainDog]

41. The Vatican reminds me of the DEA

In spite of overwhelming evidence that their stance on issue x or y is wrong, in spite of scientific evidence to the contrary - their jobs depend on upholding lies.

[skepticscott]

10. Wow, great..the RCC is not political

Then maybe he'll get their tax-exempt ass out of the business of trying to strong-arm the laws and public policy of other sovereign nations.

[patrice]

12. VERY glad to see recognition that the church's political activities should end.nt

[HuckleB]

13. He's good at PR.

I'll give him that much.

[RainDog]

89. Ultimately, he is now pope b/c of the pr disaster of Ratzinger

His election has served to move the conversation away from the continuing pedophile scandal (just this week the L.A. archbishop was charged with aiding and abetting a pedophile priest.)

Then the guy, today, presented the claim that pedophilia isn't a sin, it's an illness. This is to set up, in the mind of the public, the view that priests were kept hidden from justice because the church viewed their actions as illness, not as a legal issue - even tho EVERY NATION in which they are present in the western world has laws that specifically pertain to the actions of pedophiles...and even tho other religious institutions have not shielded pedophiles in their midst from criminal prosecution.

Ratzinger was the person in the Vatican who held all the files on the pedophile issue within the church. I think his resignation was to make it possible to claim dementia or some other ruse to keep him from testifying. This is how Reagan defended himself against charges that were, ultimately, treasonous in his actions to fund the taliban, to make deals with the Iranian govt to delay the release of hostages, etc. etc.

Some of us are pretty tired of this "it's okay if you're an rich old white guy" attitude toward crime.

The current pope has already made statements that compare homosexual rights to marriage as something from the devil and stated women are not fit to hold political office.

This indicates that he is not mentally fit to have any power over the role of either women or homosexuals. There is no evidence to support his claims. There is evidence that he is full of shit.

But, sure, if he wants to call for politicians to stop beating up on poor people - great. When he decides to stop beating up on women and homosexuals - that will be when he has demonstrated he's nothing but a mask to cover the face of an institution so corrupt they would justify disobeying the law to shield one of their own from justice when that person or those persons were raping children.

And, as Andrew Sullivan made clear, the church can't blame the culture of liberalism that began in the 1960s as an excuse (which they have already tried to do to, again, remove their own culpability in assisting in the rape of children.) The cover up goes back to Paul VI.

[jerseyjack]

18. Didn't he juse kick Vernon Cardinal Law out of a position that Ratzy appointed him to?

[Tumbulu]

84. Really, that fast?

[Smilo]

19. So all you poor people who can't afford to feed your

families - keep on pushing out those babies because that is the Catholic/Christian thing to do. There is no beauty in being poor - a la Mother Theresa - she who garnered millions in donations but nary a cent was given to the poor - who were treated abysmally - as she pushed her anti-abortion/no population control message. Her Homes for the Dying were overcrowded and primitive, patients sharing beds. But hey lack of medicines and used (until beyond blunt) needles, etc. were okay because according to Mother Teresa it is "the most beautiful gift for a person that he can participate in the sufferings of Christ". People saw her as a "saint" - this woman was far removed from that. Poor should never be equated with beauty the way she did.

So Pope Francis are you going to follow the teachings of Jesus and not politics and treat people far better than has been done in the past, and what about letting anyone marry who they want to marry and while you are at it let people use contraception. Abortion - we can let that wait awhile, but in the meantime you could lessen the rhetoric.

[Flaxbee]

22. Exactly. I can understand the objection to abortion, but contraception?

Not "allowing" contraception is just medieval. Which fits the church, actually.

One sure way to keep the poor in poverty is to prevent them from determining if and when they have children, and how many. The stupid guilt trip about reproducing to "replenish the earth" (which the church seems to think means overpopulate) is ridiculous and destroys the lives of so many women and their families.

[Freddie]

27. Give the RCC a hundred years or so

They'll come around on this one eventually.

[OldEurope]

23. But how can he (or anyone else) help the poor, if...

...he does not want to do politics? Just giving them some money is not going to end their distress. And IMHO it is also not really helpful to promise them a better afterlife if they only suffered here and now.

But then, I'm not even a catholic.

[jcboon]

25. You'd be surprised how far a little money goes to alleviating the problem of being poor

[OldEurope]

37. Sure.

But it will not solve the problems on the long run. Capitalism as it is now in the western world is creating poverty again and again. You give some money to poor parents and prevent their children from starving. This, however, will not prevent the children from beeing poor, too. They will have children of their own despite beeing terribly poor because the RCC says children are a gift and contraceptives are a sin (most poor people cannot afford them anyway). So the handouts of those "Christians" are simply perpetueting poverty while the wealthy can sleep well because they were giving some breadcrumbs.

[Duer 157099]

30. Wait, where's the poster who kept saying a Jesuit would never name himself after a Franciscan?

It sounded logical to me, but now, if that quote above is accurate, this Pope claims that very thing.

[undeterred]

56. Several people made that argument in my post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022502628

[iemitsu]

79. Yes,, the Pope does claim that he chose the name Francis to honor

Francis of Assisi but he made the claim in the context of a PR statement to the press about his intentions as Pope.
It should be remembered that the founder of his own order was also named Francis.
While both of these sainted characters can be seen as positive models for a new Pope the poor one, who helped little children and animals, lends itself to the image the church needs to support just now better than the intellectual, whose model would suggest that addressing doctrinal and structural problems in the church might be the focus of the new Papacy.
He says he has named himself after one Francis while he has dedicated his working life to another Francis.
I guess we should believe Francis, only he knows for sure what was behind the selection of his Pope Name.

[UrbScotty]

33. It is wonderful to see such a humble Pope.

For all its faults, the Catholic Church has a truly wonderful person at the helm.

[Zoeisright]

36. Uh huh. Sure.

Meanwhile, he STILL wants to see the LGBT crowd and women discriminated against, AND he wants to see women live continually pregnant, with no control over their bodies. Not to mention the war crimes in Argentina. And I don't see him giving away the Church's billions, selling off their gold, or letting the homeless live in his palaces.

Yes, WHAT a wonderful person!!

[skepticscott]

38. Here's what makes no sense

When people criticize this guy, they get responses on the order of (including in this thread) "give him a break, he was only chosen a few days ago", but when people fawn over what a wonderful pope he's sure to be, that's taken as perfectly legitimate, even though he was only chosen a few days ago.

[idwiyo]

52. Never mind that he is a homophobic bigot and misogynyst. It's not important. Not at all.

[Fearless]

60. Bingo!

[Humanist_Activist]

58. A wonderful person?!?! Really? n/t

[Arugula Latte]

81. Oh, yeah, so wonderful, unless you're a woman or gay, but, hey, why sweat the details, right?

[Turbineguy]

34. Maybe it's hard

to get that "poor smell" out of the sactuary in time for the richer parishioners to show up?

[elfin]

35. Vatican bank is going to crush him

Doesn't look to me like this man of peace and poverty will have what it takes to reform that nest of corruption.

If he really tries, we will have another conclave shortly thereafter due to sudden illness or resignation.

[dogknob]

39. Shaping up to be a remake of "The Godfather Part III"

Either that or a very large PR move.

I don't trust the RCC any further than I can get away from their bullshit.

[JVS]

50. I'm betting on large PR move.

[broadcaster75201]

49. Oh bullshit. Tell ya what ....

Go sell all that the Church has and give it to the poor and we'll chat.

[Arugula Latte]

80. Yeah, and embrace condoms and other contraception. That's a great way to fight poverty.

[Pryderi]

51. Ebay sale? n/t

[gopiscrap]

55. We'll see I hope he lives up to his word

[Tx4obama]

73. Kick n/t

[tabasco]

74. Yeah,,,,,,,RIGHT!

If he means it and starts giving shit away to charity, we'll have a new popester REAL QUICK!

[Tumbulu]

83. I am very happy to read this

thanks for posting - I do hope that he will be able to make the changes that need to be made.

[awoke_in_2003]

85. he wants a poor church...

because a poor church cannot pay lawsuits to the victims of child molesters.

[no_hypocrisy]

86. With an attitude like that, he'll last as long as Pope John Paul I (Albino Luciani)

who wanted to audit The Vatican.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_I

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1383867/Was-Pope-John-Paul-I-murdered-John-Julius-Norwichs-burning-question-.html

[cbrer]

88. Something new for Catholics to justify vs. the philosophy of Jesus.

Let's not mix the rich churches with the poor. Can't have the rabble rubbing shoulders with the elite.

It's a crying shame that "religion" gets so in the way of studying spirituality.