Official: Hagel Orders Review Of New Cyber Medal
Source: Associated Press
WASHINGTON -- Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has ordered a review of a new medal for troops who operate drones and use other technological skills to fight America's wars from afar.
--CLIP
The official says Hagel is responding to concerns from lawmakers and veterans. They complained that the new Distinguished Warfare Medal can be awarded to troops who serve far from the battlefield - yet it has been ranked above medals for those who served on the front line in harm's way.
Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/03/11/3280245/senate-leaders-join-group-questioning.html
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OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)
Arkana
(24,347 posts)
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)
jsr
(7,712 posts)redeemable for a free operation at the nearest orthopedic surgery shop.
christx30
(6,241 posts)earn you a Purple Heart? If your buddy feels a twinge of pain while he's flying the drone, do you scream "Medic!", or can he power through it until the mission is over?
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)I would love to see a honest documentary of what goes on in these remote killing places.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)i don't envy them.. but they *were* idiotic enough to sign up.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)I tend to read/watch so much stuff every day online that I have trouble remembering where I found something, later.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)MindPilot
(12,693 posts)Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)some feesh just can't help but take the bait..
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)Kinda disruptive too, I've noticed.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)since you're clearly all kindsa bent outta shape. ouch looks uncomfortable.
but yes, i am in fact entitled to my opinion. the bazinga! was for your wit, not mine.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)*click*
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)is solid proof that the vaunted "ALL VOLUNTEER" fighting force isn't what it ought to be. (Assuming this medal was conceived in the Pentagon)
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)they and cyber guys are going to factor into future warfare more and more, and need to have opportunities to advance and earn medals. That said, it's a different thing from physical courage, and certainly shouldn't be ranked higher. I'd bet the drone guys would agree.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)and that's just what i plan to do, if the opportunity presents itself.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)you know...if the opportunity presents itself.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)not all peace activists are pacifists.
ohiosmith
(24,262 posts)Automated Message
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
At Tue Mar 12, 2013, 11:31 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
i disagree. i think drone operators should be spat upon and called 'baby killers'.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=422318
REASON FOR ALERT:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)
ALERTER'S COMMENTS:
This poster is turning this into a military-bashing thread. Yeah there are issues with how drones are used, but to advocate spitting on veterans is waaaaay over the top.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Mar 12, 2013, 11:42 AM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Although I disagree with the post, it is the opinion of the poster. Nothing more or less. Leave it!
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: over-the-top
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Please don\'t argue your case trying to use a jury. This is the sort of post that should be confronted head on in thread. The military is not a protected class here.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Did you know a person can be charged with assault for spitting on another person? Poster needs to rethink his form of protest.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Yeah we will go ahead and hide this bullshit...Fail on you poster-
I just got done telling my 3 year old yesterday it\'s not nice to spit. Now I have to tell random jackholes on the Intertubes
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)How would you find any?
Here's a suggestion that will give you an opportunity. Go to your nearest VFW post. Just look it up in the yellow pages. Go to the bar and tell them what you want to do. I'm sure that some of them will help you.
quakerboy
(13,920 posts)But my understanding is that most of the modern generation of troops do not feel overly welcome in the VFW. Might do better at an Occupy meeting, or an unemployment office. Or maybe IAVA has some sort of meetings.
That said, any which a way, he is likely to get his ass kicked if he starts spitting on young or middle aged men who have recently been in the military. I guess that would be considered real life disruptive, and that's as close to tombstoning as most people are willing to go in real life.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)Macoy51
(239 posts)All snark aside, this highlights a very real cultural divide in the military. If a soldier kills a dozen enemy in hand to hand combat, he is a hero, but what if he was in an air conditioned room 12,000 miles away?
Is a man who walks on hundreds of foot patrols through Taliban territory more deserving of praise than the guy who launched the drone strike that killed a senior Talban leader as well as providing life saving information to the above foot patrols?
While I value the contrubution the drone operator makes, I would not place him in the same category as the private carring a rifle on patrol.
Macoy
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Officers want medals, they enhance promotions points. The higher ranking a medal, the better it is for promotion. Thus the Medal of Honor is the highest Medal a person can earn, followed by the Distinguished Service Cross (Air Force Cross in the Air Force, Navy Cross in the Navy). Then the Defense Distinguished Service Medal, the Homeland Security Distinguished Service Medal and then the Distinguished Service Medal (Army) Please note The Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard have similar medal to the Distinguished Service Medal (Army).
Note, while the top two medals involved Combat or some other personal hazard (tHe Medal of Honor or the Various Crosses), the next three, the Defense Distinguished Service Medal, the Homeland Security Distinguished Service Medal and the Distinguished Service Medal (Army or its Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard equivalents) do NOT require any combat role or even personal hazard.
That the third highest ranking medal does NOT involve any combat or risk to the awardee has always been a problem within the Military. These three medals outrank even the Silver Star, the third highest award for heroism in combat.
Thus this sounds like the latest attempt to move the non-combat medals below the Silver Star, but they is massive resistance to such a move, for most officers are rarely in a position to earn a Silver Star, but often assigned to duties where they can earn the Defense Distinguished Service Medal, the Homeland Security Distinguished Service Medal and the Distinguished Service Medal (Army or its Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard equivalents). Thus a constant source of friction within the Military (and with more and more Women moving up in the Command Change and till now generally even less able to earn combat medals, a huge problem for such women when it comes to promotion time).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_military#By_order_of_precedence
Please note, the medal in question is Distinguished Warfare Medal, which is presently BELOW not only the Silver Star but the Defense Superior Service Medal, the Legion of Merit, the Distinguished Flying Cross AND above Soldier's Medal, Navy and Marines Corp Medals, Air Force Medals, and Coast Guard Medals (When I use the term "Soldier's Medal" I include all of these within that name in this paper).
The above Soldier's Medal are given to people, who while NOT in combat, perform acts of heroism which must include "Life Threatening" acts to the awardee.
the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldier%27s_Medal
In affect, the fight is over should this Distinguished Warfare Medal be ranked above the Soldier's Medal? When the Soldier's Medal all involve personal risk but in a non-combat action, but the Distinguished Warfare Medal involved no personal risk, but is a combat operation?
Should a Medal for operating a drone that kills Al Queda fighters in Afghanistan be ranked higher then the Medal given to someone who saves a child from a burning car, at the risk of his own life, while on a training movement to a training site in the states?
Which should be rated higher? Someone taking a personal risk, but in an action with no effect on the mission? or someone who does major damage to the enemy at no risk?
This is complicated by the fact Women have had a hard time getting combat assignments to even be able to be in a position to win any of the combat related medals.
Please note, this fight is over what OFFICERS can earn, enlistees can also earn all of the Combat Medals, but very few of the non-combat medals (and generally enlistees tend to be in a position to win a combat medal more often then officers, for the officers tend to be, and should be. behind the line directing where the troops should go, NOT leading the attack themselves).
With the US military up or out promotion policy, these Medals may be the factor is who gets the promotion, thus the fight over the ranking of the medal. The higher the ranking, the higher it ranks when it comes to promotion. The lower the ranking of the Medal, the lower it helps the Officer to get a promotion. Should we rank the action of an officer who risk his life to save someone, but that action is outside this duty as an officer, or should we rank higher an officer who does his or her job well, even at no personal risk?
I would prefer to rank the actions of a person, who did something at a personal risk, higher then someone who completed their mission with no risk, but I understand why it may be better to rank the later over the former (i.e. rank completing the mission over non-combat related personal risk). The integration of women in the Service is a factor, as is promotion points, given that the US Military will Shrink over the next few years, seeing a lot of officers booted out due to no place to put them in the subsequent smaller military.
24601
(3,962 posts)to enlisted personnel because they directly affect the points in a soldier's promotion packet.
And when it comes to medals for commissioned officers, a Legion of Merit (or Joint DSSM) isn't normally awarded to a Lt Col (or Navy Commander) except as retirement. And a Distinguished Service Medal (or Joint DDSM) is exceptionally rare for anyone not a General/Flag Officer.
What kind of variances are there? Well, Alan Shepard received the Distinguished Service Medal (3rd highest award under the MoH and Distinguished Service Cross/Navy Cross/Air Force Cross from President Kennedy.
Bronze Stars come for Valor (with a V device) or for Meritorius Service in a combat zone - even if the recipient was nowhere near any fighting.
LJB received a Silver Star for riding along on a flight during WWII - here is the Citation"
"For gallantry in action in the vicinity of Port Moresby and Salamaua, New Guinea on June 9, 1942. While on a mission of obtaining information in the Southwest Pacific area, Lieutenant Commander Johnson, in order to obtain personal knowledge of combat conditions, volunteered as an observer on a hazardous aerial combat mission over hostile positions in New Guinea. As our planes neared the target area they were intercepted by eight hostile fighters. When, at this time, the plane in which Lieutenant Commander Johnson was an observer, developed mechanical trouble and was forced to turn back alone, presenting a favorable target to the enemy fighters, he evidenced marked coolness in spite of the hazards involved. His gallant action enabled him to obtain and return with valuable information."
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq60-7.htm
RC
(25,592 posts)After all, how many countries that we are not at war with, have armed drones killed innocent civilians, with no terrorist in sight, except for the armed drone?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)
Bandit
(21,475 posts)When you first go to basic you have to learn how to shoot your weapons and demonstrate your skill at doing so. You receive badges such as Expert, Sharpshooter, or Marksman.. I think operating drones should have badges showing skill level as well... It really doesn't take bravery or going above and beyond, it just takes skill.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)MindPilot
(12,693 posts)IDemo
(16,926 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)
