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question everything

(47,486 posts)
Fri Mar 1, 2013, 02:27 PM Mar 2013

South Africa arrests officers linked to man's dragging death

Source: CNN

Johannesburg (CNN) -- South African authorities Friday arrested eight police officers accused of being involved in dragging a man down a road while he was handcuffed to the back of a police van.

(SNIP)

he video was captured by cell phone in Daveyton, near Johannesburg, shocking the world for its brazen cruelty. Shaky but clear, it shows a man in a red T-shirt and white sneakers talking animatedly with police officers.

The officers then handcuff him to the back of a police van, which pulls away, dragging his feet along the road. Officers and bystanders run alongside. Some in the crowd scream as the van drives away slowly, then picks up speed.

The man, identified as a Mozambican taxi driver, died Tuesday night, a few hours after the incident, in a police cell from his head injuries, according to Amnesty International.



Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/01/world/africa/south-africa-officers-suspended/?hpt=hp_t3

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
South Africa arrests officers linked to man's dragging death (Original Post) question everything Mar 2013 OP
I'm glad they were arrested MynameisBlarney Mar 2013 #1
Slap On The Wrist SoCalMusicLover Mar 2013 #2
The police get away with this stuff everywhere. Look at all the lies told to try to convict OWS .... marble falls Mar 2013 #3
Without effective oversight, this is what all cops become panzerfaust Mar 2013 #6
I live 45 minutes from Jasper, Tx. where a black man named James Byrd was dragged to death by 3 Dustlawyer Mar 2013 #4
Was this recently? I remember this horryifing even some years back question everything Mar 2013 #12
It was around 2005 or so! Dustlawyer Mar 2013 #14
I live here FarrenH Mar 2013 #5
great info. thanks for sharing. frylock Mar 2013 #7
"Xenophobia against other Africans (far more so than Europeans or East Asians or Americans) pampango Mar 2013 #8
The simplest explanation FarrenH Mar 2013 #9
Thanks for spending the time to provide so much background on South Africa. n/t pampango Mar 2013 #11
Second this. We don't get much information about other countries question everything Mar 2013 #13
My pleasure n/t FarrenH Mar 2013 #16
Thanks for the info Liberal_in_LA Mar 2013 #10
Good! lonestarnot Mar 2013 #15
You would think we're in the 18th century Idpomattlex Mar 2013 #17
 

SoCalMusicLover

(3,194 posts)
2. Slap On The Wrist
Fri Mar 1, 2013, 02:34 PM
Mar 2013

This is South Africa after all. So long as they come up with some excuse, they will likely get off with a warning not to let it happen again.

marble falls

(57,102 posts)
3. The police get away with this stuff everywhere. Look at all the lies told to try to convict OWS ....
Fri Mar 1, 2013, 03:51 PM
Mar 2013

activists were accused of attacking the NYCPD. How many cops went to jail for beating Rodney King. Not a doubt in my mind they were trying their hardest to kill him.

 

panzerfaust

(2,818 posts)
6. Without effective oversight, this is what all cops become
Fri Mar 1, 2013, 05:27 PM
Mar 2013

Look at recent events in America ...

I recall from my undergraduate psychology class that the psychological profile of violent habitual criminals was most similar to that of "peace officers"

This is why police states, whether brought to us by the right or by the left, are so hideously dangerous.

Heck, there are even countries on the planet where The Leader is able to murder anyone, anywhere in the world without any judicial review, people can be held for years - often in secret detention - with charges being brought, or even their families knowing where they are, in some countries the government can intercept all personal communications without warrant or notification ...

As one of the American Revolutionaries (actually) observed: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"


We stood up for Liberty Mr. President - where were you?

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
4. I live 45 minutes from Jasper, Tx. where a black man named James Byrd was dragged to death by 3
Fri Mar 1, 2013, 04:24 PM
Mar 2013

white supremacists. The details were horrifying to hear how long they estimated it took for him to pass out, and eventually die. Pieces of him were spread out over 3 miles. No one should be put through that except maybe the ones who did it in the 1st place!

question everything

(47,486 posts)
12. Was this recently? I remember this horryifing even some years back
Sat Mar 2, 2013, 12:54 PM
Mar 2013

which, of course, made the national news and many hoped that it would lead to major changes.

FarrenH

(768 posts)
5. I live here
Fri Mar 1, 2013, 04:52 PM
Mar 2013

We have conflicting messages from both the public and former police commissioners and safety and security ministers to blame. SA has such high crime levels that a lot of people want to bring back the death penalty (which would require constitutional amendment, thank god) and there's a belligerent portion of the population that want cops to take off the gloves. Our previous deputy Safety and Security minister responded with a bunch of very inflammatory comments about cops showing no mercy to criminals, sentiments that were echoed by the police commissioner at the time and passed down the hierarchy. She effectively said procedure be damned on more than one occasion, apparently signalling that cops shouldn't bother filling up our overflowing court rolls if they thought the alleged perp deserved it. Public reaction was mixed, with some outraged, some warning that this was a dangerous attitude from the highest echelons and some (mostly father-knows-best traditionalists and privileged people with paranoid dispositions) yelling full throated approval on call-in shows and letter pages of the papers.

After a number of incidents like this the incoming ministry and police commissioner backed down from these irresponsible statements and tried to foster a more professional, law abiding approach. But many of the police, who to be fair face serious danger and an unacceptably high number of cop-killings every year, seem to have internalized the belligerence of the previous management to an extent that wouldn't simply be dispelled by a few memos and public speeches. What happened to the miners at Marikana was ample demonstration of that.

Of course, who gets the sharp end of this kind of summary justice is an extremely lopsided equation. Xenophobia against other Africans (far more so than Europeans or East Asians or Americans) is still rife, so they're the most vulnerable (this guy was a Mozambican), while suspected criminals who are poor and black south african men are the next most likely to experience summary justice and brutality from cops, even though most cops are black. I don't know why. As a middle-class white male I'm in the least risk category.

The cops pull this kind of shit because they think they can get away with it, thanks to a culture of impunity and encouragement under previous management. The present management is ambivalent and seems to be walking a fine line between standing behind their people if there's a shadow of doubt and responding to public outrage. If you watch the youtube video, many people in the crowd are yelling "What are you doing!", "You can't get away with this, we are filming you!" while holding up their cellphones. And, in fact, the police initially claimed he was killed by other inmates at the holding cells until a national newspaper got reporters on the ground talking to witnesses and got hold of cellphone footage which they promptly published. At least we have a strong and independent press.

Anyway, the present minister in charge does seem a lot more responsive than her predecessors and has not only had those involved arrested, but suspended the station commander so that he will not try to cover his officers and interfere with the investigation.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
8. "Xenophobia against other Africans (far more so than Europeans or East Asians or Americans)
Fri Mar 1, 2013, 06:29 PM
Mar 2013

is still rife, so they're the most vulnerable (this guy was a Mozambican)..."

It just boggles the mind. Since you live there, do you have an explanation as to why the xenophobia towards other Africans is so much worse?

There is an article in the UK Guardian that refers to this:


Eight South African police arrested over death of man dragged behind van

It has also raised fresh concerns over the treatment of foreign nationals in the country. Dozens of foreigners fled attacks in 2008-09 in an outbreak of violent xenophobia.

Cameron Jacobs, the South Africa director of Human Rights Watch, said: "This is not the first time that we've seen acts of brutality or excessive force. It's also deeply concerning that this incident involved a foreign national. This may have played a part as, after all, this is something we have seen before in this country. Clearly, if you are 'different' you are more likely to be stopped by the police."

It appears the row broke out after Macia, who had lived in the country for 10 years, was accused of parking his minibus taxi on the wrong side of the road and blocking traffic. Police arrived and tried to bundle him into their van.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/01/eight-south-african-police-arrested

FarrenH

(768 posts)
9. The simplest explanation
Fri Mar 1, 2013, 09:57 PM
Mar 2013

is that they occupy the same economic space. Most whites continue to enjoy leafy suburban homes in suburbs with well maintained parks, public swimming pools etc, access to first world amenities like private vehicles, fast internet, megamalls, and so on, and white-collar work. While most Blacks are still blue-collar or unemployed, commute via a haphazard public transport, and either live in shanty-towns or the packed estates of low quality government houses that have been built in the millions since the end of Apartheid. This can be partially accounted for to social networks in business that had their genesis in Apartheid, as well as inherited gains, even though 17 year old white teenagers about to enter the marketplace are part of the "born-free" generation.

But there has been a massive implementation of AA, with the state sector expanding to over a million mostly black employees and tremendous legislative pressure place on large companies to implement various empowerment initiatives. As a result there is now a black middle class at least as large as the white middle class, but considering whites are around 10% of the population, its not much. In gross terms, the black population passed the white population for spending power several years back, but that's distributed over a much bigger demographic. There is massive inequality. We've also implemented the largest welfare state in Africa. These measures have acted as a finger in the dike, but there is growing restlessness and dissatisfaction at the moment, which occasionally explodes into community violence (which also pits the cops against normally law-abiding citizens).

Its not entirely about inherited material advantage either. Black apartheid education was deliberately designed to equip black people to have only basic literacy and be laborers, something the Apartheid authorities were quite honest about. It was through mission schools and a few limited Universities that many of the older generation of struggle heroes like Nelson Mandela were able to get professional degrees. Whites (and Indians who are concentrated in the Natal province and are about 2% of the population) have a much higher average level of education and there has been a lot of ineptness in fixing this, despite education being the biggest budget item for several years.

We see regular reports of poor (and invariably 99% black) schools where teachers have close to 100 students in a class and have basically given up trying to educate more than a fraction of them who are putting in the most effort. Teenage pregnancy and dropout rates are enormous. The better schools are racially integrated and have a lot of Black as well as White, Indian and Coloured kids (I realise that's an offensive term in the states but another result of Apartheid is that mixed race communities were historically isolated from both black and white and mostly self-identify as "Coloured" here, as well as speaking European or European derived languages like English and Afrikaans - a derivative of Dutch - at home). Poor, failing schools, however, are overwhelmingly black.

The upshot of all of this is that, while there's a lot of resentment, there appears to have been remarkable acceptance and pragmatism among the poor that a lot of the better paying professional and technical jobs are going to be filled by Whites and Indians and the occasional Black until education levels improve. In my profession (analyst/programmer) I'd estimate one Black programmer for every eight White programmers. Its hard for me as a white guy to gauge just how far this generous attitude to the privileged extends, we all speak different home languages (although English is the lingua franca of government and commerce) and in my latter years I don't have any close black friends, only casual acquaintances and Facebook buddies. The Black people I regularly interact with both in business and casually have for the most part embraced capitalist ethics and dismiss populist ideas about crude methods of redistribution, as do many public Black intellectuals and commentators in the press. But they're part of an equally small black elite and I'm never certain how much their views coincide with the other 60-70% of the population. Casual conversations with blue collar workers seem to indicate a range of views.

I offer all of this as background because the occasional American or German or Chinese person being parachuted in to fulfil some corporate role doesn't tangibly, visibly affect the working poor. Some, like the Chinese, are seen as creating jobs and opportunities. But Mozambicans, Zimbabweans (SA is now host to more than 3 million, thanks to Mugabe's abysmal record in that country), Malawians and poor Nigerians live in the same shanty towns and RDP housing, they compete for the same blue-collar jobs. And while Black South Africans are very familiar with the raft of labour laws that require minimum salaries and decent basic working conditions, immigrant labour from other parts of Africa are willing to ignore that and take pauper's wages, a fact that unscrupulous businesses are eager to exploit. This drives anti-African Xenophobia, which extends into the police force, since many of them come out of these communities.

Simple demographic ratios, high youth unemployment and the continuing (although no longer intentional, but more emergent from economic factors) segregation of poor blacks mean that young Black men are the majority of perpetrators of crime, and Blacks are the majority of victims. There's a perception that Africans from other countries are more likely to commit crime, since many of them are undocumented and can disappear easily or, like the Nigerians, have a reputation for organised crime (this is slightly unfair since Nigeria also sends us a lot of doctors, engineers and lawyers). But after foreigners, disaffected and jobless young Black South African men are also, it seems, seen as more suspect, which is why I think these categories suffer in the order given from the most police brutality.

question everything

(47,486 posts)
13. Second this. We don't get much information about other countries
Sat Mar 2, 2013, 12:55 PM
Mar 2013

here. Kardashians and other celebrities are the main news.

 

Idpomattlex

(7 posts)
17. You would think we're in the 18th century
Thu Mar 7, 2013, 01:26 PM
Mar 2013

Sadly progress has not reached the minds of certain people. Unbelievable.

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