AP To Use ‘Husband, Wife’ Regardless Of Sexual Orientation
Source: TPM
PEMA LEVY 2:39 PM EST, THURSDAY FEBRUARY 21, 2013
The Associated Press on Thursday updated its stylebook so that married individuals will be referred to as husband and wife, regardless of whether they are in a same-sex marriage. The change comes a week after the AP received criticism for an internal memo designating the word "partners" for individuals in same-sex marriages.
The following entry was added to the stylebook, online and soon in print as well:
husband, wife Regardless of sexual orientation, husband or wife is acceptable in all references to individuals in any legally recognized marriage. Spouse or partner may be used if requested.
"The AP has never had a Stylebook entry on the question of the usage of husband and wife," Mike Oreskes, AP Senior Managing Editor for U.S. News, said in an announcement on the change. "All the previous conversation was in the absence of such a formal entry. This lays down clear and simple usage. After reviewing existing practice, we are formalizing 'husband, wife' as an entry."
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Read more: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/ap-to-use-husband-wife-regardless-of-sexual
Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)Two married men are "husband and husband" two women "wife and wife." How can it be any different?
subterranean
(3,427 posts)It doesn't mean a gay couple will be referred to as "husband and wife." It means the male spouse of a man will be referred to as his husband, and the female spouse of a woman will be called her wife.
Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)brush
(53,794 posts)Hope the husband/husband, wife/wife interpretation is correct.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Evasporque
(2,133 posts)His husband....her wife....etc...
cripes people relax its not rocket science...
Scairp
(2,749 posts)Regardless of it's a man and woman, or two men or two women? I quite often refer to my husband as my spouse (I'm a woman). The gender neutral term spouse works for everyone so they should stick to that, and I don't even know why this is an issue. Just anything to makes things more complicated, no matter how trivial.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)I can't think of a context in which "husband and wife" could not be substituted for "spouses." But husband is a male-gendered term and wife is a female-gendered term. It's not hard to avoid gendered language. Sheesh.
I bet my nephew and his legal spouse would be kinda furious about this: which one is the husband and which is the wife, and what does that even mean?
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)but I think what the style manual update does is allow the reporters to use the terms used by those interviewed rather than restricting the reporters to using different terms based on some arbitrary rule, since now husband, wife, spouse, or partner are all acceptable terms for a member of a married couple.
What it's NOT doing is requiring reporters to call one spouse a husband and the other a wife.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)It's embarrassing to have an article addressing style and have it be so ambiguous as to the usage.
But thanks for the clarification. I guess. Frankly, I can't see many contexts in which any of this usage is necessary:
"John Doe and Jane Smith, who are/were married ...." (not husband and wife)
"John Doe and Jack Smith, who are/were married" (not husband and husband).
"Married couple Jane Doe and Jody Smith" (not wife and wife)
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)I had to read it twice before I figured it out.
marshall
(6,665 posts)Better to refer to either spouse as partner, whether same sex or opposite. That is how British press does it.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)or "wife and wife"?
frazzled
(18,402 posts)What gay couples object to is a double standard in the language; gender-neutral language could be used for everyone.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)and lesbians prefer?
frazzled
(18,402 posts)How can you object to gender neutral language for all? Besides, as I've noted, the approved constructions are altogether archaic and grammatically unnecessary.
For the record, I refer to my nephew's (male) spouse as his "husband," and as my nephew-in-law. That is different than written language in a news piece, where a single construction that could refer to many types of relationships could exist.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)All gay people are asking is to be able to to the same thing, and the meaning will be the same.
Any male member of a married couple can be called "husband" and any female member, "wife." The words will be no more archaic than any other words -- in fact, less so, with the meanings extended to same-sex couples.
You say you "would" just as happily be called a spouse. But is that the term you actually use in your real life -- or do you and your spouse usually say, "my husband" or "my wife"?
cartach
(511 posts)The old man and the old lady.
Not "the ball and chain"?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Recently attended a wedding between my female cousin and her now wife. Does that make cousin a husband?
married heterosexual couple = husband and wife
married lesbian couple = wife and wife
married gay male couple = husband and husband
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Doesn't seem a difficult concept.
truthisfreedom
(23,148 posts)Ridiculously arbitrary nonsense. There are an adequate number of words in the English language to accurately describe married same-sex couples. Sheesh, AP. You suck.
Liberalagogo
(1,770 posts)AP is just going to call a male married man a husband or a female married woman a wife, regardless of the gender of who they married. This is a step forward. What's with the anger?
I always hated the word "partner". It made it sound like all gay people were in law firms.
RILib
(862 posts)Or not married. That's what it usually means for heterosexual couples.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)or should we all (safely?) presume you're one of those "don't you dare CALL it marriage" people?
krispos42
(49,445 posts)So Ronald and Luther will be called "husband and wife"? Does the AP manual tell how to determine which name goes with which adjective?
I guess it would depend entirely on who spoke up first in an interview.
"Hi, I'm Ronald, and this is my husband Luther" translates into Ronald being the wife.
What a crock of shit.
married heterosexual couple = husband and wife
married lesbian couple = wife and wife
married gay male couple = husband and husband
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Is this what the AP manual does? That's not how it looks to me.
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)maybe two, the AP revised their style book and prohibited reporters from using the terms husband and/or wife when reporting on gay married couples unless the lesbian or gay couple referred to themselves as such. That revision further required that only the term spouse or partner could be used. A huge uproar resulted and this news article reports the AP has backed down.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I am old and this is how I grew up referring to a spouse. If a gay friend wants to use "wife and wife" I don't really care. I accept it as I would with a straight couple. I wouldn't want to force my gay friend to use "spouse" or "partner" any more than I'd want her to force me to use them...so what?
krispos42
(49,445 posts)I looks to me like they're going to refer to a married couple as "husband and wife", regardless of the gender or the preferences of the people involved.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)krispos42
(49,445 posts)At least for some couples. The AP seems to be making it the rule for all of them, which seems unfair and unnecessary.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I used a guidebook of usage when I had to produce a Masters Thesis as it was required by my graduate program. My faculty adviser was pretty strict on usage herself, so I wanted to be extra careful.
This is their role. No biggie. There is flexibility. All is well. Carry on...
Liberalagogo
(1,770 posts)why are so many having a problem understanding this article?
I suppose the first sentence was written poorly. But if you READ the rest of the article, it's clear what is meant.
Blasphemer
(3,261 posts)They could use a gender-neutral term for all couples I suppose but basically, referring to any person's male spouse as their husband and any person's female spouse as their wife is a welcome change.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,013 posts)sweetloukillbot
(11,031 posts)If you call Chris and Jan spouses - which is the husband, which is the wife? Less confusion if you say Chris's wife Jan, or Chris's husband Jan, or Jan's wife Chris.
The style is person's husband or person's wife depending on the gender of the spouse.
On edit: And that is a horrible lede.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,013 posts)If the gender of the spouse is truly pertinent to the story, then it can easily be made clear in the story as an exception, or even in the headline if really necessary.
Unless it is necessary, spouse is completely sufficient.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)as "my spouse"?
I can't think of any married couple I know, gay or straight, who does that.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,013 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)referred to as spouses? How often do we hear of a straight public figure as having a "spouse"?
Heywood J
(2,515 posts)"A Fort Knox soldier and his spouse died of gunshot wounds early Friday morning at their on-post residence, ..."
"Brampton politician's spouse to appeal sex assault conviction."
"New police strategies that target youth gangs and spouse beaters"
"Planning to Retire with Your Spouse"
"Divorce attorney who helped client break into spouse's home loses ..."
"Nancy Lynchild, who died of cancer just before Christmas, will be the first homosexual military spouse to be buried in a national cemetery"
Occulus
(20,599 posts)but I assure you, the genders involved do in fact matter. I don't like the idea of my future possible husband being neutered in text, and feel the same about myself.
The real reason people are having a hard time with this is because they have a hard time with two men being called husbands. It's religiously-inspired soft bigotry.
They just can't admit to it.
Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)Skittles
(153,169 posts)that's what they should be called
Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)my career is.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)I would never subject a man to that kind of torment!
Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)benld74
(9,904 posts)Mike Nelson
(9,960 posts)..."spouse" for everyone. Simple and not obvious to bigots.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Just the way the terms have always been used, except extended now to gay couples, too.
Yes, the words are gendered, but so what? We call people "he'" or "she," not "it."
Mike Nelson
(9,960 posts)... I don't feel very strongly either way. I think "spouse" covers everyone. It doesn't highlight somebody's gender and makes everything more equal. I would like it for un-married couples, too. I don't like "lover" or "partner" for a committed couple. Maybe we can find out what the people this pertains to like, and adopt that...
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Who would have thought the mutant offspring of Saxon, French, and scriptural Latin would become unweildy in the 21st century?
Evasporque
(2,133 posts)AP announced today that describing married individuals will use new made up words arbitrarily.
teltron and geffle can be used for either gender or for someone of unknown gender.
An example of useage: "The teltron and geffle team of songwriters received a grammy today."
Anti-gay groups cried out that this is yet another example of how gay marriage is ruining traditional marriage.
alp227
(32,036 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)The idea is for same-sex marriage to be real marriage, right? No separate-but-equal.
So of course the people in the marriage are not "partners," a word that does not denote being married, and that would be a special term for people in a same sex marriage.
Why would anyone want a separate language for same sex marriage?
Married men are husbands. Married women are wives. The words tell you the gender of the person described, and that they are legally married.
rocktivity
(44,577 posts)What's wrong with using "spouse" or "married partner" unless the gender of the individual is relevant to the story?
rocktivity
randome
(34,845 posts)It's ridiculous to keep gender-specific designations in place. Partner. Spouse. For everyone.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)that AP subsequently agreed to use the expressions "his husband" and "her wife" at least 20 hours ago so I'm not quite sure what the subsequent chatter has been about.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)When I worked for a publshing company, that was our only go-to reference. All the editors and I (copy editor) used AP as our bible for reference.