WikiLeaks hearing focuses on brig commander
Source: Associated Press via Philadelphia Inquirer
DAVID DISHNEAU
Posted: Thursday, December 6, 2012, 8:19 AM
... The brig commander, Chief Warrant Officer 4 James Averhart, was set to testify Thursday. The Marine Corps' chief of corrections testified Wednesday that Averhart wrongly kept Manning on suicide watch for at least seven days of his nine months' confinement.
Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_world/20121206_ap_wikileakshearingfocusesonbrigcommander.html
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)for at least seven days.
He was reportedly held incommunicado for more than 900 days, and held incommunicado for an extended period of time without a trial.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021936364
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)Then how did House ever visit him, repeatedly? How did his father ever visit him, repeatedly? How did Manning ever meet with his lawyer, repeatedly?
Some of Manning's supporters have piled up towering mountains of bullshizz
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)"USA: Congressman Dennis Kucinich: 'Since my initial request to visit Private First Class (Pfc.) Bradley Manning on February 4, 2011, the Department of Defense (DoD) has consistently sought to frustrate any attempts to communicate with Pfc. Manning regarding his well-being. I was initially told that I would need Pfc. Mannings approval in order to meet with him. When Pfc. Manning indicated his desire to meet with me, I was belatedly informed that the meeting could only take place if it was recorded because of a Monitoring Order imposed by the militarys Special Courts-Martial Convening Authority on September 16, 2010, which was convened for the case'
"The Obama administration has blocked the UN special rapporteur on torture from visiting Bradley Manning, who is being held in solitary confinement at a military prison"
http://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/whistleblower-bradley-manning-held-incommunicado/
There are many websites which report that Manning has been held incommunicado. Any many websites which report that he has been held incommunicado for a period in excess of 900 days. But I assume that with your interest in the Manning case, you already know that.
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)determinations according to ad hominem attacks.
You do what you want.
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)back to Paul Craig Roberts, who regularly peddles his crackpot ideas through folk like Alex Jones
It is common to impose restrictions on who is allowed to visit a prisoner. The mere existence of such restrictions does not signify that a prisoner is being held incommunicado. Being held incommunicado means being held without any possibility of communication except with one's captors
But the claim, that Manning has been held incommunicado, is verifiably false
For a while, David House regularly visited Bradley Manning. Bradley Manning's father Brian Manning also repeatedly visited Bradley Manning. Bradley Manning has regularly met with his lawyer, David Coombs
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Actually, I've never heard of Paul Craig Roberts before. But then there are many names which I've never heard before.
If you have a list of the verboten statements that should not be made, and the identities of awful people who you believe made them at an earlier time, can you please share that?
Reportedly, this guy liked and said good things about German Shepards. For your benefit, I'll try to avoid doing that.
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)He was reportedly held incommunicado for more than 900 days, and held incommunicado for an extended period of time without a trial.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021936364
Following that DU link, we find your DU OP from today:
AnotherMcIntosh (4,577 posts)
Thu Dec 6, 2012, 11:10 AM
Is the Constitution "just a piece of paper"?
... How does the reported military holding of Manning incommunicado for more than 900 days, without a trial, compare with the number of days that it has held any other prisoner incommunicado? And under the conditions which Manning was held?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33224.htm ...
Following the Information Clearing House link in your OP, we land at
Bradley Manning: A Window Into The American Soul
By Paul Craig Roberts
December 05, 2012 "Information Clearing House"
... It has cost Manning 900 days held incommunicado illegally by the US government ...
But Paul Craig Roberts says nothing to support his false "900 days held incommunicado" claim
Yet, it is amazing! Upthread you pointed me to a DU OP you made earlier today, in which you link to a Paul Craig Roberts column written yesterday to support your "held incommunicado for more than 900 days" claim -- and then you have the gall to say I've never heard of Paul Craig Roberts before
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)"I've never heard of him" and "I've never heard of him before".
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)the conditions under which Manning has been held violates the Constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishments, are primarily if not exclusively liberals and progressives. Have you ever heard of Laurence Tribe?
295 people signed that letter. If Paul Craig Roberts' name is on it, I didn't see it. If Alex Jones' name is on it, I didn't see that either.
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)Of course, no one can properly object when people band together to ensure that others are treated fairly and humanely -- but the credibility of the effort depends on the accuracy of its claims
The letter in question contained some inaccurate claims, as indicated by a disclaimer in a later version:
UPDATE:Our initial draft relied on news reports in the major news outlets. Comments we received since then lead us to think that two facts may be overstated in the original draft:
1. The instance of forced nudity overnight and in morning parade apparently occurred once. The continuing regime apparently commands removal of Pvt. Manning's clothes and his wearing a "smock" at night.
2. The shackling apparently occurs when Private Manning is moved from his cell to the exercise room, but not while walking during the one hour of exercise.
http://web.archive.org/web/20110409205745/http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/03/statement-on-private-mannings-detention.html
This (untrue) claim, that Manning was stripped naked every night and forced to stand naked for morning parade every morning, was widely circulated in the spring of 2011 and then regularly re-appeared long after after it had been debunked -- sadly, yet another example of the towering mountains of bullshizz piled up by some of Manning's supporters
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)"UPDATE:Our initial draft relied on news reports in the major news outlets. Comments we received since then lead us to think that two facts may be overstated in the original draft:
1. The instance of forced nudity overnight and in morning parade apparently occurred once. The continuing regime apparently commands removal of Pvt. Manning's clothes and his wearing a "smock" at night.
2. The shackling apparently occurs when Private Manning is moved from his cell to the exercise room, but not while walking during the one hour of exercise."
Are you claiming that you discovered something? That you've discovered something new? That someone such as myself have been relying upon the initial report rather than the updated information?
That updated information did not originate with you. It was on the page that is found with the link that I provided and can be found when clicking on the link at #1, above, http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021936364
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)kpete
Mar-16-11 10:30 AM
Original message
A Statement on Private Manning's Detention: "There Is No Excuse"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=660388&mesg_id=660388
In that 16 March 2011 thread, I objected on 16 March 2011, as follows:
struggle4progress
Wed Mar-16-11 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. The statement seems to be factually inaccurate in some details -- for example:
... into the undefined future, he is forced to sleep naked ...
From yesterday's LA Times editorial:
... Manning now sleeps in "tear-proof garments" ...
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-ma...
Factual sloppiness destroys credibility. A coupla lawyers at Harvard and Yale oughta know that
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=660388&mesg_id=661207
I was, of course, pleased when somewhat later Ackerman corrected several of his inaccurate claims
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)before midnight on 18 March 2011. It would have been thoughtful of Ackerman to timestamp his update, but he didn't
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)By DAVID DISHNEAU
Associated Press
FORT MEADE, Md. ...
Chief Warrant Officer 4 James Averhart testified on the eighth day of a pretrial hearing for Pfc. Bradley Manning at Fort Meade, near Baltimore. Averhart and defense attorney David Coombs sparred over the meaning of the word "shall" in this military corrections regulation: "When prisoners are no longer considered to be suicide risks by a medical officer, they shall be returned to appropriate quarters."
Averhart said the regulation meant the prisoner should be removed from suicide watch "at a particular time to be determined."
"'Shall' does not mean, the way I perceive it, 'immediately', or 'right now'," he said ...
"Although the order is vague - it does say 'shall,' it does not say 'right now' or 'immediately,' sir - it still gives me the opportunity to evaluate," he said ...
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/12/06/4464686/wikileaks-hearing-focuses-on-brig.html
msongs
(67,420 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)By: Matt Bush // December 6, 2012
... Averhart acknowledged that military regulations required him to remove Manning from highly restrictive suicide watch upon a psychiatrist's recommendation. He says he didn't do so immediately, on two occasions, because of Manning's history of anxiety, depression and suicidal gestures.
The Marine Corps' chief of corrections testified Wednesday that Averhart wrongly kept Manning on suicide watch for at least seven days of his nine months' confinement.
http://wamu.org/news/12/12/06/marine_officer_concedes_rules_broken_in_bradley_mannings_confinement
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)By David Dishneau, The Associated Press
7:36 p.m. EST, December 6, 2012
... On the eighth day of the pretrial hearing at Fort Meade, Chief Warrant Officer 4 James Averhart was called to the stand by prosecutors their 10th witness in the last five days. Defense attorney David Coombs spent about five hours on a cross-examination aimed at undercutting the government's position that brig commanders believed Manning's treatment was justified to prevent self-injury.
A day earlier, the Marine Corps' chief of corrections testified that Averhart wrongly kept Manning on suicide watch for at least seven days of his nine months' confinement. A former brig supervisor denied making light of Manning's homosexuality when he referred to the soldier's underwear as "panties" in a staff memo sparked by Manning standing naked at attention one morning. Manning claims he was ordered to do so ...
Manning was held at Quantico in maximum custody from July 2010 to April 2011, when he was moved to medium-security confinement at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. While at Quantico, Manning was on either suicide watch or injury-prevention status, both involving additional security measures. Averhart and his successor rejected psychiatrists' nearly weekly recommendations to ease the restrictions that kept Manning in an 8-by-6-foot cell at least 23 hours a day.
Coombs and Averhart sparred Thursday over the meaning of the word "shall" in this military corrections regulation: "When prisoners are no longer considered to be suicide risks by a medical officer, they shall be returned to appropriate quarters" ...
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/breaking/bs-md-manning-wikileaks-20121206,0,2236356.story