'I am a Zionist,' says Biden at Hanukkah event, promises continued military assistance to Israel

[catsudon]

Source: timesofisrael

US President Joe Biden is hosting a White House reception tonight to mark Hanukkah, celebrating the festival of lights as he has continued to denounce rising antisemitism in the US and abroad amid the Israel-Hamas war.

Read more: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/biden-were-there-no-israel-there-wouldnt-be-a-jew-in-the-world-who-is-safe/

---

Very proud for my president for stating this.

All his statement means is Israel should exist as a Jewish state. This is as outlandish statement as Saudi Arabia or Iran or Pakistan should exist. Nobody seems to question the right of Muslim/Arab states to exist, yet a Jewish state is controversial.

[Deep State Witch]

1. Well, He Just Lost the Muslim Vote

With that one statement.

[Midwestern Democrat]

15. It certainly seems like Biden could have affirmed his support for Israel without using such a provocative phrase. NT

[yardwork]

34. Support for Israel IS Zionism

They are one and the same.

There appears to be widespread misunderstanding of the term Zionism.

[LeftInTX]

35. He shouldn't have used a term that is subject to widespread interpretation

[yardwork]

36. Um, no. We can only dumb down the country so far.

If a bunch of people decide that the color "blue" means red, the president is not at fault if he says the sky is blue.

Zionism means support for Israel's existence. People who've allowed TikTok to convince them otherwise need to look up the term instead of asking everybody else to change.

[LeftInTX]

40. Let's teach it in school then. I never learned it in school

Well, I barely learned anything about the Middle East in school.
I learned about the creation of Israel at the end of WWII by the UN and that is all I learned about the Middle East. Other wise, nada, zip. Place basically didn't exist...

Except we did learn about Egypt and Hammurabi's code in ancient history of Western Civ, but I don't think that counts.

[yardwork]

44. I know, right? Same here.

I started a thread on Zionism with the ADL definition.

[sarisataka]

41. Is it more or less provocative

Than "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free"?

[Bixtas]

53. He already had it lost

In fact.

[Autumn]

2. Stop it Joe. Read the damn room, and not just the one you are in.

Israel has every right to exist. As does Palestine.

[Hieronymus Phact]

7. FYI

Your statement makes you a Zionist also.

[Autumn]

12. And what does saying "Palestine has every right to be a state" make me?

I'm confused. I've been called anti-Semitic and a Hamas supporter for saying that. However the problem I have is Joe has lost Michigan. That was clear this weekend. He loses in 2024 my country is fucked six ways to Sunday.

[Hieronymus Phact]

14. it makes you a supporter of a Palestinean state.

It's not incompatible with Zionism in any way. Unless you think that Palestinian state should replace Israel and not live next to it.

[yardwork]

28. The poster is correct. You just affirmed a commitment to Zionism.

"Israel has every right to exist" = Zionism. Every Zionist I know also believes that Palestine has a right to exist.

It's like feminism. The right wing tries to cast feminism as a hatred of men, but feminists know that feminism means equal rights for everybody, men and women.

[IronLionZion]

3. The issue is what to do about the non-Jewish people there

Palestinian people would like a chance at life and citizenship. Resolve that in a fair way and things should be more peaceful in the future.

[OilemFirchen]

5. The non-Jewish people where?

IIRC, roughly 25% of Israel's population in non-Jewish, the majority of whom are Palestinian, including a sizable proportion who are citizens. Last I checked, I believe ten serve in the Knesset.

Happy to be corrected on this, if need be.

[IronLionZion]

13. Only if you exclude Gaza, West Bank, and right of return for other Palestinians

millions of whom are in Jordan

[OilemFirchen]

19. Gaza and the West Bank are not part of Israel.

BTW, Jordan - which would be more likely to have a "right of return" than Israel - is, at best, ambivalent about Palestinian emigres from the Occupied Territories. They are most, if not all, confined to a few refugee camps and denied citizenship.

Again, happy to be corrected if I am in error.

[IronLionZion]

24. Jordan has taken in millions of refugees and given most of them full Jordanian citizenship

Queen Rania, Queen Alia, and Princess Firyal are Palestinian-Jordanians.

Living through Trump should be a reminder to all DUers the importance of citizenship and national identity in determining a person's options in life.

The Palestinian people in the area fled to Gaza and West Bank to escape wars back in the day and got stuck there when the wars ended. Those territories have changed hands a few times but Israel has held them since 1967 as occupied territories. The people there don't have Israeli citizenship unless they were born in Israeli territory before those wars. Gaza is by far one of the worst places in the world to be born. They have fewer opportunities than people who hold citizenship of any country. The Palestinian Authority passport can offer some limited travel options but it isn't citizenship.

[OilemFirchen]

29. HAD taken them in. HAD given them citizenship.

It IS where the vast majority of refugees settled. It CONTINUES TO BE the home of most modern Palestinians' ancestors.

Jordan doesn't prohibit immigration. Why isn't Jordan allowing refugees NOW? What about THEIR natural "right of return"?

[prodigitalson]

25. You are absolutely right they aren't part of Israel, which is why the Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal

[OilemFirchen]

26. Not sure of your point, but I agree. (n/t)

[prodigitalson]

27. ok...glad to hear it.

[IronLionZion]

61. Israel wants the land in the West Bank

which is why Netanyahu and similar RW politicians resist any 2 state solution. They don't want the people who live there, just the land.

[moniss]

17. The nation members of the UN

need to find some way of a different approach to having the body be able to take more serious steps to keep to it's commitments to also resolve the issues of compensation and right of return. By always basically trying to dodge those issues for peace plan after conference after peace plan for 75 years it has left anybody the reasonable conclusion that when the UN/US etc. make promises that it's just words like grains of sand in the desert. If those promised items are no longer to be on the table then just say so.

But until then those who were promised that the homes, businesses and land that was given up would receive compensation have a right to expect the ones who set this in motion so many decades ago and control the situation to make good on their promise. It is long past time to just keep telling people "it will be done some day but just go sit in the refugee camp and we'll let you know." Generations have come and gone and still nothing on those items. It is useless for the purposes of peace to hold out those things and string people along. It is like hearing the words "2 state solution". What little is left now raises viability questions and that means a possibly shaky stability as well and that doesn't bode well for peace either.

The time for the UN to have really resolved this was back in the late '40's/early '50's with a more assertive approach but it didn't happen. Assertiveness towards all parties including the US and Arab state supporters was called for but sadly never happened.

[OilemFirchen]

21. As above, why is the onus on Israel?

Why is Jordan, the logical destination for displaced Palestinians, not treated with the same disapprobation?

[IronLionZion]

31. See MAGA reaction to immigration

since the USA is the logical destination for displaced people from south of the US border.

About half the people in Jordan are of Palestinian origin. They've taken more refugees than anyone else by millions.

[moniss]

59. You've already got very large refugee camps that

have been there for many years and in Lebanon also. So it is incorrect to think they haven't taken in refugees and displaced people. As far as any onus Israel should have been told by the UN from the beginning that either an agreement was reached by a date certain or one would be imposed. The subjects of compensation and right of return that were promised to the Palestinians that they would be negotiated don't just go away because an Arab state starts lobbing shells etc. The entire sum of the territories and the outstanding issues are under the disposition of the UN and not Israel alone as it sees fit although they do behave that way. That is also something that should not be allowed but the UN was neutered by the US from the beginning of it's existence.

Actually the whole thing could have been handled in a more orderly fashion somewhat if the British hadn't just turned tail and ran. The Mandate could have been extended by agreement so that there was a more effective peacekeeping force in place. There would have been less rapid forced displacement and a more orderly process. As it was massive ethnic cleansing took place and people lost assets while others grabbed those assets. Plain and simple. Prior to 1948 it was understood there would be some displacement and compensation and right of return were promised. As soon as Independence was declared everybody who got the benefit threw the middle finger at the ones who were supposed to be compensated and have some right of return.

[sarisataka]

4. I am glad he said it so clearly

As there are many who disagree with Israel's right to exist.

A permanent resolution will require a Palestinian state but Hamas is an insurmountable obstacle to a two state solution.

[Autumn]

6. The obstacle to a two state solution is Netanyahu. He has kept Hamas in power to make sure

it didn't happen. So how are you going to get that two state solution that Trumps buddy and Hamas are both dead set against?

[sarisataka]

9. Apologies for not mentioning Netanyahu

and Likud. They are also obstacles but I am hopeful they will soon be removed by Israelis at the next election.

[AnrothElf]

16. The difference being, of course, that removing Netanyahu can be done via democratic processes...

Hamas cannot.

When will Gazans hold another election? Where are the anti-Hamas protests? Why, in the last 17 years of Hamas "rule", has no opposition party emerged to challenge their power in Gaza?

Why were non-Hamas Palestinians holding hostages for Hamas? And raping them?

Could it be because... and this might seem like a stretch to you... the average Gazan actually SUPPORTS Hamas?

Crazy talk, I know.

[Autumn]

18. Depends on what average is.

Just 20 percent of respondents selected Hamas as their preferred party, slightly less than the proportion who favored Fatah (30 percent), the party that is led by Abbas and that governs the West Bank. Hamas's popularity in Gaza has slipped as well, falling from 34 percent support in the 2021 survey.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas#:~:text=Just%2027%20percent%20of%20respondents,support%20in%20the%202021%20survey.


But that number may go up with all the deaths from the bombing of civilian areas. Things like that seem to create more radicals.

[AnrothElf]

50. So if that's accurate, and only 20% of Gazans support Hamas...

Then when will they be voted out of power?

When will Hamas hold an election so that they can be swept from power?

Crickets?

Then when will Gazans protest Hamas? When will we see international protests against Hamas? Thousands in the street protesting Hamas, instead of Israel and The Great Satan?

Again... I don't expect serious answers, because the answers are obvious.

[Autumn]

51. Do the Palestinians get to decide if they want to hold elections? Hint:

No

https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/84509

[AnrothElf]

55. Correct. Because they don't have a democracy.

They don't even have a government. They have a terrorist organization stealing their wealth and spending it on rockets to shoot at Israel, or just sending it out of Gaza to enrich their Islamofascist cronies.

Remember the huge uprising during the Arab Spring, when Palestinians in Gaza rioted against their Hamas overlords and the PA?

Yeah... me neither.

It's hard not to draw the conclusion that the average Gazan doesn't give a fuck about democracy, or having a stable government. It's hard not to draw the reasonable conclusion that the average Gazan wants to destroy Israel "from the river to the sea".

Does that mean Israel should kill all their women and children? No, obviously.

But those in the best position to overthrow Hamas are the "average Gazans", and... 17 years on... CRICKETS.

[Autumn]

57. I will only read your headline. So you knew the answer to the question you asked me?

When will Hamas hold an election so that they can be swept from power?

Crickets?

There a word for that.

[AnrothElf]

58. Yeah... it's called a "rhetorical question".

I'm sorry... Did you think I was asking for your "expertise"?

[agingdem]

23. not crazy talk...

Gazans shelter Hamas/serve as human shields/allow Hamas to stockpile their cache of weapons of war in tunnels under schools, hospitals, and mosques/allow Hamas leadership to divert their humanitarian aid into Hamas pockets while they live in poverty...

Gazans cheered the barbaric massacre of beheaded babies, tortured and dismembered children/parents, raped and mutilated women, the elderly/disabled set on fire, slaughtered Israelis enjoying a music festival, children torn from their families and held captive...the Palestinians of Gaza enable Hamas, and in doing so they are not "victims", they are accomplices...

Thank you President Joe Biden!

[Mosby]

39. Palestinians have been rejecting peace offers since before Bibi was born.

Nt

[Autumn]

42. That doesn't change the fact Netanyahu kept Hamas in power because a two state

solution was what neither he nor Hamas wanted. You will notice I included Hamas in my other post you responded to.

[Mosby]

46. No he didn't.

Please don't post the article from Tal, it doesn't prove anything.

Eta yall should really think through this new narrative, because what Bibi did was let aid money into Gaza that Hamas mostly stole. Should he have starved out Hamas and Gazans?

[Autumn]

47. Yes he did. He nor Hamas wanted a two state solution. He openly admitted that.

https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12#:~:text=Israeli%20officials%20are%20facing%20backlash,Hamas%20to%20remain%20in%20power.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035

I can list a dozen more but that would be a waste of time.

[Mosby]

48. Ok

So do you think the Oct 7th massacre was Netanyahu’s fault basically?

[Autumn]

49. It was an intelligence failure. Perhaps along the lines of the August 6, 2001 PDF.

In plain English, intelligence that was ignored. Take it any way you want it.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israeli-officials-repeatedly-dismissed-warning-signs-before-hamas-attack-report-claims#:~:text=The%20attack%20was%20preceded%20by,but%20those%20warnings%20were%20dismissd.

The attack was preceded by one thing Hamas was known for, launching a barrage of rockets from Gaza into Israel. In the days that followed October 7, there were reports that low-level analysts had reported seeing Hamas agents rehearsing some parts of this attack, but those warnings were dismissed.

But according to a new report from The New York Times, Israeli intelligence had obtained more than a year ago a 40-page document detailing virtually the exact attack plan that Hamas executed on October 7.

[AnrothElf]

52. No question there was an intelligence failure...

But it's still victim-blaming in a desperate bid for an anti-Israel narrative.

"Ralph's an asshole, and his doorbell camera was pointed the wrong way, and he didn't notice the gang-rapists dismantling the sliding glass door on his backdoor patio. Therefore it's Ralph's fault that his wife and children were raped in front of him, and then he was murdered and his wife was taken hostage, where she would continue to be raped for months."

See what I mean?

Not a good narrative. I reject it.

[Autumn]

54. Reject whatever you want, you're free to do so. I do not support what Israel is doing.

And I will not support it. Killing innocent people and children in their attempt to kill Hamas is wrong. There must be a better way.

[AnrothElf]

56. Point stands. You wanna ceasefire? Gotta get Hamas to cease firing.

A ceasefire is like a "cease-fuck". It doesn't work if only one side is saying "No!" At that point it's just a rape.

Much like Hamas did on Oct. 7.

[Bixtas]

8. What's the context?

I’d like to see he wasn’t taken out of context

[TheProle]

10. Context:

"As I said after the [Oct.7] attack, my commitment to the safety of the Jewish people, and the security of Israel, its right to exist as an independent Jewish state, is unshakeable.

“Were there no Israel, there wouldn’t be a Jew in the world who is safe,” says the president, to loud applause.

“The warmth and connection I feel to the Jewish community is unquestionable.” Biden added that “I ran into trouble and criticism when I said a few years ago that you don’t have to be Jewish to be a Zionist, and I am a Zionist.”

[Sal_NV]

11. I wonder if Pres. Biden got his inspiration from Pres. Kennedy?

[HUAJIAO]

20. A really dumb thing to say. Lordy!

[yardwork]

30. Israel is our ally. Zionism means a commitment to Israel's existence.

A lot of people don't seem to understand the meaning of Zionism. It means a commitment to allowing Israel to exist.

[Delphinus]

32. I've heard people

accused of being a Christian Zionist - what does that mean? That a Christian is all for Israel's existence? Or something totally different?

[yardwork]

33. I don't know.

[LeftInTX]

37. John Hagee

[yardwork]

38. I posted a thread on Zionism here a few minutes ago.

The ADL notes that anybody can be a Zionist, as long as they acknowledge Israel's right to exist.

[LeftInTX]

43. Here is an article from Wikipedia about Christian Zionism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism

Christian Zionism is an ideology that, in a Christian context, espouses the return of the Jewish people to the Holy Land. Likewise, it holds that the founding of the State of Israel in 1948 was in accordance with Bible prophecy: that the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Levant — the eschatological "Gathering of Israel" — is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.[1][2] The term began to be used in the mid-20th century, in place of Christian restorationism, as proponents of the ideology rallied behind Zionists in support of a Jewish national homeland.[3][4]
_______________


Anyway, Zionism is a term that is subject to interpretation.

[yardwork]

45. Oh, the End Timers!!

The people who believe that Israel must be created, then destroyed, to fulfill the Second Coming of Christ.

This is what I've dubbed the evangelicals' "transactional" relationship with Israel.

Biden didn't say he was a " Christian Zionist."

[LetMyPeopleVote]

22. I am so glad that President Biden is our POTUS

Link to tweet

[Behind the Aegis]

60. Me too.