Gaza rocket fire kills Israelis
Source: BBC
1 hour ago
Three people have been killed as rockets fired from Gaza struck southern Israel, amid escalating violence.
They died when a four-storey building in the town of Kiryat Malachi was hit.
It marks the first Israeli fatalities since Israel killed Hamas' military chief in Gaza on Wednesday.
Fifteen Palestinians, mainly militants but also children, have reportedly been killed in the continuing Israeli operation. About 200 rockets have been fired into Israel, the army says.
Read more: http://bbc.co.uk/news/world-20336811
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loudsue
(14,087 posts)They're stirring things up just to start a war. I wish Obama would let them hang out to dry.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)They sent off about 100 before Israel retaliated and killed the Hamas military chief.
How are you arriving at the conclusion that Israel is the instigator here?
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)thanks. 
earthside
(6,960 posts)... locked-up in an area of only 140 square miles, with no resources and under constant surveillance and control of a 'foreign' power.
Who started what?
Prisoner revolt and the guards wonder what provoked it.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)I mean, who wouldnt love that situation?
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Translation: Deliberate starvation.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)We all know the debate would be much different in this country.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Not sure where you get your information from.
dubient
(34 posts)the rocket attacks were retaliation for the murder of a 23 year old mentally disabled man and a 13 year old boy in the week proceeding?
It looks like a Operation Cast Lead redux to me.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Including the infant son of a BBC cameraman. Not just the Hamas military chief.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/405243/20121115/hamas-gaza-israel-jabari-11-month-bbc.htm
Hearing "they started it" from both sides is getting tired after 60 years.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oh but never mind that it's just self defense right?
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Israel and the pre-Israel Zionists started this mess many decades ago. Israel makes sure the conflict never stops.
Israel murders Palestinians all of the time. Israel keeps them imprisoned. We all know what Americans would do if put under the same circumstances as the Palestinians. It wouldn't be pretty. Unfortunately, many racists in the US love Israel. It doesn't serve the US and the world well.
King_David
(14,851 posts)If rockets were raining daily on San Diego or Buffalo or Boston, Canada and Mexico would be flattened 1 day later.
Their would be no restraint.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Because I and many here support Israel, that makes us racists? My wife has family in Israel, are they racists?
Take your racist comments and kindly place them where they belong.
PerceptionManagement
(464 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Too many powerful congresscritters who won't allow that to happen, Sen. Feinstein, Sen. Schumer, VP Biden, Sen. Reid, Sen. Lautengerg, and that's not counting the R's that would demand that Pres. Obama back Israel, and lest we forget, the House is R controlled and I suspect a wide margin of Americans would demand that we back Israel, and count me in as a supporter of Israel.
Israel has the absolute right to defend itself, it was Hamas who started firing the rockets first.
I saw a post in a different thread yesterday that described these rockets as bottle rockets and Israel shouldn't retaliate, I guess this puts to bed about these rockets being overrated bottle rockets.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oh it also targeted a pregnant woman and a child
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)Targeted or hit by accident while striking near by Hamas personal?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I forgot only Palestinians 'target' Israeli civilians so sorry what ever was I thinking 
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)It sounds like they are shelling entire neighborhoods.
backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)Hamas firing rockets into Isreal is really an attack on Palestine?
Wow.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)in some Bizzaro world that some of these posters live in
some people will always hate Israel no matter what her leaders do
loudsue
(14,087 posts)that I hate. Netanyahu is a trouble maker who hates Obama. He backed Rmoney so he could get into a war with Iran, which is his stated goal.
So he's over there being a bully, stirring things up. Netanyahu needs to be GONE from power, so Israel can get back into balance.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)I'm sure you can provide links for that claim
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I would hope not, but I feel compelled to ask, since alternate realities occasionally appear when discussing this topic.
Now. Do you know what a bomb does? It explodes. An explosion creates a concussive wave; basically the energy released in the explosion is transferred to the surrounding air, which expands very rapidly and very forcefully. This concussive wave carries with it a cloud of shrapnel, both from the bomb casing and the stuff the concussive wave creates and picks up. At the center of the explosion you have the fireball that caused the explosion, a rapid chemical reaction that creates intense heat, setting the surrounding material on fire.
As you may have guessed, concussive forces, shrapnel, and fire have a very deleterious effect on the bodies of human beings (and pretty much everything else that gets in their way, frankly.) This is why they are a favored weapon of both terrorists and regular militaries the world over.
If it were not evident enough, a spherical wall of air carrying high-velocity sharp things with a big fireball at the center is a pretty indiscriminate thing. It doesn't give you a pass if you are young or old, man or woman, Jew or Arab. It's going to hurt, and very possibly kill you just because you are made of meat and sticks of calcium.
When you use weapons like that, in a place like this, in a volume that can be called "massive":
You are knowingly writing off non-targets as "expendables," people who get to die for the crime of proximity.
"Targeting" doesn't really matter much when you are using a weapon that indiscriminately sweeps up non-targets in its killing power.
backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)all those rockets fired into Isreal are targetting children?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)If we can agree that the use of indiscriminate weapons amounts to targeting the innocent, there's still hope 
plethoro
(594 posts)of mideastern nations against Israel, the US will have to consider whether backing Israel right now is worth it. And, if the US is slipping into the fourth stage of a precursor to 3rd world nation status as Thom Harmann suggests, does the US want be part of a new evolving friendship or stay in the Pariahhood (sic).
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)for convenience? Sorry, but the American people, along with powerful members of congress won't let it happen despite what you may wish for.
Unfuckingbelieveable.
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)and you know damn good and well that if the Israelis think they're going to be defeated, what option does that leave open to them?
The nuclear option which they will use with millions of more deaths, destruction of the world economy, nuclear fallout, maybe Russia launching against Israel, the US retaliating.
You sure you want to go down that road?
The congress and the american people will never allow this by abandoning Israel despite how you and a small minority feel about Israel.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Israel is in no danger whatsoever of being "genocided." To the contrary, as you note, it is the Israelis who are the ones able to causes "millions of more deaths" with their nuclear arsenal.
Israel needs to reach a comprehensive and just peace settlement with the Palestinians. It seems to have little interest in that.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)but how long do you think it would take for the nations hostile to Israel to attack if they knew that the US had withdrawn support?
It's all moot anyway, the congress and the american people won't let it happen, even VP Biden is a strong supporter of Israel.
Hutzpa
(11,461 posts)your comment that Israel will be genocides by Palestine exposes your bias, in a way you're not about finding solutions, but to continue the oppression of an entire nation just because they happen to be against their land being unnecessarily claimed.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)I'm biased because I have relatives living in Israel, you're biased against Israel because of what you percieve as injustise's on Israel's part. There's plenty of blame to go around, my problem is those here who would just abandon Israel.
And you would be wrong, I'm all for finding an equitable solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
Hutzpa
(11,461 posts)I AM NOT BIAS AGAINST ISRAEL, I also is looking for a better solution to this mess that has been ongoing for over 60 years, we can all see who the aggressors are, just look around, I am beginning to feel the underlying efforts here is that since Israel could not achieve their goal of starting a war with Iran, they had to show the U.S President who is in charge by instigating chaos, attacking an handicapped man with a child is exactly how you flair up an unstable peace knowing it will cause uproar once people finds out what happened.
It will also create the environment for the Palestinians to retaliate, which is as expected happened.
Anyone that does not see what Israel are doing is completely ignorant of the facts or is being willfully dishonest in their assumptions. Willful dishonesty does not solve the problem except you're not looking for peace, then yes, it serves the purpose of which you intended. Parties that want peace do not go out looking to kill people just to prove a point.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)How about Hezbollah? Killing or trying to kill innocent civilians.
I agree that a just peace needs to be implemented, I'm not arguing about that.
My problem is when you have people here saying we should abandon Israel and basically leave them on their own in a hostile geographical area. That's something I will never do.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)the Israeli leadership, Netanyahu...or Dubya II, needs a swift kick in the pants from the USA.
Yeah, I know that will not happen since the USA seemingly is the dog that Israel wags.
I don't like Palestinian rockets, but I also don't like targeted Israeli assassinations.
MisterScruffles
(76 posts)"I don't like Palestinian rockets, but I also don't like targeted Israeli assassinations."
Would you apply the same courtesy to Bin Laden?
"I don't like 9/11, but I also don't like targeted US assassinations."
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)is that some find absolutely no fault with Israeli aggression and assassination: even when it spills over into the deaths of innocents.
"Yes, but Israel is only defending itself", some will say. No. Not when they hold the Gazan population in blockade. Not when they turn a blind eye to illegal Israeli settlements or when they shoot at children and then are exonerated of wrongdoing.
Israel isn't clean in this crapshoot at all.
So, by contrast I find both the actions of the Israelis and Palestinians to be reprehensible.
MisterScruffles
(76 posts)So Israel killing terrorist leaders and hitting the civilians they use as human shields is equal to Hamas deliberately putting civilians in the line of fire? Which side uses children as suicide bombs? Which side has said that they want to genocide every Jew?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)MisterScruffles
(76 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Nice try.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)A lot of people on the right used that argument back then to continue punitive measures against blacks while pointing to the violent actions of black SA rebels. Didn't happen and today that position is an embarrassing footnote for conservative history on international policy.
Don't consider DUers lack of support of Israel policies as some kind of wish for military defeat and/or genocide.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)that Pres. Obama will never abandon the Israeli people. He may have differences with Nety, but he won't just throw Israel away.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)It is a straw man argument of the right to excuse racist policies.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)with Mr. Hitler, the Intl. community abandoned them then. How about the genocide going on in Africa? What has the Intl. community done about that?
Look, I believe you when you say that the Intl. community wouldn't let that happen, not because of the love for Jews, but because the ME has something the world wants, OIL.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)...is the "there can't be equality because the ethnicity that gains rights will suddenly use them to wipe out/oppress the other one" is not a good one. Used many times and proven false every time.
It's almost as bad as "until *insert ever-shifting ambiguous ultimatum here* is met, there can be no peace"
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)My relatives in Israel are actually on my wifes side of the family, that's why we're so passionate on the security of Israel.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)
mallard
(569 posts).... but apparently only for the one, more aggressive side. We don't often see American people and Congress used in the same breath any more, either. Our government may back Israel no matter what, but notions that the general public do too are quite doubtful. People are sick of the obligatory involvement on behalf of a racist state.
but the majority of americans do support Israel, and take your racist state comment and place it where it belongs. My wife has family living in Tel Aviv and there lives are in danger so I and her are very supportive of Israel.
Not much general public support for Israel?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/146408/Americans-Maintain-Broad-Support-Israel.aspx
Kinda blows your statement apart.
mallard
(569 posts)As to who actually manages the polls, it seems quite obvious they have results in mind. They don't ask: how do you feel about AIPAC influence in Washington?
The important thing is that you feel dignified about assuming the moral high ground in the never-ending conflict, not what happens to whoever even questions that assumption. The tally of casualties will always indicate your 'advantages'.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)Another poster in this thread summed it up pretty well. Over a million people crammed into a very small area, to the point where it's one of the (if not the) most densely populated area on the planet. Then you place a blockade around them, rain bombs down on them, etc.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)there's no genocide of Palestinians going on here, it's a tit for tat conflict.
There needs to be a comprehensive, equitable peace treaty here, but both sides don't seem to want to see it happen, especially Hamas and Hezbollah.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)"Genocide" is the endeavor to cause the total annihilation of a particular group. It's a policy of extermination, literal, actual extermination, with the intent that the victims will be expunged from the human race.
Even at the worst, this is thankfully not something Israel has attempted. Israel has - and is - performing ethnic cleansing within Jerusalem and the West Bank, though it's relatively bloodless (compared to the ethnic cleansing of Albanians in Serbia, or the attempts in Sri Lanka and other places). Ethnic cleansing is a different thing from genocide, however.
In Gaza... I'm not sure exactly what you'd call it, I'm not sure if there's actual precedent to draw a name for it from. But it's not the Israeli's goal to exterminate the people of Gaza.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)the Palestinians do not have the capability for genocide and then throwing nuclear war into the mix? wow rather extreme IMO
plethoro
(594 posts)more damage to the United States than many of its enemies. But, then, I certainly will abide by what all those reputable congress-critters decide. I understand how important False Flags can be when Helgian Dialectics need to be employed.
brentspeak
(18,290 posts)Not clear what involvement you think we should play in their conflict.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)at peace talks and work out a fair and equitable peace treaty and make sure that the other nations in the ME that are hostile to Israel know that any military attack on Israel will be met with overwhelming military force.
brentspeak
(18,290 posts)Because the US certainly won't be fighting Israel's battles for them.
King_David
(14,851 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)We've never fought their battles, we've made sure that they've been resupplied, rightly so.
Why would I join the IDF? I've already served in the US military.
Ian David
(69,059 posts)Derp!
demlion
(61 posts)me different
Larkspur
(12,804 posts)I mean bias in favor of Israel.
The Missing Headlines
Below are news items largely going unreported by US media, which are consistently Israeli-centric in their coverage. The main bureaus for CNN, AP, Time, etc. are located in Israel and are often staffed by Israelis. Many US journalists have ties to Israel: the son of the NY Times bureau chief is in the Israeli army; "pundit" Jeffrey Goldberg served in the Israeli military; Wolf Blitzer worked for the Israel Lobby. For more information on media coverage see our Media Bias section.
Gaza boy killed by Israel dreamed of becoming soccer player
Middle East Children Alliance - Hamid Younis Abu Daqqa, 13, always wore his Real Madrid shirt when he played soccer with his friends. He died wearing the same shirt, killed by Israeli forces before the second half of a game with friends could be finished. His father said Hamid would imitate Real Madrid star Ronaldo while playing in front of his Gaza home.
Israel To Illegally Seize Palestinian Lands Near Bethlehem
IMEMC - Under the pretext of “military considerations”, the Israeli army informed Palestinian residents of al-Fordaes village, near the West Bank city of Bethlehem, that it intends to seize large areas of their lands in al-Oqban area, the Palestine News Network (PNN) reported.
Israel plans to build 1,213 new illegal settlement homes on Palestinian land
Ma'an News - PLO leader Hanan Ashrawi on Tuesday condemned reported plans for Israel to construct new settlement units in occupied East Jerusalem and in Ariel in the West Bank. The Israel Land Administration on Monday published notices inviting bids from contractors to build on plots in Ramot and Pisgat Zeev, urban settlements that Israel has declared part of Jerusalem.
Israeli soldier that shot 10-year-old Palestinian in the head acquitted by courts
IMEMC - An Israeli Court in Lod acquitted Tuesday an Israeli soldier who shot and killed a Palestinian child during a nonviolent protest against the Annexation Wall in Ni’lin village, near the central West Bank city of Ramallah, in July 2008. The soldier admitted to firing two rounds of live ammunition at the child, 10-year-old Ahmad Mousa, leading to his death.Sounds like this IDF soldier empathizes with US General Sherman who is quoted as saying that the only good Indian is a dead one.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)You can view the live stream and to the right watch some of his earlier broadcasts. Was glued to it for hours yesterday, he is back on today.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Oppress a nation for decades, expect some rockets sometimes.
plethoro
(594 posts)ddddddd
Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #11)
Post removed
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)then they should be able to vote representatives into the Israeli Knesset, which they can't. Therefore they have no representation in the government that has ultimate authority over them. I hope they do someday because, you know, freedom and democracy and all that.
PS - Right now they are subjects, not citizens. The difference being explained above.
CrawlingChaos
(1,893 posts)Whereas the majority of Israelis are Polish, German and Russian. You're spewing pure propaganda and your links are a joke.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)Really?
So these people were NOT living there all this time?
So there was no United Nations plan to divide Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab (Palestinian) state?
mrf901
(49 posts)in 1988
condoleeza
(814 posts)I'm not Jewish, am married to a non-religious jewish man, have spent endless hours of my life trying to understand this and this morning one of my friends who lived in Israel for many years, whose children live in Tel Aviv now, used the word Apartheid in her response to my email to her today.
I've never been able to make sense of this "war". Seems similar in many ways to the racial issues in our own shameful US history. It's just so sad that so much human life and money is being wasted for something that only the rational ones apparently want solved. The people who live there work with the Palestinian people, they're friends.
This is part of an email that was forwarded to me by a friend whose son, a teacher in Tel Aviv, wrote to her today:
-------------------------
Israel is safe… any danger that there is, is foreseeable and localized. If you are planning on coming to Israel, do not be afraid at all. The situation is containable.
There are a lot of “facts” and numbers being put online and on the media right now. I wanted to share some facts of my own:
The fact that in Ramle I tutor Arabs and they respect me as one of their own even though I am a Jew.
The fact that when I go to the Shuk (market) here in Israel I buy food from Jews and Arabs alike working and living on the same street.
The fact that the Arabic teacher at the Jewish elementary school I work at spends morning after morning working for the benefit of Jewish children.
The fact that an Arab woman here calls me "your Israeli mother"
The fact that Arabic and Hebrew are on every street sign.
The fact that there is a church a synagogue and a mosque on the same street corner here.
The fact that on Yom Kippur (Jewish New Year) all the Arab kids ride bikes down the street and help their neighbors build Jewish sukkahs (dwellings).
The fact that on Muslim weddings my entire city (my Jewish city) is filled with life and music.
And the fact that we are only as divided as we let the media and politicians convince us that we are.
Let’s remember the victims. Let’s refuse to hate.
----------------------
We now have the iconic photo of the BBC Journalist whose 11 month old son died and I'm sure Bibi is loving this symbol of the evil Palestinians.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)promoting Nazi levels of hatred, lies and deceit - If they were talking about any other people other than an Arab people - primarily (but not totally) a Muslim people ad in this case the long suffering Palestinian people suffering in their own homeland - if we were talking about anyone else - someone who said such terrible things or applauded someone else saying such terrible things - we would all know that they were right-trolls and they would IMMEDIATELY be banned from this forum forever. But since we are talking about Arabs who are primarily Muslim and we are talking specifically about Palestinians - this Nazi like comment will be treated like just another point of view. Why doesn't the admin of DU treat all racism and hate speech the same? Why?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And since they don't have to actually stand beside their protection of bigotry, there's no cost for them to do so.
byeya
(2,842 posts)stop vetoing the UN actions that favor the Palestinians, at a minimum.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)
johnq45
(33 posts)work on their people skills and learn to get along with their neighbors!
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)No one tops Bibi...
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)
nolabels
(13,133 posts)The funny thing with these kind of people is if you give them enough rope.........
4bucksagallon
(975 posts)it completely blows my mind. After they tried to interfere in our elections especially. Israel is no friend of America.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What a touching display from the community here in response to this post about Israeli civilians murdered by Palestinian rocket attacks.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)In fact, going back over to the I/P forum, where azurnoir posted about their deaths, you responded... by niggling over the specific time of a cease-fire.
Why is it that you shake your finger at others for not doing what you yourself refuse to do?
(It's a rhetorical question; we all know why )
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's absolutely tragic how many innocent Palestinians have been killed - especially the disturbingly high number of children.
Some of the stories are particularly heartbreaking.
There are large numbers of threads about the many Palestinians who have been killed over the years (a number much larger than Israelis). I've commented on some - and started others.
This rare thread about the comparably rare deaths of Israelis by Palestinian rocket fire, however, seems to not have a lot of people expressing sympathy for the dead - which is what I was commenting on sarcastically.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)it must be truly heart-rending for you. Especially the disturbingly high number of children killed. Why up 'til now, your stoic exterior would have led me to believe that you were simply uncaring, indifferent towards those dead Palestinian children. After all, they haven't merited a single mention from you, not a peep, not so much as a sniffle. But now, now I know it's just a hard exterior to keep the depths of your grief from the prying eyes of a cold world, Oberliner.
It's still disappointing though, that a man with such depth of emotion for the innocents slain, would condemn others for their own lack of emotional display. it almost creates the illusion that you think one group of innocents killed is different, more valuable, than another.
You should rest, Oberliner, before that iron facade breaks and your wrenching sobs deafen us all with the power of the true sorrow you hide so deep within.
cali
(114,904 posts)You are badly distorting the poster's position and essential character. I have interacted with Oberliner and read his posts for years. I certainly don't always or even basically agree with him, but he is not simply uncaring and he has expressed his concern for Palestinian civilians numerous times. You are just wrong.
Your post is nasty, ignorant and ugly.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)What you've been reading for years is beyond my ken. All I see is what's getting posted now. And what I see amounts to utter indifference at best.
Maybe it'll change.
cali
(114,904 posts)Response to cali (Reply #97)
Scootaloo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Yours does not invalidate mine, nor does mine invalidate yours. What I'm seeing now is apparently different from what you remember seeing then.
Like I said. Maybe it'll change, and I'll get to see Paleoberliner like you do at some point. Until then, I'm afraid your assurances aren't terribly assuring.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Your voice is much needed in the I/P forum.
All the best!
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)" Can't people just get along."
