Vatican digs in after gay marriage advances

[Bozita]

Source: AP

November 10, 2012 at 12:05 pm
Vatican digs in after gay marriage advances
By Associated Press


Vatican City — The Vatican is digging in after gay marriage initiatives scored big wins this week in the U.S. and Europe, vowing to never stop insisting that marriage can only be between a man and a woman.

In a front-page article in Saturday's Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, the Holy See sought to frame itself as the lone voice of courage in opposing initiatives to give same-sex couples legal recognition. In a separate Vatican Radio editorial, the pope's spokesman asked sarcastically why gay marriage proponents don't now push for legal recognition for polygamous couples as well.

Catholic teaching holds that homosexuals should be respected and treated with dignity but that homosexual acts are "intrinsically disordered." The Vatican also opposes same-sex marriage, insisting on the sanctity of marriage between a man and woman as the foundation for society.

The Vatican's anti-gay marriage media blitz came after three U.S. states approved same-sex marriage by popular vote in the election that returned Barack Obama to the U.S. presidency, Spain upheld its gay marriage law, and France pushed ahead with legislation that could see gay marriage legalized early next year.



Read more: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121110/UPDATE/211100370#ixzz2BqCcaPMK

[W T F]

1. That's fine, The Catholic Church doesn't have to marry gay people but..........

The States have a mandate from voters to recognize that two people can jointly own property. This is a matter that does not concern the Church and they should stay out of it..........BTW, Pedophiles should be prosecuted and not protected by the Church.

[Blasphemer]

21. That's pretty much the size of it

The Catholic church, the "church" of Scientology, etc. are all free to uphold a religious doctrine that opposes gay marriage. They don't have to perform gay marriages in their houses of worship. People who remain members of these churches are fully aware of these doctrines and free to choose to either follow them wholesale or selectively. None of that has anything to do with the state recognizing legal contracts between two adult (or minors with parental permission depending upon the jurisdiction) persons.

[olegramps]

42. Firstly, they shouldn't be able to perform legal marriages.

Marriages are basically a contract that is regulated by the state, not the church. They shouldn't be able to perform marriages, just as they are not allowed to control divorces. This is a state function. People should be married in a civil ceremony and if they choose then have it recognized by their religion of choice.

[Blasphemer]

51. Agreed

Separate legal and religious ceremonies, with religious ceremonies alone having no legal validity, is the way things should be. However, considering the amount of people in this country who can't even accept the concept of separation of church and state, I'll be happy with legalizing gay marriage on the federal level as a first step.

[polmaven]

2. They have every right to tell

their own parishioners that they will not preside at a ceremony to marry same gender couples. They need to learn, though, that not every one is a Catholic, and they have no right to dictate that belief to those of us who are of other beliefs....particularly here in the U.S. They are the law at the Vatican....not here!

[defacto7]

5. But to them, the only true religion is Catholicism.

They believe that they are the one true church and the only connection to god. The only truth is their truth. Under that kind of dogmatic attitude, they have no choice but to insist the world only believes their way. They are not an evolving system. They have only attempted change maybe twice in two thousand years.

This to me, is only one more way to guide the worlds attention away from their pedophile history.

[DallasNE]

39. Establishment Clause

The Holy See has stepped over the line here by not honoring the Establishment Clause in the 1st Amendment. He also has his hands full with Church matters and must stop sticking his nose into American politics. Soon the line will be blurred between the Vatican and the Tea Party and the likes of Todd Akin.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

3. With Enemies Like This We are SURE to Have Marriage Equality

The majority of Catholics support gay marriage. I suspect the Pope's narrative will only hasten their continued support.

[Gregorian]

4. Wait until child mistreatment gets real attention. Oh the humanity!

What hypocrisy.

Love thy neighbor? Love they enemy?


Hypocrites!

[yardwork]

6. 50% of American Catholics voted for Obama. That's a much higher percent than among Protestants.

Despite being told in their parishes not to vote for Obama, 50% of Catholics did anyway. The pope is losing power.

[glinda]

25. My 86 yr old Catholic father voted twice now for Obama. He has

normally been a Republican!

[Fearless]

7. Does a tree falling in the woods make any sound?

Likewise to the church.

[Panasonic]

46. Actually, does a tree falling into the church make any sound?

Likewise to the woods.

[blue sky at night]

8. Perhaps the Catholic Church should look at.....

the Republican Party who is quickly becoming irrelevant in modern society. More people are deciding on matters like gay marriage for themselves and finding that it is a HUMAN Rights issue more than anything. The idea that the very corrupted Catholic Church can possibly call homosexual behavior "intrinsically disordered" when their priests are praying on young boys seems a bit "dysfunctional" to say the least.

[Angry Dragon]

53. that is preying

[Dawson Leery]

9. You are NEVER getting your empire back.

The Holy Roman Empire (the dark ages, 400 ad -1400 ad) is over.

[FiveGoodMen]

10. I hope the DUer who first said this won't mind my repeating it...

"..I am thoroughly sick and tired of being spoken to about "morality" and "Godliness" by a bunch of child-raping cover-up artists led by a former Hitler Youth member.."

One of my favorite quotes of all time.

[SoapBox]

17. Hey Vatican pervs...

I do hope...that the Truth HURTS!

[byeya]

11. We have diplomatic relations with the Vatican. Let's not.

[sarcasmo]

12. Is there any wonder why the church is losing the younger generation.

[azurnoir]

13. well when it comes to the Church

Viva la Reformation ya'll got de-emphasized then and your helping that along nicely now

[valerief]

14. Never take romance advice from child rapists--or child rapist enablers. nt

[krispos42]

15. And this applies to secular law how?

Their views on marriage stem from religion, which is fundamentally based on unprovable suppositions even if the reasoning that flows from the supposition is logically sound.


And polygamous marriage should be allowed, if we can craft our laws such that nobody in the marriage is unequal.

Something along the lines of Adam and Beth can marry Charlie as a couple, but only if both Adam and Beth agree. Adam and Beth and Charlie as a trio can marry Donna, but only if Adam and Beth and Charlie agree. Charlie can't just fly to Vegas with Donna and get married.

I think it would effectively limit the vast majority of the small segment of the population that wants polygamous marriage to trios and quartets.

It would likely have hellish legal complexities during a divorce, though.

[SoapBox]

16. Hey pointy hatted, Gucci shoe, old white guys...

*** F *** off.

I don't subscribe to any of your stuff. Go away.

[socialindependocrat]

18. Then why did God allow the same sexes to like each other - Just to piss off the pope? n/t

[olegramps]

43. The fact of the matter is that many priests are homosexuals. This was revealed in several studies.

Donald Cozzeens in his book "The Changing Facts of the Priesthood" said his investigation revealed that from 23% ot 58% were homosexuals. Other studies placed the percentage somewhat lower but well above the national average. One study revealed that 23% of younger priests where homosexuals. The Vatican was so alarmed by theise revealations that they conducted a 10 year investigation of seminaries and established programs to confront the problem. It is clear that the Catholic Church is in as much denial on this subject as it was on pedopllia or its ridiculous reistance to contraceptive birth control. (See Wikipedia for the sources)

[socialindependocrat]

48. Job Ad: Wanted, young males - must be kind, loving, sensative and like working with people

When you think about it, they are a very good fit for the job.

I guess conservatives, as a whole, need to rethink their
thoughts about liberals and their potential contribution
to this society.

They just seem to want to control everything and everybody.

Whatever, time marches on...

Thanks for the additional information.

[Why Syzygy]

19. The polygamous statement

is a slap at gay marriage. It's certainly not a legitimate connection.

It sounds as though the Vatican has somewhere along the line gotten the idea that they have some sort of claim on my body? I can assure you if any of those crusty old dicks laid a finger on me I would press assault charges. How are their tedious little rulings from their self made perches any different? They have no rights over our bodies. Pass it along.

[MNBrewer]

20. 1. True, those of us advocating for same-sex marriage equality will let polygamy advocates

make their own arguments.

2. Polygamy IS biblical marriage. In Genesis, Patriarch Abraham had 3 wives, including his half-sister. I guess that makes incest biblical marriage too.

I wish those medievalists would stfu.

[Why Syzygy]

22. Even the Bible

has no claim to my body, mind or soul! No relic book does. What I'm reacting to is how it is assumed that anyone, let alone sick and twisted, criminal pedophiles have ANY claim to ANY body other than their own. To me that's profound and needs to be thrown up as objection to any of this messing with our lives in any form or fashion.

[ruggerson]

23. Have they admitted they were wrong yet on the whole "sun revolves around the earth" brouhaha?

N/T

[LiberalElite]

49. Yes, in 1992! but - there's a splinter group that wants to revisit this topic

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-07-04/news/ct-met-galileo-was-wrong-20110704_1_modern-church-universe-splinter-group
They're conservative, of course.

[Wolf Frankula]

24. The Only Smart Thing Earl Butz ever said

"You no play-a the game, you no make-a the rules."

Wolf

[Politicalboi]

26. FU Pope

Why do we still act like these assholes have ANY importance. House of Pedophiles, and pedophile protectors.

[barnabas63]

27. Hello to the Vatican from Washington state!!!

We don't care what you think!!!!!!

[cloudbase]

28. Those of us who support equal rights

are only following the golden rule. We're advocating treating others the way we'd like to be treated. As Rabbi Hillel said, the rest of scripture is just commentary on that. They should be overjoyed.

[Blue4Texas]

29. Separation of Church and State it IS

[undeterred]

30. They need to openly acknowledge the sexuality of priests

and let them marry. Then they can deal with gay marriage.

Yeah, right.

[David__77]

31. Society must keep them out of the temporal realm.

The extent of their participation in secular society should be in supporting peace and charity.

[eringer]

32. Keep it up Ratzinger!

Another sore loser. BTW, when are you going to be on The Sean Hannity Show to spew your wrath at the American electorate?

[olddad56]

33. maybe the Catholic church should pay more attention to all of their pedophile priests

and less time worrying about same sex marriage. I remember when Catholics were not allowed by the church to divorce. They got over it, and they will get over same sex marriage.

[Dont call me Shirley]

34. Jesus INCLUDED everyone, the prositutes, the beggars, the tax collectors

and yes, even the gays, Pope. Start preaching ALL of the teachings of Jesus, especially his most profound, inclusiveness.

[Odin2005]

35. Go fuck yourselves, you bunch of child molestors.

And stay the fuck out of our politics.

[and-justice-for-all]

36. Their relivance is nonexistent...

Italy needs to annex vatican city.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. Why do we tolerate another sovereign state meddling in our country?

They can.. yanno... fuck off.

[byeya]

41. For starters, bishops and priests need to register as agents of a foreign country

[Nika]

38. This is one key reason I am no longer a Catholic nor will ever be one again

They are out of touch abd just flat wrong on so many things.

[Mc Mike]

40. Looks like the rank-and-file Catholics

have the hierarchy on 'ignore' again.

Ratzinger looks like a Charles Addams cartoon character. I wouldn't trust him to speak ex cathedra about whether it was noon or mid-night, if we were standing together by Big Ben.

[Sheldon Cooper]

44. Keep marching toward irrelevance, Vatican.

You won't be missed.

[libodem]

45. Know thine enemy

That's all I have to say. You can't legislate morality.
They ought to take care of their own glass house.
And stop throwing stones. Hypocrites.

[toby jo]

47. Hatred is "intrinsically disordered"

[Raster]

50. "...the lone voice of courage..."

Really?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/world/europe/26church.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

MUNICH — The future Pope Benedict XVI was kept more closely apprised of a sexual abuse case in Germany than previous church statements have suggested, raising fresh questions about his handling of a scandal unfolding under his direct supervision before he rose to the top of the church’s hierarchy.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future pope and archbishop in Munich at the time, was copied on a memo that informed him that a priest, whom he had approved sending to therapy in 1980 to overcome pedophilia, would be returned to pastoral work within days of beginning psychiatric treatment. The priest was later convicted of molesting boys in another parish.

<tragically, more to the story>

[Angry Dragon]

52. Hey I think it is great that a bunch of men that don't marry

find they have the right to tell others whom they can marry
while they wear dresses

[Kennah]

54. I read the subject and worried they were going to send troops

[Kennah]

55. The effects of gay marijuana are fucking unreal. Can't believe the shit I read on DU.

[Bragi]

56. Letter from a Long-Lapsed Catholic

Dear Catholic Church:

Please, just go away.

Thanks.

- Me

[Democat]

57. This generation of Vatican officials does not speak for future generations

Never? Things will change.