Cold weather and new storm add to victims' misery

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

By JENNIFER PELTZ and MICHAEL HILL

NEW YORK (AP) - Shivering victims of Superstorm Sandy went to church Sunday to pray for deliverance as cold weather settling in across the New York metropolitan region - and another powerful storm forecast for the middle of the week - added to their misfortunes and deepened the gloom.

With overnight temperatures sinking into the 30s and hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses still without electricity six days after Sandy howled through, people slept in layers of clothes, and New York City officials handed out blankets and urged victims to go to overnight shelters or daytime warming centers.

At the same time, government leaders began to grapple with a daunting longer-term problem: where to find housing for the tens of thousands of people whose homes could be uninhabitable for weeks or months because of a combination of storm damage and cold weather.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg said 30,000 to 40,000 New Yorkers may need to be relocated - a monumental task in a city where housing is scarce and expensive - though he said that number will probably drop to 20,000 within a couple of weeks as power is restored in more places.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20121104/DA2BFHR00.html

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First responders who worked through last Monday's storm surge by Superstorm Sandy, listen as they are acknowledged by Diocese of Trenton American Roman Catholic Bishop David M. O'Connell during services at the Church of Saint Rose in Belmar, N.J., Sunday, Nov. 4, 2012. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

[heaven05]

1. hell

those prefabricated shelters with small generators could help. Ship thousands of those into new york. Set em up in central park. Small but warm shelter and with these type of storms guaranteed to recur, can be used again and again. Hope this is not too wacky, just came to mind reading of this misfortune. Couldn't hurt.

[Iggy]

2. Welcome to what happens

when the government spends $2.5 (or more) Trillion on two wars of choice.

suddenly, there's "just no money" to help tens of thousands of people after disaster strikes. this is hideous. think of the old people trapped in high rise apartment and condo buildings. are they supposed to build a fire? kerosene heaters? what?

[magical thyme]

3. fires and kerosene heaters are generally out

unless they want suicide by CO.

Multiple layers of clothes, especially hats, help. Glove and boot warmers help. Gas stoves and ovens help, and if you have that and can get hold of some bricks, then heating bricks will make radiant heat. "Space blankets" help. Getting together in groups helps -- the more bodies, the more body heat to share. Temporary shelters set up where there is power would be best, especially for the needier.

If they have the means, even if it means putting it on plastic, getting out of town may be the best bet.

Dogs generate a lot of heat, so those who have pet dogs will be better off. Also, those who have pet birds should feed free-choice seed. Their metabolism will crank to keep them ok.

[happyslug]

5. Kerosene heaters, used properly are ideal

The key is NOT to use them in a sealed house (or if you do you have a way to vent out the CO2). I have used them in the past in such a situation, does a adequate job (we are talking of temporary patches NOT rebuilds).

In most of the homes destroyed, Natural Gas lines would be intact, thus the furnace will have to be checked out by an expert and then certified to be usable or have the needed repaired done for the furnace and heating system. Thus no need for Kerosene heaters, given they have Natural Gas service. The only issue is what can be hooked up to the Natural Gas lines to provide heat?

Every so often, when I visit a client of mine in Johnstown PA, the Furnace comes up and you see the old approval sticker (actually a page that was attached to the Furnace and done by a Master Plumber) that is was usable after the 1977 Johnstown Flood. This can be done quickly, thus heating is NOT going to be a problem. The problem is the other damage the water did. We are talking about all of the interior walls having to be guttered and the electrical system reviewed by an Electrician (something done in Johnstown by Master Electricians). Electrical systems are much more sensitive to water then gas lines are.

Side note: Johnstown had a lot of very old fashioned heating systems that barely used any electrical power. These are and were inefficient, but they can be approved for use quickly. New Furnaces are more efficient and have more electrical inputs. Thus higher level of having to be replaced then the older less efficient gas furnaces of 1977 and before.

Water system would should also be usable, once the flood waters are gone, unless the flood water entered the water system, perfectly usable. Sewerage is a more difficult problem, but once the flood water is gone, that problem is solved,

Thus it is repairs to the houses themselves, interior walls and electrical systems more then the heating systems. A good electrician can tell the home owner what he has to check out and what he will have to replace. This gives the home owner knowledge on what interior walls have to be replaced first (to get at the underlying electrical system). Not every electrical outlet will have to be checked out. the electricians will tell the home owners what has to be done. Electrical panels, once dried out, may be good enough to restore power to the house. Again an Electricians will have to check it out.

My point is heat is less a problem then electrical systems. A good Electrician can patch up the Electrical box for the house so that power only goes to the Furnace (if it is impossible for the whole house to be made safe for electricity) and thus the house has heat.

The real work is making replacing all of the interior walls, being plaster board they were NEVER intended to have this amount of water in them, thus must be removed. While that work is being done, where does the family live? That is the concern, some can stay in their home while it is rebuilt around them, others will just have to stay upstairs in the areas NOT affected by Flood Waters.

My point is heating is really not a problem, clothing is not a problem, the problem is rebuilding these homes, replace the furnace (or rebuild it or have it approved by a Master Plumber it is safe and usable), have a Master Electrician look over the electrical system to make sure all the water is out of it and the flood water did NOT do permanent harm to the electrical system (and replace those parts, or the whole electrical system that the Electrician determine is needed to make it a safe electrical system). The real problem is rebuilding the interiors, replacing any appliances that are unsafe to use, replacing any beds the flood water touched (Beds have to be replaced when soaked in such water, unlike other things in the House that may be reusable).

People are going to be homeless, unable to stay in their homes while it is rebuilt. Gas, water and Sewerage lines are all intake and thus available for use. Electrical power to these homes will be available, the only question would be the electrical system in the house itself. Once the Electrical system is usable then people can move back in, unless they being in the home interferes with the reconstruction of the house itself. People's whose whole home went under water will be homeless while the house is gutted and rebuilt, but people whose home were only flooded in the basement or the first floor, can still use their second or higher floors. Water and Sewerage will be available and usable. The only real issue is the heat for the house AND the electrical system. Once those are patched enough to be usable, the house is livable even while it is being reconstructed.

Thus you will have two types of homeless people, people who will be out of their home while it is rebuilt top to bottom and those who can return to their home once the Furnace and electrical system are up and running. The later may opt to live elsewhere, but they may also decide to live in the livable parts of their home but notice Heat and electrical service would have to be restored before then.

Just a comment that these people will probably NOT need Kerosene heaters or blankets or dogs, but will need help to make sure they homes they end up in is a place they can live AND maintain their employment, even while their home is being rebuilt.

[Iggy]

6. "Heating is not a Problem..."

with all due respect-- how do you run a furnace w/o power??

[happyslug]

8. There are ways, while known to Plumbers AND Electricians

Remember most of these homes will have ACCESS to water, sewerage, Gas and Electrical power. Thus the problem is making sure the Furnace has electrical service (or can be operated safety without it). Once that is done, no problem, This is why you contact a Master Plumber or a Master Electrician (or both).

[Iggy]

13. Uhhh.....

most if not all furnaces have blowers/fans... you're not running those w/o power.

[happyslug]

14. Water system do NOT have blowers or fans, circulation of the water is enough

Water systems operate on the rule, that hot water rises and cold water falls and they can push each other around, prevented from going backward by flaps that make sure the water only go in one direction. The Flaps are mechanical, only falls down to block water flow (or air flow) if water or air is going the wrong direction.

As to air systems, air does RISE, so can be operated with out blowers or fans, but not as efficiently as with electrical power for blowers or fans.

Thus you can have heat without electricity, and in most cases that is all you need for now.

[magical thyme]

7. which brings us to a larger point, which came up with Katrina...

These mega-storms are just the beginning. Does it make sense to rebuild in places that are known to be in their path?

Lots of businesses are also still in the dark and heavily damaged. Does it make business sense to rebuild them in the path of these kinds of storms.

We don't know which year certain areas will be hit, but we do know certain areas will be more prone to massive damage than other areas. Is it more cost-effect to close an area to rebuilding, or to build bigger, higher sea walls? Will they be able to buy flood insurance, or will society as a whole be made to subsidize their continued existence in place?

In the case of places like Staten Island, should they be allowed to rebuild homes that were swept out to sea or destroyed in place? Or should they be offered incentives o rebuild somewhere safer and open the beachfront areas to be beachfront only? Apparently at least some of the beachfront homes were retirees, so access to their work ceases to be an in issue for them.

Personally, I think that before people start rebuilding, they should maybe re-assess long term safety and financial concerns. If it were me, I'd be inclined to take my insurance check and run...but that's just me.

[happyslug]

9. I agree with you, that was one argument for NOT rebuilding New Orleans.

Unfortunately the "Plan" was to move African Americans out of New Orleans and upper class whites in, NOT a decision that, except for the French Quarter, New Orleans will ALWAYS be sinking (The French Quarter is on the only piece of solid land in miles, the reason the French build New Orleans where they did, but by the US Civil War New Orleans had already expanded beyond that solid piece of land. The Federal Government should have said NO to any Reconstruction outside the French Quarter on the grounds it is NOT sustainable.

It would have been more cost effective to move people to Baton Rouge then to rebuild New Orleans.

[wordpix]

4. States should take over the power companies, or the fed gov should

These POS's only care about profits and not about people freezing in the dark for a week or more. If they cared about people, they would have resolved this issue long ago. Every storm, it's the same thing,

[4th law of robotics]

10. I'm pretty sure even publicly owned utilities aren't hurricane-proof

People need to realize this is a massive storm hitting an area larger than most countries that destroyed massive amounts of infrastructure.

I challenge you to find a public utility that could restore service to 100% of it's customers within this period of time under these circumstances.

They are doing their jobs, we need to be realistic.

[slackmaster]

11. Commercial power companies make money only when power is flowing to customers

A government-run power company would get paid whether or not peoples' lights are on.

[CreekDog]

12. You have no idea what you're talking about

Municipal Utilities are common and charge the same way private entities do.

My government water supply is only paid when I use the service.

you sound like a Libertarian --especially being completely wrong and all. LOL.