"Vote for the Mormon, not the Muslim" (church-front) sign stirs controversy..

[Indi Guy]

Last edited Fri Oct 19, 2012, 03:22 PM - Edit history (2)

Source: KHOU.com (Houston, Texas)

...That marquee standing outside a non-denominational church has become the talk of the town in Leakey — about 90 miles northwest of San Antonio.

The Church in the Valley is run by Pastor Ray Miller. Miller declined an interview but did say the sign was solely his idea. He said he changes the sign weekly and this isn't the first bold statement to be displayed.

The pastor said he feels strongly about the upcoming presidential election and feels the message on the marquee speaks for itself.

Since it is a church, it is classified as a non-profit organization. That means, by law, it can not endorse a political candidate... (Video in article)

[font size="1" color="red"]on edit, I found this pic:[/font]




Read more: http://www.khou.com/news/politics/Vote-for-the-Mormon-not-the-Muslim-sign--174932531.html

[bluethruandthru]

1. I certainly hope this church loses its tax-exempt status! n/t

[Shuhered]

10. Totally Agree

This gentleman is a hater and foments it with signs such as what he has in front of his church. Obama is a Christian, period. Birthers are agenda- driven haters who operate sans facts. May we please just dispense with the rhetoric and call a spade a spade: Those opposing Obama, fully 90 % of them do so because he is black. There ought to be a Hatred-Added Tax (H-AT) to any religious institution who breaks the laws with impunity in this matter. Once they do these egregious actions three times, they then should lose their tax- exemption for good.

[freshwest]

41. And the preacher is not a Bible reader, either. Exodus 20:16:

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

He is an outright liar and a political hack.

The Bible says nothing about capitalism or communism.

It condemns in no uncertain terms the love of money, which would fit capitalism.

It prohibits holding back the wages of the laborer and not leaving enough for the poor, which would fit communism.

That's just the Old Testament, where the GOP wants us to live, without grace or forgiveness.

[icarusxat]

58. and let us not forget...

Cursed be he who misdirects a blind person on his way.--And all the people shall say, Amen.
Deuteronomy 27:11-28:6

google the Washington Post article, Mitt giggled uncontrollably...

[freshwest]

59. Oh, man, I was relating that story to someone this week right after the hair cut story.

The woman is a liberal Christian and a former teacher of special education kids. Also told her about the meeting with the teachers where he shut one down from asking a question, as they were just props like the coal miners. She was outraged and said she'd be telling others. Some don't follow politics much, busy with doing what they consider their duty to others, etc. So if we can spread the good news about what is going on and the bad news, it will help. She is trying to talk someone into not voting GOP this year. She brought up Medicare, Medicaid and SS changes but they deny there will be any.

[GulleyJimson]

74. Let's not forget...

Ecclesiastes 10: 16-20


“Woe to you, O land whose king was a servant and whose princes feast in the morning. Blessed are you, O land whose king is of noble birth and whose princes eat at a proper time-- for strength and not for drunkenness. If a man is lazy, the rafters sag; if his hands are idle, the house leaks. A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes life merry, but money is the answer for everything. Do not revile the king even in your thoughts, or curse the rich in your bedroom, because a bird of the air may carry your words, and a bird on the wing may report what you say.”

[freshwest]

82. Meaning what?

[Historic NY]

2. That church apparently doesn't need a non profit status...cue IRS.

[Shuhered]

45. IRS. Where are you?????

Guys like this, like a child misbehaving, crave limits. Please give him a set. He will think twice before making such outrageous suggestions. Freedom of speech never implies due process of the speaker from the consequences of his actions and fomented sequelae therein. He deserves to be tax exemption like Mr. Romney needs another illegal tax shelter.

[beac]

3. Say buh-bye to your tax-exempt status, you idiot.

Couldn't happen to a more deserving moron.

[life long demo]

5. But will that actually happen?

Does anyone know if there are any churches who have lost their tax exemption because of politics?

[2pooped2pop]

76. I bet they'd lose the exemption if they were telling members to vote

Obama. I bet it would suddenly become a very important issue that has to be acted on immediately.

[Fresh_Start]

4. How about truth at Church's: vote for the Mormon instead of the Christian?

or do church's have to lie in order to lead their clueless flocks?

[bulloney]

6. Where do Christ's teachings like "Judge not lest ye be judged" and others fit in at their services?

How can anyone take people like Miller seriously as a pastor of a Christian house of worship?

[TrogL]

9. The simplistic and certainty-addicted

[lunasun]

60. Judge not lest ye be TAXED

and any house of worship with non profit status should follow rules
doesnt matter what religion
they dont have some special exception

[Shuhered]

7. Initiating Legal Action

This gentlemen, who is as far way from Christian values as Lucipher himself, needs to feel it in his pocketbook and soon. He proudly states that he has supported one political agenda over another. That's not permissable in this land where church and state are separate for a reason. Fine him and revoke his tax-exempt status. He'll come around soon thereafter, though for his current earthly actions, he will be assigned the bunk next to Saddam Hussein when he arrives in Hell.

[uppityperson]

84. He may not be afraid to speak out but he IS ignorant at best. This "godly and loving group" is

promoting bigotry as falsehoods as well as breaking the law.

[louis-t]

8. What part of "by law, it cannot endorse a political candidate"

do these idiots NOT get?

edit: waiting for fox 'news' dissection of sign and what they "really meant" and how it's "not really a political statement" etc.....etc....etc...

[BainsBane]

31. Laws don't apply to Republicans

Surely you know that.

[Vidar]

81. Not as long as Obama and Holder don't enforce them

[leapinggnome]

38. fox 'news' dissection of sign

FOX's Megyn Kelly will say something like "just because the refer to Obama as a Communist doesn't mean they think Obama is a Communist" or something equally moronic...

[Orrex]

39. Actually, I suspect that they'll claim that the sign is ok because it doesn't mention names

In fact, your hastiness to identify Obama as the Communist Muslim implies that you are the racist.

(See how their idiocy works?)

[olddad56]

57. It sounds like this might be the right church for Megyn Kelley. The Moron Church

[Skittles]

11. nice Christian attitude

lying and bigotry

[rivegauche]

48. Yeah. That's why I'm a happy atheist.

[8 track mind]

68. same here n/t

[get the red out]

12. The word "pastor"

Literally makes me ill anymore. It's become short for GOP Tool, knuckle-dragger, idiot, fool, asshole, hate-monger, consciousless piece of dog shit..........................

[icarusxat]

62. Pastor is not a position in the Mormon church

another example of Mitt trying to hide from himself behind his own middle finger...

[Bertha Venation]

13. Ignorance is bliss.

This guy must be hyper-ecstatic all day, every day.

[toby jo]

16. You pegged it, Bert

[heaven05]

14. huh

the ignorance displayed by some amerikkkans toward the President of all americans is truly astounding in an amazing way. This is the 21st century and the kkk still lives in a bubble of racist stupidity. How very, very, telling of amerikkan culture. I am not proud of the amerikkka I've seen this election season, the last four years actually. This fool considers himself a follower of Jesus, probably. Well, he'll be one of the "I know you not" people. Check your concordance for the reference to biblical passage.

[meow2u3]

15. If a progressive pastor had a "Vote for the Christian, not for the Mormon" sign

Conservos would call for the church's head.

[HockeyMom]

17. The Mormon baptized my already baptized DEAD GRANDPA

that is what I would write under it.

[trailmonkee]

18. non-denominational? I am pretty sure 'ASSHOLE' is a denomination

[LiberalElite]

70. Holy Crap

It always seemed to me that non-denominational is itself a denomination: Bible-thumping born-again "Christian".

[olddad56]

19. could always contact them and tell them how you feel, contact info below

Church in the Valley
P.O. Box 1071
724 S US Hwy 83
Leakey, Texas 77873
830-232-6090
[e-mail]
Pastor - Bro. Ray Miller

[hamsterjill]

28. Their website

Posted about this yesterday. Always amazes me when the news wants to interview the guy and he's "gone fishing". If they were proud of their actions, you'd think they would want to go on camera and defend them.

http://www.churchinthevalley-leakey.com/



Edited to also add the link to a news video from a San Antonio television station from earlier:


http://www.ksat.com/news/Leakey-church-sign-stirs-political-controversy/-/478452/17036090/-/jcv0rnz/-/index.html

[rivegauche]

53. Thank you!

I just finished filling out a report for the IRS on this bigoted jerk.

[olddad56]

56. I appreciate you doing that. Thanks

[durablend]

87. Leakey Texas...giggle n/t

[lexx21]

20. Interesting enough they (the church office) aren't answering the phone right now.

So, I had to leave a voice mail asking them why a supposed christian organization would be so racist. I also told them that they not only owed the President an apology, but the people of their state since they have been living under a non-profit tax exempt status and obviously support a political candidate.

Oh well, rants on deaf ears. I suppose "Brother" Ray and his parish need to have a visit from the tax assessor's office.

[olddad56]

22. I sent Bro Ray a gentle but firm email.

[rivegauche]

52. I sent one too. Not firm or gentle.

[George II]

26. Send them an email (see post just above yours)

[SamKnause]

21. Vote for.............

My cult is better than your cult.

Same bullshit, different day.

[Shuhered]

86. Desperate Faux Christians

Everyone knows that Obama is a Christian. His faith does not matter to me in any event. Low-Information Voters [ Uneducated Fox News Watchers ] are, by survey, noted to believe that he is a Muslim. I submit that each and every one of them know outright that he is a Christian. These bubbas and bubbettes opt to relay to others that the POTUS is Muslim because it satiates their racist souls here on earth. God doesn't approve of racist liars and he certainly will send each of these faux Christians to Hell to reside for eternity next to Saddam Hussein & Dick Cheney. Stay warm kids and give Senator Akin my warmest regards when he gets there, teehee.

[mac56]

23. My email to them

Hello Bro. Miller:

I was impressed to read about the sign outside your church, imploring the public to "Vote For The Mormon - Not The Muslim".

It shows your church clearly does not need its 501(c)3 tax-exempt status. That's impressive. Most people are aware that a church can lose its tax-exempt status for engaging in partisan political activity, like endorsing a candidate.

So, good for you! You've figured out a way to continue on without exemption from taxes! I sincerely wish you would share some of your financial planning stretegies with other churches.

Best of luck to you.

Mac56

[hrmjustin]

24. Some people will never get over their bigotry.

[olddad56]

25. I think he might have mis-spelled the word Moron, it doesn't have a second M in it.

[George II]

27. Now THAT would make a great sign: "Don't vote for the Mor[m]on"!!!

[ThomThom]

29. these places should loose their tax exempt status

it is time to enforce the law

[olddad56]

30. "We accept all as they are" ....

That phrase was taken directly from the church's web site. Maybe Rev. Bro Ray is not so much into practicing what he preaches.

http://www.churchinthevalley-leakey.com/

[Indi Guy]

32. Also from the church's website...

"Our mission in Leakey is a Bible based effort to be Christ's ambassadors to seek and save that which is lost, set at liberty those who are bound, heal the sick and bruised, clothe the naked, feed the hungry and comfort those who are afflicted."

...Sounds pretty liberal to me. I wonder how Brother Miller can endorse Mitt without renouncing his church's mission statement.

[PMcDee]

33. I get the first part;

Mitt Romney is the Mormon capitalist they want us to vote for, but who the hell is the Muslim communist they want us to vote against? Oh yeah, it's the imaginary Obama sitting in Clint Eastwood's chair.

[olddad56]

35. An imaginary person sitting in the empty chair would get my cote over Mr. Robme.

[Bossy Monkey]

34. I can make "I'm a moron!" out of that without even going to Internet Anagram Server

(which feels it's too long.

[nakocal]

36. Another "Christian" who has never met Christ

This is another example of why conservatives cannot be Christian. The two philosophies are polar opposites. Conservatives do not believe in helping the less fortunate while helping the most vulnerable in society was the primary teachings of Jesus.

[elbloggoZY27]

37. Oh! WA.

You cannot get more intolerant.

[slackmaster]

40. Intolerance is not the issue. The President isn't even a Muslim.

The real issue, as many have already pointed out, is a church violating the conditions of its tax-exempt status by advocating for a candidate.

[Coyotl]

42. Calling the IRS. Oooophs, there goes that tax-exempt status.

Pastor Ray Miller, get an education

[slackmaster]

44. FYI, I have been involved in politics for almost 40 years. I've seen churches and other non-profits

...blatantly violate the terms of their tax status innumerable times.

It's not just to favor Republicans BTW. The sword cuts both ways.

Enforcement by the IRS is almost unheard of.

[yurbud]

47. it would be political suicide for any pol to suggest it, but we really need to do away with that tax

exempt status.

[slackmaster]

51. Be careful what you wish for. Eliminating tax-exempt status would harm a lot of beneficial groups.

Eliminating it just for religious organizations would lead to chaos in the courts.

[themaguffin]

43. [e-mail] - I sent him an email. hope he likes paying taxes.

[rivegauche]

46. To paraphrase Woody Allen

from the movie "Hannah and Her Sisters" - if Jesus came back to earth and saw what was going on in his name, he would never stop throwing up.

[yurbud]

49. Don't mess with Texas! (cause they got a double digit IQ and ain't afeard to use it)

[slackmaster]

50. For those who agree that churches who endorse candidates should lose their tax-exempt status...

...I agree. They should. But it's not going to happen unless the IRS receives enough credible complaints.

How many is that, and how credible do they have to be? Nobody knows. I've filed about a dozen complaints against churches and other non-profits for exactly that reason, and I have yet to see the IRS pursue an investigation.

The proper way to handle this is to complain to the IRS. Here is some information about how to file:

http://www.nonprofitexpert.com/faq/q24.htm

[Cha]

54. "VOTE FOR The Mormon.. The A$$hole Vulture Capitalist who

will KILL BIG BIRD! Not the Christian Who Implemented A Health Care Plan that takes you even with Pre-existing Conditions. Who cares about the "47%", too! Who tells you the truth and won't lie to your face like Plutocratic, pathological Liar"

HOT DAMN.. I fixed it for 'em!

[mountain grammy]

55. Enough with these meddlesome churches.. no more tax exempt

in America, you pay to play....

[mwooldri]

63. So who are the Islamic and Communist candidates for President?

Peta Lindsay would be the Communist, but she's not on the ballot in Texas.

I don't know anyone who practices Islam that is on the ballot anywhere in the USA as a candidate for President.

[Indi Guy]

77. I recall that Reagan supported the famous ANTI-Communist Muslims - the Mujahideen...

...which included the likes that great freedom fighter Osama. But I'm not familiar with any Communist Muslims -- foreign or domestic.

[GeorgeGist]

64. Racism is Alive And well in USA USA USA

Thanks GOP

[montana_hazeleyes]

65. Oh, this is just so wrong!

And they just get away with it.

[underthematrix]

66. Got a call from one of the Romnesia superpacs

Americans for - - - - - Leadership. I told the nice young lady that I did not support Mitt Romney because I do not vote for racists or birthers. She thanked me and hung up.

[Arugula Latte]

67. Tax these ignorant motherf@#$%rs

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

69. Send in the auditors or the IRS

or someone and inform Pastor Miller his church is no longer tax exempt..........

[LiberalElite]

71. He changes the sign weekly?

Can't wait for the next exciting installment of "Who Would Jesus Vote For? It's Not Who You'd Think."

[ProudProgressiveNow]

72. Out of Line. Damn

[ButterflyBlood]

73. Well Obama is neither a Muslim nor a communist, so they have a loophole here

If the tax exempt status comes up. On the other hand "Vote for the Mormon" clearly endorses Romney.

[Shuhered]

85. Ideologues know Obama is Christian

Those pesky low- information voters keep accepting
crap fed to them from fantasy TV stations FoxNews and SyFy channel, lol.

[GulleyJimson]

75. Has anyone seen

a synagogue or mosque displaying signs supporting either candidate?

I'm sure that if a mosque displayed such a sign the IRS would promptly clamp down on them. Or, am I just overreacting?

[ButterflyBlood]

78. Well some synagogues are even worse than these churches at this

The Hasidic ultra-Orthodox communities in America, in places like the Borough Park neighborhood of Brooklyn and Kiryas Joel, NY will literally vote >90% for whatever candidate the lead rabbi endorses. In 2000 they mostly supported Gore (his running mate no doubt helped) and those areas voted as strongly for Gore as black neighborhoods did. In 2004 they switched to backing Bush, and these were the strongest areas for Bush in the country. In 2008 most supported McCain and it continued, but Kiryas Joel is actually two loosely linked communities, and in one the rabbi endorsed Obama. So it voted about 60-40 for McCain, with the larger one being well over 90% for McCain and the other one voting like a black neighborhood for Obama. It'd be fascinating if it wasn't so creepy.

But that's a little different from this, as these people don't just go to synagogue together but all live together too, and it's really based on personal endorsements, not some religious organization directly.

[jsr]

79. The IRS won't touch them

judging from similar incidents. Unless the Church in the Valley changes its name to the Church of Mitt Romney.

[and-justice-for-all]

80. Muslim, what Muslim??

Communist?? I bet they could not tell you what Communism is.

[neversaydie]

88. Salt Lake City Tribune endorsed Obama

enough said? Even the mormons don't like the mormon.