Iran sends rare letter to U.S. over killed scientist
Source: Reuters
(Reuters) - Iran said on Saturday it had evidence Washington was behind the latest killing of one of its nuclear scientists, state television reported, at a time when tensions over the country's nuclear program have escalated to their highest level ever.
In the fifth attack of its kind in two years, a magnetic bomb was attached to the door of 32-year-old Mostafa Ahmadi-Roshan's car during the Wednesday morning rush-hour in the capital. His driver was also killed.
U.S. Secretary of State Hilary Clinton denied responsibility and Israeli President Shimon Peres said Israel had no role in the attack, to the best of his knowledge.
"We have reliable documents and evidence that this terrorist act was planned, guided and supported by the CIA," the Iranian foreign ministry said in a letter handed to the Swiss ambassador in Tehran, state TV reported. The Swiss embassy represents U.S. interests in a country where Washington has no diplomatic ties.
Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/14/us-iran-idUSTRE80D0NI20120114
Kaleko
(4,986 posts)Iran or the US/Israel?
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Never mind any sort of traceable materials. They probably stole the motorbike from someone on holiday or away visiting a sick relative, and returned it to where it was stashed without anyone being the wiser.
Behind the Aegis
(53,980 posts)Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #17)
Post removed
meti57b
(3,584 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)alfredo
(60,075 posts)ability to take care of themselves. They have proven their expertise time and time again.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)mike_c
(36,281 posts)I sincerely hope the U.S. wasn't behind this, and sorry I can't feel any conviction that they weren't. But killing scientists and engineers for doing what scientists and engineers do, figuring out how to make things work-- even atomic bombs-- is just patently wrong. Attack policies, and the people who make them. Attack military assets, who exist to fight. But scientists are not the enemy, ever. They're just people working to achieve as much as they can possibly achieve. They don't decide to bomb other countries, even when their work is used for that purpose.
Whomever is targeting working scientists is indeed a terrorist. May karma fuck them up, badly.
I do believe it's possible the Iranian government may have tried to silence a whistleblower, however.
MADem
(135,425 posts)bananas
(27,509 posts)A lot of scientists and engineers refused to work on Star Wars and other weapons projects.
A lot of scientists refuse to work on genetically engineering food.
Many scientists and engineers have risked their careers by blowing the whistle on dangerous and/or unethical projects.
Recently scientists faced the ethical question of whether to publish research on a deadly flu virus.
Your suggestion that scientists and engineers should be nothing more than amoral unaccountable tools of the governments and corporations they work for is horrifying.
Scientists and engineers have as moral and ethical obligation to shape government and corporate policies.
You say it's ok to "attack military assets, who exist to fight." Well these scientists aren't stupid, they knew they became military assets when they chose to work on these projects, and it is no more ok to kill them than it is to kill some kid who joined the army out of poverty. Your double standard on the value of human life is disgusting.
boppers
(16,588 posts)That seems to be the logical (of extreme) outcome, in this context, for claiming that scientists are "responsible" for things they have learned about.
unkachuck
(6,295 posts)"We have reliable documents and evidence that this terrorist act was planned, guided and supported by the CIA,"
....if it's every bit good as bushco's evidence of Iraqi WMD, it should be reliable enough....
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)Who has the most to lose from a nuclear Iran?
It is too bad that their revolution led them to a theocracy instead of freedom.
I feel sorry that the Iranian people haven't been succesful in overthrowing those old men with bushy beards afraid of the entire world.
Bodhi BloodWave
(2,346 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)By that logic, I think Hungary has some payback coming against the Russians. Sure, it was the USSR back then but who cares, right? And that was three years after the Iranian coup so they have more of a recent claim.
How about Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic? They should still be angry at the entire former Warsaw pact.
Are you really that interested in promulgating the idea that issues from 26+ years in the past should be used as justifications for breaking international law and otherwise unprovoked wars? Is that what progressivism means to you?
Bodhi BloodWave
(2,346 posts)Had the US and UK not couped a popular democratically elected leader I doubt we would have had an Islamic republic currently since the after effects of the coup lead Reza to become increasingly more autocratic. The end result being that Ruhollah Khomeini was exiled until his return during the revolution.
As for the rest of your post, i don't think i made any mention of progressivism and such, all i did was point out the defining moment that lead toward the Islamic republic being born.
Also, my post was in reply to somebody who found it sad that the revolution turned iran into a Theocracy rather then freedom, in that context my post also points out that they were a lot more free before the coup.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)apologists.
People use all kinds of excuses to justify their actions. That's what they are, excuses. A country that wants a secular democracy doesnt willingly turn themselves over to a fanatical theocracy because there was a coup 20 years earlier.
Anyone who buys that will buy anything.
Bodhi BloodWave
(2,346 posts)I guess the main difference in our argument is that you chose to ignore history whereas I opt to learn from it.
dougolat
(716 posts)a "changing horses in midstream" kind of thing.
consider: without the Iranian boogeyman there would be so much less reason to keep the oil prices up (demand is down, thanks to our limping economy- nat-gas, too.), and a lot of financial whiz-kids would be hurt, and oil profits might drop from spectacular to merely huge. It would even affect food prices.
In addition, even the Iranian economy needs high oil prices, so expect their "leaders" to play along.
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)nukes are primarily defensive in nature, they prevent attacks, because if anyone uses them to attack anyone, they would be wiped out in response.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)If by "lose" you mean "losing the ability to threaten nuclear annihilation with no threat of a return strike" then yes, the assorted crusader states have a bit to lose. Nothing worse than a Muslim nation that doesn't shit itself in fear, after all.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)for the world to see.
Sam
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)dougolat
(716 posts)cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)but lets assume it was them, then its pretty interesting that we would have the ability to plant bombs yet we cannot find out for sure if their building a nuke not to mention if our government wanted the scientists dead there are ways to make it look like an accident and or things like an accidental drug overdose.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)for the ongoing, 17 year long covert war against Iran. It is a cooperative effort between the U.S., the U.K. and Israel, and includes sanctions, attempts to manipulate Iran's currency and markets, aerial surveillance, bombings, assassinations, kidnappings, providing money and logistical support to terrorist proxies, disseminating propaganda and computer viruses and so on. It is true that the Obama administration has currently scaled back direct U.S. physical involvement, but the Israelis have not, and they are firmly backed by U.S. money and intelligence.
There is no doubt among the informed about any of this, which tells me that you are not really interested in evidence.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)I am a big law and order person, and I like to see direct proof when allegations are made. It is as simple as that. The statement was made by them they have the evidence; my response is don't tell me about it, show me the proof.
Sam
Fool Count
(1,230 posts)of scientists and engineers in the process, nobody batted an eye. Killing one guy is nothing
in comparison. Suppose they show you and everyone else "the proof", then what? What is
it going to change? We already know that Israel is capable of killing scores of people in
order to squash the neighbors' nuclear ambition. What's one more proof going to add to
that knowledge?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Investigation can show which individuals planted it, can determine who their associates are, etc. The finances of all of those people can be examined and provided. THAT is evidence. Saying our country doesnt like theirs is not evidence.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)You mean my post wouldn't be enough to convict in a court of law?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)ronnie624
(5,764 posts)They're not original, just a reiteration of what is being said by highly respected investigative journalists, policy analysts and historians. The evidence you presumably desire, will be found in a more extensive reading of history and current events regarding U.S. involvement in the Middle East.
Bolo Boffin
(23,796 posts)And all of a sudden it's got "evidence" Washington did this?
How bout that.
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)Forgive me if I don't trust the Iranian government. I have a hard time believing that the US would take out some scientists to "prevent" a nuclear Iran. It's propaganda for Iran. Their people are expendable.
alfredo
(60,075 posts)might have experienced friendly fire.
dougolat
(716 posts)ronnie624
(5,764 posts)http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/us/iran-sees-terror-plot-accusation-as-diversion-from-wall-street-protests.html?pagewanted=all
Some analysts skeptical of alleged Iranian plot
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/12/us/analysis-iran-saudi-plot/index.html
Robb
(39,665 posts)Excuse me, to add: anyone serious?
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)My guess, is that the U.S. government's case will hinge on the 'confession' of one of the suspects.
Monk06
(7,675 posts)And unlike the Mafia they're government funded.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)If they have evidence, let's see and examine it. Probably did it themselves. I know some people here would love to believe it was either the US or Israel but there simply is no proof of that and until there is, I blame the government that disappears those who demonstrate against it and hangs their homosexuals. Assholes.
Lionel Mandrake
(4,076 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 15, 2012, 05:47 PM - Edit history (1)
How is this possible? According to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, homosexuality doesn't exist in Iran.
JohnyCanuck
(9,922 posts)This article in Foreign Policy describes one of Israels recent false flag operations. A series of CIA memos describes how Israeli Mossad agents posed as American spies to recruit members of the terrorist organization Jundallah to fight their covert war against Iran. This type of false flag operation was not directed against the US, but it could provide a model to bring about a US/Iran war. If Iranians could be made to think that the US was behind extreme terrorist attacks in their country, this could force the Iranian government to take belligerent action against the US that would mean war. The Iranian government could not afford to look like a paper tiger, too weak to make any effort to defend its citizens.
One cannot absolve Americas government leaders of the responsibility for these Israeli actions. That the US government fails to do anything significant to stop such false flag operations makes it appear that it actually supports them. And it certainly could appear this way to the Iranians. In fact, since Israel is allegedly Americas close ally, the US should demand that it stop any type of terrorism against Iran, since such activity makes it appear that it has, at the very least, Americas tacit support. And Israels rejection of such a demand should have serious consequences, such as the termination of US military collaboration.
Continued at:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/01/14/israels-false-flag-operation-against-iran/
hack89
(39,171 posts)JohnyCanuck
(9,922 posts)When is a Terrorist Not a Terrorist?
War with Iran or not?
By Alan Hart
The longer and complete form of the first question in the headline is When is a terrorist not a terrorist in the eyes of the Obama administration (not to mention all of its predecessors) and the governments of the Western world?
Answer: When he or she is an Israeli Mossad agent or asset.
In the case of the assassination of Iranian scientists, the Mossads assets are almost certainly members of the Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MKO) also known as The Peoples Mujahedin of Iran, which is committed to overthrowing the regime of the ruling mullahs. Many of its activists are based in Iraqi Kurdistan where Mossad has a substantial presence. It does the training there, selects the targets in Iran and provides the bombs and other weapons, and MKO members do the actual killing.
Its reasonable to presume that Mossad is more comfortable operating out of Iraqi Kurdistan with Iranian MKO assets than it was when its own agents were posing as CIA officers to recruit members of Jundallah, a Pakistan-based Sunni extremist organization, to carry out assassinations and attacks on installations and facilities in Iran.
Some of the essence of that Israeli false flag operation has been revealed by Mark Perry in an article for Foreign Policy. His report is based on information he acquired about memos buried deep in the archives of Americas intelligence services which were written in the last years of President George Dubya Bushs administration, plus conversations he had with two currently serving U.S. intelligence officials and four retired intelligence officers who worked for the CIA or monitored Israeli intelligence operations from senior positions inside the U.S. government.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/01/15/alan-hart-terrorist/
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Frankly, I dont believe anything the Iranians say, but if you are going to pick a bogeyman, wouldnt you want to choose the same bogeyman as the Iranians?
JohnyCanuck
(9,922 posts)or mainstream media tell the public regarding the underhanded behavior of the latest Middle Eastern country designated to have democracy imposed on it by bombing. After all, the US and Israel are both proven and accomplished propagandists, deceivers and instigators of illegal wars. When last has Iran invaded another country? It's been a good few hundred years since Iran started a war when it was not attacked first (i.e Saddam's attempted invasion of Iran, supported and encouraged by the USA which cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iranians). Who in recent history has started several murderous wars and invasions on false pretexts and invaded weaker countries unable to defend themselves? Hint, it wasn't Iran.
The historical record shows the Israelis are not averse to using false flag terror to accomplish their goals, as the recent article in the publication Foreign Policy explains. According to FP, internal reports and sources within the US gov't admit privately that Israel uses false flag techniques to pin the blame for terrorist style attacks against Iran on the CIA:
False Flag
Buried deep in the archives of America's intelligence services are a series of memos, written during the last years of President George W. Bush's administration, that describe how Israeli Mossad officers recruited operatives belonging to the terrorist group Jundallah by passing themselves off as American agents. According to two U.S. intelligence officials, the Israelis, flush with American dollars and toting U.S. passports, posed as CIA officers in recruiting Jundallah operatives -- what is commonly referred to as a "false flag" operation.
The memos, as described by the sources, one of whom has read them and another who is intimately familiar with the case, investigated and debunked reports from 2007 and 2008 accusing the CIA, at the direction of the White House, of covertly supporting Jundallah -- a Pakistan-based Sunni extremist organization. Jundallah, according to the U.S. government and published reports, is responsible for assassinating Iranian government officials and killing Iranian women and children.
But while the memos show that the United States had barred even the most incidental contact with Jundallah, according to both intelligence officers, the same was not true for Israel's Mossad. The memos also detail CIA field reports saying that Israel's recruiting activities occurred under the nose of U.S. intelligence officers, most notably in London, the capital of one of Israel's ostensible allies, where Mossad officers posing as CIA operatives met with Jundallah officials.
The officials did not know whether the Israeli program to recruit and use Jundallah is ongoing. Nevertheless, they were stunned by the brazenness of the Mossad's efforts.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag?page=0,0
This use of false flag techniques by Israel is not new. In the Lavon Affair way back in 1954 Israeli agents attempted to firebomb US and British owned properties in Egypt to make it look like Arab terrorists were responsible.
Of course, the USA living in a glass house is not really in a position to throw any stones when it comes to the use of false flag terror techniques and intentionally creating incidents to make a designated enemy look bad while it secretly accomplishes the USA's own objectives.
"We Americans are the ultimate innocents. We are forever desperate to believe that this time the government is telling us the truth." - US newspaper columnist Sydney Schanberg reflecting on how easily the US government's lies and propaganda about a non existent 2nd Gulf of Tonkin attack on a US destroyer could be used to hoodwink Americans into supporting the USA's involvement in the Vietnam war.
See below how it was finally admitted that the US and Britain conspired (not a conspiracy theory this time, a conspiracy fact) to overthrow the democratically elected government in Iran when the Iranian PM threatened to put a dent in the profits of the British owned and controlled Iranian oil industry. Part of the CIA/MI6 plot known as Operation Ajax involved the use of false flag terror tactics.
A 'great venture': overthrowing the government of Iran
by Mark Curtis From Lobster 30
This is a slightly abridged version of part of chapter four of Mark Curtis's book The Ambiguities of Power: British Foreign Policy since 1945 (Zed Press, 1995).
* * *
In August 1953 a coup overthrew Iran's nationalist government of Mohammed Musaddiq and installed the Shah in power. The Shah subsequently used widespread repression and torture in a dictatorship that lasted until the 1979 Islamic revolution. The 1953 coup is conventionally regarded primarily as a CIA operation, yet the planning record reveals not only that Britain was the prime mover in the initial project to overthrow the government but also that British resources contributed significantly to the eventual success of the operation. Two first-hand accounts of the Anglo-American sponsorship of the coup - by the MI6 and CIA officers primarily responsible for it - are useful in reconstructing events. (1) Many of the secret planning documents that reveal the British role have been removed from public access and some of them remain closed until the next century - for reasons of 'national security'. Nevertheless, a fairly clear picture still emerges. Churchill later told the CIA officer responsible for the operation that he 'would have loved nothing better than to have served under your command in this great venture'. (2)
In the 1950s the Anglo Iranian Oil Company (AIOC) - later renamed British Petroleum - which was managed from London and owned by the British government and British private citizens, controlled Iran's main source of income: oil. According to one British official, the AIOC 'has become in effect an imperium in imperio in Persia'. Iranian nationalists objected to the fact that the AIOC not only made revenues from Iranian oil 'greatly in excess of the revenues of the Persian government but [it] dominates the whole economic life of Persia, and therefore impairs her independence'. (3) The AIOC was recognised as 'a great foreign organisation controlling Persia's economic life and destiny'. The British oil business fared well from this state of affairs; the AIOC made £170 million in profits in 1950 alone. (4)
snip
When the coup scenario finally began, huge demonstrations proceeded in the streets of Tehran, funded by CIA and MI6 money, $1 million dollars of which was in a safe in the US embassy (57) and £1.5 million which had been delivered by Britain to its agents in Iran, according to the MI6 officer responsible for delivering it. (58)
According to then CIA officer Richard Cottam, 'that mob that came into north Tehran and was decisive in the overthrow was a mercenary mob. It had no ideology. That mob was paid for by American dollars.' (59) One key aspect of the plot was to portray the demonstrating mobs as supporters of the Communist Party - Tudeh - in order to provide a suitable pretext for the coup and the assumption of control by the Shah. Cottam observes that agents working on behalf of the British 'saw the opportunity and sent the people we had under our control into the streets to act as if they were Tudeh. They were more than just provocateurs, they were shock troops, who acted as if they were Tudeh people throwing rocks at mosques and priests'. (60) 'The purpose', Brian Lapping explains, 'was to frighten the majority of Iranians into believing that a victory for Mussadeq would be a victory for the Tudeh, the Soviet Union and irreligion'. (61)
http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/articles/l30iran.htm
hack89
(39,171 posts)that there is an active Iranian anti-government group that they cannot suppress?