California becomes First State in Nation to Ban 'Gay Cure' Therapy for Children
Last edited Mon Oct 1, 2012, 09:54 AM - Edit history (1)
Source: nbc news
Updated at 12:34 p.m. ET: California has become the first state in the nation to ban therapy that tries to turn gay teens straight.
Gov. Jerry Brown announced Sunday that he has signed Senate Bill 1172, which prohibits children under age 18 from undergoing sexual orientation change efforts. The law, which goes into effect Jan. 1, prohibits state-licensed therapists from engaging in these practices with minors.
Governor Brown today reaffirmed what medical and mental health organizations have made clear: Efforts to change minors' sexual orientation are not therapy, they are the relics of prejudice and abuse that have inflicted untold harm on young lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Californians Clarissa Filgioun, board president of Equality California, said in a press release.
Kate Kendell, executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, added: Governor Brown has sent a powerful message of affirmation and support to LGBT youth and their families. This law will ensure that state-licensed therapists can no longer abuse their power to harm LGBT youth and propagate the dangerous and deadly lie that sexual orientation is an illness or disorder that can be cured.
The bill was sponsored by Sen. Ted Lieu, D-Torrance, who said bogus and unethical practices by mental-health providers to try to change a young persons sexual orientation have resulted in irreparable psychological and emotional harm to patients.
Read more: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/30/14159337-california-becomes-first-state-in-nation-to-ban-gay-cure-therapy-for-children
Here is the Gentleman who Sponsored the bill: California State Senator (D-Torrance) Ted Lieu:
Link to his Campaign Website (He is up for relection): http://tedlieu.com/index.php
Link to his Official State Website: http://sd28.senate.ca.gov/
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)I am unaware of any laws banning child abuse being struck down.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Shuhered
(200 posts)As a physician, I ALWAYs make it a point for parents and kids to know that there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with them. I use the term gay, homosexual and lesbian freely and it helps for people to hear the words spoken as a normal word, not some abomination or synonym for stupidity ( which I correct with steel tone as well, when young whippersnappers deign to say so at my office). People just need a little guidance sometimes to do the right thing. Every state, including Minnesota, home to that Nutburger with Fries Michelle Bachmann, should have this law in place by now. It is 2012 people.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)Gay is not a disease and even if it were, therapies have to be based on medical science and not prayer.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)And thanks to Ted and Jerry.
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)Way to lead the way, California!
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)Is the Family Research Council in panic mode right now?
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)everywhere.
Tikki
(14,557 posts)and some backward heading ones, too.
But at this time we are moving forward and in some cases moving forward exponentially....
Tikki
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Torrance, my neighboring city!
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)xchrom
(108,903 posts)Teamster Jeff
(1,598 posts)is convince him/her that something is "wrong" with them. They will carry that feeling with them their whole life.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)tblue37
(65,409 posts)Shuhered
(200 posts)Kids have enough obstacles growing up. It is a form of abuse to take a child in the formative years of growth and heap onto that an unfair evaluation which is proven time and again to have lifelong detrimental effects. Kids need to know to love themselves and to recognize that they are being loved (ostensibly) in the one sanctuary where they deserve to feel safe, in their own home. I hope my state (Iowa) recognizes the benefit of such legislation soon.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Parents who go this far won't stop here.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Go down on two corn dogs, and call me in the morning.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)secondwind
(16,903 posts)MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)The whole "Gay Cure" thing is bullshit and we all know it.
I still can't support the government banning it as a practice. Some will compare it to the prefrontal lobotomies and electroshock treatments of the past and decry it as a not only regressive, but harmful course of "treatment". I can empathize.
That said, "equal rights for all people in this country" is still viewed differently by different people, and those people are all part of our electorate and entitled to a voice. As much as I disagree with them, some of my fellow Americans believe that homosexuality is an ill that can be "cured". As much as I disagree with them, I support their right to "fix" this "ailment" within the confines of their own community. I believe that legislatively depriving them of that right is wrong.
This is a "rubber meets the road" issue. Crusades aside, we all want to be able to express our personal and religious views without government intervention. I don't believe that people who have a different view should be legally banned from pursuing their beliefs.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)I see this ban more like that, it's not an opinion, it's a potentially harmful quack therapy that is being tested and used on minors.
MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)Yes, there are historic forms of treatment for perceived mental disease that cause physical and/or mental harm to the degree that they have been banned or, at least , left the mainstream.
There are people who claim that a "Gay Cure" treatment program is medically safe. They may further claim that the program is protected as a religious rite.
There are others who claim that the whole concept of "curing" somebody who is gay is abusive and should be legislatively banned.
Both groups have some validity to their argument. Where should we draw the line?
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)like it's abstract to you.
say your grandchild or niece or nephew was going through this, wouldn't you consider it child abuse?
MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)If my kid murdered somebody, I still wouldn't want him to spend his entire life in jail...but that's no way to decide public policy.
There are people who believe that circumcision is abuse. Even if I personally believed that circumcision was abusive, I still believe that the parents have the right to decide whether or not to have their child circumcised.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)The American Psychiatric Association has condemned psychiatric "treatment" which is "based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that a patient should change his/her sexual homosexual orientation."[3] It states that, "Ethical practitioners refrain from attempts to change individuals' sexual orientation."[4] It also states that political and moral debates over the integration of gays and lesbians into the mainstream of American society have obscured scientific data about changing sexual orientation "by calling into question the motives and even the character of individuals on both sides of the issue."[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy
if you're going to misrepresent opposition to this fake treatment as just a personal pique of some liberal activists, I'm going to call that a lie.
if you don't know any of the background to why it is being banned, then your opinion that it should remain legal is worthless.
MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)The APA has a medical opinion regarding conversion therapy. Millions of people hold their religious beliefs as more important than the APA's opinion.
It's my personal opinion that conversion therapy is both misguided and harmful. However, I (personally) do not put it in the same class as, say, clitoridectomy...something which I believe should be banned by law. There's a line between the freedom to raise one's child in the manner one feels appropriate and preventing harm to children. It's only my opinion, but I believe that banning a parent's right to enroll their child in conversion therapy has more pitfalls than it's worth.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)yes or no?
or are you clueless about that issue also?
again, your lack of understanding that doctor's licenses and approved medical treatments are NOT CONFERRED by religious authorities, but by medical, professional and/or governmental authorities.
STOP trying to marginalize opposition to this as somehow fringe or unofficial and a matter of personal preference.
MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)Whether it's indoctrinating homophobia, instilling intolerance, or stamping out independent thought, I believe that organized religion is a detrimental force. Yes, it's a great way to organize people and it has it's accomplishments, but it's a net negative.
That said, those who choose to adhere to such superstitions still get the same rights as the rest of us in this society. I admit that it gets dicey when it comes to what one can and can't do when raising a child, but I personally draw the line at physical harm. If I believed that parents should be legally barred from inflicting any emotional pain on their children, there'd be a LOT of people that should be in jail.
Given that we have to allow for a lot of leeway concerning peoples' particular religious kinks, I (personally) view this as more of a "circumcision" issue and less of a "torture" issue.
Just my view, feel free to hold a differing one.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)hmmm.
so you are in favor of allowing Christian Scientists withholding medical treatment from their cancer stricken kids, or withholding medical treatment from their kids who are experiencing a medical emergency.
at least that gives your other issue some context.
MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)No, I don't support denying children necessary medical attention. I don't view this issue in the same light.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)This is psychological and emotional TORTURE and ABUSE. Period.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)But it lasts a lifetime...
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)And yes, that is what you did, you just called it deciding policy.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Which this is now banning.
primavera
(5,191 posts)If, in fact, "both groups had some validity to their argument," then you'd be right that some middle ground might be appropriate. But I strongly disagree that this is the case. I think Americans need to be watchful of their tendency to believe that there must surely be two sides to every debate and therefore the truth must always lie somewhere in the middle. This fallacy blinds Americans to the reality that, in many instances, one side is simply wrong - 100% wrong. I'm sorry, but the world isn't flat, never has been, never will be. The universe does not revolve around the earth. The Holocaust did occur. And homosexuality is not an illness for which one needs to be "cured." There is no rational evidence, repeat, none, to support such a conclusion. Not merely some, but all evidence supports the irrefutable conclusion that homosexuality is a perfectly natural phenomenon occurring throughout the natural history of our own species and countless other species. The "other side of the argument" has absolutely nothing upon which to base its position other than small-minded prejudice and primitive superstition of the same variety that gave us the Salem Witch Trials. It has no place in an enlightened civilization and deserves no legitimization whatsoever.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)So if you're against this ban you should be against that one also. Mental abuse can be just as devastating as physical abuse, if not more so.
MADem
(135,425 posts)But children should not be abused by doctors or "therapists" with shaming, electric shocks, and other aversion practices that just don't work.
This has less to do with "religion" and everything to do with abusing little kids in the NAME of religion.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)I think the strongest argument, though, is that it is abusive and torturous. Let adults make the choice to be brutalized if they'd like, but don't foist that kind of crap on children.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Which doesn't view being gay as something that is abnormal, nor something that can be "changed."
dsc
(52,163 posts)If the person wishes to have the therapy when he or she is an adult then he or she can.
MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)Again, I think the whole "gay cure" thing is bullshit and probably harmful at some level. However, that's my opinion.
Any way you look at this, it's a complete argument of the fundamental gay rights issue from a medical/psychological standpoint. If a minor is involved, throw in parental rights issues.
This is a clusterfuck that I believe is best left alone. As long as nobody is mandating "treatment" like this, people shouldn't be legally barred from seeking this course of action or selecting it for their children.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)They don 't view it as abuse.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)or guilt them into not being gay anymore?
can't believe i'm reading this here, though thankfully most DUers are trying to reason with you.
FloridaJudy
(9,465 posts)Even if physical coercion isn't used?
That's psychological abuse, not therapy in my view.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)because it's a danger to the patient and has no medical benefit.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)I didn't state MY opinion, I stated that THEY don't view it as abuse. If you're going to debate, please pay attention.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)somehow equal in medical expertise to that of a priest or other religious authority.
you don't seem to know anything about this issue anyway.
MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)Hey, we disagree. I don't have a problem with that.
Our society gives status to all sorts of irrational mindsets. Is this process harmful to kids? Yes, probably 90+ percent of the time. I don't personally feel that it's more abusive than a lot of other things that we allow people to legally do to their kids.
It's just my opinion. If you want to get all ninja about it, knock yourself out.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Oh wait, you don;t, or you wouldn't be posting what you are posting.
So, all the homophobic parents and clergy and "psychologists" are just loving the kids wanting to Shock Away Teh Gay, and the evil APA wants to take away parental rights to abuse and torture their kids, 'cause it isn't abuse to them, they love their gay kids they want to mentally destroy, and only conditionally love.
Gotcha!
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Do you actually believe what you're posting???
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)just not in this manner in the state of CA at the moment.
Still free to chop off the ol' foreskin though. Because of religion dontchaknow.
MADem
(135,425 posts)abuse their child--CPS would and should be called. That's what is happening in these "deprogramming" and "pray away the gay" misadventures.
Parents get into hot water for withholding basic, lifesaving medical care from their children and the courts don't fret one whit when the children are snatched away from the fundy home to receive that chemo or radiation therapy. I see this as the flip side of that issue. Parents do not have the right to torture their children in the name of God or in an attempt to "cure" them of something that isn't a disease.
It's like trying to torture them to make them not have freckles or brown eyes. It's just a stupid thing. Anyone who thinks it is a good idea is a bad parent.
MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)...and, honestly, both the courts and myself are going to say that they have some rights in raising their child. The term "abuse" has a legal definition that varies by state law. Unless legal abuse is occurring, the parents are free to do what they feel best. As long as they adhere to the law, I have to support their right to make decisions for their minor children, as much as I may personally disagree with those decisions.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Like the parents of Adolph Hitler Campbell? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/adolf-hitler-campbell-custody-battle-nazi-names-new-jersey_n_1561046.html
If the courts decide that children are being psychologically or physically abused or tortured, they're going to vote for the children, and not for the whackadoodle views of their nutty and bigoted parents.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Don't try to make the harm out to be some figment of a minority of liberal imagination.
Don't try to marginalize substantial, informed and clinical opinions on the subject as just the personal choices of individuals on a controversial issue. It's not controversial to medical professionals PERIOD.
It's quackery and it's harmful and that's what medical professionals consider it.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Or have a right to give them discredited and unethical medical "treatments"? Links to where the courts have said the AMA and APA can be overruled by ethics boards? Links?
Bet you can find plenty links saying abusers don't think they are abusers.
dsc
(52,163 posts)the fact is this treatment at best is life altering and there is literally no evidence at all that the treatment is more effective in children than in adults much less that it is effective in children but not in adults. Thus there is no earthly reason that kids should have this forced upon them by the parents which is what occurs. The child has rights and among those is not to be tortured in the name of voodoo.
ck4829
(35,077 posts)What if a parent wants to do one of those backwards treatments?
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Because parents should have a say in how they raise their kids, and they don't see these things as abusive and harmful, so they aren't, and what the hell does the AMA and APA know anyway?
I think that sums up that poster's talking points in this thread.
hunter
(38,317 posts)We sent our kids to First Communion and Confirmation classes.
They hated it at times, but I don't figure we damaged them. As tends to happen in my family, it's possible this made them into greater skeptics and heretics than they might otherwise have been.
I don't bear any antipathy to other religions with similar practices, not even the Later Day Saints.
I think the big difference here is that when parents send their kids to "gay cures" they are singling them out in a very negative manner from the larger social community for something that is in all likelihood innate and largely random. A religion that claimed all red-head kids were potential witches, and sent them away to special psychologically abusive anti-witch training would be equally rotten.
MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)If you raise children in the Catholic faith and they're gay, they learn that they're an abomination to god and bound for hell. I don't see how trying to "cure" them is really any different.
hunter
(38,317 posts)People started coming out in my parent's generation, and my grandparents were the generation that was accepting it. Think Hollywood and San Francisco.
But if this new law stops any conservative Catholic parents from sending their suspect kids to "gay cure" therapy, what's the problem? Where does the law go wrong?
Should the state avoid stepping on the toes of religion? I don't believe that.
What do you think about parents who withhold lifesaving medical care from kids for religious reasons?
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)breathing and alive, no matter if they are straight or gay. God is a crooked prosecutor; he wants to send you to hell for existing, because a priori, before you are aware of good and bad, you are a sinner. That's extremely abusive. Original sin is a lie based on a fairy tale.
Raising a child in ANY Christian Church is abusive because you have to believe in Original Sin to be a Christian. It is the starting premise. And the cure for this magic affliction, substitutionary atonement, is unnecessary. An unnecessary and unproven cure for a made up problem, invented by church officials to keep the people shamed, scared to death, giving them their money and time so they won't go to Hell, and obedient.
Read Healing the Shame That Binds You, by John Bradshaw, Ph.D.
http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Shame-Binds-Recovery-Classics/dp/0757303234/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1349328493&sr=1-1&keywords=healing+the+shame+that+binds+you
An excerpt:
Shame is a natural feeling that, when allowed to function well, monitors a person's sense of excitement or pleasure.
But when the feeling of shame is violated by a coercive and perfectionistic religion and cultureespecially by shame-based source figures who mediate religion and cultureit becomes an all-embracing identity. A person with internalized shame believes he is inherently flawed, inferior and defective. Such a feeling is so painful that defending scripts (or strategies) are developed to cover it up. These scripts are the roots of violence, criminality, war and all forms of addiction.
What I'll mainly describe in the first part of this book is how the affect shame can become the source of self-loathing, hatred of others, cruelty, violence, brutality, prejudice and all forms of destructive addictions. As an internalized identity, toxic shame is one of the major sources of the demonic in human life. Endquote
===============
And yet people give Christianity a pass, although its doctrines spoken by its ministers destroy millions of people as children, break their will to do anything on their own, and deprive the world of millions of creative works of art and creative acts.
For further reading, read The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller. She calls this brutal authoritarian child rearing style the "poisonous pedagogy". It produces tyrants like Adolf Hitler. The parents are always right, no matter how unreasonable their demands, and the children must protect the feelings of the parents.
John Bradshaw expanded on Alice Miller's work in many books.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Including having fake "medical" treatments, which this is, as much as praying over a child instead of giving them insulin is.
I trust the AMA and APA over you.
You really are advocating and defending Gay Therapy for children, and it has NO PLACE on DU.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Too fucking bad.
Want to express your quackery?
Don't do it as a SATE LICENSED professional. Keep the voodoo in the church where it belongs.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)and you should be fucking ashamed of yourself for doing so.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)I am shocked this talk is allowed by a poster.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)something seriously wrong with that rationalization.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)There, I said it.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)That poster is atrocious.
Thank you for saying how many of us feel.
it's child abuse. it's not supporting freedom to support the right to harm a child by practicing one's quack theories on them.
some will commit suicide specifically because of this bogus, unapproved "treatment".
and you think it's a matter of rights, which is incredible, since you don't seem to think the child has any.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)I am appalled that you defend something that has proven to cause way more harm that good on people who do NOT want it pushed on them. You seem fine with it. Some people are Grade A "assholes" in my book.
MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)I view clitoridectomy and this as different issues.
To be clear, I'm not "fine" with it. I personally believe that it's abhorrent. I also believe that others have different beliefs and that they feel as strongly as I. I have the right to teach my child that sexual orientation doesn't make one "good" or "bad"and that being gay or straight is like being black or white...it's a difference that really doesn't matter. If I believe that I have this right, I also have to admit that people with differing viewpoints have the right to teach their children according to their beliefs. I don't like it, but I do believe that a parent has the right to tell their kids that Jews are evil. I believe that they have the right to tell them that being gay is an "abomination before god".
I don't agree and I believe that we'd all be a lot better off if we got past silly issues like this, but I (with serious personal reservations) support a parent's right to raise their child with the belief system of their choice.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)As you have stated over and over and over in this thread,
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Stop contradicting yourself.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Your posts tell me all I need to know about you. You are truly disgusting. You can overuse quotation marks all you want. The fact that you are fine with children being put through a fully discredited system that has been proven to be harmful to a person's mental health is horrendous.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)FarawayBlue
(1 post)but about state licensing standards. But basically I agree with you. If the want to circumvent the law, they can just do the therapy as a religious "healing". Laws like this smack of legislating values and don't really solve any problems. We should leave that kind of stuff the of religious right.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)from operating!
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)It's hate wrapped up in the trappings of junk science and unethical medicine, no different than the "theories" of Eugenics and The Master Race, or how Blacks are 't as intelligent as Whites.
I find your post appalling, and it has no place here. None.
Heywood J
(2,515 posts)His parents, devoutly religious members of a Pentecostal church that believes in such manifestations, knew that much to be true...
So Diego Zepeda-Cordera called his friend Alex Osegueda, a fellow member of the Missionary Church of Christ and a man of equal devotion, to help him rid his son of the evil. They had no idea the seven days of forced confinement it took to drive away the devil would also, literally, drain the life out of Walter.
He lost nine litres of fluid as he lay strapped with men's ties to metal chairs in the basement apartment he shared with his family in this western Ontario city. Ultimately he died of dehydration.
Where's your respect for not "legislatively depriving them of that right" and "express[ing] our personal and religious views without government intervention"?
http://pbdba.lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?p=228720&s=societe
The parents -- who had been investigated a year earlier for failing to get medical help for a child scalded by boiling water -- had this time hit their children with belts, electrical cords and the wire handle of a fly swatter, according to the children.
During the investigation, child welfare workers seized a Church of God parenting guide in the home that told parents children as young as six months should be beaten with a rod.
Does the "rubber meet the road" there for you? Or do you "empathize" with the dead and beaten?
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Don't you get it that this practice is based on hatred and fear? You support the so called 'equal rights' of people who do harm to others on the basis of religion, when in reality they're doing harm on the basis of their own ignorant fears and prejudices.
How do you feel about the witch hunts in Salem? They were a community. Is killing women on the basis of believing them to be witches a right you would uphold?
Based on your comments you probably think it is.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)He actually had the nerve to tell us in the GLBT group that (direct, unaltered quote here) "You people really need to lighten up a bit."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113720160#post31
MercutioATC is as homophobic as they come.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)this is not preventing grownup from conversion therapy
it is dangerous and even life-threatening abuse and quackery
the State is right to protect its minor citizens in this manner. Hopefully the law will be adopted widly by every other state (although I fear as mentioned elsewhere, some states may capitalize on making it an import practice. I am thinking of the bible-boot camps that people I know got sent to in places like Texas)
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)Because this is what it is.
Leads to suicide in many.
Glad to know you are for the death and explotation of minors.
What the fuck are you doing on a Progressive website?
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)Kids can't choose their religious community, and don't have the power to defend or protect themselves from it.
If they want to undergo this 'treatment' as adults, then fine for them - it's their choice. But this is a ban on doing this to teenagers, which is child abuse, in my opinion.
Response to MercutioATC (Reply #21)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to MercutioATC (Reply #21)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
jmowreader
(50,560 posts)The Gay can't be prayed away.
Way too many people have sent their gay kids to this treatment. When it fails, as it always does, the kids are led to believe they are at fault for rejecting God, and many commit suicide.
The truth is that you can no more cure a gay person of being gay than you can cure me of having size 9 feet. Claiming that you can screws the kid - he is going to be as gay as he was, but now he's more depressed about it. It screws the parents - they think that by sending their gay kid to this they'll get back a nice normal Republican boy who will get married and give them adorable grandkids, and it won't. It also screws the parents' bank account - praying away the gay isn't cheap.
This is as harmful as prescribing apricot pits for cancer or any of the other quack cures of the 1800s, and should be banned everywhere.
sakabatou
(42,158 posts)Response to trailmonkee (Original post)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
valerief
(53,235 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Paladin
(28,265 posts)The sort of bloodless, uber-rational opposition on display here is exactly the approach our resident Gun Enthusiasts use to promote their right wing viewpoints on firearms policy.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Third Doctor
(1,574 posts)ronnie624
(5,764 posts)William769
(55,147 posts)Socal31
(2,484 posts).....are extreme hypocrites who get caught with a meth pipe and a male prostitute in their car.
Why is this even an issue?
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)on the ballot to make sure it is never banned here. I wish my state wasn't so hateful and homophobic. I fucking hate my state sometimes.
Glad to see at least one state has the compassion and intelligence to end this horrible, life threatening practice against children. Props to Senator Lieu and the state of California.
K&R&L
Shuhered
(200 posts)As a gay man living in Iowa, and over the age of 40, this is good news. I take care of a variety of people and kids just do NOT need any further stigma attached to their already tumultuous adolescent years. My Father, may he rest in peace, was supportive of my stress when I came out to him. After assuring me that he still loved me, he did offer me some 1-800 number to call for a cure to my gayness. In 1987, at age 23, I never made the call ( mostly just because instincts told me that it would be ridiculous). I served in the Navy and was out to everyone--my language skills in Arabic likely helped not get thrown out. I did my job and demanded the same respect I gave to others. I love being gay and all the advantages it accords on lifestyle. One can make a tremendous difference in lives through foundations, monetarily help with youth who often have little or no support once they come out. Friendships are true and long-lasting as well in the gay world owing to the safety in numbers idea.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Thank you for all you have done.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)marmar
(77,082 posts)Politicub
(12,165 posts)David Zephyr
(22,785 posts)Easy.
K&R.
kat22
(4 posts)Would the opponents of this bill consider the opposite therapy in which straight kids are turned gay? I think not.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)it's abuse to try to force someone to change their orientation, change who they are. Pure and simple.
Welcome to DU.
libodem
(19,288 posts)Soon!