Border Patrol agent kills woman near San Diego as he rides on hood of car that ran into him
Source: Associated Press
Border Patrol agent kills woman near San Diego as he rides on hood of car that ran into him
By Associated Press, Published: September 28 | Updated: Saturday, September 29, 12:46 AM
CHULA VISTA, Calif. — A Border Patrol agent fatally shot a 32-year-old mother of five Friday in suburban San Diego as he rode on the hood of her car after she ran into him, authorities and family members said.
The agent fired after being driven several hundred yards on the hood, Chula Vista police Capt. Gary Wedge told The Associated Press. The woman was later identified in a police statement as Valeria Alvarado.
The shooting occurred about five miles north of the Mexican border as plainclothes agents were looking to serve a felony warrant in the area to someone other than Alvarado, Border Patrol Deputy Chief Rodney Scott told U-T San Diego.
Scott said the agent was stuck atop the car as Alvarado drove.
Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/border-patrol-agent-kills-woman-near-san-diego-as-he-rides-on-hood-of-car-that-ran-into-him/2012/09/28/2d9f19be-09cd-11e2-9eea-333857f6a7bd_story.html
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graham4anything
(11,464 posts)amnesty and instant path to citizenship for all in 2013.
and get rid of the corrupt border patrol.
Rest in peace Miss Alvarado.Sympathies to your family and friends.
as usual guns kill. a corrupt agent kills someone who accidentally ran into him.
again, punishment does not fit the allegation. Judge/Jury/Guns.
and 5 kids have no mother.
my heart weeps.
trouble.smith
(374 posts)Response to trouble.smith (Reply #2)
Post removed
trouble.smith
(374 posts)
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)If he didn't identify himself as a cop, just pulled a gun and ordered her to stop, running him over would be the reasonable course of action for the woman. It would be mighty hard to draw a gun while surfing a hood, so he might have had it out when she hit him. That situation would put him in the wrong rather than her. Of course I have no idea what actually happened, I'm just saying there are ways that this could be his fault, and they're not particularly far fetched.
*shrug* There's not enough information to say one way or the other.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Now I've heard everything. What a load of BS.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)talk about a load of shit
when cops kill and unarmed person, they are guilty til they prove they had a reason to shoot to kill as if they were Rambo
randome
(34,845 posts)That he just decided on the spur of the moment to shoot someone? Or that he was in a very real danger of sliding off the car and getting run over?
If we're going to be in the business of judging a story based on few facts, why not go with the most plausible explanation?
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)seems to me someone could be killed being thrown from the outside of a car after killing the driver who then crashes (maybe into a tree or building???)
for the police system to work, one always has to start with their using excessive force, then having the facts conform to that, not vice versa
randome
(34,845 posts)'Riding' outside a car? You make it sound like a joy ride. Neither you nor I were there so we don't know every circumstance involved. But from what little we do know, it doesn't sound like an abuse of force.
Just going by what few facts we have and not making any conclusions.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Most cops are good honest cops trying to make their communities a little safer, but you usually only hear about the bad ones because it makes for better news, and the bad ones should be exposed and dealt with, but you're saying that all cops are racist criminals which is a vile comment and you should edit or delete your comment above.
crim son
(27,464 posts)but we therefore know that time and time again, those bad ones get off with a slap on the wrist. Nobody disputes that most cops are good people, but when good people cover up, ignore or defend the crimes of bad people they become less good.
Edited for content
WeekendWarrior
(1,437 posts)I was always under the impression that we had a legal system that considered people innocent until proven guilty. Quite the opposite of what you're saying.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)without any consideration as to her possible innocence. Do you apply that principle to all the people who have been killed by cops who become judge, jury and executioner? A life was lost. Sometimes in a rush to defend law enforcement, lives seem to have little value.
I believe in innocent until proven guilty, not just for cops, but for everyone.
WeekendWarrior
(1,437 posts)And until the facts are brought into evidence in a court of law, it's important to presume that EVERYONE was innocent here. You can't simply ASSUME that you know what the truth is—that's the whole point of the notion innocent until PROVEN guilty.
To assume that the cops became judge, jury and executioner when you don't really have the facts in front of you, is wrong. Period.
And if the facts bear this out in court, and a jury finds them guilty, then they should be appropriately punished.
randome
(34,845 posts)Amazing, isn't it?
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)I'm a cop and a good one at that and I have tangled with him before. He has some really strange ideas of what our constitution allows for, like, he feels that criminals should be dealt with by any and all means whether constitutional or not, he believes that Mike Bloomberg is his hero and that his nanny state views are the greatest. He believes that citizens have no right to defend themselves even when being attacked, he even stated that killing a criminal that's attacking someone is bad because that criminal could one day find the cure for cancer or AIDS. I shit you not, this guy/gal is way out there with his views.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)I think Zimmerman is guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt, and unlike what you say, I think
most criminals are only that due to circumstances (like racism) beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I don't much like cops, but told you in the other thread I wouldn't argue that point in that thread.) As long as there is one bad cop, and the good cops don't want to out the bad ones, all are suspect til proven guilty.
and yes, guns kill, bullets kill and I like Mike Bloomberg and want him to spend his money making the fight with the NRA equal.
No, he is not my hero, I would say LBJ might be, Mark Rudd might be, FDR might be, and Barack Obama currently is, but I do like Mike.
I believe one should walk away and not fight, takes a real man to back off.
and if there were opportunities for all (especially minorities,) and people would stop being racist, there would be no gangs needed. Gangs just provide any group througout history something or someway to feed their family and feel wanted. Most street crime is to feed themselves (sort of like lying gun lovers saying they kill deer so they have food).
And get rid of guns, you get rid of most killings. Get rid of crime, you get rid of the need for guns.
And stockpiling guns like the Wackos at Waco got them justice from Janet Reno, who btw is also a hero of mine. Took a lot of years to learn how great Janet was. (because of the spin meisters out there.)
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)but your words are there for all to look up. You have stated time and time again that Hero Mike is going to use his billions to break the NRA, that's your own words, you have stated that Pres. Obama is justified in protecting the country by any and all means, even if it's unconstitutional, you have stated that cops can stop crime by any and all means, whether constitutional or not.
You, my friend, have a strange view of the Constitution and the BoR.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Obama is doing WHAT CONGRESS AUTHORIZED A PRESIDENT TO DO.
Like it or not, CONGRESS AUTHORIZED IT.
And I do believe a president should never cede power it was 100% legally given. No matter which president.
And that my friend IS CONSTITUTIONAL.
You are misinterpreting the constitution as to powers. Obama has done nothing that wasn't authorized by congress TO FIGHT THE WAR ON TERROR.
Don't like Bush? Make sure Jeb don't become 45 in 2016 and Hillary defeats him soundly.
And sorry, #2 is misinterpreted by you, and only THIS CURRENT SUPREME COURT AND THE NRA MONEY MACHINE keeps that interpretation going. Some day, somewhere we will have a different court and maybe a different interpretation.
and someday we will have something to make ammo obsolete (much like the physical act of going to a clinic or backalley to have an abortion will become obsolete by new medicine that is 100% effective.)
just like cigarettes are now considered bad and 90% of America has gotten away from them, and the KKK is spit upon when they march (though I personally would consider them terrorists not worthy of free speech).
and you could look my words up.
wish the board I used to be on didn't disappear overnight that now one can't even find the cache in google of anymore, so that one could have followed the 80,000 posts I had made there, and how my positions evolved from 2004 to the present.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)and I am done with you. Your hatred of LEO came through loud and clear with your first post of this thread. If you have any decency at all, you would edit or delete that post.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)all Good cops should agree to get rid of all bad cops and to tear down the fabled blue wall of silence (and don't deny it does not exist.)
I stand by my opinion, you of course have a right to disagree, but not distort my opinion.
(btw-for those that do not know-in NYC at least, police have a couple of days to concoct a story before they need to be questioned on it, and the police conspire with each other to make the best spin out of a story. Very rarely will a police officer speak out against another officer, and once having done so, it marks that officer and puts that officer in danger the next time they are with the "bad" officer. So officers to protect themselves don't tell the truth when questioned it appears.
That is the blue wall of silence and why cops get away with murder.
one would think the good ones want to get rid of the bad ones, but it isn't necessarily true.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)as long as the "good" cops don't do anything, except stand by, and let the bad cops get away with murder and torture. And, by and large, that's exactly what they are doing.
All the rest that Graham4anything says, I can't comment on, because I didn't see the posts, but it looks like you are characterizing those posts in a manner that is less than honest.
randome
(34,845 posts)That doesn't even make sense on the face of it.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)with cops and Prosecutors for some 23 years now, and since many of them are my friends I get to hear all the stories - the good, the not-so-good and the just God awful. I can honestly say that in all that time I have never heard of more than a couple of bad cops. Most cops are in fact people just like you and me, those you will find in any other walk of life - hard working, decent and with a generally shitty job to perform. In addition, the rise in the level of violence against law enforcement which has transpired over the last 20 years or so creates a level of stress in law enforcement persons which plays havoc with their emotional well-being as well as creating an atmosphere which is generally deadly for their marriage. Don't be so fast to try and tar the large bunch of good cops with the actions of the very few bad ones.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)everything you said is 100% spot on.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)just pisses me off. It's a hard, thankless profession. We're lucky there are still people willing to take the burden of this profession on to protect the rest of us.
you know nothing about us obviously. I'm a good cop, have been for almost 30 years now and I find your comment as vile as Graham4anything's comments.
You say you can't comment because you haven't read his posts and then you accuse me of being less than honest, if you haven't read his posts, then how do you know I'm being less than honest?
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)It follows that your characterization of his other posts (which I have not read) would follow the same pattern.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)notice he got a post hidden for his outrageous comments, so until you read his other posts, you have no basis to accuse me of being dishonest.
FWIW, I really don't care what you think of my characterizations of his post HERE.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)FWIW, I'm glad you don't care. Good for you.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)just click where it says "show", then you can read his vile post.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)Would you happen to know where I can find the post that he is referring to?
I wonder why it's hidden if you can read it anyway? Seems like that kind of defeats the purpose.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"I don't much like cops, but told you in the other thread I wouldn't argue that point in that thread.) As long as there is one bad cop, and the good cops don't want to out the bad ones, all are suspect til proven guilty. .."
Odd that line of reasoning-- a close friend of mine who's RW believes that very same thing about Muslims.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)I just wanted people to see where he is really coming from.
Thank you for the kind words. 
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)That's insane. What about the many, many criminals who've snuffed out thousands of potentially brilliant lives for a few bucks or just thrills?
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)It's in this thread, makes for some interesting reading of posts from him.
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/117274760
Kind of bizarre really.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I'm for that, waiting for facts. For everyone. What is your opinion on extending that principle to civilians also?
randome
(34,845 posts)Which is why those who claimed the BP agent shot someone simply because he was in the mood appear to now be wrong.
The facts that are dribbling out appear to support the idea that this woman was as much to blame for what happened as anyone else.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)hood of the car. So it seems you have accepted the facts that are dribbling from the police and have given no consideration to the facts told by eyewitnesses.
If you believe in what you said here, you would want to hear the woman's side of this story from the pov of witnesses who were there before deciding a mother of five deserved to die.
She was a beautiful woman, as described by her friends, and now there are five more children in this violent society we live in, who have lost a mother for the rest of their lives.
It's instructive how quickly, reading comments on articles about this story, people on the far right believed the cops and simply assumed with no evidence whatsoever, that she must be a druggie running from the cops. And wrongfully assumed she was an 'illegal'. Like you they have accepted the cops' story but there is other information that questions that story.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)She most certainly did strike the agent and she knew that they were LE.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/oct/03/tp-chula-vista-police-woman-tried-to-flee/
Or are you another one of those cop haters who won't believe anything the cops say despite the what the evidence says?
grantcart
(53,061 posts)of a law enforcement officer serving a warrant on an alien drug trafficker and used her car to assault an officer who then used his weapon to defend his life.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=254456
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)now Graham4anything owes an apology although I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for one.
Oh yeah, he can't post here because he had a post hidden. 
Thanks for posting that update, it would seem that the BP agent is vindicated at this point.
Suji to Seoul
(2,035 posts)how can we let more non-whites into this great WASP country of ours. We need to keep our blood blue and pure.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Her kids. Several hundred yds. worth.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Or would you like to just keep it as an open invitation?
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)open ended of course.
Isn't that what the Statue of Liberty implores to all people anywhere?
Unless you are a Native American, you or your relatives came from somewhere as did everyone else
That is what makes America the melting pot of the world.
tear down the fences and let the sun shine in.
Missycim
(950 posts)just before most of the rest of us.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)If and when a driver accidentally runs into someone and then proceeds to drive away with that person hanging on for dear life, it stops being an accident and becomes A CRIME.
While there are corrupt members of law enforcement, you have absolutely no reason to smear this particular person as you do not know anything about him other than he almost got killed by someone who drove for several hundred yards with him on the hood. If you waited until the facts were in before spouting off, you would sound a lot more credible.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If I believed I was being carjacked, attempted to escape, and the carjacker hung onto my car, I assure you the episode would not end well for the carjacker.
The whole setup is missing from this very brief news article. I would like to know more about how the officer came to be on this woman's hood.
alp227
(32,044 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)but your posts close o being the dumbest I have ever read.
Shitty Mitty
(138 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 3, 2012, 03:03 PM - Edit history (3)
And off to ignore goes several more...
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)Please share
Shitty Mitty
(138 posts)"Border Patrol" agents don't exactly value people who don't have "white names." I shouldn't have to explain it.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)It seems like you are defending Border Patrol agents who "don't value people who don't have white names."
Beacool
(30,250 posts)So the guy should have just kept riding on the hood of her car until she finally decided to stop????
Please........
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)The chief of the Chula Vista PD, which is handling the investigation at the moment, is Mr. David Bejarano.
He has an extensive background in law enforcement, including serving as a US Marshal.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)you should delete this.
Shitty Mitty
(138 posts)Some people have no goddamn reading comprehension. How the FUCK could anyone mistake my post for supporting the BPA? And how in hell is it racist? LOL damn some people can't fucking read. I wouldn't have to deal with this if I were a 1,000+ post poster.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)nobody here is mistaking you for supporting the BPA, you made it extremely clear that you think the BPA are racist. It wouldn't matter how many posts you have, racists comment are racists comment.
Response to Shitty Mitty (Reply #7)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)The article provides few details...the agent was in plain clothes, which may explain why the poor woman drove several hundred yards with him on the hood...but no details about just how she hit him, how fast she was going, or whether she made any attempt to dislodge him. I know one thing for sure, she was scared out of her mind...and I rather imagine the agent was as well...but he had the gun. Hope we get more information.
randome
(34,845 posts)Seems to me that he was in a life-threatening situation. Amazing how some DUers want to jump to conclusions.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)I said he was scared out of his mind as well. I am always disappointed when DUers assume conclusions clearly not offered.
randome
(34,845 posts)Just thinking out loud. 
Sorry if it came across wrong.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)I haven't seen any additional info....
4lbs
(6,858 posts)EDIT:
By the way, this happened about several miles from where I live, but I was at work at the time.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Why were they in plain clothes? Why did they try to stop the lady if she had nothing to do with the case?
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Many years ago I had a under cover cop run out between 2 parked cars and I nearly hit him and I was not speeding-the cops were going after some people or person on the other side of the street which since I was driving I was not seeing what was going on but figured it out and got the hell out of there since I did not know what was going to happen next
This guy must of been a little behind the rest since I did not see others crossing the street before getting to the area he sprinted out of or he came out of one of the cars
-but of course -the cop yelled obscenities at me (with young children in the car) when I screeched to a halt cuz it was my fault he ran out on the street from a blind spot in to traffic of course
I am assuming they were cops because he did not look like other people in the area and something was going down on the other side of the street
............from the article
The agent was taken to a hospital with unknown injuries, although witnesses said he appeared to be OK.
Family members identified the woman as Valeria “Monique” Alvarado, a 32-year-old housewife who grew up in Chula Vista and lived in Southcrest. She died at the scene.
She had five children, ranging in ages 3 to 17.
“I love her to the fullest. That’s my heart,” said her husband, Gilbert Alvarado, before choking up.
“.............
Authorities did not release further information, including how the agent was struck.
Chula Vista police said the crash occurred on Moss closer to Broadway, and the car drove west, coming to rest near Oaklawn. A large dent was left in the windshield where the officer had impacted, police said.
Witnesses gave differing versions of how the shooting unfolded, including whether they saw the agent on the car.
Hector Salazar, who lives in the area, said he was standing at his mailbox looking through letters when he heard a man yell, “Stop!”
He looked up and saw a man in civilian clothing on the hood of a two-door car, aiming a gun at the windshield.
The man then started pulling the trigger, shooting about five rounds.
Salazar hit the ground, and moments later saw other plainclothes agents approach the car.
Eduardo Comacho, 22, was walking on Woodlawn Avenue with his friend when they heard about seven shots.
He saw a man in a red shirt, without a badge, holding his gun. He appeared shaken. Other undercover officers joined him, pulling out their badges as they walked.
“The lady was hanging out the door, barely moving,” Comacho said. The agents checked her pulse, and medics who arrived shortly after began CPR on her on the ground. Comacho could see what appeared to be bullet wounds in her chest, shoulder, arm and leg.
“He did not miss,” Comacho said.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)That seems reasonable.
kirby
(4,442 posts)Some random plainclothes guy is somehow on your hood (unsure how that happened) and he is yelling at you and then pulls a gun.
In an area where there might be drug violence, kidnapping, robberies, or what not, I am not sure my instinct as a driver would be to calmly stop so that an armed gunman could approach me. I would more likely want the guy off my car hood.
How he got on the hood is not clear and the news article quote about 'stuck in the windshield' seems odd. I would think as an officer your instinct would be to roll off the damn car, not draw a weapon and fire. Seems like a complete overreaction and too much force to me.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)There doesn't seem to be any dispute about how he ended up on the hood of the car.
I am not sure my instinct as a driver would be to calmly stop so that an armed gunman could approach me.
I can see mowing down someone who drew a gun on me who was not obviously a law enforcement officer, but nothing in the article indicates that he drew his gun before he was on top of the car.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)She said she happened to look out the window to see the Honda backing up slowly, and a man in a red shirt walking toward the car.
“Then I heard, ‘Pop, pop, pop,’” she said. She yelled at her children and aunt with her in the apartment to get down.
Apartment resident Prince Watson said he also saw the driver going in reverse, with no one on the car.
“She wasn’t speeding or driving erratic at all. I heard the agent say, ‘Stop.’ He was in the street and started shooting and walking toward the car,” Watson recalled.
Authorities did not name who they were going to arrest, but said it was not the woman.
Christian Ramirez, an immigrant rights activist with Southern Border Community Coalition, said the shooting was “troubling.”
“The victim was not wanted by authorities and she was a U.S. citizen,” Ramirez said.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)From the same article.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts) Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Did she hit the guy in civilian clothes waving a gun around?
Did he roll off the car at some point?
Did he then shoot her as she backed away?
That would seem to be consistent with the eyewitness accounts. But it's not clear.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)not enough info yet, and yet, there are a couple of posters here, one in particular, that have ready to convict the agent. I direct your attention to post #1
graham4anything (497 posts)
1. the criminals are the border patrol racists
amnesty and instant path to citizenship for all in 2013.
and get rid of the corrupt border patrol.
Rest in peace Miss Alvarado.Sympathies to your family and friends.
as usual guns kill. a corrupt agent kills someone who accidentally ran into him.
again, punishment does not fit the allegation. Judge/Jury/Guns.
and 5 kids have no mother.
my heart weeps.
As Abraham Lincoln stated, “We could not secure the good we did secure if we grasped for more".
As a cop myself, comments like this just sickens me.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)And I'm not a cop. There's no amount of money anyone could pay me to go to work every day wondering if I'll get killed before the end of my shift.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Being a cop doesn't even rank in the top ten most dangerous professions.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)I'm pretty sure you have. Do you think you could draw it while sliding around on the hood of a moving vehicle without falling off?
I dunno. There's not enough information to guess either way. That pretty much means not giving either side the benefit of the doubt.
kirby
(4,442 posts)Of course there is, that is one missing piece of info. There is even contradicting eyewitnesses.
Was the lady talking on the phone and not paying attention and ran into a pedestrian, then freaked out when the guy pulled a gun out?
Did the plainclothes guy think this lady was fleeing some scene and he jumped in front of the car trying to stop her but she didnt see him?
Did the lady somehow know he was a border patrol agent and ran into him trying to flee?
Was this a murder being covered up as a 'hit and run'?
None of this is known yet.
Most accidents are accidents. I mean one second this lady is focused on something and then to her in the next split second some guy in on her hood yelling stop! That would freak me out.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Was he in plainclothes attempting to stop her, and leading her to believe she was a carjacking victim?
Way too little information here to form an opinion.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...and she didn't know he was an officer, then one thing could have just led to another.
deathrind
(1,786 posts)There is alot unknown here...if the BP agent was in plain clothes as stated chance are this lady had no idea who he was beyond a man with a gun. If i was driving and had some guy in front of me with a gun and no id... id hit the gas too.Hard to believe a mother of five would suddenly go homical like that out of nowhere. But anything is possible.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)That's a big unknown.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)The dead woman is a 32-year-old housewife. There is no allegation of criminality on her part (prior to this incident where she ends up dead). She was not the target of the raid.
The BP agent was in plain clothes.
There are conflicting accounts about whether the agent was actually on the car when he shot her, or even whether he was ever on the car.
You have some eyewitnesses saying he was standing in the street and shot her as she backed away.
Of course the cop "feared for his life." That's the boilerplate language they use every time they kill somebody.
What is not clear from any of these accounts that I've seen is how the interaction between Alvarado and the agent began. Most young housewives don't go out of their way to run over cops. Maybe Alvarado was a secret cartel hitwoman out to kill cops whenever she could. Maybe she just got scared and drived to leave the scene when some unidentified guy started waving a gun at her. I suspect the it's closer to the latter than the former.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)How about we wait for the investigation to finish?
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)The heat needs to stay on with these suspicious law enforcement killings. First, to let law enforcement know we are watching, and second, to ensure that the investigation doesn't end up in the circular file.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)when in all these stories over the years, the cops shoot people 41 or 50 times, and are like the ones who beat up Rodney King and then try to cover it up and blame the victim while they keep beating up the victim
(or worse, like the New Orleans cops on Danzinger Bridge who killed or attempted to kill any black who dared to want to find dry land.)
And defending the gun loving Zimmerman's out there to in cold blood shoot to kill anyone then claim self defense for cold blooded stalkings and asssasssinations.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Show me where I have spun anything about all cops as being perfect? Your hatred of cops is so obvious that you have to make up stories about me now and try to smear me.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)That is a vile fucking lie.
Retract it.
valerief
(53,235 posts)I was driving through Kentucky once (I'm from New England) when a car was tailgating me. I put on my flashers so he'd back off. I even waved him away in a "back off" motion. Instead, lights turned on in his car and he got even closer. I was driving through the middle of nowhere alone, so I was scared. I gunned the gas, ready to take the next exit. It occurred to me he might be a cop in a normal car decked out with lights. It also occurred to me he might be an axe murderer in a normal car decked out with lights.
I took the next exit and pulled into a gas station. I wanted to be around other people when I got out of the car. I got out and he got out. I asked, "Are you a police officer?" He said he was and he chased me, because he thought I was having a fit (when I waved him away a couple of times as I was driving). I knew he was pissed I had the gall to turn on my flashers when he was tailgating me and he should have just driven around me, but I didn't say that. He was clearly an asshole.
I was obviously upset and frightened, but he could see I wasn't drunk or high. I forget what we said--nothing accusatory--and he let me go. It probably helped that I'm white. God knows what would have happened if I weren't. I might have been shot dead.
Strelnikov_
(7,772 posts)Graphic reporting by media of kidnappings and bloody mass killings by cartels at roadblocks.
Bunch of guys with guns that do not appear to be law enforcement blocking traffic.
Seems to me another case of the cops going after Ernest T. Bass like he was Pablo Escobar . . . and a nervous mother of five got caught in the middle.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)No wonder newspapers are going out of business. That person should be working at a salad bar...
valerief
(53,235 posts) MindPilot
(12,693 posts)What used to be a major metropolitan Daily is now a prolific source of bad writing and typos.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Doug Manchester is using the paper as a bully pulpit, even posting front-page editorials.
He's trying to buy the only other semi-viable paper in San Diego County, the North County Times.
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)Or maybe she was driving one of those trick Toyotas.
Several hundred yards?
Gman
(24,780 posts)along with pressuring the DOJ to bring civil rights violations charges. WTF?
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)The code of police solidarity is strong in Southern California. He could have walked up to her house and blown her away as she opened the door, and even admit it was "because some of those Mexicans need killing," and the police board would judge it to be "legitimate self-defense."
Gman
(24,780 posts)they are two different entities.
In any event, from the sound of the article, any board of review would be 100% correct in ruling legitimate self-defense. That's pretty clear.
randome
(34,845 posts)Thanks for pointing that out.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)The BP agent in question was doing undercover warrant work, although it's not clear about what.
People have generalized concerns about law enforcement. It doesn't matter if it's lovable Sheriff Andy in Mayberry or the FBI Swat team, it's those guys who have the power to kill you in the name of the state.
Some of the posts in this thread may, however, have been inelegantly stated, if I can go all Romney on you.
warrior1
(12,325 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)By reading a newspaper? Why not wait for the investigation to be completed? Or are you another one of those people who hate cops so much that no matter what, they're guilty?
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)until all the facts are in. Do we really want to sound like a bunch of uninformed freepers.
Yes there are bad cops, my friend got hauled in by two crooked cops and thrown into jail with a twenty thousand dollar bail because the the car he had just got out of (he was a passenger) was illegally searched. Supposedly they found two unidentified pills on the floor. They never wrote up a police report and after three court appearance with no police report the case was dismissed and my friend was out two thousand dollars bail. If I knew who they were, I would love to make their life miserable. However, that does not mean that all cops are bad.
Have you ever been stranded on a dark highway at night and a highway patrol officer stays out in the pouring rain to help you change your tire. Have you ever thought you heard someone breaking into your house in the middle of the night and within a few minutes there is a cop there to help you. There are all sorts of cops, good, bad and in between so why no give this one the benefit of the doubt and wait till the full story is told.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Those who insist we "wait for all the facts" often aren't ever satisfied all the facts are in.
As a tactic for preempting further discussion, however...
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)As all the facts are not yet known, you have no way of knowing (a) whether it will satisfy all those who want to wait for them and (b) if there will be further discussion. The Romney campaign did not wait for to learn all the facts before they started attacking the embassy staff and the Obama administration when four Americans were killed in Libya and look how stupid they made themselves look. So if that is the type of company you wish to keep, so be it.
NBachers
(17,130 posts)
Serve The Servants
(328 posts)
alp227
(32,044 posts)Further in the article:
Hector Salazar, one of several neighbors who witnessed the incident, said he saw a man in civilian clothes on the hood of a black car aiming a gun at the windshield.
Salazar told U-T San Diego the man started pulling the trigger, and he heard about five shots. Moments later, other plainclothes agents approached the car, he said.
Undisputedly, the undercover Border Patrol agents wanted to arrest someone other than Alvarado. But how did the BP'er get hit in the first place? Article doesn't say. So I searched some San Diego news outlets.
San Diego Union-Tribune 9/29:
Border Patrol officials said Friday that agents were in the neighborhood to serve a felony warrant when the agent was “assaulted with a vehicle.”
“Fearing for his life, he discharged his weapon to get the vehicle to stop,” Border Patrol Deputy Chief Rodney Scott said.
KFMB/CBS 8 9/29:
Hector Salazar, who lives nearby, told the U-T he was standing at his mailbox when he heard a man yell, "Stop!" He said he saw a man on the hood of a two-door car, aiming a gun at the windshield. He said heard five shots.
Eduardo Comacho, 22, said he was walking on Woodlawn Avenue with a friend. He told the U-T they heard about seven shots. He said he saw a man in a red shirt, without a badge, holding his gun. He appeared shaken. Other undercover officers joined him, pulling out their badges as they walked.
Also from the U-T:
If the BP agents were plainclothes, how would anyone know who they were? On the other hand, did Valeria Alvarado have some inside knowledge of Border Patrol roaming her old hometown?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Police said Valeria “Munique” Tachiquin Alvarado, 32, struck the agent Friday as she pulled the car away from the curb. A second agent reached into her Honda to remove the keys from the ignition, and she pulled forward and struck the first agent again, this time driving with him on the car’s hood.
The agent, fearing for his life, yelled “Stop!” and then pulled out his gun, firing several rounds to halt the car, officials said.
Alvarado, a married mother of five, was on probation for a 2011 drug-related conviction, police said....
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/oct/03/tp-chula-vista-police-woman-tried-to-flee/
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)sounds like self defense, but I'll wait for the official investigation and report to conclude.
uncle ray
(3,157 posts)but i'm waiting for the facts to come out.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Were they waving badges?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 3, 2012, 01:54 PM - Edit history (2)
There was no doubt the men were cops. There is much more, way too much to type on Crackberry. Stay tuned.
ETA from a real computer:
Chief Bejarano said that the BP agents involved were all displaying badges, either on chains or clipped to their belts. From his description there is no question that everyone in the apartment was aware that BP agents were looking for a known felon, and that the apartment was known to have been the location of "drug activity."
He said that the woman who was killed was on probation for a drug-related offense from 2011.
He said the BP officer who did the shooting was attempting to prevent her from driving away. She hit him with her car once, apparently not hard. A second BP officer used a special tool of some kind to break the driver's side window. He reached into the car and attempted to grab the keys, but the woman was able to drive off. She struck the first BP officer a second time, harder. He landed on the hood and may have broken the windshield.
The woman drove off and went about 200 yards. The officer on the hood was yelling at her to stop. At one point she drove into oncoming traffic to pass another vehicle. She made a U-turn. At that point the officer on the hood started shooting.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)According to police, who are leading the investigation into the shooting, a group of plainclothes agents went to an apartment on Moss Street near Oaklawn Avenue shortly before 1 p.m. with an arrest warrant for a felon who had been previously deported and had a history of drug charges.
The unit was known to have prior complaints of drug activity, police Capt. Gary Wedge said.
Alvarado was one of several people inside the apartment when four of the agents approached and identified themselves as law enforcement, Wedge said.
She replied that the man they wanted was in the shower in back, then she brushed past the agents and walked toward her car, Wedge said.
The agents alerted two other agents who were guarding the perimeter of the apartment, and they tried to stop Alvarado as she got into her Honda. She struck one of them with the car as she started to pull away, police said.
The agent, who wore a badge on his belt, told her she was under arrest for vehicular assault, while a second agent with a badge around his neck smashed the driver’s side window and tried to remove the keys, Wedge said.
Whatever anyone thinks about any of the drug laws is quite beyond the point. When you flee a law endorcement officer who is serving legal warrants and use your car to assault a law enforcement officer then you should expect them to use lethal force to defend their life.
Sivafae
(480 posts)Why were bp serving a warrant and not ice?
grantcart
(53,061 posts)I did know that Border Patrol does more intelligence work than is widely known. In coordination with Customs they identify suspicious cars or trucks at the port of entry and let them pass and the Border Patrol then follows them with plain clothes. Customs has no authority to pursue past 100 meters (not sure on the exact distance) and that is the Border Patrol responsibility.
They are looking for the safe houses where they are taking either the contraband or the human trafficking. At that point they can either make an arrest or pass the information to ICE for more detailed investigation.
To be very specific Border Patrol uses plain clothes investigators to follow hot leads generated at the border. This is how, for example, they found people were cleverly using the Salton Sea to get around a Border Patrol checkpoint:
http://usopenborders.com/2012/07/border-patrol-stops-salton-sea-boat-smuggling-attempt-2/.
So the most likely scenario on this case is like this: At San Ysidro a license plate read at a computer alerts Customs that because of the data on the car or the past on the driver that it is possible that it is 'hot' and Border Patrol authorizes it to be waived through. Then it goes to CV where it is kept under surveillance for some time. People that enter and leave the residence are cataloged and the information is given to the DEA and ICE. When they decide to pull the plug then the Border Patrol executes a search warrant to arrest the primary target that will be arrested not simply on the facts of what they found at the safe house but for the crime of transporting from the border, hence the Border Patrol involvement.
That this woman was going to a location where, it appears, was a safe house with someone just arriving from the border makes her situation look even more suspicious. Perhaps she was in the business of transporting from the Safe House to LA or something like that. The facts that she was on probation, that she fled, that she refused to obey an officer's command, that she hit the Border Patrol agent, that she then avoided another agents attempt to turn off the engine and then assaulted the BP agent a second time indicates that she knew exactly what was happening.
For me the most interesting part of this story is that I talked with about 12 agents before the additional information was made known and none of them jumped to the defense of the agent. All of them said that they had to wait for more facts and that the agent could have screwed up. At DU, not so much. A lot of jumping before the facts were known. It is also worth noting that the primary target of the warrant and all of the others were arrested without injury.
JVS
(61,935 posts)Beacool
(30,250 posts)How did she come to hit the BP agent? Why didn't she stop right away after hitting him? Did he approach her without identifying himself? Was she afraid that it was a carjacking?
Whatever the results of the investigation, I'm sorry that a young life is over and that 5 children lost their mother.
randome
(34,845 posts)But it sounds like she created the situation that killed her.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)When the PR from a PD states that the officer was fearing for his life, that only means it was the justification for the shooting. It doesn't answer the question of whether the officer acted appropriately in the events leading up to it. That initial "vehicular assault" is the one I'd like to know more about.
From the scant facts available she may have been trying to avoid the probation violation. If that's the worst of her criminal involvement it's really sad that she ended up dead.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...for a drug-related crime doing in an apartment with a known felon?
From the scant facts available she may have been trying to avoid the probation violation.
That does seem like a reasonable explanation for her apparent panic, but why was she there in the first place?
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)or went to visit a friend or relative, maybe even the felon. I could find myself in a room with a felon that way and trust me, I'm not there to do anything illegal. Growing up in a low income community means that I know a lot of felons, nearly all of them convicted for drug felonies only.
eta: and I'm also sure that I've been in the presence of felons without knowing it for the same reason.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)It's pretty clear that she know that the man she hit was a law enforcement officer.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)it was a very stressful situation, with a screaming man on her hood and another diving into the window to take away her keys. She may have simply panicked.
Again though, I have no idea who did what or for what reason. The woman may have been the head of a drug cartel for all I know. The agent may have used poor judgment in pursuing her so vigorously and by doing so created the situation which ultimately ended in her death. There's a lot that will need to be sorted out in this incident. Unlike others, I'm not willing to throw all the blame on her at this point.
randome
(34,845 posts)Unless we have a DUer as an actual witness, we are left to pick up clues where we can.
Sivafae
(480 posts)"Hey Slackmaster, can you take me to my friends house? I left my glasses over there the other night and I need them for work tonite. Why don't you come in and meet him? He's pretty cool."
One thing that infuriates me is guilt by association. There is no way that we will ever know that she knew she was in a felon's house, or that she even knew the people that lived there. It really could be an issue of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And with her legal problems, she knew she wasn't going to get out it all that easy.
"Obviously being up to no good" is in direct conflict with "presumed innocent until proven guilty."
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)crim son
(27,464 posts)But he did and, fearing for his life, he used it. Of course there is very little real information in the story as written so this is pure speculation on my part.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)How do you handle someone driving aggressively and erratically while trapped on the hood? Make them tea?
crim son
(27,464 posts)Not sure if I read post #106, however.
