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Dennis Donovan

(18,770 posts)
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 03:03 PM Mar 2020

Coronavirus May Have Spread in U.S. for Weeks, Gene Sequencing Suggests

Source: NYT

By Sheri Fink and Mike Baker
March 1, 2020
Updated 1:55 p.m. ET

Researchers who have examined the genomes of two coronavirus infections in Washington State say the similarities between the cases suggest that the virus may have been spreading in the state for weeks.

Washington had the United States’ first confirmed case of coronavirus, announced by the C.D.C. on Jan. 20. Based on an analysis of the virus’s genetic sequence, another case that surfaced in the state and was announced on Friday probably was descended from that first case.

The two people live in the same county, but are not known to have had contact with one another, and the second case occurred well after the first would no longer be expected to be contagious. So the genetic findings suggest that the virus has been spreading through other people in the community for close to six weeks, according to one of the scientists who compared the sequences, Trevor Bedford, an associate professor at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center and the University of Washington.

Dr. Bedford said it was possible that the two cases could be unrelated, and had been introduced separately into the United States. But he said that was unlikely, however, because in both cases the virus contained a genetic variation that appears to be rare — it was found in only two of the 59 samples whose sequences have been shared from China, where the virus originated.

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/health/coronavirus-washington-spread.html

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Coronavirus May Have Spread in U.S. for Weeks, Gene Sequencing Suggests (Original Post) Dennis Donovan Mar 2020 OP
Well duh . . . Iliyah Mar 2020 #1
Beat me to it! Canoe52 Mar 2020 #4
Imagine trying to explian this to Trump...(or anything to Trump) hlthe2b Mar 2020 #2
Ha.....somewhat like DENVERPOPS Mar 2020 #14
One of the experts said on TV gibraltar72 Mar 2020 #3
We weren't prepared because we didn't test everybody we should have. Igel Mar 2020 #25
Pretty elaborate hoax G_j Mar 2020 #5
no kidding! KT2000 Mar 2020 #7
Interesting how the editor enhanced ... GeorgeGist Mar 2020 #6
WA is part of the US, and people travel from WA to all over the US every day Dennis Donovan Mar 2020 #8
In sealed aluminum tubes with hundreds of other people Mr.Bill Mar 2020 #22
If it has been in Washington state for at least six weeks... Pacifist Patriot Mar 2020 #23
People are spreading this thing before they know they've been exposed, themselves Warpy Mar 2020 #9
And boost our immune systems. JudyM Mar 2020 #34
Do that by bagging the fad diets Warpy Mar 2020 #38
Actually it appears that elderberry, an antiviral, will likely work for immunity against this, as JudyM Mar 2020 #39
I've got some Elderberry capsules Captain Zero Mar 2020 #41
or never know HockeyMom Mar 2020 #42
Yep. paleotn Mar 2020 #10
Confirmed by the story today bucolic_frolic Mar 2020 #11
Supposedly that patient hadn't gone to work and was for the most part in his house, no family JudyM Mar 2020 #35
Two week incubation period. This is not going away soon. So many are/ have been infected and Evolve Dammit Mar 2020 #12
I wonder how many people fly from China to the Super Bowl ? LiberalArkie Mar 2020 #15
It's all over the world now. At least 50 countries. Not going to matter, and we are not prepared. Evolve Dammit Mar 2020 #18
I counted 70 countries on last data list posted online today, up from 50 just a couple days ago wishstar Mar 2020 #28
yikes. And we tested 420 as of last week and S. Korea tested 36,000?? Something is missing here Evolve Dammit Mar 2020 #32
Damn. JudyM Mar 2020 #36
Was in Seattle over the weekend mommymarine2003 Mar 2020 #13
Wash your hands, hang in there, and... B Stieg Mar 2020 #16
This one's out in the wild... EarthFirst Mar 2020 #17
I think you are correct, and as Katrina showed us, you are on your own. Hoping for the best, but... Evolve Dammit Mar 2020 #19
I see that coming LittleGirl Mar 2020 #21
Maybe In A Couple Months We Might Have A Few Test Kits That Work? DanieRains Mar 2020 #26
There's a company in Israel I was reading about that came up with a faster test and is ramping up JudyM Mar 2020 #37
50-50% chance. Igel Mar 2020 #27
Here in Oregon I Am Self Isolating McKim Mar 2020 #20
I'm doing exactly the same. LittleGirl Mar 2020 #24
You sound well organized with good sense. Let us know how things go. appalachiablue Mar 2020 #29
agree with you. Wish I could follow your plan. demigoddess Mar 2020 #33
I wouldn't be surprised cannabis_flower Mar 2020 #30
Dont worry, Trump has a plan itsrobert Mar 2020 #31
The number of cases is about to skyrocket Dopers_Greed Mar 2020 #40
As more local testing begins, we are going to learn that it is MineralMan Mar 2020 #43

gibraltar72

(7,508 posts)
3. One of the experts said on TV
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 03:13 PM
Mar 2020

The window opened some time ago to head this off. We weren't prepared and did virtually nothing. Here we are.

Igel

(35,332 posts)
25. We weren't prepared because we didn't test everybody we should have.
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 05:50 PM
Mar 2020

Or take the measures necessary to contain it. Those two sentences could mean anything, so I'll elaborate.

With the first word of a virus that can spread so easily while no symptoms are present there should have been lockdown. That guy getting off the plane? Might have sat next to somebody who gave it to him, but who himself doesn't know he's contracted the "illness" and won't for another week.

By the time the guy in the next seat over comes sick and they have to track down who he infected, *that* person is infectious and might have infected dozens of people.

And since that was occurring since *before* the first reported case, you'd have to be able to track everybody backwards in time for two, 4, 6, 8 weeks. Test them. And everybody they came into contact with, and those they contacted, and those *they* contacted. May as well shut down everything at that point. It might have been circulating in the US even before it was first reported in any noticeable way in China, and before it was determined it could be transferred by asymptomatic carriers. You don't check for things you don't suspect.

That's the level of competence we needed. Anything less is merely human incompetence. Then we're arguing about levels of competence, and that becomes a discussion of "how long did we drag out the process?" That's what's important: How long it takes for most to get infected. That determines the supplies required, hospital bed need, whether there'll be a vaccine in time, whether we find good palliative measures.

Those who screwed up screwed up massively *before* the first bit of politicking began, and the most serious screw ups (by which I mean "normal human behavior that doesn't involve precognition and omniscience&quot happened in China. Weeks before the Congressionally increased CDC budget became a much-publicized decrease, for instance (although community preparedness funds were cut, it's still not like all government spending is necessarily just federal and just from the CDC--that's butt-covering excuse of an accusation).

Pacifist Patriot

(24,653 posts)
23. If it has been in Washington state for at least six weeks...
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 05:45 PM
Mar 2020

it's spreading in the US. I'd be shocked if it wasn't already in the majority of US states if not all of them.

Warpy

(111,305 posts)
9. People are spreading this thing before they know they've been exposed, themselves
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 04:01 PM
Mar 2020

and probably a few days before they feel ill. That's why containment is not going to work, that window has shut tight. People who were shedding virus traveled worldwide from China for at least a week before anybody knew anything, here or there. The virus persists on surfaces after it dries out.

Good handwashing is going to be key here, along with not touching your face with your fingers. We probably can't eliminate exposure, we can only reduce it.

Warpy

(111,305 posts)
38. Do that by bagging the fad diets
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 08:26 PM
Mar 2020

and eating good food, not too much, mostly plants. Get adequate sleep. If you smoke, stop.

You know, the boring stuff that doesn't involve slamming down handsful of vitamins.

bucolic_frolic

(43,244 posts)
11. Confirmed by the story today
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 04:08 PM
Mar 2020

that the Rhode Island case visited Italy mid-February. So 1-2 weeks. This is going to explode.

JudyM

(29,251 posts)
35. Supposedly that patient hadn't gone to work and was for the most part in his house, no family
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 08:20 PM
Mar 2020

contact, either.

Hoping...

Evolve Dammit

(16,750 posts)
12. Two week incubation period. This is not going away soon. So many are/ have been infected and
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 04:31 PM
Mar 2020

have no idea. How could you?

wishstar

(5,271 posts)
28. I counted 70 countries on last data list posted online today, up from 50 just a couple days ago
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 06:09 PM
Mar 2020

Italy in just the last 2 days jumped from 900 cases to almost 1400 cases with deaths going up from 20 to 34

mommymarine2003

(261 posts)
13. Was in Seattle over the weekend
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 05:21 PM
Mar 2020

As a transplanted Washingtonian now living in the Portland, OR area, my husband and I drove up for the weekend for our grandson's 6th birthday. Having just had the first case of the virus in Oregon announced on Friday, we had quite a discussion at lunch in Tukwila about what we need to do to prepare for the probable pandemic. My youngest child works for the Seattle Fire Department, and he discussed how they are preparing for this. My son-in-law works in a care facility, so that is worrisome for him. Meanwhile, stores up there are having a rush on toilet paper, bottled water, hand sanitizer, and soap. It reminded me of when Mt. St. Helens erupted for the second time. I lived in Eastern Washington, and everyone rushed to the stores to stock up. All the bread, milk, etc. was gone.

The unknown is pretty scary, but at least Oregon and Washington have Democratic governors, so they will keep us informed.

EarthFirst

(2,901 posts)
17. This one's out in the wild...
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 05:36 PM
Mar 2020

...the next month is going to be a scene like nothing the majority of us have ever witnessed.

LittleGirl

(8,287 posts)
21. I see that coming
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 05:43 PM
Mar 2020

I think a month from now is going to be life changing.
Before the pandemic, and after the pandemic.

JudyM

(29,251 posts)
37. There's a company in Israel I was reading about that came up with a faster test and is ramping up
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 08:25 PM
Mar 2020

production, apparently ready to start shipping in 3 weeks. A number of companies are producing test kits so hopefully soon we’ll have multiple sources even though it’s for the whole world. Beyond the pale that we in the US with a good lead time didn’t jump all over this. Oh, that’s right, it’s a Dem hoax. And because it’ll be over in a April when the weather warms up.

Igel

(35,332 posts)
27. 50-50% chance.
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 06:05 PM
Mar 2020

If the grownups are in charge, it won't be bad. It'll be like a bad flu season with more than the usual number of hospitalizations.

Note that every large-scale testing run of people that *might* have contracted the disease shows a large number of people with COVID-19 but without symptoms--but that's a larger sample that's still not random. So a S. Korean sample was heavily weighted for adults, while we know kids tend to have a much greater chance of being asymptomatic. This pulls the hospitalization rate way down for most groups, but it's the kind of number that professionals have trouble with because it's a guess. And we can't stand uncertainty.

80% report relatively mild symptoms. But that's only 80% of the people reporting *any* symptoms. Most assume that that's 80% of the people with the virus, a much smaller cohort. The fact that it's been spreading for weeks unnoticed is actually a good sign for the severity of the illness, however much it may lead to panic by underinformed people who need to be confident they're smarter than the average bear. The subcohorts showing severe symptoms fall into specific categories--think "intersectionality" when it comes to risk. But the media reports gloss right over that, because it produces more viewership and more panic.

I suspect that when the dust settles and the floors are mopped the response from competent health authorities will be that China took all the proper steps for a disease that was truly, truly dangerous, albeit a bit late. But that this will turn out to be one that didn't merit all the panic building and panic oppression. Some of it was sincerely "we must address the health crisis" and part of it was eye candy for those who doubted Xi & company, "we must be seen to address the health crisis" and show that they were all studly "take charge" sorts of folk after looking like wusses with both thumbs up their collective butts.

If the idjits are in charge, it'll be a CF. People will panic, buy stuff they don't need, creating shortages. They might make caregivers' work harder, and even turn on those they suspect of carrying the "plague," because, after all, each individual is more important than the collective.

Right now smart money's on the idjits.

McKim

(2,412 posts)
20. Here in Oregon I Am Self Isolating
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 05:43 PM
Mar 2020

Here in Oregon I have to isolate. Sadly I was sick with one virus October to December then another one January to last week. This has meant a lot of time in bed and I missed a lot of social events.

These viruses made my asthma worse and I have to use a twice a day inhaler. So at 74 I decided to self isolate until this is over. I had to cancel a trip to Spain, my Spanish class at the university, singing lessons and parties and it’s back to being along a lot.

So now I will clean out the basement, paint some interior rooms and woodwork. Not fun but it will cheer me up. Time to lay in some good books and stay active on the stationary bike and weights. I advise others to think about isolating if they are elderly.

LittleGirl

(8,287 posts)
24. I'm doing exactly the same.
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 05:45 PM
Mar 2020

Painting the hallway and getting the garden ready for the early spring we’re going to have.
Take care.

cannabis_flower

(3,764 posts)
30. I wouldn't be surprised
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 07:12 PM
Mar 2020

If they tested cases of people who were hospitalized with "the flu" previous to the China outbreak and they were found to be Coronavirus. I picked up a guy at Memorial Hermann at the Medical Center in Houston whose 29 year old son had contracted flu and had gotten pneumonia and sepsis and had been in the hospital 10 weeks. They should be testing these people if they hadn't already.

itsrobert

(14,157 posts)
31. Dont worry, Trump has a plan
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 07:19 PM
Mar 2020

to stop immigrants coming thru the Mexico/US Border. That should stop any further spreading in the US.

Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
40. The number of cases is about to skyrocket
Sun Mar 1, 2020, 08:59 PM
Mar 2020

And Trump is on the record saying "don't worry" and "it's a hoax".

He now owns this.

MineralMan

(146,322 posts)
43. As more local testing begins, we are going to learn that it is
Mon Mar 2, 2020, 10:37 AM
Mar 2020

pretty much everywhere. The lack of testing has limited the number of cases being reported. Now that the testing protocol is expanding, we'll learn of more cases.

Bottom line on this is that you cannot identify the disease with any level of sureness without testing, because its symptoms are similar to other diseases.

As more and more cases are discovered, including subclinical infections, I believe the mortality rate for the disease will drop.

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