Federal judge temporarily halts congressional Democrats' subpoenas of Trump financial records
Source: Washington Post
A federal judge temporarily blocked subpoenas from congressional Democrats for President Trumps financial records after an appeals court weighed in on the issue.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit sent the case back to the U.S. District Court judge handling the lawsuit proceedings for another look at how the untested separation-of-powers issues at stake affect whether the case should move ahead and, if so, at what pace.
The lower-court judge, Emmet G. Sullivan, promptly issued an order putting the subpoenas on hold. He previously had said the congressional requests could proceed.
In late June, Sullivan allowed the case to move forward and said lawmakers could begin pursuing financial information, interviews and other records from Trumps businesses.
Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/federal-judge-temporarily-halts-congressional-democrats-subpoenas-of-trump-financial-records/2019/07/19/baf383cc-991d-11e9-916d-9c61607d8190_story.html?utm_term=.63a25dc486e0
bluestarone
(16,976 posts)Fucking aggravating!
Sometimes it feels like ice-skating uphill.
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)Most people dont realize that these kinds of things can take years to resolve.
Thats why party leadership keeps trying to make deals for testimony... because they know that even if they were to have a good case when taking it to the courts... it could take years to win (by which time the election is over).
And they might not win. Those who say the president isnt above the law are of course correct... but too often forget that Congress isnt all-powerful either.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,624 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)I favor starting the formal impeachment process, but I'm not sure it's going to actually mean things take a dramatically different turn on a much faster pace.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,624 posts)And forces the release of the redacted Grand Jury evidence and testimony. It also expedites the legal process for the obstruction measures, rather than dragging out over numerous appeals.
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)It certainly doesn't "force" the release of grand jury materials. Nor does it change the normal judicial process (reviews etc.) unless the Supreme Court chooses to allow it.
As for the earlier comment, this was intended to support... there's no chance that this would get them what they wanted within a week.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,624 posts)https://time.com/5567027/barr-mueller-report-redactions-grand-jury/
https://www.lawfareblog.com/mueller-report-redactions-will-congress-ever-see-all-mueller-grand-jury-material
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/secrecy/LSB10201.pdf
Nadler is on record stating an inquiry would give him more power to eliminate obstruction and obtain evidence and testimony.
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)So? It almost certainly would give him more power... but that's a looong way from "they could get what they want by next week".
An alternate theory from one of the same sources:
We think it is entirely possibleprobable eventhat judges would recognize the primacy of impeachment proceedings against the president of the United States and expedite consideration of such cases. The case of U.S. v. Nixonin which the Supreme Court ruled that the president had to turn over the infamous Oval Office recordings to the special prosecutorwas decided just over three months after the relevant grand jury subpoena had been issued. That was a criminal investigation, so the analogy is not entirely apt, but we think it reasonable to assume courts would take a similarly expeditious view in the context of a subpoena issued pursuant to impeachment proceedings. Of course, it is worth remembering that the Supreme Court has never decided a case concerning a congressional subpoena for information issued to an executive branch official where the president has asserted executive privilege. In theory, the Supreme Court could decide the issue is a political question and leave it to the other two branches to sort out in some other way.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-powers-does-formal-impeachment-inquiry-give-house
Note that "deciding that it's a political question" (as they did in the recent redistricting ruling) is essentially a total win for Trump. Congress doesn't get what they want (worse, the precedent is set that they can't). All Congress can do is add it to the list of impeachment charges.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,624 posts)To throw out the prime minister.
And we have 5 parties that hold seats in parliament.
Ain't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than the "you and what army?" Oversight process in the US.
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)him/Dems more power last week on with Maddow, iirc.
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)More importantly... while "more" is almost certainly true... the powers claimed by the earlier post (that they could have the documents in a week if they wanted to) are not even close to reality.
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)Impeachment is specifically called out in the Constitution, four different times. That's why it carries more clout.
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)Just like an attorney representing a position in court... he has to pitch his side whether he thinks he's likely to win or not.
The judge who was just overruled (and any justices in the minority of the DC circuit court ruling) are also greater experts than either one of us... but they were wrong. Or, to be more charitable, their side lost.
That's why "appeal to authority" is a fallacy.
Impeachment is specifically called out in the Constitution, four different times. That's why it carries more clout.
It's actually mentioned six times (though I'm unaware of a "# of times mentioned" standard in constitutional analysis)... and certainly it has "more clout"... but that wasn't what was claimed.
scarytomcat
(1,706 posts)most don't know exactly but with most courts being turned rightward you will probably end up correct.
LiberalFighter
(50,950 posts)Just because someone is told to turn over documents doesn't mean they will. Or can be forced just like that. It requires the right parties to enforce it. You think the Justice Department will do it when they consider their boss to be the President?
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)Of what do you speak?
Fiendish Thingy
(15,624 posts)AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)Kid Berwyn
(14,909 posts)Lightning fast.
WhoWoodaKnew
(847 posts)... this subject like this.
I think they're kind of confused.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,624 posts)Surely Congress must have another option to get this evidence...what could it be?
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)lsewpershad
(2,620 posts)the republicons would have found a way to get what they want
. The dems seem so helpless. Very frustrating.
Hestia
(3,818 posts)Is this not aiding and abetting, making it look like they are doing something, stating we have to wait for the courts to rule, knowing good and damn well, how they will rule. Everyone is navel gazing while Drumpf takes down the federal agencies, literally, brick by brick. Another agency is moving in the next week or so to Colorado because the Sec of Interior lives there and needs to make a couple of billion dollars due to the fact that he supposedly is not getting oil lobbying dollars.
This is two sides of the same coin and proves with out a doubt that we aren't given one thought at all - nothing. No sides care, only keeping their scrapes of power so we do not get even a smidge to live a somewhat healthy life.
This is just another episode of bread and circus'.
KPN
(15,646 posts)to pound whatever slick message they'd come up with to pressure Ds into compromise, i.e., capitulation. Part of their effort would be clear threats to blue dog Ds and the safety of their seats in the next election no doubt.
FakeNoose
(32,645 posts)I don't know if that's the case here, but it doesn't necessarily mean Judge Sullivan is trying to make things easier for Bill Barr. He might be treading lightly on this because so much is at stake. Maybe?
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)He didnt have a choice in this case
onetexan
(13,043 posts)Seems they haven't yet asked for them. My question is why the heck not??
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-new-york-state-tax-returns_n_5d237706e4b01b83473aca3b
Congressional Democrats could get some of President Donald Trumps personal tax information thanks to a new law signed Monday by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D) ― but they dont seem terribly interested.
House Democrats have sued the Trump administration over its refusal to hand over copies of the presidents federal returns. But they have expressed little enthusiasm for getting his New York returns, even though they could obtain some of the same information theyre looking for.
New Yorks new law directs the state tax commissioner to provide congressional committees any private tax information they request, so long as they have already asked for federal returns like Neal did for Trumps taxes in April.
...
The presidents state returns would include some of the same information as on his federal returns, said Lawrence Zelenak, a tax professor at the Duke University School of Law. New Yorks state income tax form, for instance, requires a number of entries from federal tax forms. And Zelenak said state law requires taxpayers to file an amended state return if the IRS has made changes to their federal return as a result of an audit.
If they got the state returns, theyd get a great deal of information from the federal returns, Zelenak said.
KPN
(15,646 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,950 posts)SunSeeker
(51,572 posts)And it's the only way we can get Mueller's grand jury info, in light of the ruling in McKeever v. Barr.
LuvNewcastle
(16,846 posts)We won't get anywhere like this.
Nevermypresident
(781 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,182 posts)that HRC's emails, all the DNC stuff, all the Wikileaks hacked information, all that was released
but no one hacked to grab Trump's emails
They have good hackers, we don't.
We play by rule of law, they don't.
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)Hackers aren't doing this out of some sense of patriotism.
Also how do you embarrass people who have no sense of shame?
kentuck
(111,103 posts)Something smells...
ripcord
(5,409 posts)This is a separation of powers issue, it is going to be decided by the Supreme Court.
W T F
(1,147 posts)tymorial
(3,433 posts)This is administration is a criminal enterprise. It has been since day one.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)former9thward
(32,025 posts)There are four judges who have made rulings in this case. At the District court level Judge Sullivan was appointed by Clinton. At the DC Court of Appeals level Judges Pillard, Millett and Wilkins were all appointed by Obama.
machI
(1,285 posts)Trump has used his time in office to make political appointments in the Government which are now protecting him. We lost our first best chance right after he was sworn in. It is now up to Congress to impeach him and correct this error in our history.
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)How would we have managed it?