LBJ's daughters to christen warship bearing his name

[left-of-center2012]

Source: AP News

Former President Lyndon B. Johnson’s daughters are set to christen a stealth warship that bears the 36th president’s name at a ceremony in Maine.

Lynda Bird Johnson Robb and Luci Baines Johnson are co-sponsors of the future USS Lyndon B. Johnson, which is under construction at Bath Iron Works.

The 610-foot warship is the last in a class of three ships that are the largest and most technologically sophisticated destroyers built for the U.S. Navy. The ships feature a new wave-piercing “tumblehome” hull, a stealthy shape, electric propulsion and advanced automation.

Robb said before Saturday’s ceremony that her father would be honored to have his name on a Navy ship, especially one that “looks forward, not backward.” It will undergo further outfitting and sea trials before it’s commissioned into service.

Read more: https://www.apnews.com/1a112de8f5c84bcb9c82771f921b8f03

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[Ninga]

1. Just finished reading Doris Kerns Goodwin "Leadership in Turbulent Times" and Johnson was

One of 4 President's profiled.

An amazing man, an amazing President.

[llmart]

7. Were you even alive during the Viet Nam war?

Many of us who protested were Democrats.

[Ninga]

10. Yep I was. And I took to the streets many times

to protest.

Kerns Goodwin writes about the totality of Johnson’s life. I believe he understood he was so
wrong about Vietnam that it killed him.

He was a complicated man that did so much long lasting good for our country and did so much
harm with Vietnam.

[JohnnyLib2]

12. I was one who protested--a lot.

But even then many of us understood how very much he did for civil rights when probably no one else could have. " Complicated man"
is almost inadequate to explain his role in history.

[mitch96]

28. "Were you alive during the Viet Nam war?"

LBJ tried to get me killed.. He got some of my friends killed. Just b/c he did not want to be the prez to "lose a war"... Fucker. Thanks but no thanks....
m

[Submariner]

2. They should have named it the USS Turner Joy Maddox Johnson

in commemoration of the ships he lied about being attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin so he could kick off his f*cking war. This asshole should be dug up and buried in a Houston landfill.

Those targets aren't working so well in sea trials so it will probably be scrapped and turned into razor blades in a few years.

[erlewyne]

4. Thank you Submariner.

I was drafted in '67 and have no kind thoughts for LBJ.
Two miserable years learning to hate.

I wish more attention would be paid to the Tonkin B.S.

[JudyM]

32. A legislative priority should be a bill that makes *lying as a pretense for war* a capital crime.

We’ve seen too much of that.

[Blues Heron]

3. Warpigs gotta have their toys

how many will this thing kill? How much $$ diverted into this POS instead of the US citizenry?

[jpak]

6. Not many - the shells for the advanced guns are too expensive to even train with

and they are carrying zero of them

[jmowreader]

5. I'd be slightly miffed about having one of those named for me

Without the million-dollar howitzer round this ship fires the ship is useless, and the Navy won’t buy the round because it costs a million dollars per lanyard pull.

[radical noodle]

8. WARship says it all

He sure liked his war, didn't he?

[MicaelS]

9. Wow, so much hate in thread.

Not one mention of the landmark work that LBJ did in Civil Rights. I doubt any other President could have done what he did. I don't care if he was riding the coattails of JFK's assassination to get it done. LBJ did it. No one else.

JFK's approach to Civil Rights was weak, as this article from PBS points out.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/jfk-domestic-politics/

Did LBJ screw up with 'Nam? Sure he did, but Nixon was no better. And you can't put all the blame on them when McGovern got crushed as he did. By their actions, the majority of voting Americans were in favor of the Vietnam War.

Just take a look at Wikipedia article on the 1972 election. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_United_States_presidential_election

[Ninga]

11. Thank you. You may find her book very

interesting. For example, he was a teacher that took black students to a state debate contest.
He was the first debate teacher ever, for that school.

[MicaelS]

16. Thanks for the heads up.n/t

[left-of-center2012]

13. For the LBJ haters ...

He appointed the first African American judge, Thurgood Marshall, in the Supreme Court.

Johnson set up the National Endowment for the Humanities and the National Endowment for the Arts.

He initiated food stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, Work Study and Head Start.

The Great Society legislation was perhaps the most significant. It was his signature legislation that upheld civil rights, brought in laws governing public broadcasting, environmental protection.

The Elementary and Secondary Education Act and Higher Education Act. The law allowed the improvement of schools with special funding. He particularly focused on the schools in the poorer districts across the country.

[MicaelS]

14. Real crickets around here..

When LBJ achievements are pointed out.

[Buckeyeblue]

15. The cold war made Vietnam complicated

I'm not defending the war. Or the lies told. But we as a country had become so anti-Soviet Union that we couldn't back away from bad situations like Vietnam.

Without Vietnam, Johnson would have probably won a second term and Nixon would be another forgotten VP.

Oh how history seems so simple in hindsight.

[radical noodle]

21. There are a lot of us here

who were of draft age during LBJ's time in office. I graduated from high school in 1965 and those going to Vietnam were my age, some were my friends.

Yes, he did some good things, but Vietnam eclipses those good things most of the time. Many of us here had friends who died in Vietnam. LBJ was hated for it and it's difficult to get past it. He was even featured prominently in some anti-war songs.

I give him credit for what he did for civil rights, but I don't think he will ever get a pass for Vietnam and you shouldn't expect it.

[appalachiablue]

24. Rec, CPB, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, NPR & PBS est. in 1967

"ALL THE WAY" movie, excellent dramatization of the LBJ Civil Rights years with Bryan Cranston, (2016).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_Way_(film)

[mitch96]

29. "For the LBJ haters"

It's a shame that all the good he did he wiped it out by killing so many young American boys to feed his ego... A true politician...
m

[GulfCoast66]

17. I get the Ambivalence about LBJ on DU.

We skew way older than the average population. At 53 I would guess I am below average of our members.

So I don’t remember the Vietnam war. I remember the troops coming home but not the more turbulent days. And I can see the hatred for LBJ if you were young in those days.

So I only see LBJ in retrospect. And to me he was as great if not greater than FDR. Of course I think FDR was one of the best ever. Perhaps the best. But he helped white Americans which were the vast majority in those days. He perhaps wanted to extend that help to Black Americans but the Southern Democrats would not let that happen.

But LBJ extended and expanded the help to all Americans including people of color. It was not politically wise and it destroyed the historical Democratic Party as it had existed since the end of reconstruction. And we are still struggling with that as he predicted. But he did it anyway. Country above party.

As our nation continues to become more diverse I think his star will continue to rise.

I firmly believe that if we had not got Medicare in the 60s Reagan would have been able to destroy Social Security. And both are untouchable now and if we are smart will ride the expansion of these popular programs to victory in the future.

The dumbass tea party will continue to attack them cause they see it as religious necessity.

[yaesu]

18. I'm surprised tRump didn't sign an executive order naming it after himself. nt

[Sapient Donkey]

20. There better never be any ship named after him. Well, maybe a trash barge.

[yaesu]

22. Poland just oked a US military base that will be called Fort trump, that's scary enough. nt

[Sapient Donkey]

19. Did they manage find some guns for these yet?

Last I heard these $4.5 billion dollar ships don't have functioning guns, don't have any anti-submarine capabilities, don't have any fleet defense anti-air, and don't have any anti-ship capabilities. I mean, I know they say they plan on adding SM-6 capabilities for an additional $100 million dollars. Which I'm sure will end up inflating to be $500 for the upgrades. Am I wrong this? If I am understanding the situation, then this thing is essentially a stealthy tomahawk missile truck that is less stealthy and capable than a Ohio SSBN converted to a SSGN.

When republicans complain about the Navy and other branches not being up to snuff with force readiness, I think we need to point to stuff like this. Assuming my understanding of the situation is correct. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

*I am not against building new ships or having a modern navy/military. I'm just against stupid spending.

[Honeycombe8]

23. Good, but I wonder why they're naming a ship after LBJ, since he was President a long time ago.

LBJ wasn't particularly popular, either. No reason not to, but just wondering, since it seems an odd choice. Unless they're taking turns naming ships after Presidents, and LBJ doesn't have one yet?

[MicaelS]

25. LBJ, Nixon and Clinton were the Presidents...

In the latter half of the 20th Century to NOT have a warship named after them.

Most Presidents get an aircraft carrier named after them.

https://www.uso.org/stories/1956-can-you-name-the-10-presidents-who-had-aircraft-carriers-named-in-their-honor

Carter got a Seawolf nuclear submarine named after him, since he was in the Navy in Nuclear Submarines.

I doubt Nixon will ever get a ship named after him.

[Honeycombe8]

27. I see. Thanks. nt

[Shemp Howard]

26. His civil rights work does not cancel out Vietnam!

No doubt about it. LBJ did much to advance the cause of civil rights in the United States. That should not be minimized.

But that work does not cancel out the bloody horror that was HIS Vietnam War.

Here is an analogy. Awhile back I read an article that debated who the greatest Englishman/woman ever was. The author argued that it was not Isaac Newton. Newton made many great discoveries. But if Newton had not lived, the author said, someone else would have made those discoveries.

I think the same applies here. Had LBJ not acted to advance civil rights, someone else would have done it. Paraphrasing Bob Dylan, the times they were a changin'.

LBJ's contributions to civil rights were important, but not absolutely critical. But his decisions regarding Vietnam were absolutely critical. Over one million people died. And for what? For nothing.

[MicaelS]

30. It does in my book, and I am 62.

I grew up with Vietnam, I just missed the draft because it was cancelled. I did not even have to register for SS.

As far as your point about '"someone else would have done it", the same exact thing applies to Nam. We saw that with Nixon. As far as JFK, that debate will never be settled. And as I have said before, of the American people wanted out the war in '72, they could choose McGovern. They did not, and the overwhelming victory of Nixon just points that out.

Once the Nam generation passes, I am sure there will be a much more nuanced and balanced view of LBJ.

The harsh fact of the US is that we have been in a perpetual state of war since the late 1930s. Regardless of which party is in power.

[Shemp Howard]

31. I must respectfully disagree.

It is almost certain that had LBJ not improved civil rights, someone else would have done it. A President Hubert Humphrey, maybe. It was inevitable.

But had LBJ followed the advice of Douglas MacArthur - Never fight a land war in Asia - there probably never would have been a Vietnam War. And maybe never a President Nixon.

Think about it. Would the electorate have turned away from LBJ in 1968 just because he DIDN'T involve the U.S. in a civil war? No. LBJ would have been re-elected. And whoever came next, it wouldn't matter. The Vietnamese civil war would have been over by then.

So if a really good policy is a +1:

LBJ on civil rights is a +10.
LBJ on getting hundreds of thousands of people killed, that's a -500