Chief of staff says Dems will 'never' see Trump tax returns

[turbinetree]

Source: Associated Press

By ZEKE MILLER 19 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Democrats will “never” see President Donald Trump’s tax returns, said White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney on Sunday, as a new front opened in the confrontation between the administration and Congress.

Mulvaeny accused Democrats of engaging in a “political stunt” and wanting “attention” after the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, Rep. Richard Neal, asked the IRS to provide six years of Trump’s personal tax returns and the returns for some of his businesses.

“That is not going to happen and they know it,” Mulvaney said in an interview with “Fox News Sunday.”

Last week, Massachusetts Democrat Neal, one of only three congressional officials authorized to request tax returns, requested Trump’s personal and business returns in a letter to IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig. He asked for returns covering 2013 through 2018. He also asked for the documents in seven days, setting an April 10 deadline.

Read more: https://apnews.com/94d053425cdd485f86fb4d65eb464911

---

Maybe Mulvaney, you should go back to civic class and read what the word oversight and ways and means committee's means

here better yet let Congressman Neal explain it again and see if you fully understand what he said.......................

-snip-

"Neal said the IRS has a policy of auditing the tax returns of all sitting presidents and vice presidents, “yet little is known about the effectiveness of this program.”

“On behalf of the American people, the Ways and Means Committee must determine if that policy is being followed, and if so, whether these audits are conducted fully and appropriately,” Neal said when unveiling his request for Trump’s returns.

[Perseus]

1. Time to request Mulvaeny's tax returns

and shut him off

[DirtEdonE]

3. +1 nt

[GemDigger]

32. That was my first thought.

A free floor in one of trumps towers maybe.

[DirtEdonE]

2. Everyone thought mueller had trump's tax returns

But I guess not.

Or if he did, I guess it just didn't matter, like the rest of the evidence apparently didn't matter.

If trump gets away with ignoring this long-settled policy and congressional legal constitutional right to receive ANYONE'S tax return then exactly where do we go from there? Capitulation again?

It's time to draw a line in the sand, to borrow a repubican rallying cry.

[onenote]

21. Everyone?

No.

[DirtEdonE]

55. Broadly reported in the news and on cable tv

Yes.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/421327-ex-us-attorney-mueller-absolutely-has-trumps-tax-returns

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-09-18/robert-mueller-likely-has-donald-trumps-tax-returns

https://www.newsweek.com/robert-mueller-information-donald-trump-unreleased-tax-returns-1090814

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/tax-returns-special-counsel-robert-mueller-investigation/2018/12/13/id/894398/

https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/26/politics/special-counsel-irs-russia-probe-information-sharing/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/12/05/robert-mueller-is-following-the-money-and-that-may-put-trump-in-serious-danger/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.bc79d527eac4

There are many more but I'm sure you get the idea.

[Honeycombe8]

67. Wow. That's a lot! You did your homework. I remember this being discussed....

that Mueller would probably be able to get them. So we don't know. Maybe he couldn't, or maybe he didn't think they'd be helpful for his investigation.

[ZZenith]

71. Or maybe there's a shit-ton of gaslighting going on.

[Honeycombe8]

75. People wre doing what they have been doing for 2 yrs: guessing at what Mueller is doing...

what documents he has or can get. It was discussed that he could, or might, be able to get Trump's tax returns.

As legitimate a discussion as whether Mueller interviewed Cohen, had any of the Cohen tapes, had obtained Manafort bank documents, etc.

So it's been discussed. Some were certain he had the authority to get the tax returns. I don't know. But even if he could, I'm not certain he would have found them useful for his purposes. He was investigating only two things: whether Trump was conspiring w/Russia, or aiding & abetting, to win the election or for Russia's interference in our democracy, and whether Trump has obstructed justice when he fired Comey (and could investigate anything arising from those things).

[DirtEdonE]

89. "He was investigating only two things:"

That's not what Rosenstein's letter appointing Mueller said.

Appointment of Special Counsel to Investigate Russian Interference with the 2016 Presidential Campaign and Related Matters

By virtue of the authority vested in me as Acting Attorney General, including 28 U.S.C. && 509, 510 and 515, in order to discharge the responsibility to provide supervision and management of the Department of Justice, and to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, I hereby order as follows:

(a) Robert S. Mueller III is appointed to serve as Special Counsel for the United States Department of Justice.

(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James B. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. & 600.4(a).

(c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.

(d) Sections 600.4 through 600.10 of Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations are applicable to the Special Counsel.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726408-Rosenstein-letter-appointing-Mueller-special.html

LII Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (e-CFR) Title 28. Judicial Administration Chapter VI. OFFICES OF INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE Part 600. GENERAL POWERS OF SPECIAL COUNSEL Section 600.4. Jurisdiction.

28 CFR § 600.4 - Jurisdiction.

§ 600.4 Jurisdiction.

(a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

(b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.

(c)Civil and administrative jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel determines that administrative remedies, civil sanctions or other governmental action outside the criminal justice system might be appropriate, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General with respect to the appropriate component to take any necessary action. A Special Counsel shall not have civil or administrative authority unless specifically granted such jurisdiction by the Attorney General.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.4

[Honeycombe8]

91. He could REFER other potential crimes he ran across.

He had two main objectives:

1. The Russian interference; and

2. Obstruction of Justice.

[DirtEdonE]

92. Yeah. OK. More selective interpretation for trump

If this was a Democrat is office the selective interpretation would be far different.

But it's OK either way because nothing is going to be done about any of it anyway.

[onetexan]

33. not sure at this point whether i trust mueller either

if he was truly a man of integrity he should have released a statement to counter what Barr said 48 hours after Mueller handed the report to Barr. After all, Mueller himself is a republican. Can we really trust any republican at this point?

[jrthin]

51. I've been having the same thought. Seems to me Mueller didn't

quite live up to his billing.

[DirtEdonE]

56. mueller is a repubican and you can never trust a repubican. nt

[olegramps]

69. Surpirse, surprise! Republicans invesigating a Republican finds them innocent as babies.

[LiberalFighter]

88. Until he is entirely finished I don't believe he has authority to respond.

Until he is subpoenaed to answer questions about it. Or he is no longer in service with the investigation.

[forgotmylogin]

63. Information may be in the actual Mueller Report.

Not like we can know yet.

[DirtEdonE]

66. That's what we said for 22 months

Until mueller released his anti-climax typical repubican sell-out report to barr who was put in place to do exactly what he did with the nothing burger mueller grilled for him.

22 months for a bullshit ending that they could have concocted in a weekend.

Oh, wait, barr did concoct his letter in a weekend.

[regnaD kciN]

81. "anti-climax typical republican sell-out report"...?

Since we still don't know what's in that report, can we stop deciding to echo Trump's claim that it provides "total EXONERATION!"...particularly since even Barr's memo says that it doesn't?

And, yes, Mueller had no option but to give the report to Barr and let him do with it what he would. Blame the neutering of the special prosecutor law after Watergate/Whitewater for that. Everyone assumed that Mueller would just release the entire report to Congress and the media, conveniently overlooking the fact that, by law, he couldn't do that. (And, in case you were wondering, he couldn't just release the information himself afterwards -- it would be a felony to reveal anything concerning grand jury hearings.)

Blame the process skewed, in a bipartisan manner, by politicians who didn't want either another Archibald Cox or Ken Starr. And maybe blame ourselves for ignoring the facts of that process, and assuming they wouldn't apply this time. But don't blame Mueller or decide what's in his report unless/until we see it...which may require a flat-out leak of the entire document or a favorable court decision from a Republican-packed SCOTUS.

[tymorial]

84. More than a few simply cannot help themselves

They see republican and they believe corruption. Reality doesn't matter. They didn't get what they wanted so its a grand conspiracy and Mueller was always in on it.

[DirtEdonE]

90. It's always been a grand conspiracy

The repbuicans laughed and pilloried Hillary back in the 90s for saying it's a vast right-wing conspiracy.

I thought we were all on the same page on this by now. It's always been a vast right-wing conspiracy. Or a grand conspiracy if that's your choice.

No difference.

[gldstwmn]

74. They could have been an exhibit but how would we know?

[truthisfreedom]

4. 3... 2... 1...

[dlk]

5. No Doubt, This is Their Plan - We Shall See

Trump & his enablers are obviously willing to go to the wall to continue hiding the tax returns. There must be some very damaging information in them. Before this is over we will all find out if the rule of law still stands in our country.

[SergeStorms]

77. I think the most revealing...

story (beside Trump's garden variety tax cheating) will be his lying about his assets' evaluation and his net worth. I'm willing to bet Trump's net worth is only a fraction of what he brags about it being. I think much of his reticence to let anyone know his actual worth is because of his children. I don't believe he wants his children to know what a lying piece of crap he really is, and how much he's inflated his net worth in conversations with them. He's always lied about his finances (starting his "empire" with a mere $1 million "loan" from daddy Fred) and the truth coming out would be devastating to his ego. Trump is nothing but ego.

I could be wrong. Contrary to popular opinion I can be wrong about a few things now and then.

[dlk]

80. Oh No, You're Kidding

[cstanleytech]

6. That's why our guys should shift the focus to demanding the letter

from Trump and not the IRS but rather from Trump that Trump received from the IRS stating he was being audited.

[oasis]

25. An "authentic" letter from Trump or the IRS. nt

[onetexan]

34. right. He'll have his bone spur claiming doctor write it

[oasis]

38. During the months long stall what's to stop them from cranking

out loads of doctored "official" documents?

[cstanleytech]

59. It's unlikely that they would try to falsify an IRS official document because

it's a major crime and would be so blatant that the IRS would even be forced to probably step in and say hey we've never sent and that letter.

[oasis]

64. In the Era of Trump I've learned to rethink what I used to

believe was "unlikely".

[cstanleytech]

58. Yup and if he refuses it will be clear that it's because he lied and

our guys can use it.
Not against him too much because anybody who still supports the sack of shit is not going to change their opinion however we could use it against everybody in the Senate and the House who have been enabling his behavior.

[oasis]

62. Trump's "cling-on" supporters in congress will have some creative

explanations for their shit-for-brains constituents who keep sending them back to Washington.

[NNYCDN51]

7. WHAT A SHOCKER ..........

Repubelickems ALL a bunch of fucking LIARS

Keep On Thinking Free

[forgotmylogin]

65. Keeping them locked up and saying "YOU'LL NEVER GET THEM! NEVAH!"

Seems more like a stunt than disclosing them as has been done for decades.

[edhopper]

8. The Law

the IRS SHALL give Congress the tax returns for any citizen it requests. SHALL, all caps, bold, underlined.

[DirtEdonE]

15. U.S. Code Title 26 - Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information

LII U.S. Code Title 26. INTERNAL REVENUE CODE Subtitle F. Procedure and Administration Chapter 61. INFORMATION AND RETURNS Subchapter B. Miscellaneous Provisions Section 6103. Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information

(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation

Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6103

[orleans]

24. +1 n/t

[dameatball]

28. Yes, and we have already determined what "shall" means.

[machoneman]

35. THX! This will end up with the SC and take up lots of time but....

I really don't see how they can avoid the law here.

On a related noted, Jay Sekulow was on This Week today and was literally screaming out his replies on taxes, et al.

One notes the losing side of an argument is when the defenders have to vociferously answer each question in a huffy, loud voice yet skirt any direct answers.

Translation? Sekulow knows he's fighting a long but losing battle. I'll even bet Trump chastised him for not more loudly in the past denouncing all charges against him. This radical change in Jay's behavior betrays the losing position even an experienced WH layer now finds himself in.

All this winning! God, I can't stand it................................LOL!

[Eliot Rosewater]

26. They dont care about the law and we are no longer a democracy.

[C Moon]

46. That's the way I feel. The GOPutin has broken law after law, and no or tiny charges are made.

It's like a car running through the streets with police chasing it, breaking every law on the way, getting caught and the police letting the driver and passengers go—because it was a rich white man driving.

[edhopper]

70. This is true

and his rw courts will support him.

[duforsure]

9. That's just a good rally cry

For all republicans including trump to be voted out of office asap, and they will be. He won't be able to hide his criminal activities by hiding his tax returns, and he will be ruled against it by the courts , which he wants to bypass them now too. If I were a corrupt and as big a crook as trump is I wouldn't want my taxes to ever be looked at too. Protecting a criminal like this will cause many goper's to run from them , and know this can't stand. trump will want to use the IRS then as a weapon to then go after the Clinton's, the Obama's, and anyone who opposes him in any way, or has been involved with investigating him, which is another clear sign of his criminal behavior , and patterns.

[Downtown Hound]

10. Gee. Sure sounds like they have nothing to hide.

[eShirl]

11. Wow, must be some REALLY juicy stuff in them.

[DallasNE]

37. Like

A business write-off for the hush money payments made to several women. Oh, they would be called a legitimate sounding expense and the checks not written out directly to the women.

Note: this is speculation.

[empedocles]

12. Mulvaney was hard right hypocrit in Congress and hasn't changed.

[Scarsdale]

57. Before little Mick got this position

he claimed that "I would NOT want my son to look at tRump as a role model" What changed? Can the son see Mick as a role model now, working for a man he does not like? Hypocrite. As Lindsey Graham said about tRump "He allowed me into his world" What the HELL does that mean, anyway? A world of gold painted furniture, and walls? A world full of lies, deception? A world with a nude "model" escort for a vife?? A world where any moron related to HIM is given security clearance and a high profile job?

[Evolve Dammit]

76. Speaks volumes as to their insecurities and need of a powerful Daddy to comfort and protect.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

13. Speaker Pelosi, please de-fund the Executive Branch.

No more flights to Florida and cut off his cable TV......

I'm guessing tRump and his plutocrat allies will stonewall, delay and keep these issues tied up in court 'till after he's gone.

Seriously, if the courts don't act appropriately, budget strings may be our final recourse......

[Dazbog]

29. If can't cut off cable

At least cut it to the basic stuff, that is, without the Faux.

[Maeve]

14. Never say 'never'

And don't underestimate the power of a determined Congress

Unless you are saying 'never' because they don't exist....

[pnwmom]

16. But meanwhile his accounting firm intends to send Elijah Cummings' committee 10 years of financial

records when they get a subpoena. That accounting firm probably has all the necessary info because Trump hasn't been preparing his tax returns on his laptop.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/03/cummings-subpoena-trump-tax-records-1253480

An accounting firm is asking the House Oversight and Reform Committee to issue it a subpoena before sending lawmakers 10 years of President Donald Trump’s financial records, the panel’s chairman said on Wednesday, adding that the firm intends to turn over the documents.

Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) told reporters that Mazars USA, a tax and accounting firm, has asked the committee for a so-called “friendly” subpoena so that it can formalize the process of complying with the panel’s request.


“They have told us that they will provide the information pretty much when they have a subpoena,” Cummings said. “And we’ll get them a subpoena.”

Cummings formally requested the documents last month in a letter which referenced aspects of former Trump attorney and fixer Michael Cohen’s testimony before the Oversight Committee in February. The chairman asked the firm to turn over the information by Wednesday.

[machoneman]

39. Cummings request and Mazar's reply...

is far more cunning and likely to succeed. The firm has likely reviewed the underlying laws related to Cumming's demand and their own lawyers already said yes, given a subpoena. They do not want to have Mazar's staff testifying at all if possible.

Now, Trump's lawyers can try and block this move by Mazar yet this brings up a whole different set of issues, issues that I believe can and will be disposed, positively for us, far more quickly than the House's direct demand of the IRS and Trump himself.

How so, do you ask?

Many other cases like this exist where the accounting/tax firms employed by con artists like Trump have been forced to turn over records or suffer having Federal Marshalls come in and trash the place, grab computers and even detain senior staffers.

We'll see if Mazars can successfully transfer the records and soon.

[COLGATE4]

17. Mulvaney is a loud mouthed, ass kissing fool.

[Stuart G]

18. I believe that this sentence came directly from Donald Trump, Mulvaney's boss.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Democrats will “never” see President Donald Trump’s tax returns, said White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney on Sunday, as a new front opened in the confrontation between the administration and Congress.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Trump knew Mulvaney was going to be on TV Sunday,(Fox News) and ordered Mulvaney to say that. That is what I believe. post by turbinetree today in Latest Breaking News..............................
..............(3rd paragraph of original post,)
.........title of post: "Chief of staff says Dems will 'never' see Trump tax returns"
at link below:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2299531

[BlueIdaho]

19. Would you like some salt and pepper

Before you eat those words?

[lastlib]

42. Better pass him the barbecue sauce, too.

He gonna need somethin' REEEALLY sweet to make them words go down easier!

[Ferrets are Cool]

20. I am sick to death of repugs breaking the law and nothing being done to stop them.

Yes, there have been a few crumbs here and there, but the big fish and the most egregious crimes are continuing to get off scott free.

[PatSeg]

22. So

Is Mulvaney saying that because he believes it or is he just talking to his boss through the TV camera? Trying to placate Trump?

[William Seger]

45. He's saying that because he intends to run out the clock in court

[erronis]

50. When have any of these people ever said the truth? It's all posturing and grandiosity

or actually mediocrity, whatever appeals to the lowest-common-denominator (trump or the trumputinistas.)

Just vaguely remembering the Watergate and/or Cheney/w's presidency when a lot of authoritative statements were made that ended up being just plain old lies.

[PatSeg]

72. That is true

though, I don't think we've ever seen lying in any other administration that comes close to this one. It is reached the point where we all just assume anything they say is a lie.

[Iggo]

23. Mick Mulvaney also says...

"The president is not a white supremacist. I'm not sure how many times we have to say that."

"I disagree that there's a causal link between Donald Trump being president and something like this happening in New Zealand."

"They want you to think there's a blue wave when there's not."

"I do not think the government is going to shut down."

So, yeah...

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. Let's be clear, this statement is meant for the followers, so they will shoot us if we demand

his tax returns.

The nazi will set up several lines dems cant cross and if they do the followers start shooting. Putin is orchestrating it all.

[notdarkyet]

85. They should let the kids out from the border cages and put the nazis in.

[dameatball]

30. I wonder what Mulvaney will doing a year from now. His shelf life is getting old.

[hughee99]

31. If Neal's goal is to see if the process of auditing a sitting president is working properly, why is

he asking for tax records back to 2013? Also, is he requesting President Obama's tax returns and audit information from back when he was sitting president? I know we all want to see his tax records, but I don't think anyone is buying this "IRS oversight" justification.

[Marcuse]

86. Obama has released his returns.

[hughee99]

87. But he hasn't seen the audit records from the IRS.

I’m not saying I think Obama did anything wrong, but we all know he’s not asking for 2013 returns because he thinks the Obama IRS overlooked criminal activity.

[Vinca]

36. They couldn't make it any more obvious that Trump is hiding something.

Didn't pay taxes? Not so rich? Up to his pelican chin in Russian money?

[machoneman]

40. Mulvaney betrays his link to the radical Jim Jordans of the world. He's a fool...

Last edited Mon Apr 8, 2019, 11:39 AM - Edit history (1)

to have said what he did.

Not being polished at all (good for us btw), a smart person would have said they can try, they might not be successful, good luck to them, etc.

Ah, but a true moron would say never. This will end up biting him in his big fat ass as the Mazar/Cummings subpoena (underway) the Mueller report indices (likely) and other future efforts by House committees will erode away the mystery.

[rgbecker]

41. Can you say "Contempt of Congress"?

Start at the IRS and work your way up. When it gets personal things start jumping.

[Beacool]

43. Mulvaney is a Tea Party POS.

In the last forty plus years there have been dozens of presidential candidates. Every one of them showed their income tax returns, including every sitting president. If Trump were a Democrat, the Right would be screaming like banshees demanding to see that person's returns. Think, what is Trump so intent in hiding? #1 His net worth is far lower than he claims (ask Deutsche Bank how he lied to them to obtain a loan, inflating his worth by $2B). #2 Deals with foreign nationals and governments (Moscow Trump Tower is just one of them). The man is what Bloomberg publicly called him, a con man.

[DirtEdonE]

52. +1! nt

[bronxiteforever]

44. Hiding things and cover ups

The only thing the Trumpista administration prioritizes

[Sunlei]

47. more dirt from dozens of undocumented Trump employees Congress questions.

Trumps long-term family driver & campaign driver (undocumented) has been held in ICE prison for almost a year now. He must really have interesting dirt to share with Congress.

[vlyons]

48. wanna bet?

Hey Mulvany, wanna put your money where your mouth is?

[Mc Mike]

49. Funny, that's not what they were saying when he was RUNNING for President.

Lying pigs.

[Doodley]

53. Why are Trump's tax returns any business of the White House chief of staff? Is he there to do his

job or to protect Trump?

[jalan48]

54. If it goes to the SCOTUS and the law is ruled unconstitutional we won't see them.

[walkingman]

61. It's hard to beat the WPP (White People's Party). People have been trying to do it for centuries.

[cstanleytech]

60. Let's hope this causes Mulvaney to be arrested and jailed until

he complies.

[keithbvadu2]

68. He's not 'acting' COS anymore?

[JohnnyRingo]

73. And why should Dems be allowed to see Trump's tax returns?

They just want to dig through on a fishing expedition looking for something to hang him on. Everybody knows that any candidate running would have the same fraud in their tax returns if they were to be released.

Wait a minute....

[doc03]

78. Just heard Mitt Romney say the same thing on MTP nt

[DeminPennswoods]

79. A moronic strategy because now people will

want to know what Trump is hiding.

[SunSeeker]

82. What a fucking corrupt scumbag he is.

May he spend the last moments of his miserable life in jail.

[The Wizard]

83. Does he realize that

this position means anyone can say anything because they refuse to disclose any and all defenses as in tax returns. Preface every comment with "What is the President hiding?"