Federal judge: Government employees can't refuse to work unpaid during partial shutdown

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Source: MSN

A federal judge on Tuesday ruled that government employees who have been deemed essential can't refuse to work without pay during the partial shutdown.

U.S. District Judge Richard Leon denied a temporary restraining order that would have either forced the government pay workers or allow them the option to refuse to work while not receiving pay. Leon ruled that such an order would incite “chaos” and was against the public interest since it’s unclear how many workers would choose to still go to work without pay. He also said it could put the safety of the public in jeopardy.

The ruling comes after the judge consolidated three cases making similar claims on the grounds that the government was violating the Constitution in forcing employees to work without pay. The three lawsuits come from the National Treasury Employees Union, National Air Traffic Controllers Association, and a group of five federal workers.

The plaintiffs in the case argued that being forced to work without pay is against the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery. They also asked that the judge prevent them from being retaliated against for not showing up to work and asked them to allow workers the ability to find other means of income while they are not being paid.


Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/federal-judge-government-employees-cant-refuse-to-work-unpaid-during-partial-shutdown/ar-BBSi9kr?li=BBnb7Kz

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Guess the Republicans want to bring slavery back

[Loki Liesmith]

1. This ruling was a foregone conclusion

[TheBlackAdder]

36. If they are deemed essential, then they can't be furloughed, so they should remain on payroll.

[ancianita]

2. That a federal judge forces govt employees to work unpaid legalizes serfdom. It should be appealed.

Their interests and their families' interests are at least as important as those of end consumers they serve.

[PoliticAverse]

7. They're going to be paid, the question is when. n/t

[ancianita]

8. Anything can/cannot happen. Mitch McConnell's desperate. The drum will beat for Dems to cave.

Wanting governement workers to get paid is one thing.

For them to get paid because Dems caved will be hollered by 45 all over Twitter as the Dems' second Big Loss for the Loser Dems.

Remember when Schumer thought he and the prez reached an agreement last January? then, suddenly, when the shut-down happened, Trump, in public, blamed it on Schumer. It was a double cross by this lying, two-faced grifter.

Schumer will not let that happen again.

[LakeArenal]

24. My Repugnat Glen Grothman says he's against make-up pay

So I’m not so sure they will ever be paid.

I thought Repukes wanted to return to the 1950’s but we are headed to the 1750’s.

[PoliticAverse]

27. There's a difference beween people that have worked during the shutdown and people that didn't.

People that have worked will be paid, people that were furloughed during the shutdown have been paid past shutdowns and probably will again but it isn't guaranteed.

[NutmegYankee]

38. There is a bill at Trump now (S.24) for backpay for all feds.

It passed the Senate by voice vote and passed the house 411-7. At those levels, a veto would be overridden, though Trump claims he’ll sign it.

A key feature is it applies to future shutdowns.

[BumRushDaShow]

39. The House passed a different bill than the Senate one

The House bill not only provides back pay but also includes a requirement that back pay ALWAYS be assumed to be available whenever there is a lapse of appropriations so that congress would not have to keep creating and passing back pay bills each time.

So either the House ditches their bill and passes the Senate bill or the Senate passes the House version and ditches their own (and in either case, the President signs) before any of that goes into effect.

[NutmegYankee]

40. It was the same bill.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/24

[BumRushDaShow]

41. Okay but this was also announced

The House on Wednesday again endorsed a 1.9 percent average federal employee raise for 2019 and for back pay for employees who have been furloughed during the ongoing partial government shutdown, as part of a new tactic aimed at ending the shutdown.

The vote on the general government bill as a stand-alone measure follows passage last week of a larger appropriations measure—including that bill and five others—with the same provisions. The House has scheduled votes on several of the other unfinished appropriations bills over the next several days.

https://www.fedweek.com/fedweek/house-trying-new-tactic-to-end-partial-shutdown/

I.e., H.R. 264 - https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/264/text

and apparently was what Pelosi's enrollment presser was referencing. So there is a 2nd one out there.

[atreides1]

51. That's not guaranteed!!!

Seven members of the House, all Republicans voted against back pay, this president has a history of going back on his word, and is easily influenced by outsiders...like Coulter and Hannity!

In other words, federal workers don't know if they're going to be paid, and neither do the rest of us!!!

[PoliticAverse]

58. Trump signed the law guaranteeing back pay today...

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/425725-trump-signs-law-guaranteeing-back-pay-for-federal-workers

[KY_EnviroGuy]

3. Is Judge Leon buying them gasoline and lunch?

What the hell? Is that bullshit in their employment contract?

If not already, many won't be able to afford to even show up. I hope this can be appealed.

This is exactly what Republicans want. Good federal employees will be forced to resign out of desperation. Then, after this shutdown, these positions either will not be filled or they will be replaced with a known Republican lackey.

.......

[ancianita]

6. The real goal is to drive out government employees. To shrink government services for us all.

This is the happy outcome for the libertarian/neoliberal slow roll coup going on -- to create corporate governance based on market values.

Watch and see if these services are privatized. I'll bet corporations they will be; companies will want to swoop in and take over the services of the 800,000 on furlough -- still on our dime.

It's how globalists rearrange countries into corporate campuses.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

12. Exactly, and that's why they did anything possible to win control....

of all three branches in 2016, including coercion with foreign entities. They've been waiting patiently for a long time.

They will again wait patiently for the next red/blue cycle, then take out another chunk of public services if we don't gain full control and restore what's been damaged (if possible). I'm not certain that some agencies such as the EPA will ever be the same.

What's disheartening to me is the amount of money that's behind this cyclic effort to destroy the US government - - money that in essence came out of our pockets for goods and services.

Good line: "rearrange countries into corporate campuses". Well said........

[ancianita]

14. Koch networks have been eating this elephant (govt), one bite at a time, for a long damn time.

[SunSeeker]

4. This cannot stand. The "chaos" was caused by Trump, not these workers.

This ruling is callous and horrific.

[Major Nikon]

19. It's also untenable because it's contrary to the law

The government can’t by law spend money that hasn’t been allocated by congress. The mere act of allowing employees to work creates an unfunded liability which is illegal.

The government is already in chaos because it’s operating outside the bounds of the Constitution. A real and legal shutdown would only last a few hours. As it is the judge has insured the chaos will continue because he’s too cowardly to do what he swore to do.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antideficiency_Act

[SunSeeker]

23. I agree. nt

[GeorgeGist]

5. Obscene and unconstitutional.

[C_U_L8R]

9. So unfair and abhorrent.

Republicans are total fuckheads.... they are screwing working people for political gain. Disgusting.

[mastermind]

10. So grocery stores can't refuse an IOU when there workers go shopping? nt

[Igel]

11. No, it's not slavery.

The workers are within their rights to refuse to work.

What they can't do is refuse to work and have any expectation of keeping their job. It's like any other job. Take mine, for instance. I refuse to go to work for a week and I'm very likely not going to be going to that job again the following week.

Slaves didn't have that option. Those in any kind of servitude couldn't just walk away, with the punishment being that they wouldn't be allowed to just return and resume their duties. Hyperbole may be a Trumpian rhetorical ploy, but he doesn't have a monopoly on it.

The law apparently is old, from just post-WWII, and is there to prevent striking. There were lots of strikes just after the war. If they don't to go work to protest not getting paid, that's not going to work in protest of a grievance. What's a strike? Not going to work in protest of a grievance.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/01/shutdown-federal-workers-cant-strike/579793/ seems not unreasonable.

It could be worse. When the steel mill my parents worked for had forced shutdowns--often for lack of orders, and for anywhere from 1 to 2 weeks at a time, they'd take advantage of the time to do required yearly preventive maintenance. The union was getting close to being on the ropes. The "deal" that was "negotiated" for these shutdowns was straightforward. When the mill shut down for however long it was shut down, whatever time of year it shut down, that constituted part of the employees' annual vacation. You get 4 weeks' vacation and the mill's shut down for two weeks in February, you have 2 weeks left. If you took all 4 early in the year and the mill shut down in November for two weeks, you get 2 weeks' vacation the following year.

[exboyfil]

13. But an employer that allows you to work ("forces" you) without compensation

is breaking the law in private industry. Retaliation (firing) against such workers who refuse to work is also against the law.

You would hope that the reaction to this crap will lead to a change in the laws. Another possibility is that federal work will become so unattractive as to handicap future recruiting. Of course that is the GOP's end game.

[ancianita]

15. Exactly. This is slow firing by lockout.

Last edited Wed Jan 16, 2019, 01:05 AM - Edit history (1)

Thanks for your positive response.

[onenote]

42. I get paid once a month. I know contractors who don't get paid for some work they do

for even longer.

What law is being broken?

[EarthFirst]

16. "Would incite chaos..."

What the fuck do you call it now?!

[LuvNewcastle]

44. That's exactly what I thought.

It wouldn't be any more a disgrace than what we have now. Somebody needs to stop that judge from getting paid. I think he would see the error of his ways.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

17. EVERY air traffic controller should tell them to Stuff It.

Imagine if every air traffic controller in the country refused to show up to work. THAT would bring this country to its knees. In a New York minute. THEN Spanky and Bitch McConnell would be forced to stop this madness.

[Major Nikon]

20. They tried that once

[Haggis for Breakfast]

25. When ?

If you're referring to the PATCO dismissal during Reagan, you've got your facts reversed. ATCs didn't walk off. Reagan fired them all when they wanted to form a union. He said it was about wages. It was NOT. It was about upgrading decades old equipment, mandates to deal with the ever-expanding air traffic, especially from the corporate word, and assuring that controllers worked reasonable hours. I know this because my family was caught up in it.

But walking off the job en masse has not happened. Not here.

[burrowowl]

29. Had 2 family members screwed by Raygun

My sister a controller and secretary of their PATCO chapter was fired and my father who was pissed was forced out of retirement to teach classes in OK to new hires. And a lot of the complaints were about safety.

[Major Nikon]

30. August 3, 1981

The only "fact" I listed was they already tried what you mentioned in 1981.

ATCs didn't walk off.

Controllers walked off the job on the date in the subject line.

Reagan fired them all when they wanted to form a union.

PATCO had already been a union for more than a decade.

He said it was about wages. It was NOT.

https://nvdatabase.swarthmore.edu/content/american-air-traffic-controllers-strike-benefits-and-pay-1981

Another fun fact is PATCO was one of only two unions that endorsed Saint Ronnie for president.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

43. It didn't work out so well. Reagan fired all the controllers, hired a new crop of people, and

all the new ones reached retirement at about the same time, creating an "Oh holy shit" moment for managers.

[marybourg]

53. You have your facts wrong.

They already had a union and they very much did walk off the job.

[watoos]

18. This is a bs ruling,

The same Libertarians who feel that government workers shouldn't be allowed to join unions.

Is there a time limit on this work without pay? Idiots.

[IronLionZion]

21. 13th amendment

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

And plead the 5th:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Dipshit's wall will never be built because of the 5th amendment. He'll never be able to buy up all that private property without years of lawsuits. This whole thing is just for show to punish workers, force them to quit, then make it harder to recruit qualified people in the future. They are stupid for doing this to law enforcement and security personnel a branch of our armed forces.

Navy should activate the Coast Guard and pay them from the defense budget.

[rdking647]

22. federal workers should start by taking over trumps properties

occupy his hotels,golf ourses and trump tower.
trash the just liek the national parks are being trashed

[zaj]

26. Holy God... Wikipedia is amazing!

[JudyM]

47. Gotta love it.

[unblock]

28. Judge drawing paycheck says working without pay no big deal.

Maybe he'd feel differently if he were forced to decide cases without pay for a while....

[alwaysinasnit]

34. +1000

[still_one]

31. This needs to be appealed to the SC, and for those whose bill collectors will not accept IOUs they

Need to start looking for a side job to make ends meet, or a new job

The credit rating of the U.S. needs to be downgraded

In the meantime The Mueller investigation is going to take too long, and the House needs to start investigation into this administration ASAP

[ProudMNDemocrat]

32. Earth to Federal Judge: Working for FREE does NOT pay the bills.

That amount to Slave Labor. Is that the goal here?

[truthisfreedom]

33. Under 45, slavery is back. Indentured servitude.

[duforsure]

35. Good luck thinking that'll work out

People will not work for nothing, and nothing they do or say will change that for them. How do you get there with no gas, no food to eat, no money if you're sick? This will fail easily if they try.

[LuvNewcastle]

45. If I were them, I would go to work but I would

take my sweet ass time about it, and I would take a lot of breaks. If all of them did that, I think we would see the end of this shit.

[Midnightwalk]

37. Work to rule

The safest route for public employees might be work to rules particularly involving air travel. From Wikipedia

[link:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule|]

Work-to-rule is an industrial action in which employees do no more than the minimum required by the rules of their contract, and precisely follow all safety or other regulations, which may cause a slowdown or decrease in productivity, as they are no longer working during breaks or during unpaid extended hours and weekends (checking email, for instance).

The rest of need to support this. It is not safe from retaliation, but I think is safer than refusing to show up. I don't have great ideas on what the rest of us can do outside of avoiding travel and contacting our representatives and senators. I am fortunate and could take time off work for a more general strike.

The decision is bad in my opinion and should be appealed. This will have financial repercussions to these families long after back pay is resolved assuming it is. It is not an easy decision to leave a job like this. The pay is ok, the benefits are good. Giving up a pension is not easy to do, but at some point you have to feed and house your family.

[Vinca]

46. I imagine they're still allowed to resign though.

If this is any indicator to federal employees of their future under Trump, I bet a whole lot are looking for private sector jobs. Just wait until the planes are grounded . . .

[LittleGirl]

48. Fuck that

I wouldn't work a minute unless I was getting paid. Nope, Lincoln freed the slaves.

[madville]

49. They have to get permission from their federal job for any outside employment as well

They can't even get temporary jobs without permission from their federal bosses. I doubt that would be enforced but there are rules in place about outside employment, mainly intended to prevent corruption but still applies in this scenario as well.

[Cold War Spook]

50. I was in a union at a private company.

When negotiating with the company we never called a strike. What we did was follow the union rules and government rules such as OSHA to the letter. This is worse for the company than a strike. During a strike you do not get paid, while our way slowed production quite a bit, but we still got paid.

[Freethinker65]

52. But some can sloooooow down the work they do.

I would expect morale is already pretty low. Unhappy employees are often far less productive, and working without pay for an asshole and his wasteful political wall can only make the situation worse.

No. This is not the case for emergency personnel. But many of the furloughed are being called back because some political donors are getting inconvenienced. Those workers have little incentive to be overly efficient, effective, and productive at this time.

[Firestorm49]

54. The judge is clearly partisan.

Yes. Safety is a major concern. THEN OPEN UP THE GOVERNMENT, don’t promote slavery in America.

[WVlaserguy]

55. Slow down!

So you are forced by an authoritarian government to come to work without pay. Your only recourse is to slow down your production.

Sabotage is out of the question in today's society...too many cameras. But slow down...check and recheck your work. Long restroom stops. Slow walk.

[CrispyQ]

56. Congress, the president & his administration, & SCOTUS

should all be on the list of federal employees not-getting paid during a shutdown. It makes no sense that they continue to collect pay.