Parkland shooter Nikolas Cruz during confession: 'Kill me'
Source: Sun-Sentinel
Just a few minutes after a Broward Sheriffs Office detective started interviewing the Parkland shooter about how he massacred 17 people, he offered the young man some cold water.
I dont deserve it, Nikolas Cruz told him.
The detective walked outside to get him some water anyway.
Kill me. Just f---ing kill me. F---, Cruz said, while he was alone in the interview room but still being recorded.
-snip-
Most of the Parkland school shooters hours-long confession to the massacre of 17 people was released Monday afternoon by state prosecutors.
-snip-
By Paula McMahon, Tonya Alanez and Lisa J. HuriashContact Reporters
Sun Sentinel
AUGUST 6, 2018, 4:40 PM
Read more: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-nikolas-cruz-confession-20180806-story.html
heaven05
(18,124 posts)he'll probably get the insane asylum, stay there a few years and be released when he gets all better wouldn't surprise me really.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)The school did nothing.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)TomCADem
(17,390 posts)His guardians had him in an IEP, but once he is 18, he gets to control his own educational decisions.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)I don't get it
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)But I don't for one minute believe this act about demonic voices. Maybe he does have a chemical imbalance, I don't know. But all indications are that he really wants to live, not die. He tried to sneak away from the shooting by posing as a victim. Most mass shooters kill themselves. He offered a guilty plea in exchange for dropping the death penalty. It seems to me like he really doesn't want to die.
This strikes me more as an insanity defense ploy.
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)according to the school system. The system did nothing at all.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Yes. The schools failed. The FBI failed. His foster parents failed. There was a whole lot of failure. He's seriously disturbed.
And I still don't buy his demon act. It's a ploy. Have a nice day.
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)People generally when having bad thoughts think of demons are doing it. Especially when they are in your head 24 hours a day. Some people will drink a lot to make themselves pass out to get sleep. It is almost impossible to sleep with the voices yelling and screaming at you 24 hours a day. Some people find relief by occupying themselves by playing games until they pass out.
It is all in the head. If a person is lucky they can find the correct medication that allows them to function without being drunk all the time.
Demons no, What the person can describe yes. How does a person say "my brain wants me to go and kill the people I know in school" How does a kid describe such a thought process?
LisaL
(44,974 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)You're still locked up probably longer under this route plus legal definitions are scientifically lacking.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)I dunno. I long ago stopped trying to pretend that I know what a murderer thinks or feels. I don't. But I can see very plainly that his actions since the massacre show somebody who is very afraid of dying yet had few qualms about inflicting that on multiple other innocent people.
Therefore, I think he's totally full of shit about the demons.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 6, 2018, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)
told him what he was doing was wrong, and that he should do everything possible to avoid capture by authorities. People who are legally insane have no concept of right or wrong, but Cruz is an extraordinary exception.
Or... he's full of shit.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)The kid was so lost in his thoughts and drowned in misery that he snapped. All the ugly nasty thoughts he had about kids at school, about his ex girlfriend, about people who bullied him, fantasies about getting back at them, whole nine yards, manifested themself.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)He was never in foster care, adopted as an infant.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)going to change that.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)But at the end of the day, he's a seriously disturbed individual and there was failure on multiple fronts to prevent this tragedy. And I think he's totally full of shit and trying to save his ass with the whole demon thing.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Seems pretty clear he knew exactly what he was doing.
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)If by begging, you mean he absolutely refused, then you would be right.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/18/us/nikolas-cruz-baker-act.html
Im not concerned and Im not afraid, she told the clinician, the Henderson records say. My son has pellet guns, and hes always respected the rules of where they can and cant be used.
Unable or unwilling to try to forcibly commit Mr. Cruz, the school drafted a safety plan that prohibited him from bringing a backpack to school. He was also barred from practicing shooting skills with the Junior R.O.T.C. organization at the school, which he had joined.
In November 2016, Mr. Cruz refused any more special education assistance in school, as was his right since he had turned 18, and his mother agreed, according to Robert W. Runcie, superintendent of the Broward County Public Schools. Mr. Cruzs behavior deteriorated over the following months until Feb. 8, 2017, when he was transferred to an alternative learning center.
Three days later, Mr. Cruz purchased the AR-15 rifle.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)A year with a shrink and that kid goes from being a mass murdering worthless piece of excrement to a fully functioning member of society. And not necessarily needing meds.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)marylandblue
(12,344 posts)He had a long history of mental illness and violence from the time he was a toddler. But there is nothing in the record about hearing voices.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-consultant-report-full-20180803-story.html
LisaL
(44,974 posts)I don't think he heard voices, I think he is trying to get off on insanity defense.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)He is trying to avoid the death penalty. He may well have heard voices, but that doesn't qualify for an insanity defense and his lawyers will tell him that.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Whatever his lawyers are telling him now, back during the confession he could have thought that if he claims he hears voices, that would qualify him for insanity.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)But schizophrenia commonly develops in the late teens or early twenties and stress can precipitate the first round of symptoms. He was definitely someone who should have already been under psychiatric care. IF he was, it's likely he stopped going after his mother died.
I think a lot of that will come out at trial.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)shoot up the school. As far as I can tell he never mentions that voices are telling him to do it. So I think he is full of it, when he claimed after his arrest that he heard this voices.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I believe it is a sincere confession, not trying to cover anything up, not trying to hide anything. His lawyers will try to hinge on the voices thing but any psychologist will explain, and as the interviewer tried to explain, internal thoughts are not "voices." That's just the mind body duality.
Disassociation after a trauma is common and people snap. That's not an insanity defense but it would be useful for avoiding the death penalty.
He was interviewed before getting a lawyer. His confession is honest.
He's made a video before the shooting, talking about his plans. Where were these "voices" then?
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)His brother would not have known about what he said to the interrogator. It is very likely this kid had a weird ass association with his internal thought processes. He also named his internal demons with some German metal music.
Ironically, if he kept a diary, like James Holmes, he'd have a better chance pleading insanity, but I don't think he was as insane as James Holmes by any stretch.
I'm not saying he's insane. I'm saying he's mentally disturbed and has a weird perverse association with his internal thought processes. You know, the voice inside your head. The interrogator spends quite some time trying to explain to him everyone can think internally.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I've spent quite some time reading the full transcript and he's clearly describing his internal thought process. The kid likely suffered from severe depression and isolation and his conscious mind disassociated when his mom died. Coupled with the fact that he could easily get a gun, that America's mental health system doesn't exist, and that American's just don't give a fuck about each other, it led him to commit an atrocity.
Roy Rolling
(6,928 posts)If only he'd have done that to himself before instead of after.
It'd have been tragic. But not dragged other people into his personal problems.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that werent secured are out of control in our society. As such, heres what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. Im not debating the legal language, I just think its the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because its clear that they should never have had a gun.
1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learners license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.
Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a drivers license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.
guss
(239 posts)I have had hunter safety course back in the 80's
It was a good training to learn safety and handling of guns to get your license.
never would of thought of owning a hand gun or semi auto assault rifle. just hunting.
I was thinking today they should start with hunter safety if u pass that you only can have a Shot gun 3 shots.
Rifle 7 shot. you have to pass to get the gun.
renew every 10 years.
if you want to own a Hand gun you have to train and get a certificate every 5 years to register and have 2 instructors
sign off on your certificate to show you are a sane and safe for ownership and license.
If you want a Semi auto Assault Rifle you have to train and get certified every 4 months.
Registered with the state and have 4 instructors sign off that you are Sane and safe for ownership that weapon.
If you want to shoot full automatic you are registered with the federal and local police, and have a book
like a dive book showing that you have regular training for the year and they can stamp your book that you can
store and have that weapon.
guns are power and must have great responsibility.
If you are certified it would be great boasting and pride that they can maintain that certificate, licenses, and ownership.
also helpful to the community.
instead of a random good guy with a gun going against a Bad guy with the gun.
The Cops would know the good guy, and not just see him as another hot hand.
been thinking about this.
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)You are controlling people's access to and use of guns. But, if you are happy calling it people control, rather than gun control, then whatever floats your boat.
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)That used that old, tired line "guns don't kill people, people do". Plus, they sure love to control people in all other circumstances. I think they'd respond positively to the language change. Sure, people do kill people and that's what we'd all like to do something about. You are basically agreeing with them in a small way. Create that common ground... They'll be more likely to listen to what you have to say. I like it. It's creative. I've never heard anyone use that terminology, but I think that could be an effective way of talking about these things with conservatives.
riversedge
(70,285 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)to be a benefit to society. Leave him in a cage until he dies of natural causes. Send him to Mars for storage. When he dies of whatever, do a 45 second piece on him and let his name be forgotten forever.
Stuart G
(38,439 posts)I know a few people who are "seriously disturbed" It is the school's and society's roll to help those people..
I don't know if he went and asked for help, or his parents knew or the teachers knew. If he did and they knew well that makes it even more disturbing...BUT..AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT....
VERY FEW SERIOUSLY DISTRUBED PEOPLE GO INTO A SCHOOL AND SHOOT TO KILL 17 PEOPLE.!!
Got that?...Most disturbed people take it out on themselves...and I knew a few who committed suicide..Oh, as stated earlier, if he didn't have access to a gun, he probably would not have killed anyone,,(maybe himself)..
His access to a gun, made his plans possible. And it is Florida..Who in the state made it possible for this person to get a gun and kill 17 people?...Answer that one....
LisaL
(44,974 posts)He had no criminal record (despite police showing up at his home numerous times when his mother called 911), and wasn't ever involuntarily committed. So there was nothing preventing him from buying guns.
Stuart G
(38,439 posts)Thanks for anyone who wants to take that one on....
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)And his flags were flaming crimson red. No need for a criminal record. All that is needed is for a family member or police to petition for his loss of gun rights.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)This was not someone who should ever have had a gun or been allowed to live on his own.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-consultant-report-full-20180803-story.html
0rganism
(23,967 posts)you got some time to do here first, boy, not gonna let you off the hook that easy
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,829 posts)If he asserts an insanity defense his premeditation of the crime and his attempts to escape will be used as evidence that he knew what he was doing and that it was wrong. The relevant Florida statute says insanity can be used as an affirmative defense if:
"The defendant had a mental infirmity, disease, or defect; and (b) Because of this condition, the defendant: 1. Did not know what he or she was doing or its consequences; or 2. Although the defendant knew what he or she was doing and its consequences, the defendant did not know that what he or she was doing was wrong."
Although Cruz is clearly disturbed, it's doubtful an insanity defense would succeed.