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jpak

(41,758 posts)
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 08:29 AM Jun 2018

You're on your own, US tells Syrian rebels, as Assad goes on offensive

Source: The Guardian

The US has warned Syrian rebels in the south-west of the country they should not expect military support to help them resist a major government offensive.

The message from Washington comes as Russian jets struck an opposition-held town on Sunday in the first air cover provided by Moscow to an expanding Syrian army offensive in the strategic area bordering Jordan and the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights.

The US message sent to heads of the Free Syrian Army said Washington wanted to make clear that “you should not base your decisions on the assumption or expectation of a military intervention by us”.

The Syrian army began ramping up its assault last week in order to recapture the area.

<more>

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/24/youre-on-your-own-us-tells-syrian-rebels-as-assad-goes-on-offensive

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You're on your own, US tells Syrian rebels, as Assad goes on offensive (Original Post) jpak Jun 2018 OP
Let the wholesale slaughter of the remaining Syrian people begin. sinkingfeeling Jun 2018 #1
Dear fuckster UpInArms Jun 2018 #2
Aligned with two murderous, barbaric, dictatorial regimes. yallerdawg Jun 2018 #3
Can't criticize it. Igel Jun 2018 #4
Pretty good summation. nt 7962 Jun 2018 #8
Thanks n/t ewagner Jun 2018 #9
Turd sandwich from the get go... Xolodno Jun 2018 #13
Putin told us to cease and desist lark Jun 2018 #5
Ijustknowit'strue nt. heaven05 Jun 2018 #6
The republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief, Comrade Casino, is doing the bidding Achilleaze Jun 2018 #7
Does this war no longer amuse the Trump family? They tire of its demands? JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2018 #10
What a pal. Firestorm49 Jun 2018 #11
PUTIN WINS AGAIN - Big Time Now!!! BadGimp Jun 2018 #12
Good, we should have never provided arms or support to these "rebels" Devil Child Jun 2018 #14
And this was inevitable Yupster Jun 2018 #15

UpInArms

(51,284 posts)
2. Dear fuckster
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 08:39 AM
Jun 2018

Quit doing Putin’s bidding

Then, we will know there “was no collusion”

Signed,

The World

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
3. Aligned with two murderous, barbaric, dictatorial regimes.
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 08:45 AM
Jun 2018

Now, toss in China, North Korea and a few others - we're no longer "the good guys" on the world stage.

Happy deplorables, though.

Igel

(35,320 posts)
4. Can't criticize it.
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 08:53 AM
Jun 2018

Look at where it is. Jordan would be foolish to grant permission, and to use Israeli air space would be to invite claims of Israeli complicity in the rebellion against Assad. Israel's so far been just on its own side and used self-defense as its justification for air strikes, not "we want to overthrow Assad."

The definition-based fallacy at work here is in the referent for "Syrian rebels." We like to think that it's only words that matter, but it's really referents, what the words refer to, what they mean, that matters in propositional logic and judgments as to veridicality.

I hear "Syrian rebels" and I think the Kurds and others in the east and northeast. These are not they; these have not had US troops embedded. These are the rebels that we had that wonderful program that cost millions of dollars and months of training, only to have a couple of Syrians graduate. Most of the rest went to fight for groups that the US was not supportive of. It was a boondoggle, but it was a boondoggle that we hushed up over. Smells like team spirit. In other words, "Syrian rebels" has a different referent in the headline from what this reader, at least, assumed in feeling the original sense of outrage.

Any good wordsmith would be aware of this. Otherwise s/he should go back to high school.

Now, these are also rebels that resisted not so much ISIS as Assad. The US's fight has been with ISIS first, and to a smaller extent avoiding Kurdish oppression. This is neither. We've put a line in the sand between Assad/Russia and Kurdish-tinged/US territory, but we've said nothing about Arab rebels in the SW under Trump.

So not only is it logistically difficult to do much to help these rebel, but the ideological/Realpolitik reason that we use in helping those in the east is also lacking.

Now, we can condemn the US presence in the east even as we cry "perfidy" in not providing a US presence in the west (anything for a cry of condemnation), but while not enshrined in current treaty there's an old international doctrine of hot pursuit. It says that if a country is hosting a hostile force that stages raids into or invades another country, that country has a right to pursue their foe across the border and the host country has no real right to complain about its violation of sovereignty. A country could not use claims of sovereignty to shield a hostile force while claiming immunity from consequences. This was extended to lawless areas where claims of sovereignty by the "host country" were specious and the hostile force was really in charge. If nothing else, we could dig deep into tradition for a US presence accompanying local forces in the east. There's no such justification in the SW.

Xolodno

(6,395 posts)
13. Turd sandwich from the get go...
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 06:06 PM
Jun 2018

The rebels, and I'm over simplifying this...

1. Extreme hard elements assisted by foreign combatants wanted a extremist caliphate.

2. Hard elements although not as extreme as ISIS, weren't exactly humane.

3. Moderates...they were in a small minority and really had no chance of taking control.

4. Kurds....who basically want to advance the cause of having their own nation. Can't blame them. But within the Kurds, there is "debate" on what that country will look like...but that's another long discussion.

5. Sad reality. Assad is probably the leading "moderate"...even though a brutal dictator.

In Israel's case, its no surprise they kept things at arms length. They may despise Assad, but fear worse on who could replace him.

As for the US, we never had much of a dog in this fight. Prior to the collapse of the USSR, this would have been nipped in the bud quickly. Now Russia is returning things to the status quo...and sad to say, that may be the best option.

Hope...lot of Syrians migrated out of there and are now in Europe. Maybe, like Lebanon after its civil war, some will return later and build the country.

lark

(23,123 posts)
5. Putin told us to cease and desist
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 09:43 AM
Jun 2018

and drumpf just can't say no to his master, who he both loves and fears.

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
7. The republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief, Comrade Casino, is doing the bidding
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 11:07 AM
Jun 2018

of the freaking kremlin again.

The republican's Syrian Surrender ranks right up there on the Shame Meter with their Shanghai Surrender. They just do what Pooty Poot of the Pee Pee Tapes says.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,354 posts)
10. Does this war no longer amuse the Trump family? They tire of its demands?
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 12:05 PM
Jun 2018

This war's length exceeds their collective attention span?

Firestorm49

(4,035 posts)
11. What a pal.
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 12:25 PM
Jun 2018

He’s doing his best to hand countries over to his communist friends. After all, it was Russia and China who wanted war games to come to an end in the Korean Peninsula. They’ve pushed the point for years. And who delivers, the good old US of A. North Korea has proven time and time again that it gives two shits about any treaty or agreement. Their goal is resolute. The ultimate removal of troops from South Korea, as what’s his name has proposed, will destroy the security of South Korea and hand it over to his commie buddies. Syrian troops are now solo in their quest against Bashar al-Assad, handing it over to his commie buddies.
I abhor war and detest our involvements in them, but the world is cruel and conflict breeds conflict.
We need to protect and support our allies above all, through NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Alliance, and our own support as a real America.
And where are the Republicans in all of this? Who the hell knows. The coming elections may prove disconcerting in many ways. Blue wave vs.vote rigging with no real concern on the part of the GOP? Control of power at any cost. I guess we’ll see. I only hope we still can vote by then, and don’t have to stand at attention to adorn the Respected Leader of America on myTV every morning. After all, he really does want us to adore him, by force if necessary.
I never thought I’d see this day.

 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
14. Good, we should have never provided arms or support to these "rebels"
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 08:20 PM
Jun 2018

The sooner these remaining pockets of militants are pacified by the Syrian Government the better. The war needs to end.

Yupster

(14,308 posts)
15. And this was inevitable
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 11:53 PM
Jun 2018

Once the Russians landed in Syria, Assad was going to regain control of the country. The only thing the US could accomplish is to somehow protect the Kurds. The rest of it was out of our hands unless we want to start a war with Russia over Syria.

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