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Eugene

(61,964 posts)
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 12:57 PM Aug 2012

U.S. court strikes down graphic warnings on cigarettes

Source: Reuters

By David Ingram and Anna Yukhananov
WASHINGTON | Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:33pm EDT

(Reuters) - A U.S. appeals court on Friday struck down a law that requires tobacco companies to use graphic health warnings, such as of a man exhaling smoke through a hole in his throat.

The 2-1 decision by the court in Washington, D.C., contradicts another appeals court's ruling in a similar case earlier this year, setting up the possibility the U.S. Supreme Court will weigh in on the dispute.

The court's majority in the latest ruling found the label requirement from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration violated corporate speech rights.

"This case raises novel questions about the scope of the government's authority to force the manufacturer of a product to go beyond making purely factual and accurate commercial disclosures and undermine its own economic interest -- in this case, by making 'every single pack of cigarettes in the country mini billboard' for the government's anti-smoking message," wrote Judge Janice Rogers Brown of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.

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Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/24/us-usa-cigarettes-labels-idUSBRE87N0NL20120824

45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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U.S. court strikes down graphic warnings on cigarettes (Original Post) Eugene Aug 2012 OP
The world moves forward, we move backward. nt onehandle Aug 2012 #1
Mitt Philosophy: Corporations are people.. cyclezealot Aug 2012 #3
There Are Already Health Warnings n/t Suziq Aug 2012 #7
No - We Harass Smokers Suziq Aug 2012 #4
Don't talk about "ridiculous prices" Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #9
it's not about you! Carolina Aug 2012 #35
Alcohol isn't dangerous when used correctly. NutmegYankee Aug 2012 #39
Exactly. DeSwiss Aug 2012 #14
This photo is why I have a problem with it Mojorabbit Aug 2012 #21
After developing devastating health consequences..... DeSwiss Aug 2012 #30
Is there a single person in the US who is not already aware that smoking is bad for them? 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #22
Children. They are the official unofficial targets of Big Tobacco. onehandle Aug 2012 #25
And kids are thoroughly motivated by longterm consequences 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #38
Meanwhile, the federal gov't is giving almost $200 million of OUR MONEY annually to tobacco farmers slackmaster Aug 2012 #2
Tobacco products here in the UK feature large and graphic warnings. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2012 #5
Canada has them, Australia's working on it TrogL Aug 2012 #11
You'd think that one on the bottom left would be enough for most guys to quit alarimer Aug 2012 #28
They know it is BS former9thward Aug 2012 #33
Vasoconstrictors lead to ED it isn't rocket science. Exultant Democracy Aug 2012 #40
If it was as simple as that scores of millions of smokers would not be having sex. former9thward Aug 2012 #41
That is like saying smoking doesn't age your skin, because it's age related Exultant Democracy Aug 2012 #42
You have an agenda so evidence doesn't matter to you. former9thward Aug 2012 #44
A bought-and-paid-for court system. nt valerief Aug 2012 #6
yep. Not very pretty, is it ailsagirl Aug 2012 #26
The people attempting to have these graphics have far more money than Big Tobacco. former9thward Aug 2012 #34
More graphics/ads are needed IMO CountAllVotes Aug 2012 #8
I quit, and it's not that hard... xtraxritical Aug 2012 #19
Reuters did not link to the USCA-DC opinion as a reference... xocet Aug 2012 #10
I'm happy about this. Are we going to put graphic warnings on cars, booze, prescriptions, etc.? ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #12
Can't compare any of those. alp227 Aug 2012 #17
Actually, cars do cause accidents when used as directed. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #18
Fatalities from unavoidable car accidents are very rare muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #32
cigarettes have no redeeming value Carolina Aug 2012 #36
Nothing really has redeeming value because all value is subjective. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #37
I suspect that they are a cash cow for government primavera Aug 2012 #43
This judge brought to you by our friendly Resident W! benld74 Aug 2012 #13
There we go again..."corporate" free speech rights..... Swede Atlanta Aug 2012 #15
"corporate speech rights" are an unconstitutional legal farce foisted upon us by a corrupt court. Vincardog Aug 2012 #20
Were there not already enough warnings that cigarettes may cause health problems? 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #23
Don't like this trend..."corporate speech rights." dixiegrrrrl Aug 2012 #16
good WooWooWoo Aug 2012 #24
It's a dumb idea. MrSlayer Aug 2012 #27
Corporate "free speech"? Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #29
When do we get graphic images on HFCS...or white flour...or alcohol... MercutioATC Aug 2012 #31
I know an anti-smoking picture that would WORK to dissuade kids from smoking jmowreader Aug 2012 #45

cyclezealot

(4,802 posts)
3. Mitt Philosophy: Corporations are people..
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 01:06 PM
Aug 2012

If there are no health warnings, then tobacco CEO's should be put on trial for premeditated murder.

Suziq

(1,009 posts)
4. No - We Harass Smokers
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 01:11 PM
Aug 2012

By imposing ridiculous prices via taxes and higher medical insurance premiums (yep - I pay more as a smoker). Do you pay more for indulging in your brand of risky behavior?

It is LEGAL! I am well aware of the dangers without the graphics.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
9. Don't talk about "ridiculous prices"
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 01:18 PM
Aug 2012

A packet of 20 Marlboro is about US$12 here in the UK; it's about $15 in Australia. The US has lower prices for tobacco products than most of the rest of the world, even with higher prices due to taxation over the past decade.

Carolina

(6,960 posts)
35. it's not about you!
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 07:48 AM
Aug 2012

it's about preventing young people from picking up the nasty, health destroying habit. And that habit is a public health menace because of the myriad dangers of second hand smoke. Cigarette smoking causes >400,000 deaths/year. They have no redeeming value

The print warnings were insufficient, hence the graphics since people generally respond to GRAPHIC images.

The it's legal emphasis is weak. Alcohol is legal, too; guns are legal, too... but I would love some graphic ads showing people the health and safety ravages of both.

NutmegYankee

(16,201 posts)
39. Alcohol isn't dangerous when used correctly.
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 12:47 PM
Aug 2012

It's misuse that causes problems. Smoking on the other hand will hurt or kill you when used correctly.

I'm German-American and festive social use of wine and beer are part of my cultural heritage. I detest the prohibitionist movement which used anti-German hate in the nineteen teens to help their movement and destroy our cultural heritage in the US. It would be obscene to put graphic ads on a bottle of wine.

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
21. This photo is why I have a problem with it
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:30 PM
Aug 2012

This does not happen to most smokers and when you are trying to prevent young people from starting it is bad to exaggerate as they only have to look around and see most smokers do not have mouths like this. I quit years three years ago and it is a horrible habit but these photos may do more harm than good. They certainly would not have made me quit. JMO

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
30. After developing devastating health consequences.....
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 09:00 PM
Aug 2012

...I too quit smoking on January 31, 2009, - that was the day I went into the hospital for surgery to correct 40 years of smoking's damage. And while there to get that fixed, they found more goodies -- also linked to smoking.

Yet I would rather endure a lifetime of ugly tobacco disease pictures than to risk even one person going through what I have. Not to mention what others have gone through that is much worse. I wish now these kinds of pics had been around when I was a kid watching John Cameron Swazey's Old Golds wafting smoke on his news desk or Johnny Carson taking a puff as they came back from commercials. They made it all seem so right and normal.

Tobacco has few positives and while we can explain much of this continued smoking behavior on the past lack of understanding -- particularly since we were lied to so thoroughly and by doctors no less -- we now know that disease and heartache is the potential future for smokers who ignore these warnings. Not to mention the widows and children left behind in smoking's wake.

Are these pics over-the-top? Yes. That's what it'll take to try to undo the normalization of swallowing smoke into our lungs. And if we believe that the government has a responsibility to provide healthcare for all Americans in order to protect their health, then I think these picture warnings are part and parcel with that goal.

IMHO

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
22. Is there a single person in the US who is not already aware that smoking is bad for them?
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 05:16 PM
Aug 2012

If they missed the PSAs on the radio, TV, magazines, the popular representation of smoking in movies, the warning labels already on the cigarettes, the numerous health seminars they were forced to go to while in school and ultimately the warnings from helpful strangers every time they light up in public (those cause cancer dontchaknow!) then I doubt one more label would get through to them.

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
25. Children. They are the official unofficial targets of Big Tobacco.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 06:39 PM
Aug 2012

School? Kids do the opposite.

They need refreshers. Constantly.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
38. And kids are thoroughly motivated by longterm consequences
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 11:55 AM
Aug 2012

that's all they care about really. What will happen to me 60 years from now?

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
5. Tobacco products here in the UK feature large and graphic warnings.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 01:12 PM
Aug 2012


About 20% of the population still smoke.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
28. You'd think that one on the bottom left would be enough for most guys to quit
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 08:41 PM
Aug 2012

Never mind the other risks. People are terrible at assessing risk. They think flying is more dangerous than driving to the airport, when driving is far riskier in general.

former9thward

(32,096 posts)
33. They know it is BS
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 07:20 AM
Aug 2012

They know smoking does not give them ED. Scores of millions smoke and they are having sex just fine. Most ED is age related and someone tries to blame smoking. Nonsense.

former9thward

(32,096 posts)
41. If it was as simple as that scores of millions of smokers would not be having sex.
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 08:59 AM
Aug 2012

And they are. People/groups with agendas try to tie age related aliments with smoking without evidence.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
42. That is like saying smoking doesn't age your skin, because it's age related
Mon Aug 27, 2012, 08:34 PM
Aug 2012

ED has multiple risk factors, your argument is absurd.

former9thward

(32,096 posts)
44. You have an agenda so evidence doesn't matter to you.
Tue Aug 28, 2012, 09:00 PM
Aug 2012

You will pick out any ailment and somehow tie it to smoking no matter how tenuous.

former9thward

(32,096 posts)
34. The people attempting to have these graphics have far more money than Big Tobacco.
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 07:24 AM
Aug 2012

The federal government has unlimited resources to use in court cases. Nothing was "bought and paid for". It is something called the First Amendment which many people hate if it is used for something they don't like.

CountAllVotes

(20,878 posts)
8. More graphics/ads are needed IMO
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 01:14 PM
Aug 2012

Maybe some of these smokers out there might quit if they saw a machine pumping blood out of someone's lungs that has cancer from smoking perhaps?

What I hate is that a huge segment of the population of the entire world has gotten hooked on tobacco and they cannot quit.

They all die eventually of course, but smoking will make it faster and far more furious.

 

xtraxritical

(3,576 posts)
19. I quit, and it's not that hard...
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:10 PM
Aug 2012

Drink hard liquor until you pass out every day for about a week, smoke your ass off while you're getting drunk. When you can't stand it anymore throw out all your booze and tobacco. For about the next three days you will shake, and puke and you won't know if you want a cigarette or a drink but you'll be too sick for either. By the fourth day you will be a nonsmoker nondrinker and you will never go back after that experience! Seriously, it works.

xocet

(3,873 posts)
10. Reuters did not link to the USCA-DC opinion as a reference...
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 01:25 PM
Aug 2012

Here is the opinion:

www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/4C0311C78EB11C5785257A64004EBFB5/$file/11-5332-1391191.pdf

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
12. I'm happy about this. Are we going to put graphic warnings on cars, booze, prescriptions, etc.?
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 01:53 PM
Aug 2012

It's silly.

Unrelated side note: Cute snip. Small, yet bold.

alp227

(32,064 posts)
17. Can't compare any of those.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 02:57 PM
Aug 2012

When cigarettes are used as directed, people actually get ill or die.

When cars are used as directed, they do NOT cause accidents.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
18. Actually, cars do cause accidents when used as directed.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 03:27 PM
Aug 2012

I don't care how well you can drive, a patch of black ice can send you spinning.

Carolina

(6,960 posts)
36. cigarettes have no redeeming value
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 07:58 AM
Aug 2012

they smell, they pollute, they kill in myriad ways, often by first impacting quality of life (e.g. emphysema) and they threaten public health. The other items you cited, especially cars and prescription drugs, are designed for transportation and to cure disease, eliminate pain, etc. That people abuse them -- sometimes in deadly ways -- is another matter. And BTW some drugs already have blackbox warnings.

I thought the ads were great for young people and, as an MD, I was glad the FDA SHOWED the truth. But of course, money and corporations won out... as always.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
37. Nothing really has redeeming value because all value is subjective.
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 11:53 AM
Aug 2012

Value comes from our imagination, and does not exist outside of our imagination. All value is imaginary.

primavera

(5,191 posts)
43. I suspect that they are a cash cow for government
Tue Aug 28, 2012, 11:41 AM
Aug 2012

If taxes from cigarettes were used to cover the increased health care costs incurred by smoking, I would say that's terrific. But it doesn't seem to work that way. Tobacco tax revenues simply go into general slush funds to be used for whatever pet project some legislator wants to fund. Because smoking is an indefensible practice, raising taxes on it becomes a quick and easy way to raise revenues because, after all, it's only smokers who will have to pay and who cares what they think? Everybody hates them anyway. Again, I am all in favor of personal responsibility and, insofar as tobacco results in increased social costs, it's absolutely appropriate that such costs should be born by those who contribute to the problems. But I disagree with the prevailing attitude that smokers should shoulder the burden of paying for schools, roads, police, etc., things that benefit everyone but no one ever actually wants to pay for themselves.

benld74

(9,911 posts)
13. This judge brought to you by our friendly Resident W!
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 02:01 PM
Aug 2012

Female Clarence Thomas she is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
15. There we go again..."corporate" free speech rights.....
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 02:24 PM
Aug 2012

Now that we have a corporatist government, corporate interests will always be placed ahead of those of actual living humans because as Mittens has pronounced, "corporations are people too".

This is the sick logic we have come to. What a difference an ocean makes. The Australian High Court recently upheld a new law that not only requires large graphics and photos of the ravages of smoking on cigarette packages but defines the branding. All cigarettes must be sold in plain white packaging with black text. The company identity is in the same place in simple black text regardless of the company whose cigarettes they are.

While I might think that is a good idea, that might be a little too far in the other direction. But one thing is certain in this country the corporations have won by buying the Supreme Court and our elected officials.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
20. "corporate speech rights" are an unconstitutional legal farce foisted upon us by a corrupt court.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:28 PM
Aug 2012

It is the germ from which the death of our Democracy has grown.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
23. Were there not already enough warnings that cigarettes may cause health problems?
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 05:19 PM
Aug 2012

I challenge you to find one person who isn't fully aware of the risks already.

We may as well require store owners to look at anyone who buys cigarettes in disgust then suckerpunch them in the gut. As they're wheezing for breath they could get a lecture on how they're killing themselves and maybe the other store patrons could be required to spit on them.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
16. Don't like this trend..."corporate speech rights."
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 02:26 PM
Aug 2012

But try to sue a corporation for massive pollution of air/water and see what happens.

WooWooWoo

(454 posts)
24. good
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 05:24 PM
Aug 2012

It's not like anyone over the age of, say 10, doesn't realize cigarettes are bad for you.

I'd have less of a problem with making cigarettes illegal than with forcing manufacturers to put completely ridiculous pictures showing the side effects of their products.

Might as well show someone the picture of a coronary bypass on every McDonalds bag or pictures of skin cancer on a tanning booth.

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
27. It's a dumb idea.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 08:33 PM
Aug 2012

Everyone knows smoking is bad for you. Why not put pictures of accident victims on liquor bottles or pictures of heart disease on butter packages?

It's stupid.

 

MercutioATC

(28,470 posts)
31. When do we get graphic images on HFCS...or white flour...or alcohol...
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 09:17 PM
Aug 2012

...or beach vacation pamphlets...or any number of other things that we do that are harmful?

It's overreaching and stupid.

Stop passing laws to protect me from myself.

jmowreader

(50,566 posts)
45. I know an anti-smoking picture that would WORK to dissuade kids from smoking
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 01:47 AM
Aug 2012

Imagine a cold, gray, shitty day. It's raining hard. And right in the middle of it are an ugly man and an ugly woman, soaked to the bone, freezing their asses off while sucking on cigarettes.

The caption: "Cigarettes are addictive and you can't smoke indoors anymore. If you choose to smoke, this will be YOU."

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