Its abhorrent: Retired admiral slams Marine Corps troops for applauding Trumps attacks on a fr

[riversedge]

Source: raw story



13 Mar 2018 at 23:32 ET
Ret. Rear Admiral John Kirby (Photo: Screen capture)


Retired Rear Admiral John Kirby slammed the service members at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar who applauded President Donald Trump’s attacks on the press.

“Troops at Miramar applauded loudly when Trump pointed to the television cameras and said ‘fake news.’ It is unusual for a president to criticize the press in front of uniformed service members,” Los Angeles Times White House correspondent reported Tuesday

Read more: https://www.rawstory.com/2018/03/abhorrent-retired-admiral-slams-marine-corps-troops-applauding-trumps-attacks-free-press/

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Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Stuart G]

1. Very sad...Some people in the armed forces really don't know our history.

A free press is one of the reasons we have this country. Obviously, Trump doesn't care about a "free press"

[SHRED]

15. You don't need to know much history

To realize tRump was attacking the Constitution and not clap.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

28. It's not their fault.

Most of them are relatively young. History is not taught well in our schools. Most people leave high school and never read another book. Ever.

[bsiebs]

36. Oh please...

Of course it is their fault... these men and women are old enough to understand what they are supporting.. mindless support of the mindless rantings of a mindless fool...

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

49. Again, I see the essential problem is that

history is so very badly taught in the first place. Often by a man who is also the football coach and whose heart is in football, not teaching history. Recently I had a back and forth here on DU in which someone defended history classes in her high school being taught by a coach because it was just a series of dates, nothing important.

I agree that people ought to understand what they are supporting, but they don't. I know a man who voted for Trump and still thinks he's okay because he thinks there are too many rules and regulations out there. This from a man who spent his working life in the Forest Service.

[LanternWaste]

58. Can you support that allegation with objective evidence rather than simple anecdotes?

"is that history is so very badly taught in the first place..."

Can you support that allegation with objective evidence rather than simple anecdotes? (If not, you can always blame the school system for your inability to do so...)

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

65. I suppose the fact that every time they give basic

history tests to high school students they fail.

As do an awful lot of adults. No, I don't have the precise research at my fingertips, but if you want to argue that history is well taught in this country, and that people come out of high school with a firm grasp on history, then I will ask you to likewise support that.

Oh, heck, Christine O'Donnell who ran for the United States Senate in 2010 who actually had no clue that separation of Church and State was in the Constitution is the poster child for historical ignorance.

Actually, general trivia type stuff tends to reveal how vast the ignorance of history is in this country. Or how about those who claim George W Bush kept us safe from foreign attacks? I keep on wondering who they thought was President in September of 2001.

People who actually think that knowing what the Kardashians are up to, or what the Housewives of whatever city are doing, or the latest Bachelorette show is about, vastly outnumber those of us who know real history.

And I will still contend that history is often badly taught in this country. In my sophomore year of high school I was horrified to learn that I actually knew more history than my teacher, and I knew that wasn't a good thing.

[AdamGG]

70. Objectively, just look at teh percentage of Americans who can't answer basic questions about history

A shocking number of people can't name the 3 branches of government and can't answer basic questions on a wide range of issues.

[FakeNoose]

74. Many high schools no longer teach civics

I agree with you that high schools aren't teaching enough history, and they teach absolutely -NO- current events history. This was even true when I was in high school, and I'm a baby boomer. In the late 60's while everyone protested the Vietnam War, our history classes never even got to discussing World War II. Somehow there was never time to discuss why we were in a Cold War and why was communism a threat, etc.

We did have civics class in our senior year (I attended public school) and it was only then that teachers were allowed to discuss political parties, elections, voting trends, but you can bet there would be no proselytizing for either party allowed. If any parents got wind of a teacher telling their students anything good or bad about Democrats or Republicans, that teacher was reprimanded or fired. So teachers were always walking on eggshells, and wouldn't allow students to start any discussions about the Vietnam War, race relations, or current events of any kind. This was in the 1960's! Sometime after that, civics class was discontinued for "budget cuts."

How are kids ever going to learn anything if it's not taught in school? Don't assume they'll get balanced views from their parents and families. Don't assume that they'll seek the knowledge on their own, even though some students might. It's these poorly prepared minimally educated young people who become the prey of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh hate radio. They're the non-voters (or Trump-believers) of today.

[exboyfil]

76. Some coaches do a good job with history

My daughters' 8th/9th grade history teacher was a joy to talk with. He had a genuine love of history which I share.

Contrast with my daughters' 7th grade English teacher who was also a coach. Actually I pulled my youngest out of English and Social Studies in 7th and 8th grade and Homeschooled her in those subjects because of him (I had to do two classes - you are not allowed a pull out of a single class).

[Baconator]

67. That's just people...

...period.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

40. he pointed to the camera

You don't need to be a professor to figure out that TrumPutin is a dangerous fool. He pointed to the camera and proclaimed that what it was gathering was fake news. Every con artist depends upon the mark disbelieving his or her own senses and relying on what the con artist says. When the con artist is also the Commander in Chief, it is a threat to the entire world.

[maxrandb]

46. It's the President and the Commander of NAS Miramar's fault

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210356324

The troops should never be put in a position to be at a Partisan Speech in uniform.

Hell, if President Obama had made fun of Romney's "Magic Underwear", or Bush had made fun of Al Gore's environmental causes, troops would have cheered or laughed.

Difference is that neither of those Presidents, whether you like them or not, would DO SUCH A THING

Unfortunately, with Donnie Shit-for-Brains, the Commanders and the Base Public Affairs Officers need to make clear...IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that partisan attacks are NOT part of the CinC's visit.

I'm glad to see Retired Admiral Kirby speak out. But we need the Active Commanders to start living up to their oath.

[skylucy]

52. +1000 I agree!

[TheDebbieDee]

53. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a WINNER!

[LiberalLovinLug]

57. This is closer to the truth

There is obviously a peer pressure atmosphere, not to mention these are soldiers, and its the #@%@ing POTUS! And he's not an expert at much, but at crowd control and messaging he is. When you are in that kind of a position of authority, and you are already laughing at your own 'joke' while you point to a camera, you already have half the audience starting to smile. Then after he hurls the insult, all it takes is a few more loud and perhaps enthusiastic Trump supporting members to start clapping and laughing, to entice everyone else. Especially, I might add, with a group that is conditioned to act in unison and support their superior.

Trump knows this, and his team uses it for publicity purposes. So that later the TV story will show how he can be such a crowd pleaser and as some kind of proof that everyone, including the haloed troops, agree with him about the fake news MSM.

Pu.........lease.

[mrmpa]

55. The Commandant's reading List...........

See attached link for the books the Marine Commandant lists for Marines to read. It is not a suggestion, it is mandatory for each Marine read a certain amount of books related to his/her rank.

My late Dad, a 15 year Marine Corps Veteran, would be angry as the Admiral. My Dad read at least 2 newspapers a day, he had a library card that he used very often and the week before he died he was still reading.

My Mom has told me that she was never much of a reader until she met my Dad . She said he always had a paperback book in his back pocket. My Dad's rank was Technical Sergeant, education level, he got his GED in the Marine Corps. His work history was always that of a blue collar man.

https://www.usmcofficer.com/marine-corps-knowledge/commandants-reading-list/

[sl8]

61. Thanks for your post. n/t

[LanternWaste]

56. We're all born ignorant. It is however, our fault should we choose to stay as such

We're all born ignorant. It is however, our fault should we choose to stay as such. And anyone old enough to read has access to the relevant information... even the ones who blame schools without any evidence to support it for their own ignorance.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

73. I attended good public schools.

And even in them the teaching of history was shockingly bad. I don't feel that I need to go out and cite research on this topic. If you think history is taught well in this country, then good for you. But it's not. And the proof is in how very little average Americans know about any history. Recent, ancient, in between. Sadly, once most people leave high school they never bother to read anything other than the sports page of the local newspaper, if they even bother to do that.

Yeah, a lot of people choose to stay ignorant. They prefer to watch the garbage that passes for entertainment, never read books, never engage in discussing actual ideas. The truth is, most people haven't a clue about anything outside of popular media. Or sports. Oh, dear lord, don't get me started on that topic. People seem to think that who wins a specific game or tournament or World Series or Super Bowl is somehow important. It's not. It's just a game. But far more people invest energy and attention on those things than on things like whether or not a particular political candidate might be good for the job.

[xxqqqzme]

59. Well, then maybe recruits should have a class about the Constitution

before they take that oath.

[Ferrets are Cool]

71. It's not their fault? Pure BS.

[summer_in_TX]

72. Besides, they're being propagandized

by heavy doses of Fox News on all the bases.

Of course many of the efforts to stir up anger and divisiveness will fall on fertile soil and take root.

I agree it's not their fault, unless they've had the opportunity to talk and think it through with the help of someone who can articulate the truth and who has facts on their side.

[Nitram]

2. In general, there is a high level of conservatism in the ranks.

[The Wizard]

25. Conservatism has become

radical reactionary. Really just dupes or losers. Sometimes both.

[Moostache]

26. Conservatives need to divest from Trumpism or sacrifice the label forever in the USA...

There is nothing inherently "conservative" about being in lock step with a wannabe totalitarian at all.

I do not agree with any conservative positions, but I can recognize that those on the right are allowing their party and their brand to be co-opted by a madman and his sycophantic mouth-breathing slaves.

What the hell...we used have a party called the "Whigs" too, the dustbin of history is replete with other failed and now defunct political parties. We are devolving into a country of Democrats and people who say they hate Democrats and don't care about anything other than not seeing Democrats "win"....even if that means everyone loses in the end.

[DemocracyMouse]

32. If "conservatism" has become radical reactionary...

... then "conservatism" is the very definition of Trumpism.

We have to stop honoring this vicious, uneducated behavior as "conserving" anything.

[ancianita]

35. Which is fed by ultra-right radio programming (Limbaugh, etc.) part of Armed Forces Network,

often a part of their background as they go through their days on bases or in the field. It's the largest propaganda network of its kind in the world.

To have their CoC point to fellow citizens as "enemy" is treason they've been set up for by a tyrant.

[atreides1]

3. Semper Fi!!!

Evidently has limits!!!

I will never look upon the USMC the same ever again, and I definitely won't look upon them as a military arm that will protect or support the US Constitution!!!

[Moostache]

30. My respect for the USMC is not contingent on a small subset of hand-picked attendees for Trump...

What they cheered and the way they did it was dishonorable for sure, but the Corp itself is far more and has a far deeper history to this nation than the dishonorable actions of that group alone. There are thousands of active duty Marines that would lay down their lives for us without even blinking, and we need to respect them by admitting such devotion to one's country is rare and admirable while simultaneously holding those in their ranks that dishonor the whole accountable as well.

[2left4u]

41. SEMPER FI

You are correct and further the military is no fan of the press either.

Participate in a combat action with the press running around (like ghouls in a cemetery) digging for B.S. to turn into a story at any cost.

Your witnessing the effects of the preceding administrations "rules of engagement" (which were well meaning and put service members lives at higher risk) involving endless war and combat actions with no end in sight and constant mission creep.

They have earned their rights and nothing they did violated any rules or regs within the UCMJ.

[denbot]

50. Rules of engagement.. Dont wantonly murder civilians..

Boo fucking hoo, every civilian killed due to indiscriminate fire recruits three to take arms with whatever flavor is entrenched against allied forces. It’s common sense not to recruit for your enemy.

It’s safer to launch an Arc Light type strike on a neighborhood that contains insurgents, but then why the fuck are we there if not to excise a hostile force against the surrounding civilians?

How did “We had to destroy the village in order to save it” bullshit workout for us before?

[2left4u]

60. Boo Fucking hoo is right

You should probably familiarize yourself with the constant changes to the rules of engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as the authorization process for fire missions.
To say they were designed to protect civilian lives is talking point BS. The previous administration Command and Control structure put American lives at risk.
A asymmetrical conflicts in the Middle East are much different than were those of Southeast Asia, thankfully we learned from them.

Either way the point with regards to clapping for their Commander and Chief is fine...they clapped for Obama, Bush and Clinton....Ooooo Marines clapped for the commander and chief....you're right, Boo fucking Hoo.

[denbot]

62. Familiarize myself..

You mean like when I was deployed in the Gulf?
Yeah, I was familiar with them.

[2left4u]

66. Good

The first gulf war? verses 2.0, 2.1? Afghanistan 2.0 and 2.1 All different (especially the latter).

I must have missed the "rules of engagement" you speak of...we never were allowed to kill civilians indiscriminately, nor did we need issued a directive with specific guidance not to do it.

Glad you're on the same page now.

[lark]

4. Every day, in every way,

drumpf and his master Putin are doing their best to turn the US into a banana republic, with the assistance of most elected repugs.

[relogic]

7. ...and sadly with the assistance of our military. From military parades, unfettered defense expendit

ure and cult worship of US uniforms, etc.,-all Branches are complicit in bringing our democracy to a rapid death under this deficient excuse for a President and human being.

[The Wizard]

27. +10

Uniform worship is the route to extinction.

[SammyWinstonJack]

39. Does the Pentagon ever turn down any taxpayer funds thrown their way?

What a huge waste of our tax dollars, while everything crumbles around us. Not a fan.

[dchill]

5. It IS abhorrent, and I'm glad he said so.

[denbot]

6. I no longer feel guilty about knocking a few Marines teeth loose when I was a sailor.

Not that I felt bad at the time, but looking back over the years I thought I should have been a little less quick to take insult. Mayhaps I was actually a little bit slow to demonstrate my displeasure at their hubris.

[olegramps]

13. Your not alone brother. They are and always were glory seekers.

We slogged out in the mud, heat and better cold in Korea without much thanks or grandiose recognition that was heaped on every Marine, many who didn't even see combat. I salute their sacrifice, but it was no greater than others who served.

[blugbox]

29. Thank you BOTH

For your service!

[ADX]

51. "Glory seekers"? That's an extremely broad brush you're painting all Marines with...

...and it makes you sound like a bitter old man. Perhaps you'd like to edit your post a bit?

[SHRED]

8. They are sworn to DEFEND the Constitution

Not applaud it's destruction.

[pangaia]

12. So is the fuckwad in the white house.....

[SHRED]

14. Yes he is

And those who clapped chose a dictator over our Constitution.

[pangaia]

16. And maybe that shouldn't have me worried, but it does.

[SHRED]

17. Me too.

[malthaussen]

9. I'm surprised some senior officer of the Corps hasn't commented.

One can make all the "bad apple" comments he wishes -- and I'm sure they're applicable -- but the leaders at that post should make certain they take full advantage of this "teachable moment."

-- Mal

[pangaia]

10. Is that legal, for military people to show political opionions?

[40RatRod]

18. Apparently things have changed

During my 20 years on active duty, I never recall any of my fellow airmen discussing politics and I didn't either. I was political and I got permission from legal to stand outside the base during shift change with a sign for my candidate.

[oneshooter]

34. While in uniform? n/t

[40RatRod]

38. Nope

No. Changed out of my uniform first.

[obamanut2012]

22. Officers are never allowed to, others never while in uniform

And, non can actively campaign.

[pangaia]

23. So I am assuming the few cheering were in uniform.

WHY are they not in the brig?

You don't have to answer that..

[ancianita]

37. As an officer's wife during Vietnam, I learned all active duty military are forbidden to express

political opinions. That doesn't mean they can't give a fake response to their commander-in-chief.

I'm sure that hasn't changed, or there'd have been a lot more military opinion (more by brass than the rest) thrown into the arena before now.

[world wide wally]

11. It's about ime someone points this out.

I never understood why the press just doesn't pull the plug on Trump rallies

[pangaia]

21. It sells advertising and most broadcast media is fascist owned.

[aggiesal]

45. It's called ratings ...

and Donnie-2-Scoops gives them rating numbers.

[Mr. Ected]

19. Fake President. Will they applaud him when he's led away in leg irons?

Will they applaud the special counsel for multiple indictments lodged against this treasonous confederate?

Fake news my ass. The facts remain the facts, even if they completely destroy the very basis of Trump's so-called presidency.

[The Wizard]

31. Whenever Trump or his sycophant cult

say Fake News they really mean bad news, for them.

[Roland99]

20. Well. Wait. If it was tuned to Fox he was right!

[Wounded Bear]

24. This Marine agrees with the Admiral...

[workinclasszero]

33. Putin is corrupting our military now

Thanks to his puppet Trump and the traitors that control the republican party.

[braddy]

42. While all branches are vastly majority republican, the Marines are the most GOP.

[Crowman2009]

43. I'm sure they'll applaud him when their friends lose lives & limbs from a war based on a lie.

Some people only learn the hard way. That's the only way right-wing minions ever learn. Unfortunately, many lives having nothing to do with their sick ideology are lost in the process as well. Vietnam, and the AIDS epidemic being a couple of examples.

[elmac]

44. they are his peeps, 2/3rds voted for him

as did over 50% white females. There is just no cure for stupid.

[Capperdan]

47. Our President is a Practiced Huckster

These Marines are young kids, hand-picked I suspect, and gullible to a snake-oil salesman who knows how to pump up a gullible audience. He is disgusting beyond belief, please Mueller, hurry up.

[SCVDem]

48. I no longer doubt that this military

would turn on we the people if tRump ordered it.

We veterans and other citizens will not go quietly into the night.

There will be casualties, as we are not sheep!

Is America ready for an urban war with snipers, man traps and IED's?

My oath still stands!

[Ligyron]

69. That's right.

Not every Progressive is without combat training or means.

[tclambert]

54. Marines are supposed to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.

That includes the traitorous buffoon in the White House.

[bluescribbler]

63. Good for you, Admiral Kirby

The Marines' response doesn't surprise me, though. I was serving aboard the USS James C. Owens, (DD776), in the Tonkin Gulf when we learned about the killings at Kent State. A Gunners Mate said, "They should kill all those protesters." I guess he'd forgotten his oath "to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

[Cha]

64. Mahalo Admiral Kirby! I hope this gets

their attention!

Thank you, rivers!

[Jopin Klobe]

68. "It is unusual for a president to criticize the press in front of uniformed service members,

Oh, it's OK ...

... because an actual President hasn't done that yet ...

[pwb]

75. They need noise discipline.