Sanders: Clinton should have spoken up about Russian bots during election

[pnwmom]

Source: The Hill

In an interview with Vermont Public Radio, Sanders was asked why he did not warn his supporters leading up to the 2016 presidential election that Russian bots were attempting to sow division between him and Clinton by attacking Clinton on pro-Sanders social media forums.

"I did not know Russian bots were promoting my campaign," Sanders said. In the midst of all of this, I was out campaigning very hard for Hillary Clinton. So, let me leave it at that."

Sanders said a member of his team did speak with the Clinton campaign in September 2016 to warn them of "strange things happening" on social media, but suggested his opponents campaign had more information about the nature of the attacks. "If you and your campaign knew there was Russian meddling and it was trying to sow division, why not take that directly to your supporters? radio host Jane Lindholm asked. . . .

"They had more information about this than we did. And at this point we were working with them, Sanders said. We knew what we knew, when we knew it. And thats about all I can say."

Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/374912-sanders-why-didnt-clinton-campaign-speak-up-about-russian-bots-during-2016

---

How could Bernie HONESTLY think that Hillary could know more about the Russian meddling his campaign was seeing on his campaign sites than he did?

"So, let me leave it at that."
"And that's about all I can say."

No, it isn't. And Bernie's just making it worse. He has to know that Trump has been blaming Hillary, AS IF there was more she could have done.

[lunamagica]

1. Sanders, you sound so much like trump.

[Cha]

73. A former Clinton campaign staffer said it was nonsense that Sanders' campaign had reached

"A former Clinton campaign staffer said it was nonsense that Sanders' campaign had reached out to Clinton's about potential Russian interference. "No one from the Sanders campaign ever contacted us about this”—not in September, and not in “April and May.” Sanders said in the radio interview that he noticed "lots of strange things" during those months in 2016".

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210270244

Shame on him.

Hi Luna

[karynnj]

93. So, EVERY former Clinton staffer would know that a Sanders staffer reached out to someone in the

Clinton campaign?? Yet you assume that he is lying. That says a lot about you. PS - Even if the Clinton staffer were named, it is possible that he and she would have taken a rather vague comment that a Sanders staffer was seeing weird things online and brushed it off. Just as they brushed off Wisconsin people in their own staff pleading for a visit or resources.

[Cha]

99. All you have are insults.

[NurseJackie]

182. Very true! That type of response indicates that they are arguing from a position of weakness...

... clearly, those who stick to the facts maintain the upper hand.

[Cha]

248. Mahalo, Jackie!

Well said.

[pnwmom]

109. But the fact is that a number of Bernie campaign people in different parts of the country

have said they were seeing this, and there was no official outreach to the Hillary campaign -- in writing, that they could refer to now. Or even a meeting or a phone call between Bernie and Hillary, that he could refer to now.

[Cha]

124. Oh really? thank you for that update,

pnwmom.

[pnwmom]

128. For example:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-fake-news-russia_us_58c34d97e4b0ed71826cdb36



By late October, Mattes said he’d traced 40 percent of the domain registrations for the fake news sites he saw popping up on pro-Sanders pages back to Eastern Europe. Others appeared to be based in Panama and the U.S., or were untraceable. He wondered, “Am I the only person that sees all this crap floating through these Bernie pages?”

He wasn’t. Bernie supporters across the country had been noticing dubious websites and posters linked back to Eastern Europe long before Mattes did ― and even before The Washington Post reported in mid-June that Russian government hackers had stolen emails from the Democratic National Committee. They had been warning each other that something weird was going on, posting troll alerts and compiling lists of fake news sites.

SNIP

Sometimes it was hard to tell who was doing the trolling and for what purposes. Aleta Pearce, 54, who lives in Malibu, California, was an administrator of half a dozen pro-Sanders Facebook groups and a member of many others. In May 2016, she posted a memo to various Facebook groups about the fake news issue, warning of bogus sites.

“The pattern I’m seeing is if a member is repeatedly posting articles that are only from one URL that person is just there to push advertising,” Pearce wrote. “They probably have a sock account with little to no content. They are often from Russia or Macedonia.” (A “sock” or “sock puppet” account uses a false identity to deceive.)

[Cha]

129. Good information.. Thank you!

[ehrnst]

174. It seems like there was a lot going on that Bernie didn't know about

with his people in 2016.

[NurseJackie]

179. I've heard this mentioned many times before.

You're not alone in that observation.

[ehrnst]

173. And a "she didn't go to Wisconsin" reference shoehorned in FTW!!

When you have no argument left whatsoever to counter a valid criticism of Bernie, throw out "BUT SHE DIDN"T GO TO WISCONSIN!!!" to derail.

[lapucelle]

272. Weaver explained the misunderstanding to Politico on Wednesday.

"Sanders said that his campaign had shared information with the Clinton campaign about suspected Russian anti-Clinton trolls on a campaign Facebook page. But Weaver later acknowledged that the Vermont senator had no firsthand knowledge that this had happened.

Weaver said Sanders based his remark on an article published by NBC’s San Diego affiliate over the weekend about a campaign volunteer who claimed to have conducted his own investigation and brought the findings to the Clinton campaign in September — an assertion flatly denied by a former Clinton campaign aide."

"A guy who was on my staff … checked it out and he went to the Clinton campaign, and he said, ‘You know what? I think these guys are Russians,’” Sanders said. Weaver said Sanders had not verified the information in the article himself before stating it as fact.

The Sanders statement issued late Wednesday attributed to “an aide to Sen. Sanders” added “[Sanders] was using the word ‘campaign’ expansively to include not only the formal, institutional campaign, but also the broader network of volunteers and supporters of Bernie 2016 across the country.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/21/bernie-sanders-trump-russia-interference-420528

[rzemanfl]

119. n/t

[trueblue2007]

155. why is he still critizing Hillary. the election is over.

[lunamagica]

156. Just like with trump, Hillary lives rent-free inside Sanders head

These men can't get over the fact that Hillary received millions more votes than they did

[Gothmog]

201. Agreed

[Laurian]

2. Oh, FFS!

You know, I could go the rest of my life without hearing any more from or about Bernie Sanders.

He is not a Democrat. He does not want to be a Democrat.

I cannot believe he's criticizing/blaming Hillary for the Russian election meddling.

[Bleacher Creature]

35. This . Every word of it. NT

[Cha]

74. Not only that..

"A former Clinton campaign staffer said it was nonsense that Sanders' campaign had reached out to Clinton's about potential Russian interference. "No one from the Sanders campaign ever contacted us about this”—not in September, and not in “April and May.” Sanders said in the radio interview that he noticed "lots of strange things" during those months in 2016".

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210270244

Shame on him.

[Bleacher Creature]

148. As usual, he's a faithful member of his party of one.

Some things never change. Thanks, Cha!!

[Cha]

149. Yeah, I believe the Hillary Staffer..

Why wouldn't I?!

You're Welcome, Bleacher Creature

[NurseJackie]

183. Well said. Thank you.

148. As usual, he's a faithful member of his party of one.

Well said. Thank you.

[Blue_Adept]

3. He remains the vote I regret the most in my life that I cast in the MA primary

[lunamagica]

11. This is what I told someone who think Sanders will run and win: I constantly see

people who supported Sanders but now regret their vote. I've yet to see even one person who didn't like him change their mind to become a Bernie supporter. The number of his supporters is shrinking, and soon all he'll be left those who'll stick with him no matter what.

[Blue_Adept]

13. I agree, his support level will not be what it was before in terms of actual real people

I was in the camp that I knew that he and Hilary were essentially the same in terms of record and stances, it was just the details of it (and she had a lot more details, budget plans, etc to back up where she was). But I was in a "safe" state of MA and I knew that I could be a kind of mild push-protest vote towards something more embracing of the liberal side that he represents.

But once the nomination was effectively clinched, he made me regret giving him that vote with how he's acted, talked, and represented himself ever since.

And I say that having voted for one Republican in the past in MA (Bill Weld). Sanders is my biggest regret vote.

[Hortensis]

258. Sorry about that, but infinitely better than

waiting eagerly for his successor to repeat the same mistake all over again.

I started out interested in what I believe is a critically important redistribution of national wealth and destruction of our new billionaire class, so I was hoping he'd be a good candidate.

Sanders' replacement is likely to sing his same songs to appeal to those who reject mainstream Democrats and liberals, and to insist our systems are too corrupt and broken to continue. So it might help to think about where Sanders is ideologically compared to other Democrats.

He and Hillary have lots of seeming overlap within the constraints of the Democratic Party because he's voted almost always with Democrats for 20 years, which his constituents have repeatedly rewarded him for by reelecting him. And he ran for president as a Democrat just unalarmingly slightly left of most. But those both give a very limited picture.

Graphs of his voting record show him on the far left margin, farther than any other Democrat. His record defines that margin. It's also as far as anyone could be left because that's as far left any senator could be by voting on the bills proposed by Democrats. I'm tired and not clear, but basically it doesn't show if he would vote farther left if he could--because Democrats don't provide bills farther left people could vote for.

However, his pre-senate history, including writings, speeches, associations with some groups and leaders considered extremist in their times, and other behaviors, have given a bunch of indications that he's actually significantly farther left than his senate voting record is able to indicate, or than he's told his supporters.

Hillary, of course, is very well documented to be a solid liberal Democrat, left of center but always somewhere in the middle of the large bloc of mainstream Democrats that Sanders has always despised.

He claims our structure is too broken and corrupt to save, and I suspect he's serious when he says he wants a "revolution," though he downplays it as change-light. People should always get what that word means in writing, though: exactly what is to be destroyed, exactly what is to replace it?

Hillary wants to work within our existing democratic structure that's worked very well in the past to improve our systems and use them to serve the people.

Oh, and he has a very long history of never actually knowing how to achieve his plans. You know about her. Really big differences.

[Joediss]

176. Primary

I for one regret my vote for Sander during the primary. What I learned is , never vote for somebody in a democratic primary who is not a democrat......

[Corgigal]

4. Like she could trust you.

Why aren't you asking President Obama about this ?

[LisaM]

5. Very good point.

She also did speak about Russian meddling, but, just as when she started warning about right-wing conspiracies in the nineties, no one took her seriously.

I also think that Russian interference doesn't fit in with the narrative Sanders wants to push, that Hillary ran a "bad campaign" and that he would have won the general.

[bettyellen]

9. Yeah, who forgets how RWers were crossing over to vote for him in open primary states?

It’s one reason I’m not crazy about open primaries.

[deurbano]

14. I hate open primaries... and I don't like that here in CA we end up with Dems running against

Dems in the general. It's divisive. I also hate caucuses, but that's another story,

[LisaM]

19. Same in Washington. When Jim McDermott retired, two Dems went for his seat.

They were both fine, but the one I really liked (Brady Walkinshaw) lost. They never should have been running against each other at all. Waste of Democratic party resources; they could have focused more on some of the races on the East side.

[karynnj]

225. This would then lead to the party establishment determining who becomes the nominee of the party

While it would save money, it would eliminate anyone who is not considered the person whose turn it was. It would also eliminate many who did not work their way up through the party establishment. (Note - this would have even affected some people that are now considered pretty mainstream -- John Kerry won both the LT Governor nomination and his first Senate nomination over the party and media favorite. I am happy that this statesman was allowed to contested a primary that the party would have awarded to someone else.)

This actually is an argument that goes back centuries. The constitution neither specified nor recommended that Senators be elected by the people. The states had the power to determine who represented when. In addition, the states currently determine how they cast their voice in the Presidential nominations. Some picking caucuses, some primaries. Yet, that is a pretty recent phenomenon. A few years ago, my husband and I watched several hours of the 1960 Democratic convention at the Paley Museum. That year, very few states had anything like a primary or caucus and the states' votes were - for the most part - not fixed coming into the convention. In many states, their were powerful "bosses" that controlled who they would be cast for. Unlike the modern conventions, where you really DO know exactly who will emerge as the nominee, there actually was some question.

On the other side, you could argue that controlling the nomination - if expanded to the Presidential race - would prevent someone like Trump getting the nomination. On the Democratic side, we already have something that would make a win by a Trump like person harder. The superdelegates, who under normal situations would be very reluctant to overturn the decision of the delegates -- as seen in 2008 by many of them publicly declaring they would back either Obama or Clinton, if they got the majority of the regular delegates. I think the Republicans do not have these "establishment" votes and I know that their existence is very controversial on our side.

[LisaM]

229. No, there was a very spirited primary. And I don't know that Walkinshaw would have won it.

But I disliked having to vote against a Democrat in the general. You could actually argue in this case that Jayapal was more representative of a new establishment in Seattle whereas Walkinshaw spoke for an older, kinder, and more gentle Seattle. He would have been a fantastic representative with his Pacific Northwest creds, an amazing family, and a lot of smarts. I hope he keeps trying for office (I don't think he should try to primary Jayapal). There was some cutting off your nose to spite your face in that election and it really distressed me that Jayapal campaigned on Walkinshaw's being anti-woman because he was running against her (his campaign was far more positive).

I also don't have a big problem with parties vetting candidates. My family has worked with the Democratic parties on local levels for years, and believe me, the people who have trudged to weekly or monthly meetings for decades do a lot of very unappreciated work and take it seriously when they endorse or pick candidates.

[karynnj]

244. I had to research that election to understand that, like CA, it was an open primary and the GE was

the top two - both Democrats. Sorry, I completely misunderstood.

From a distance, I was always comforted in CA when the race ended up between 2 Democrats -- thinking we can't lose. In some ways, it would mean that you could vote for the one you like best with no consideration of who is the stronger candidate.

[ChiTownDenny]

17. I remember when

Robby Mook told Scott Pelley on the CBS evening news that the Clinton campaign had evidence of Russian interference. Pelley rolled his eyes. Unfortunately, it did kind of sound far fetched. Now we know.

[dbackjon]

25. when was this?

[ChiTownDenny]

263. I don't remember

exactly when during the campaign this interview took place but I do remember it was before the election.

[Bluepinky]

6. Dont you get tired of criticizing Bernie Sanders?

There are several threads on this same topic posted by the same group of people critical of Bernie Sanders. What exactly are you and the others trying to accomplish? Are you just trying to sow division on the left? I honestly don’t know why this criticism of everything Sanders says and does recurs over and over.

[pnwmom]

12. Yes, I get very tired of things he says that just makes things worse. n/t

[Bluepinky]

16. Just ignore him. There are more import things to focus on.

Like everyone else, Sanders has good and bad points. We need everyone on the left to unite and vote, Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. I didn’t like 100% of what Sanders said or did and I didn’t like 100% of what Clinton said or did, but either of them would have been an acceptable choice as President.

The 2016 primary is over, we need to concentrate on winning every Democratic election.

[dawg day]

20. But it's important to know the extent of the Russian interference....

And what Trump had to do with it, or Trump campaign officials.

Manafort especially-- that's a devious man, which is no doubt what got Trump to like him. Manafort might have very well been 'inserted' by Putin-- He volunteers to run Trump's campaign.... hmm.

Anyway, it' IS important to know if there was activity before the general campaign. It's important to know if Russians interfered with the campaigns of Cruz, Rubio, and Jeb Bush also.

At some point (perhaps 2013), Putin seems to have decided that the best way to disrupt the US was to push Trump's candidacy. That didn't start in July 2016. It probably was in force at least a year earlier. We know now that the Russians were causing trouble in the Dem primary. What about the GOP? It was the weirdest thing, how so many perfectly plausible candidates (for Republicans <G&gt just crashed in order to make way for Trump, who was really a pretty terrible candidate on so many levels, and not supported by the establishment.

So yeah, it might be uncomfortable to wonder how much of Sanders support came out of an anti-Clinton manipulation by Russians (though that does explain a lot). But it's important, and now maybe it's time to consider whether they were doing the same thing on the GOP side.
This was ugly. Really, really ugly. And Sanders could help to figure it out if he wants to do that, and he should. It doesn't hurt him to have the truth come out.

And that Devine-Manafort connection is pretty... weird.

[Bluepinky]

30. I dont think Sanders is trying to hide the truth.

I agree we need to know the truth, but how does it help to slam Bernie Sanders at every turn? If he worked with Putin to steal the election, we should know that. But I don’t think he did that. Don’t forget, he lost the Democratic primary, so if he was working with Russia, they did a piss poor job of helping him.

[emulatorloo]

254. I dont care for Sanders and Jeff Weaver echoing Trump talking points in February 2018

No one here believes Bernie worked with Putin, that is a straw man.

Weaver said Mueller’s indictment had no basis in fact. That is not true. Trump says Russians interference was Obama’s fault. Bernie says it is Hillary’s fault.

When our guys’ talking points start sounding like Trump’s talking points, people are going to push back on that.

[4now]

23. Doesn't Sanders get tired of attacking Democrats?

That seems to be his only job.

[Bluepinky]

31. Why do you care so much what he says?

If you don’t like him, ignore him. Your anger is misplaced, it shouldn’t be focused on an Independent who consistently caucuses with the Democrats and is a very outspoken Progressive.

Channel your anger toward the Republicans in power.

[4now]

38. I think that Sanders should channel his anger toward the Republicans

and stop attacking Democrats.

[Bluepinky]

39. What exactly did he say that was an attack on Democrats?

[4now]

45. You should do your own research

Maybe you will learn something that you claim not to know now.

[Bluepinky]

55. Cant come up with what he said to attack Democrats, huh?

Maybe you should support your unsubstantiated statements with actual facts.

[4now]

58. This is the kind of troll like behavour

That is common among his low post count supporters.

[Bluepinky]

61. Okay.

[hueymahl]

83. Project much??

Refusing to provide a source for your claims is VERY troll like.

[NurseJackie]

219. The goading you sidestepped was actually a trap...

... good for you in seeing it for exactly what it was.

[Jake Stern]

136. "Do your own research" is the type of bullshit right wing trolls say when confronted

YOU make the claim, YOU bear the burden of proof.

[ehrnst]

84. Did you hear what he said the day after the election?

I guess not.

[ehrnst]

175. Blaming Hillary for not stopping the Russian Bots that promoted him sure isn't a compliment.(nt)

[Tom Rinaldo]

177. What planet are you living on? Sanders attacks Republicans ALL of the time

The complaint I am used to seeing about him here is that he is a grand stander with all his anti-Trump proclamations. He's done a number of town halls on CNN debating Republicans. His twitter feed is full of attacks on Trump and Congressional Republicans etc.

Having said that I agree that Sanders is off base in his current comments about taking any responsibility for not doing more to cooperate with the Clinton campaign against the Russian bots. He was mistaken to not have done more at the time and his current comments about it are highly defensive and counter productive. The man is not perfect by far, but it is highly misleading to pretend that he spends most of his efforts now attacking Democrats in general or Hillary specifically.

[Bluepinky]

186. Great response!

[Joediss]

178. Agree

That's what angry me so much about Sander. He loves to run the democratic down...

[ehrnst]

85. Are we to ignore any Mueller revelations that concern Bernie? (nt)

[leftynyc]

160. Because we ALLOWED him to use

our party for his own purposes. That's never going to happen again.

[NurseJackie]

223. Yes we did. No we won't.

PS: Sarandon and Stein can FUCK OFF!

[leftynyc]

242. Hell yes

I even have to turn the channel when I hear saradon's voice on the tylenol commercial.

[pnwmom]

287. Because he is still working, publicly, to divide the party. n/t

[nocalflea]

33. I think your onto something.

[Sophia4]

86. Sanders campaigned for Hillary after the Democratic convention.

Sanders supporters on the internet were upset that he did that.

Why all the kicking at Sanders?

It just serves to offend and drive away Democrats who supported Sanders in the primaries but who are strong Democrats. It makes DU look bad. It has been well over a year since the Democratic primary.

Why this obsession with Sanders?

[Bluepinky]

90. Yes I know, why are they obsessed with Sanders?

It’s really weird.

[ehrnst]

107. Ask Mueller. He's the one that found the information. And Bernie blames Hillary

as per the article.

It's his own words that are the topic here. He made the statement, so discussing it is hardly "obsessing."

Why should we ignore what he says? Why should taking what he said to the media at face value be somehow off limits?

[Bluepinky]

121. You are criticizing a Congressman who caucuses with the Democrats.

I thought we aren’t supposed to do that on DU.

You and others consistently criticize Sanders, what gives?

[lapucelle]

126. BS is a senator. N/T

[Bluepinky]

134. Yes, Congress consists of both the Senate and House of Representatives.

And Bernie Sanders, as a US Senator, is a Congressman (as is a member of the US House of Representatives).

[mcar]

167. Did you know there are 2 branches of Congress?

And Bernie Sanders, as a US Senator, is a Congressman (as is a member of the US House of Representatives).

Umm, no, he's not. He is a Senator, thus he cannot be a Congressman. It's 2 different things.

[Bluepinky]

184. According to Wikipedia, Congress includes both the Senate and House of Representatives.

[mcar]

194. Yes!

So there are senators in the senate and Congress people in the house.

[NurseJackie]

210. Well now... that was fun! (Laughing and shaking my head...

... it's all rather amazing.)

[mcar]

226. Right?

[George II]

241. Since you're picking nits, there are two Houses of Congress - the Senate and the House of....

....REPRESENTATIVES!

Members of the Senate are Senators
Members of the House of Representatives are REPRESENTATIVES, not "Congressmen".

Why are you so insistent on this error of yours?

[NurseJackie]

246. "Why are you so insistent on this error of yours?"

Why are you so insistent on this error of yours?

Why indeed? Pride? Anger? I guess they hole that was dug is now too deep to crawl out of.

[brooklynite]

249. "Congressman" (or "-woman" or "-person") is an accepted term for a member of the HOR

congressman (noun)

Definition of congressman
: a member of a congress; especially : a member of the U.S. House of Representatives

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/congressman

[George II]

250. Yes, but it's not generally an accepted use for a Senator. Congressman and Representative....

....have become interchangeable, however Senator and Congressman are not.

[mcar]

253. I really want to see the link for this bit of civics

that I somehow missed.

[lapucelle]

181. Those who serve in the House are called congressmen / congresswomen.

Sanders, who established his 26 year career as a national politician back in 1992, was a congressmen from that year until 2013 when he assumed the office of senator.

[Bluepinky]

185. According to Wikipedia, Senators are usually referred to as Senators and not Congressmen

to distinguish them from members of the House of Representatives, who can be referred to as Representative or Congressman. But it’s technically not wrong to call a member of the Senate a Congressman.

[lapucelle]

187. From now on I will refer to the senator as congressman. N/T

[Bluepinky]

188. You can do what you want. To avoid confusion, its probably better to call him Senator.

You want me to admit I’m wrong, so I’ll say he should be referred to as Senator Sanders rather than Congressman.

[NurseJackie]

212. Wheeeee!

[lapucelle]

232. If I were Senator EW or Senator BS,

I would not want to be referred to as Congresswoman EW or Congressman BS.

[Me.]

234. From Whom Does He Collect A Paycheck?

The House or the Senate? Personally, I'd rather the Senate paycheck.

[Jake Stern]

137. Because he doesn't have the magic "D" behind his name, you see

They're mad that Independent Senator Bernie Sanders criticizes Dems. If he had the magic 'D" he could spend countless hours talking major smack about his fellow Dems with impunity like the senior senator from a small state between Virginia and Kentucky.

[Wwcd]

142. All those Magic D's voted for Russian Sanctions. Magnitsky.

He's not a Democrat in more ways than the "magic letter".

Mueller's about to show us how much.

[ehrnst]

162. Indeed. (nt)

[NurseJackie]

215. About that last point you made, I have no doubts.

About that first point you made, I must confess that I cannot find any rational reason that would serve just cause for me to express any disagreement with your astute observation.

[Wwcd]

240. Likewise NJ ☺

🍃

[ehrnst]

163. Actually, he's a senator, and no, there's no rule against criticism

I understand that many believe that any disagreement with the Senator is an indication of corruption, here on DU, there is a distinction made between criticism and bashing politicians.

I suggest you learn that difference asap.

[Bluepinky]

189. According to Wikipedia, Congress includes both the Senate and House of Representatives.

[ehrnst]

192. And you also need to learn the difference between criticism, or discussing their words

and Bashing.

Do you need a link?

[Bluepinky]

193. Me thinks you protest too much.

I see relentless criticism and bashing of Senator Sanders, and I don’t understand why. When he attacks Trump or other Republicans, which he frequently does, the anti-Bernie group doesn’t say a word of support. But if he says anything mildly critical of any Democrat, you’re all over him in a heartbeat, as though he’s evil incarnate.
If you don’t like him, why not ignore him? There are several threads by the anti-Bernie crowd attacking him on the same interview.

[Eliot Rosewater]

198. Reporting the facts about Bernie Sanders, such as he released a fraction of

the tax returns most other candidates release, or that he voted AGAINST Russian sanctions, is not bashing him or criticizing him, it is merely reporting the facts.

These facts SHOULD cause people to at LEAST wonder why he does these things and then most recently his blaming Hillary about Russia or the election, I mean for goodness SAKE!

If someone turned out not to be who you thought they were, would you want to know or would you be unable to admit they are not who you want them to be?

[Bradical79]

220. This post was reported on and I made a mistake

I chose it clearly breaks the rule, but meant to choose it clearly doesn't break the rule. If it gets hidden, use my post here to dispute the hide.

[ehrnst]

230. I think you are very defensive on the issue and see malice everywhere

it isn't. Protesting too much? Look in the mirror....

And I recall several threads running last month on a recently reported on incident in the 2008 campaign, so it's not like there's a limit. Did you take those posters to task as well? I sincerely doubt it.

Look, if you can't tolerate anything but praise for Senator Sanders, I recommend that you take your own advice and ignore the threads.

Why not put all those you've identified as being in the "anti-bernie group" you say exists on "ignore?"

This is politics, not high tea. I think Bernie, being a longtime career politician knows that criticism is part of the game. Being on the national stage brings with it a whole lot more scrutiny. Vermont is very small and homogenous, and doesn't have the same diversity as populations elsewhere, so when one tries to expand one's appeal to a population that isn't 98.5% white and highly rural, one is going to encounter less of a uniform approval of whatever one is saying.

If Bernie and his fans expect the same sort of reception outside Vermont than inside, then that's really not realistic. And it doesn't mean he's being treated unfairly or worse - he's just encountering a less predictable, wider audience. Senators of much more diverse populations are used to the fact that not everyone will just agree on what the most pressing issues are, and what they consider likeable.

[Bluepinky]

237. You didnt answer the question.

I really want to know why you don’t report anything positive about Sanders, only the negative. He has made many valid criticisms of Trump and the Republicans in power. I think he’s a powerful speaker, and that nobody talks about income inequality and economic issues like he does.

Why should I have to ignore rhetoric I believe is divisive?

[Hortensis]

239. Why? Summary for me: Trump, senate, house, Gorsuch,

enormous hurts to many people -- including loss of healthcare and enormous shift of our wealth and power to the new kleptocrat class he helped create, the very issues he claimed to care about, and above all our newly gravely endangered future.

Sanders is not only mud to me for any future elections, but I believe he will have fully earned everything historians conclude about his role in this era.

What the Mueller investigation may or may not contribute to those accounts, whether he was 100% a passive beneficiary or an active participant in some way in Russia's use of him, remains to be seen.

The possibility that he played a "useful idiot" role for Russia has been taken off the table by Sanders himself now that he's admitted that he knew they were using him to throw our government to the Republicans.

But just that is damning. He had one honorable choice: to declare what was happening and to unite solidly with the Democratic Party, including Hillary, to defeat the enemy attack. Instead he betrayed his duty to his nation, his duty as a U.S. senator, and his duty to those who believed in and trusted him.

[Bluepinky]

243. To be fair, Obama, Clinton and Sanders knew Russia was involved in the election in 2016.

I find it preposterous that some Democrats actually believe that Sanders, one of our strongest allies who consistently caucuses with Democrats, was assisting Russia to help Trump win the election.

It’s more likely that Russia was helping Sanders in order to sow discord in the Democratic Party (which it did) and because they disliked Hillary Clinton so much. Also, they probably believed Clinton was a stronger candidate than Sanders, and they wanted to weaken her.

[Hortensis]

247. "Fair" when one hoped to benefit and the others were

intended victims of this attack by an enemy nation intending to destroy us. Strange notion of fair.

Bluepinky, you were betrayed. Unless, of course, you approved the Republicans' plan to destroy all progressive legislation of the 20th century and to institutionalize corruption in our government to serve a few. Then, of course, you'd be getting what you wanted from Sanders' candidacy.

[emulatorloo]

255. STRAWMAN. No one here believes Sanders assisted Russia.

This thread is about both Sanders and Weaver echoing Trump’s talking points about Russian interference (Obama’s Fault) and the Mueller indictment of those Russian Trolls (Weaver says there is no factual basis to Mueller indictment.

[Demsrule86]

266. To blame the Russian thing on Hillary is not mildly critical...it is huge and gives Trump a pass.

[mcar]

195. You keep saying that but don't seem to understand it

Senators are in the senate; congressmen/women are in the house.

[Bluepinky]

196. My source is Wikipedia.

[mcar]

197. Ok

[R B Garr]

147. Sanders comments are recent, contradictory, and

dismissive. Why would he kick at Hillary?

Your concern is with some Sanders supporters upset that he campaigned for Hillary. She was our nominee, so why wouldn’t he be supporting her? Why is it important to mention that his supporters were upset at him because he campaigned for her. Wasn’t Hillary’s victory the goal??

Isn’t there some concern for people who voted for Hillary and were cheated out of their choice by the Russian interference? Millions more people voted for Hillary.

This is about the ongoing Mueller investigation, lots more to come.

[Maven]

40. Nope. Not when he deserves it. Which is often, and due to his own conduct.

Next question?

[Bluepinky]

43. What did he say, exactly, that was so bad?

You know the primary is over and he didn’t win it, right?

[Maven]

46. I think you know what he said.

Willfully ignoring the obvious and asking for more proof is a dishonest tactic that Republicans and Russians use. Not playing that game, sorry.

[Bluepinky]

52. Thats a lame response.

You said he’s attacking Democrats but couldn’t state what he said.

[ehrnst]

102. Google his remark the day after the election.(nt)

[Bluepinky]

118. Oh, you are talking about 2016, I thought this thread is about current events.

Why keep rehashing the past? The primary is over, and you shouldn’t try to alienate Sanders supporters. Don’t you remember Hillary’s campaign slogan “Stronger Together”?

[R B Garr]

151. Mueller is talking about 2016. Specifically, he issued indictments

that named Bernie and Trump’s campaign for Russian help to damage her. It is all over the news. The current news is about who is going to jail, who lied, who knew what. Current news.

[ehrnst]

164. I suggest looking at the content of the article in the OP, if you haven't

That would make things a bit clearer for you. Sanders is talking about events in 2016.

You're welcome.

And you asked when Sanders trashed the Democrats, and I pointed to an example that in 2016, since you didn't specify your parameters on the timeline of his comments. Your moving the goalpost after the fact was noted, BTW.

If discussing what Sanders has said publicly "alienates" his supporters, they must not have much faith in his staying power. This is politics, and Bernie is a longtime, career politician.

If discussion of Bernie that does not praise him or agree with his statements "alienates" you, perhaps JPR would be a better fit for you. This is Democratic Underground.

[Maven]

131. Whats lame is your intellectual dishonesty.

Goodbye.

[Eliot Rosewater]

199. And you win the internets for today. I am losing patience with having to tiptoe around

stuff.

[pnwmom]

106. From the link in the OP:

Sanders responded that the "real question to be asked" was why didn't the Clinton campaign do something.

"They had more information about this than we did. And at this point we were working with them,” Sanders said. “We knew what we knew, when we knew it. And that’s about all I can say."

This is what Sanders said that made no sense. Hillary couldn't possibly no more than Bernie did about what Bernie's campaign was seeing on their servers and campaign sites.

[ehrnst]

76. His own words. (nt)

[RandySF]

116. I get tired of Bernie's shots at Hillary after changing his registration back to "Independent"

[Eliot Rosewater]

200. What I would give to be able to show support on this website ONLY for registered

Democrats

[mcar]

166. How is quoting his own words criticizing?

[NurseJackie]

222. I know, right?!! Such convolutions! Amazing.

[mcar]

228. Stop criticizing Bernie by using his own words against him!!11

[NurseJackie]

236. One's recorded words and writings reveal much about intent, motivation and character...

... and that's why I always look, listen and read so that I can get a complete picture.

And while we're on the subject, I think it's worth mentioning that as a general rule, I also have found that I can learn a lot about a politician by what they DON'T say (or what they avoid saying). This can be just as revealing as the the scripted message and talking points.

Just a general observation.






PS: The NRA can FUCK OFF!

[mcar]

238. Great points, Jackie!

Puts me in mind of certain politicians who were accused by some of wanting or planning to do bad things (e.g. start wars, destroy Social Security) based on those person's interpretation of what the pol said, not what he/she actually said.

[uponit7771]

271. +1

[QC]

170. No. n/t

[asiliveandbreathe]

7. Prez Obama TOLD mcturtle - mcturtle said nyet - sanders..take a hike!!!!eom

[dalton99a]

8. "Why didn't she do something?... Lock her up!"

[Lil Missy]

10. Oh, STFU.

[Paladin]

15. Blow it out your ass, Bernie. (nt)

[The Wizard]

18. This entire thread is bullshit

fomented by those who bought into the Russian propaganda. Stop re litigating the 2016 primary. You're all pissing into the wind. Go ahead and flame me. I really don't give a shit. In fact I'd appreciate it if you all put me on full ignore and save me the trouble.

[pnwmom]

22. This has to do with a current interview, TODAY, by a man who is positioning himself

to run in 2020. It's not about re-litigating the primary.

Why don't you put all of us on full ignore?

[karynnj]

32. No, it is a warped interpretation of the interview

He said that he personally was out campaigning for Hillary when those attacks happened. He said his aide gave the MUCH larger Clinton campaign a heads up on what they were seeing. (Note it is the interviewer who says "Russian" -- not Sanders.)

I know that the Sanders supporters on some sites were hard at work countering the lies and defending Clinton. (I know because several young relatives of mine worked together to hone some pretty terrific defenses of Clinton).

Please tell me what you think Sanders, who was out making the case for Hillary, should have been able to do?

[Maven]

41. When will Bernie acknowledge that Russian bots capitalized on his campaign

and the anti-Clinton sentiment he fomented for far too long, in order to divide Democrats and suppress the Democratic vote?

When will he take responsibility for the role that he played in 2016?

Or is taking responsibility only HRC's job?

[SunSeeker]

44. Well, since you asked, he could have given Hillary his email list.

And he could have sent an email blast to his supporters that the Wikileaks email leaks were stolen emails doctored by the Trump campaign and/or Russia and they should disregard them.

Maybe he could have sent an email blast to all his supporters saying he gave his email list to Hillary because he trusts her, and believes her when she says Podesta/the DNC was hacked by Russia, and that his supporters should respond to Hillary's future emails with donations and offers to volunteer.

Just a few thoughts.

[comradebillyboy]

152. Those are the things any Democrat would do as a courtesy to any other Democrat.

[Eliot Rosewater]

202. There is a specific reason he purposely did NOT do any of that, but until the rules

around here change, I dont dare discuss it.

[ehrnst]

112. He blames Hillary for not stopping bots that were promoting him

Please tell me what you think Hillary, who was not responsible for what was being allowed on Sanders's FB pages should have been able to do.

What he knew, and when he knew about it seems to be in flux from interview to interview. If he knew, then why didn't he say anything about what was happening on his FB pages?

That would have been the most effective way to have neutralized it.

[GusBob]

29. I'm with you man

It's time to bury the hatchets

Seems to me Putin, an experienced and deadly KGB agent, one of the richest and most powerful men in the world got away with the crime of the century. A crime that was under detected, under prevented, and under reported. If we keep bickering it will go unpunished

He punked lot of people, Obama, Clinton, Sanders, the US Gov't, the media, Facebook, twitter, paypal

[ehrnst]

78. You mean we can discuss any Mueller revelations but those involving Senator Sanders?

Why?

[4now]

21. I used to respect Sen. Sanders

but now he is just sounding like trump.

[Bluepinky]

47. Sanders is definitely NOT sounding Trump-like.

Sanders and Clinton are both anti-Trump.

[4now]

53. They both spend a lot of time attacking Democrats.

[Eliot Rosewater]

204. Go back and listen to the weekly show with Hartmann, I swear they attacked

democrats almost as much as republicans on those weekly shows.

[Honeycombe8]

24. She said Trump was a Russian Puppet. Trump's response, "No puppet. No puppet. YOU'RE the puppet."

LOL. That was pretty bold of her to say that. His response was so lame.

[stevenleser]

26. The people buying the propaganda wouldn't have listened to her. Look at JPR

they bought into the nonsense hook line and sinker. They bought into it so much they are denying the idea of Russian collusion with Trump entirely or at least saying it didn't affect the election.

[emulatorloo]

256. Same with Reddit

[karynnj]

28. Your version is quite biased and mainly reflects your hatred of Sanders

You ignore that Sanders WAS out speaking to his base making a case for Hillary. He did have a member of his staff speak to Clinton's campaign about strange things they were seeing on pro-Sanders sites. Note that it is Jane Lindholm who refers to Russians. Sanders does not say that they knew it was Russians. (Note - pro sanders sites do NOT mean site controlled by Sanders. ) It was good that his people noticed what was happening and gave Clinton a heads up.

You dispute that Hillary likely knew more. To me, her much larger campaign very likely DID know more about anything happening in the general election. At that point, there was no Sanders campaign. He essentially had a Senator's staff and any volunteers that were still there. Not to mention, it is obvious that Clinton had MUCH stronger connections to Obama and he had the entire intelligence community behind them. As to the Russian interference, the first information on that was likely via an intelligence briefing that Trump and Clinton got as nominees. That DID lead to Clinton speaking of that in the debates.

Sanders likely thought that the attacks were from the Republicans. Consider that people on the left were pushed to vote for Nader in 2000, Nader or the Green candidate in 2004 and the green candidate in 2008 and 2012. I would bet that they were more likely to blame a RW attack than the Russians - even as we all learned that there were Russian links to the DNC and Podesta hackings.

[nocalflea]

37. And everything is Hillary's fault.

How does Bernie know what actions Hillary did or didn't take ?

Hillary vs. the resources of the Russian govt. and everything is her fucking fault.

[karynnj]

51. Where did I say that??? It is NEVER ALL the candidate's fault. Hillary, like all candidates had

both strengths and weaknesses. The only way that Bernie would have known what Clinton did is if she or her campaign told him.

Personally, I suspect the normal RW echo chamber of talk radio and Fox pushing every negative story they could find on Clinton without regard to truth had at least as much impact as pushing the stories on social media. It's impossible to assess how much each effort hurt, but it might be that the greatest Russian impact is the one we all knew of by September. The hacking of the DNC and Podesta -- giving the RW echo chamber a wealth of new stories to exploit.

By the way, I was here in 2005 and 2006, and the some people were STRONGLY against John Kerry considering running again because "he did not fight back". The HRC supporters in particular also argued that only the Clintons could successfully fight the right wing and HRC was already positively defined - so there was no risk she could be defined by others first. Though I HATED those comments, I believed then and now that they were sincere. I thought they were unfair -- especially as I felt that others did not use all the proof he had to support him (especially Edwards who promised the campaign to do so and then didn't.)

In 2016, Clinton DID get a HUGE amount of Democratic support in the general election - ranging from Bernie to the Obamas. I don't know if a different candidate would have been harder for Trump. the Republicans, and the Russians to negatively frame. Most would need to very quickly define themselves.

[ehrnst]

117. Bernies' campaign analyst Mattes stated that he knew before the General.

Bernie also said that Mueller's findings about the Russian bots "weren't a surprise."

And Bernie faults Hillary for not dealing with the bots.

Did you read the articles?

[DeeDeeNY]

57. You make a lot of sense

But you can't reason with people whose minds are closed. Many on this site have become irrational in their anti-Bernie sentiments.

[comradebillyboy]

153. I think those sentiments are quite rational.

[Eliot Rosewater]

205. You are accusing everyone here who questions the actions of Bernie of being "irrational?"

I dont like that one bit.

[David__77]

59. I doubt it will be too impactful one way or the other.

...

[ehrnst]

80. So we should ignore any revelations from Mueller about Bernie, and Bernie's comments on them?

Why?

[karynnj]

89. No, but they should not be distorted

Mueller said that the Russians were pretty much against Hillary and for anyone against her. Sanders ran his campaign on his issues. It is unfair to blame him for things done by the Russians.

[ehrnst]

101. But it's fine that Bernie is blaming Hillary, and we should ignore what else he said

that raises some questions?

Mueller said that the Russians were "supporting Bernie and Trump." The two names were quoted directly in the findings, not just "oppose Hillary." Bernie has stated that "it wasn't a surprise" and also that "he had no idea that Russian bots were promoting him."

Is it "unfair" to take what he and his spokespeople say at face value, especially when it's confusing?

I don't see anyone "blaming" Bernie for what Russia did, but questions about what he knew and when he knew about it are understandable in light of him not saying anything about it to discourage it from being shared from his FB pages during the general.

We discuss the Mueller findings here on DU when they come out. We discuss reactions by those who are in the findings. We don't suddenly ignore it when it turns out to involve Senator Sanders.

[emulatorloo]

259. Folks arent blaming him for the actions of the Russians. Instead criticizing his and Weavers words

Last edited Fri Feb 23, 2018, 09:22 AM - Edit history (1)

Bernie’s hot take that Hillary should have stopped Russian interference. Weaver’s nonsense that Mueller’s indictment of the trolls is not based on fact.

Bernie primary supporter, the most charitable way I can characterize this is as a huge gaffe. It feeds into Trump’s narrative. When our guys’ talking points on the Russian investigation start echoing Trump’s talking points we have a problem.


—————————————-

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/21/bernie-sanders-trump-russia-interference-420528

“Bernie Sanders on Wednesday blamed Hillary Clinton for not doing more to stop the Russian attack on the last presidential election. Then his 2016 campaign manager, in an interview with POLITICO, said he’s seen no evidence to support special counsel Robert Mueller's assertionin an indictment last week that the Russian operation had backed Sanders' campaign.

The remarks showed Sanders, running for a third term and currently considered a front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2020, deeply defensive in response to questions posed to him about what was laid out in the indictment. He attempted to thread a response that blasts Donald Trump for refusing to acknowledge that Russians helped his campaign — but then holds himself harmless for a nearly identical denial.

In doing so, Sanders and his former campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, presented a series of self-serving statements that were not accurate, and that track with efforts by Trump and his supporters to undermine the credibility of the Mueller probe.

“The real question to be asked is what was the Clinton campaign [doing about Russian interference]? They had more information about this than we did,” Sanders said in the interview with Vermont Public Radio.

[Cha]

260. "Gaffe" or Deflection?

[emulatorloo]

261. All I can say for sure is they both stepped in deep shit with these statements

[Cha]

262. I know.. time will tell. All I can say

is "good".. they deserve it.

[R B Garr]

265. They sure did step in it deep. They really revealed how

they use Hillary and invoke her name as pure political cryptonite just to pander. Facts and proof be damned. Now they had to backtrack really fast because they were up against the Mueller indictments and realized they could not get away with it. Slamming the Mueller indictments is also Trump’s angle, as we’ve seen.

This was a very serious reveal of their strategies they have used for years against Hillary. Sanders was never accountable, but we all saw it. His core base wants to see the attacks on Hillary continue, but now evidence is actually exposing more about his strategy. They are toast.

[Chemisse]

34. He's just being defensive, knowing the Russians favored him to win over Clinton.

And facing the probability that part of his rise in popularity was via Russian promotion.

It understandably hurts his ego. It also makes him slightly responsible for Trump's electoral win. That must be a ghastly feeling. So he throws it all at Hillary instead.

A better man would take it in the chin, but Bernie is not as perfect and many thought him to be.

[Bluepinky]

50. If the Russians favored him to win, he would have won.

The fact that he didn’t win is because he didn’t collude with Russia to steal the win. You know that Sanders lost the primary, right?

[4now]

56. His only job was to attack the Democrat party nominee

from the left.
He knew that he couldn't win.

[Bluepinky]

60. I see, Sanders was a Russian plant.

It must have been why he was one of the few to vote against the Iraq invasion during Bush’s presidency.

I can see why Sanders chooses to remain an Independent.

[4now]

65. You said it. Not me

[Wwcd]

88. Admission is the 1st step.

[ehrnst]

82. That would make him one of the non-Democrats who voted against Russian Sanctions.(nt)

[melman]

62. " Democrat party"

Interesting. Some might even say revealing.

[4now]

64. I am sorry that my low vision offends you

[Maven]

132. No one is talking about the goddamn primary.

So why do you keep bringing it up?

[stevenleser]

135. There is no evidence for your assertion. One could equally say the only reason he got close

was because of their help.

[Chemisse]

138. Of course he didn't collude with Russia.

His purpose was not so much to win, but to divide the party and hurt Clinton's chances in the general.

On edit - I mean his purpose in the minds of the Russians; I don't think he did this intentionally.

[Bluepinky]

141. And whos dividing the party now?

If you don’t like him, ignore him. Why give him all this attention? And you’re alienating his progressive supporters.

[Chemisse]

143. Who said I don't like him?

I liked him in the primary and I voted for him. As time went on, I became worried about the division in the Dem Party. People didn't just support him; they were devoted to him. Endorsing a candidate should not be like joining a religion. That hurt us in the general election.

I do like Bernie; I have for many years. But I really hope he stays away from presidential politics in 2020.

[Bluepinky]

145. I agree on that.

I think we need new candidates for the next election, no Hillary and no Bernie.

[ehrnst]

172. "Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump, we support them)"

Yes, the Russians favored him, and wanted him to win.

“I created all these pictures and posts, and the Americans believed that it was written by their people,” one of the Russians, Irina Viktorovna Kaverzina, wrote as the operation was being unmasked.

Their tasks included undermining Mrs. Clinton by supporting her Democratic primary campaign rival, Bernie Sanders, prosecutors said. Those instructions were detailed in internal documents: “Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump — we support them).” Mr. Mueller identified 13 digital advertisements paid for by the Russian operation. All of them attacked Mrs. Clinton or promoted Mr. Trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/us/politics/russians-indicted-mueller-election-interference.html

[comradebillyboy]

154. Spot on!

[SunSeeker]

36. Bernie needs to answer the interviewer's question.

"If you and your campaign knew there was Russian meddling and it was trying to sow division, why not take that directly to your supporters? radio host Jane Lindholm asked. . . .

His "answer" consisted of deflection by blaming the victim.

[Maven]

49. Bernie never takes responsibility for anything, because he is a fraud and weak leader.

Period.

[lapucelle]

130. Why not take it directly to the FEC and the FBI? N/T

[Exotica]

42. Bernie is a disaster waiting to fuck us in 2020

Last edited Thu Feb 22, 2018, 12:32 AM - Edit history (1)

I cannot see how any legit Democratic Party supporter would think he is the way to steer in 2020.

he is DOOM and a quick ticket to Trump 2.0

[Chemisse]

140. That is a big concern of mine.

I welcome a good mix of candidates in the 2020 primary. What I don't welcome is a ready-to-go cult-like following for any one of them.

[yardwork]

275. Sanders will never be the Democratic nominee.

He has far less support now than before. For good reason.

[Maven]

48. He better not even try it in 2020.

Because I will do everything I can to sink his spoiler campaign before it's even got off the ground. And so will many, many more.

[leftynyc]

161. I'll be right beside you

No way I'm letting him use our party again for his own purposes. Not a chance.

[Sophia4]

54. You don't think Obama told Hillary's campaign?

Didn't Obama know?

I'm asking. I don't know all the facts but I was under the impression that Obama knew about this. If he knew, why didn't he tell Hillary and the world?

I'm a huge Obama supporter but I don't understand what happened here.

[LSFL]

71. the day the news of Russian meddling broke

Was the same day the pussy grabbing tape emerged I think.. It was lost in the noise. Obama did expel diplomats and levy sanctions. That is the proper way to start handling it. Of course Obama did not have enough time to learn the extent of the interference and Trump won't follow up.....

[R B Garr]

111. Do you have any evidence that Bernies supporters

would have believed it if it didn’t come from Bernie himself? That was the whole problem. Only certain narratives that he initiated were accepted.

It’s still happening—his core base is becoming disillusioned because Bernie is finally having to become vocal about what Russia did. Imagine if those facts had come from Obama and/or especially Hillary. She would have been excoriated...again.

I’m a huge Obama supporter, too.

[Wwcd]

66. He did too know! He was asked on an interview and said it right there.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-emails-russian-hackers-kremlin-democratic-639292%3famp=1

BERNIE SANDERS SAYS 'IT'S NO GREAT SECRET' RUSSIA WAS TRYING TO DIVIDE DEMOCRATS AGAINST HILLARY

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/google-says-russians-bought-100k-in-ads-for-trump-bernie-sanders-report/article/2636905

Google says Russians bought $100K in ads for Trump, Bernie Sanders: Report
by Anna Giaritelli | Oct 9, 2017

Just under $100,000 of ads were purchased through Google, though the company has yet to figure out if trolls or Russian officials made the buys.
SNIP
All of the ads advocated for President Trump; Sen. Bernie Sanders, who ran as a Democratic candidate; and Green Party candidate Jill Stein. Hillary Clinton was not supported by the ads.

https://i.imgur.com/7zL5tgS_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

----
Robert Mueller will have the final word on this subject. And no matter how you try to change the narrative of words previously spoken, the truth WILL be there for all to see.

He knew, yet never warned anyone of Russia influencing our election?
Why not?

[emulatorloo]

257. Thanks for the link, I remember that article.

I get tired of the gaslighting.

[DinahMoeHum]

67. Oh dear. Methinks Bernie just done laid a big one.

Last edited Wed Feb 21, 2018, 09:58 PM - Edit history (1)

[Wwcd]

68. Lets ask Snopes in a day or so.

Hmmm...

[Wwcd]

79. Exactly. Its a little too late to walk back your words Mr Sanders.

Mueller already knows it all.
Maybe best to not dig that hole any deeper.

[Cha]

69. Politico - Bernie mimics Trump defense on Russian interference

Bernie Sanders on Wednesday blamed Hillary Clinton for not doing more to stop the Russian attack on the last presidential election. Then his 2016 campaign manager, in an interview with POLITICO, said he’s seen no evidence to support Special Counsel Bob Mueller's assertion in an indictment last week that the Russian operation had backed Sanders'

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210269740

BS wants to take the subject off him and right on to Hillary. How's he doing?



https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10263076

[Wwcd]

94. She did warn us. The Media & every candidate ignored her.

Including Bernie Sanders.

He said, "Of course we knew".
He said he ran as a Dem "for Money & Media".
Those are his OWN words.

We know why he was in the race. He told us.

Hillary also told us about Russia's influence. A foreign adversary influencing the US election.

Sanders knew & did nothing to warn people.
THAT is what Mueller knows about the Sanders campaign.
Sanders did nothing.

[Cha]

113. And, he's trying to blame it on Hillary..

when is he going to take any responsibility?

"A former Clinton campaign staffer said it was nonsense that Sanders' campaign had reached out to Clinton's about potential Russian interference. "No one from the Sanders campaign ever contacted us about this”—not in September, and not in “April and May.” Sanders said in the radio interview that he noticed "lots of strange things" during those months in 2016".

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210270244

And, YES... I believe Hillary's staffer over BS.

[Wwcd]

122. He knew. Yet he kept quiet about Russia, a foreign adversary's influence. Why?

Because it benefitted him.
"Money & Mediia", he said.

His silence is exactly why Mueller named him along with Trump in his formal findings last week.

Now Sanders comes out with a statement directly contradicting his own words?
Wtf.

Mueller didn't just drop his name for no reason. That is not how Mueller does business. He is looking directly at everyone who knew about Russian influence & raised no alarms nor spoke out about it.

THAT is what this sudden denial by Sanders today is about.
Trying to walk back his own involvment.
It doesn't matter anymore Bernie, Mueller already has questions for you as to your seeming complicity in keeping silent in 2016.

Lets see,.. who else continually shifts the blame of their own failure onto Hillary Clinton?

We all know what this is about.
Hillary did warn us, no one listened to her.
Sanders knew & kept quiet.

Mueller looks for complicity & that is Bernie Sanders problem to own up to.

[iluvtennis]

70. No offense to anyone here, but Bernie needs to STFU. How does he know what Hillary's campaign

knew. Enuf.

[ancianita]

72. I supported him but couldn't agree more with this sentiment. Shoulda-woulda-coulda is weak.

[ehrnst]

75. I guess this isn't going away.

More news orgs reporting on it.

[Wwcd]

97. Good, truth should be told. Mueller is rightly looking at everyone who knew & did nothing.

Oddly it was Hillary Clinton who did tell us. And she was ignored.

Guess that's why she's the one sipping tea while all the rest are being question.

She will be vindicated of every damning lie told by everyone who joined the 2016 game for Money & Media & Position at the cost of our country.

[LonePirate]

77. So a man is blaming a woman for a problem he should have taken ownership of immediately?

[relayerbob]

81. I know the campaign was informed of trolls and Russians contaminating his followers

I know that because I sent numerous emails talking about the origins of the founders of the Bernie or busters, as well as the numerous false reports going around based on rt . com and other similar Russian sites. Not once, not twice, but at least five times, with links and documentation. They finally just dumped me from their lists after my giving them way too much money (significantly more than "$27&quot and time. They ignored it because they knew it was doing damage to Clinton and that's all they cared about. One of the biggest political disappointments of my 60 years, was seeing a promising campaign throw itself over the cliff

[pnwmom]

100. Thanks for trying, relayerbob! n/t

[mr_lebowski]

87. Can we remember WHO THE ENEMY IS, HOW THEY OPERATE, AND STOP FALLING FOR THIS BULLSHIT ...

From fucking now on?

Jesus, people.

This dissension ... is EXACTLY the 'point'.

You, me, Hill, and Bern ... we are SO MUCH CLOSER to ALL being on the same side than any of the aforementioned are with the GOP, Trump, Putin, Troll Farms, Alex Jones, Faux, O'Keefe ... it's RIDICULOUS.

This headline is even bullshit on top of it. Thanks, The Hill.

Not directed at anyone in particular, but those of you being dumb, please stop.

[ehrnst]

92. Are you calling Sanders own words the enemy? Or Mueller?

I recall a whole lot of people saying that we needed to pay attention if Hillary was being investigated. Much concern was expressed.

Sanders responded to the news of the Mueller investigation, and his response is being reported, and analyzed.

Do we ignore it because he's Bernie?

[DonaldsRump]

95. Spot on.

I have my doubts about Bernie mouthing off against Hillary. Bernie, the Russians meddled in the elections, not Hillary, so I can't understand why in holy hell you are raising this.

That being said, sowing seeds of dissension is exactly what the Russians did in 2016.

DO NOT FALL FOR IT IN 2018.

[pnwmom]

98. Bernie is making moves to run again. I'm not going to ignore what he says and does. And what

he has been saying lately is too close to what Trump has been saying.

Russian meddling was real and significant, even if Bernie claims not to have noticed it.

[pnwmom]

96. I wouldn't care about Bernie if he weren't making moves to run again in 2020.

But as long as it appears he's running, I'm not going to ignore him and what he says.

[ehrnst]

105. What Democrats is Pwnmom "blaming?"

[hueymahl]

120. You know

The emoji is not fooling anyone.

But go ahead, by all means, continue the circular firing squad.

[StevieM]

103. Am I the only one who remembers this moment from the debates?

[JHan]

284. what a moment.... +++++++

[Lulu KC]

104. Bernie, go lie down

Over it! Absolutely over it!

[BlueIdaho]

108. Thats Helpful... Not. nt.

[McCamy Taylor]

110. Reminds me of a quote: "I love the smell of napalm in the morning"

Flame-bait is so much fun!

[RandySF]

114. Sanders is being disingenuous

He knows Hillary spoke out on Russian interference even if she did not explicitly refer to bots. He is no Democrat and only cares about the party to the extent that it serves his purposes.

[R B Garr]

123. +1, totally disingenuous. Plus his core supporters would not

have believed it if it didn’t come from Bernie himself, so that explains why he let it slide since it benefitted him.
Now he’s blaming Hillary.

[orangecrush]

115. It looks to me

like Bernie was, hopefully unwittingly, the left jab feint that bled votes from Hillary, and Trump was the hard right cross that dropped us.

[Wwcd]

125. K & R. And that is why Mueller named both Trump & Bernie Sanders.

His statement today, "bu but but, She Did it Too!!", is embarrassing.

[orangecrush]

169. agree whoieheartedly.

[Bluepinky]

139. Bernie wasnt the Democratic nominee in the Presidential election, Hillary was.

How could he have bled votes from Hillary when he wasn’t a candidate in the general election?

Had he won the Democratic primary, he may have been able to beat Trump in the general election (according to polls at that time). Alas, we’ll never know now.

[Wwcd]

144. What polls? The polls from his FB page?

[Bluepinky]

146. No, polls showed that the only candidate able to beat Trump in a two-way election was Sanders.

This was when Hillary and Bernie were campaigning in the primary.

[R B Garr]

150. I guess you havent followed the recent news??

If you don’t know, Mueller’s recent indictments have confirmed that Trump and Bernie’s campaigns were receiving Russian help to damage Clinton.

You don’t know the name of the organization committed to writing in Bernie’s name in the General??

[yardwork]

278. I agree.

[orangecrush]

288. Thanks!

[doc03]

127. She did in one of the debates nt

[joshcryer]

157. Thought it was Sarah Sanders.

[Vinca]

158. I live for the day we stop refighting the 2016 primary.

[Bluepinky]

190. It appears that wont happen, and no one here tries to stop it.

[yardwork]

277. Why is Sanders perpetuating this? Why did he say this about Hillary on Wednesday?

[Vinca]

280. I don't know and I don't fucking care. He's not a Democrat. Ignore him.

[yardwork]

282. He's supposedly the frontrunner for Democratic nomination for 2020.

We don't have the luxury to ignore this.

[leftynyc]

159. He's STILL going after Hillary

If I say what I'm really thinking, I'd get my comment removed.

[mcar]

165. Not helpful, Bernie

[Tom Rinaldo]

180. Agreed.

He should have done more about it in real time and he should not respond so defensively now. But neither is an obsession to constantly highlight any flaw regarding him in countess threads on DU helpful. Why? Because there are millions of Democrats and Independents who agreed more with the platform he ran on than the one Hillary ran on, and those people still have those views and many are turned off by obsessive attacks on Sanders, and we need the active support of all of us fighting together against the Trump regime.

Younger voters in particular strongly identified with Sanders. I shudder to think how many potential DU members have been driven away from this site by our continued infighting.

[Wwcd]

191. Really? Ok lets compare platforms then, because you are completely wrong in your statement.

Because there are millions of Democrats and Independents who agreed more with the platform he ran on than the one Hillary ran on,

WTF? This statement is unfair & untrue & THIS is
Why we still have infighting here on DU.
Until statements like yours are corrected, it will continue.

For instance:
3 million more preferred her platform in the primaries.
65 million preferred her platform in the GE.

Her platform was out there long before he even had one.

She also laid out the answer as to how to implement her policies & how to FUND them fairly.

BS did not offer a comprehensive platform in the beginning.

He never did present a way to fund his free stuff when continually confronted wiith the question.
He still doesn't offer a solid answer.

Your statement about his & her platforms are quite unfair & completely incorrect.

Lets compare platforms to prove my point about your statement.
Here's hers from day one .
Then show us his.
Fair Enough?

https://hillaryspeeches.com/tag/four-fights/

Looking through Clinton’s speeches and policy proposals, a clear plan emerges. From Clinton’s kickoff rally in June 2015 to the announcement of the proposed cap on child care costs and expanded early childhood education earlier this month, a list of Clinton’s platform speech topics and announcement dates are below:

THE FOUR FIGHTS

Economy: Clinton outlined a number of changes that would serve to strengthen the economy including strengthening the middle class, increasing the minimum wage, providing equal pay for women, making it illegal to discriminate against LBGT workers, rewriting the tax code, and focusing on lifelong learning that will allow works to adapt to a changing workplace.

She also called for more affordable college for everyone and improving the infrastructure by creating an infrastructure bank that would sell bonds to help fund improvements roads, bridges, power grids, and broadband Internet.

She called for protecting the environment by investing in clean energy and ending the denial of climate change. All these changes, which she will continue to outline in the coming weeks, will create jobs and improve the lives of American workers.

Family: Families have struggled since the recession and Clinton believes that more attention needs to be paid to helping families by guaranteeing paid sick days, paid family leave, pre-school and child care. She also wants to focus on the uneven incarceration polices and provide help to those suffering with mental health issues and addiction.

America’s Leadership: America has long been the leader in the world, but for America to maintain its leadership and influence, Clinton argues that we have not only show strength in our military, but we have to create economic and diplomatic partnerships across the globe.
At the same time, we have to stand up to our adversaries and stand by our allies. We need to be better prepared against cyber attacks and provide better services to our veterans after they have served our country.

Governmental Reform: Clinton argued that now is the time to take government out of corporate hands and back into the hands of Americans.

She called for stopping the flow of unaccountable campaign funds, undoing Citizens United, and improving government technology so it is more open to the pubic.

She also called for improvements to voting including universal registration, longer early voting periods, and ensuring that voting rights are protected despite the Supreme Court’s recent decision.

Read the rest here & tell me again how Sander's platform exceeded hers in popularity.

https://hillaryspeeches.com/tag/four-fights/

June 13 – “Four Fights” of Campaign
July 13 – Economic Agenda
July 27 – Climate Change
July 31 – Cuban Embargo
August 10 – College Affordability
August 18 – Drilling in the Arctic
August 26 – Agriculture
September 1 – Substance Abuse
September 8 – Campaign Finance Reform
September 9 – Nuclear Agreement with Iran
September 14 – Sexual Assault
September 22 – Prescription Drugs
September 23 – Clean Energy
October 5 – Gun Control
October 7 – Trans-Pacific Partnership
October 8 – Wall Street
November 4 – US – Israeli Relations
November 10 – Department of Veterans Affairs
November 12 – Coal Communities
November 19 – ISIS and Global Terrorism
November 20 – Middle-Class Taxes
November 22 – Caregiver Tax Credits
November 29 – Infrastructure
December 8 – Manufacturing (Part 1)
December 15 – Immigration Reform
December 15 – Anti-Terrorism
December 16 – Buffett Rule
December 20 – LGBT Rights
December 22 – Alzheimer’s Disease
January 5 – Autism
January 11 – Fair Share Surcharge
February 12 – “Breaking Every Barrier Agenda”
March 4 – Jobs
March 23 – Counterterrorism
April 1 – Manufacturing (Part 2)
April 13 – Department of Immigrant Affairs
April 13 – Environmental and Climate Justice
May 10 – Improved Child Care and Early Childhood Education
May 25 – Infrastructure Revitalization in First 100 Days
May 31 – Plan to Assist Military Families
June 2 – Foreign Policy
June 13 – Reduction of Gun Violence
June 24 – Immigration Reform
June 25 – Democratic National Committee Platform
June 28 – Empowering Young People to be Entrepreneurs
June 29 – Initiative on Technology and Innovation
July 6 – Debt-Free College
July 7 – Protections for Small Businesses
July 9 – Universal Health Care


Oddly though, It is the same policy changes of HRC's 2016 platform that I hear the vast majority of people today, claiming & crying out that this is what America NEEDS NOW.


The infighting will cease when untrue statements like the one highlighted above cease.


Just FYI.
Thank you

[Tom Rinaldo]

203. Uh, I didn't say millions more agreed with Sanders than Clinton

I think you misunderstood what I said. I simply said that there were millions of people who agreed with his overall stand on issues more than they agreed with her overall stand on issues. There were also millions of people who agreed with her overall stand on issues more than they agree with his. If we use the results of the Democratic primaries to base a comparison of degree of agreement on issues on (although other factors also were at play) than more people agreed with Hillary than Bernie. And I never said her platform was not popular. There was far more agreement between them than disagreement. I for one will gladly say that I was always overall pleased with what Hillary ran on.

That does not however refute what I said. My point was a simple one which is that there are millions of voters who liked what Bernie said more than what Hillary said - which is unmistakably true, I was one, even if more people liked what Hillary said than what Bernie said. And i made that statement only to make the point that it is foolish to unnecessarily alienate the former group when we need a united front.

Nice presentation of Hillary's positive positions though. I have no argument with you over it

[Wwcd]

207. K & R & Thank you for your post

I rarely have seen her thorough & fair platform addressed.
Not by MSM nor here.

[KPN]

206. So that's the Hillary side. Where's the comparison?

[Wwcd]

209. I too am anxious to read it.

It should be readily availible since its been a few years now. Right?
Since 2015 I think.

[KPN]

211. What, you can't google?

Your the one who said "let's compare" ... so compare.

[Wwcd]

224. I did. I could find no platform to begin his campaign on.

That's why I asked.

But wow, did you read Hillary's!
That's what serious leaders do.

Oh well.
Enjoy your day.

[KPN]

233. Oh, so you never saw Bernie's Agenda for America or his website during his campaign.

Wait, let me google those. ........

OK, back. Gee, it appears you didn't try very hard. Let me know if you can't find them and I'll send you the links.

Serious leaders? Are you saying Bernie isn't serious? Not sure what what else you could mean.

Anyway, this stuff you Bernie haters are posting relentlessly here at DU is petty, divisive and reflects poorly on all of us. I either have to ignore it, call it out, or leave.

You enjoy your day too.

[KPN]

208. My, the vigilantes are out in force.

String him up!

Ridiculous. Good luck in 2018 with this kind of thoughtless vitriol.

This stuff actually does cause me to wonder about the party I have been 100% loyal to the past 46 years of my voting life.

[pnwmom]

213. Sanders isn't a Democrat anymore. n/t

[KPN]

214. Who said he was?

That's not relevant. His policies and proposals are and always have been.

Sour grape vigilanteism. Unproductive at best.

[pnwmom]

217. Yes, it's relevant. Now that he's built up a higher profile, I think he will use it

to run as an Independent in 2020.

And what will happen? Large numbers of minority voters are NEVER going to choose Bernie over the Democrat. So the votes of Dems will be split between the Democrat, someone like Kamala Harris or Corey Booker or Juan Castro or Adam Schiff or Julian Castro -- and Independent Bernie and the Green Party.

And in 2021 we say hello to President Pence.

[Wwcd]

221. And that was the point from the beginning

Money & Media!!
His own words.

"When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time" ~ hrc

[KPN]

267. I will remember this prediction in 2019/20.

Personally, I don't see it.

[George II]

269. I think we'll be saying hello to President Pence later this year or next year....

....and like Nixon / Ford whoever runs in 2020 (likely Pence) will be so tainted by corruption he'll lose.

[Wwcd]

218. Haahaaa. Omg. Plenty of that sour grape vigilanteism daggers flying from all directions.

Own it.

[Wwcd]

227. Not always with his vote however.

M.A.G.N.I.T.S.K.Y.

Voted Against RU sanctions.

[yardwork]

274. If Bernie's policies and proposals are, then why isn't he a Democrat?

[Wwcd]

216. Just calling out the bias against their Party, it seems.

Bias, hypocrisy, ...people will stand up to such.

[pnwmom]

286. Why is he out there saying things like this? Are people not supposed to react

when he falsely blames Hillary?

[lark]

231. He's lost me, totally.

I used to really like him, voted for him in the primaries and even donated a bit to him, to my now shame. I loved this lefty, but that has changed so much and every day he seems to get worse. I cant blieve he'd even try to blame Hillary for russian meddling when she did her best to get out this information. Something Bernie said absolutely nothing about but he's blaming her? WTF? I will never help him out again and I don't live in VT so don't have to vote for him either.

[Wwcd]

235. I know. Maybe, Sanders should have spoken up about Russian bots during election

He knew also.

That's why he's in the hot seat with Mueller's investigation.

He knew & stayed silent.

[NurseJackie]

245. That tells me a lot...

He knew & stayed silent.

That tells me a lot about anyone who would do such a thing.

[lark]

264. This is a bright red line he's crossed for me.

He new yet said nothing. Clinton talked about this often, where was he?

[redstatebluegirl]

251. I am beyond sick of Bernie right now.

I liked him in the beginning, I knew he couldn't get elected in a national election, but I like what he was saying. Then it seemed like all he wanted to do was blow up the Democratic party, at that point I quit listening.

[NurseJackie]

289. "...all he wanted to do was blow up the Democratic party..."

Then it seemed like all he wanted to do was blow up the Democratic party,

I can assure you that many others observed the same things... and arrived at identical conclusions... and responded in the exact same way.

Others are noting that when it comes to being serious contender for national office, it's over for him. I believe there is a lot of truth an accuracy to those sentiments.

[Chakaconcarne]

252. Oh Gee... another pissing contest over Hillary vs Sanders

Who could possible prevail this time?

Prediction: no one.

[ehrnst]

273. Senator Sanders was the originator of the comment

And yes, I agree with you, it leads to nothing positive.

[yardwork]

276. Who prevails? Putin's Republicans.

I agree with you that nothing good for Democrats can come of this, so why did Bernie Sanders do it? Why did he say these things last week?

[lanlady]

270. Shut up, Bernie

Just shut up please. Never trusted you, never will. Where is that big nationwide movement you promised your supporters who sent you money btw?

[TheDebbieDee]

279. ...

[img][/img]

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

281. DOES NO ONE REMEMBER that she did speak up about Russian interference - or was that in an

alternate universe that I accidentally slipped into one day??? At least in one of the debates .... for which she was roundly chastised by some.

Sheesh. And besides if yall didnt hear her say that then you might consider what else she might have said that you missed. I dont know how many times I had to turn off progressive radio (Steph Miller, Hartmann, Alan Comes RIP) because of the overwhelming preponderance of DJT clips - not much HRC at all.

[pnwmom]

283. I DO remember, and some others have pointed it out. Your are right -- his comment

implying otherwise is very unfair.

[JCMach1]

285. She warned us all

Very few of our idiot countrymen were listening...