Gun store that sold AR-15 to school shooter closes shop

[packman]

Source: UPI

The owners of the gun shop where charged high school shooter Nikolas Cruz bought his weapon are distraught, in hiding and have closed the store, their lawyers said.

Michael and Lisa Morrison, owners of Sunrise Tactical Supply in Coral Springs, Fla., sold the AR-15 automatic rifle to Cruz in February 2017, lawyer Stuart Kaplan said Thursday. He added that the Morrisons told him that Cruz passed a federal background check, returned for the unaltered weapon a week after it was purchased and did not buy additional ammunition other than the magazine which came in the box containing the weapon


Read more: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/02/16/Gun-store-that-sold-AR-15-to-school-shooter-closes-shop/2571518791599/

[mopinko]

1. good.

[getagrip_already]

2. cowards. n/t

[forgotmylogin]

37. Are they cowards, or did they have an epiphany and get out of the business?

Likely a bit of both.

[Skittles]

65. LOL

so Sandy Hook, Pulse and Vegas didn't do it

they're a classic example of not getting it until something "happens" to THEM

selfish fucking cowards

[George II]

3. What did they think the products they sold were going to be used for, even if it wasn't...

....a mass shooting?

That gun and bullets were designed to destroy. Period.

Distraught? Tough luck. Open a hot dog stand.

[iluvtennis]

26. Exactly.

[central scrutinizer]

75. I think Tactical Supply says it all

Nfm

[Hav]

4. The system works

At least that counters the point of those claiming the existing system works whenever a shooter got a gun illegally and that nothing needs to be done and that nothing can be done. Here we saw how bullet-proof the system is (pardon the pun).

[jberryhill]

5. Good thing they are not too distraught to hire lawyers

[Fullduplexxx]

6. Any chance they can be sued in civil court?

[Jedi Guy]

9. I don't see how they could be.

In what way are they liable? They followed the laws and handled the transaction correctly, according to the reporting I've seen. The only way I can see them being liable is if it can be proven that they knew of Cruz's mental and disciplinary issues, and chose to sell to him anyway.

[Fullduplexxx]

60. It's my understanding that rules for civil court are not the same for regular Court

You dont neccessarily have to break a specific law to drag someone into civil court .

[LeftInTX]

63. There is a loophole that protects gun manufacturers/dealers

Unless the store did something negligent, they can't be sued.

Yes, the NRA is that powerful!! I can't remember when this became a law. I'm thinking in the early 2000s.

[Jedi Guy]

69. Is that such a bad thing, though?

The vast majority of the guns this shop sold were probably never used in a crime. If they follow all applicable laws and have no way of knowing a customer's malicious intent, how is it fair that they be held responsible? That's expecting them to predict the future.

Again, if they'd done something illegal like ignored the background check results, they can fry for all I care. Or if dude said, "Yeah, I want something that'll kill a whole load of people super fast" and they set him up, they can fry. Otherwise, I just don't see any logical liability there.

[Jim Lane]

82. That law doesn't come into play here.

Somebody bought a car and used it to murder Heather Heyer in Charlottesville. Does her family have a cause of action against the automobile dealer? Of course not. There's no "loophole" for motor vehicles, but that doesn't change the basic requirement that a plaintiff in a civil suit must show that the defendant breached a duty.

[Jedi Guy]

72. That's probably true.

However, my understanding of civil court's threshold of guilt is that, rather than guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, the preponderance of evidence is the standard. That is, if it's 51% likely that the person is guilty, they're guilty.

I don't think that'd apply in this case, unless it can be proven that they knew of Cruz's unstable background, and chose to sell to him anyway.

[Jim Lane]

83. You don't "have to break a specific law" but you must have violated a duty.

Oversimplifying a bit, the basic elements for a civil suit not grounded in contract are: duty, breach of duty, proximate cause, and damages.

From what I read in this thread, the gun shop had a duty to refuse to sell Cruz the gun unless and until he had passed the background check. The shop put his name in for the check and he came back approved. Therefore, there was no duty that the shop breached.

[Fullduplexxx]

85. Thanks ..... nt

[Downtown Hound]

7. "They are scared, not for their safety or not just for their safety, but more importantly for how

the reaction is going to be from the rest of the community when they try to re-enter it."

As they should be. Sorry, but you can only hide behind, "I was just doing my job" for so long.

[Jedi Guy]

8. Don't really understand the hate for the gun store owners.

If he'd sold it to the asshole illegally, then sure, nail his ass to the wall. If he'd done anything untoward in the transaction, then he deserves the hate and whatever punishment the law prescribes. But he didn't do any of those things. If it could be proven somehow that he knew of Cruz's mental instability and his intentions (such as Facebook posts) and sold him the gun anyway, then yeah, I'd understand the hate. That doesn't appear to be the case, though.

Secondly, why does the article describe it as an automatic rifle? An AR-15 is semiautomatic.

[PSPS]

10. There is little sympathy for someone involved in the killing trade, "legal" or not.

Gun stores in the US are just fetish stores that cater to the mentally unbalanced who get their sexual gratification from destroying things (or people.)

[Jedi Guy]

11. Fair enough.

People are entitled to their feelings and opinions, even if I don't share them. I just hope there's no violence directed at the gun store owners.

[PSPS]

12. Who cares? They make their living off violence. What a shame if they get some blowback in kind.

[Jedi Guy]

14. I care.

I'm not going to endorse or condone violence against someone who followed the law in handling the transaction.

[Squinch]

17. Your assumption that blowback can only take a violent form is telling.

[Jedi Guy]

22. Yeah, okay, because that's exactly what I said...

At no point did I state that violence is the only way blowback can occur. It's funny that you're talking about making assumptions, since you made a hell of an assumption. It's absurd that saying "I hope there's no violence" is twisted into something I never meant.

[Squinch]

24. Actually you informed us all that you would not endorse or condone violence. As if anyone had

asked you to.

I'm sure you will continue to parse away, but just so you know, it's not working.

[Jedi Guy]

27. Uh huh. Did you bother to read the comment I was responding to?

PSPS (7,034 posts)

12. Who cares? They make their living off violence. What a shame if they get some blowback in kind. [Emphasis added]

Do you know what "in kind" means in this context? Either you don't know, or you didn't read it. I'm not "parsing" anything. You're just spoiling for a fight, it seems to me.

[Plucketeer]

35. Well then

go ahead and extend your thoughts and prayers to them. Tell them they can reopen their death tool business once the NEXT slaughter demands the spotlight.

[Jedi Guy]

36. Okay. N/T

[LanternWaste]

91. I love the smell of self-righteousness in the late morning

I love the smell of self-righteousness in the late morning when the jasmine blooms are just beginning to fade, especially when that self-righteousness is both predicated on and countering a sentiment absolutely no one else is arguing.

It smells almost as absurd as pretending self-righteousness is something other than what it is... I expect to savor that scent quite soon as well.

[Jedi Guy]

94. Awesome, someone else who doesn't know what "in kind" means...

Enjoy smelling your imaginary self-righteousness, I guess.

[maxrandb]

61. Yes

It'd be a God damn shame if 17 of the gun store owners children get gunned down.

"Hey! Leave us alone...we only "legally" sold the gas to the Nazis"

[Jedi Guy]

71. Yeah, no.

Not gonna jump on a bandwagon where it's okay for violence against the innocent to happen. You do you, though.

Incidentally, after the war makers of Zyklon B who provided it to the Nazis, and knew what they used it for, were executed or imprisoned. Note that key word, "knew." It's important. If this gun store owner knew or had reasonable cause to suspect that Cruz was gonna shoot up his former school (like if he'd seen Facebook posts Cruz had made) I'd be right there with you calling for him to be held to account.

Otherwise, no sale.

[Major Nikon]

20. I don't think the word "hate" really applies here

Imagine if there were a well organized effort to regulate gun shop owners out of business by imposing increasingly restrictive set of laws specifically intended to make their shops completely impractical. Then consider angry mobs camped outside their door harassing every single patron and holding up large signs of people killed and mutilated by guns. Throw in some crazed stalkers who follow them home, publish their personal information widely with targets drawn on their faces, some of who will inevitably murder gun shop owners as a result.

When gun shops are reduced to no more than a handful in each state with the owners forced to hire private 24 hour security, then perhaps "hate" might start to make sense. Until then I'd just as soon save my sympathy for someone else.

[Jedi Guy]

23. Okay, I see where you're going.

I don't understand or agree with blaming the gun store owners for what Cruz did, that's all. They followed the laws, they didn't know his intentions, and they can't predict the future. I don't hold them responsible for what happened. If you want to, have at it.

[Major Nikon]

32. I don't hold them responsible, just have exactly zero sympathy

[Jedi Guy]

33. Fair enough. N/T

[paleotn]

64. And why not?

They sell tools of death. Eventually some of those tools are going to be used for horrific or at the very least nefarious purposes. A corollary to the Nuremberg defense.... "we were selling a legal product." Sorry, anyone with half a fucking brain would know that this may not end well. Profitable, but may not end well. It takes, shall we say, a rather cold heart to take the side of profits in this case.

[mr_lebowski]

58. Did you see the Abortion Clinic tie-in?

I thought it was kinda clever by that poster, myself.

Anyways, I agree w/your 'blowback' stance, your reading of 'in kind' was logical.

Welcome to DU, btw

It can get a little testy here, esp. w/newer folk. People are generally regarded as potential trolls until proven otherwise, just the way it works. Gotta earn your stripes (not sure I even have mine yet tbh).

[Jedi Guy]

68. Yep, I saw it.

That's why I said I saw where he/she was going. And it was clever, I'll agree with that. The way abortion clinics are treated is shameful and un-American. Someone else's choices, that don't affect you, are none of your business. Alas, so few seem to grasp that.

And thanks. Glad to know that someone else understands my interpretation of what was said, and that it wasn't just me.

Thanks for the welcome, as well. I realize that folks are wary of trolls (I lurked a while before making an account), so I tempered my responses a bit. The initial drafts were a little more heated than what wound up being posted, but I figured that if looked like I was being aggressive or attacking established members, well... that never goes down well in any community, online or otherwise.

Anyway, thanks again!

[Skittles]

66. maybe we just DETEST gun humping cowards

[Jedi Guy]

70. Okay cool, detest away.

I'll feel free to point out when those feelings are illogical or unreasonable.

[Skittles]

76. it is not illogical or unreasonable to detest people who particpate in the gun trade

but behave as though they have NO IDEA guns are often used to KILL PEOPLE

[Jedi Guy]

78. You're entitled to your feelings.

I don't have to agree with them or validate them. It really is that simple.

[Skittles]

86. LOL, I am ENTITLED to my feelings???

yes, I guess THE SENSELESS MURDER OF MULTIPLE CHILDREN kinda makes me angry

an apologist like you - ugh - STRAIGHT to ignore

[Jedi Guy]

88. In what way am I an "apologist" exactly?

Or are you just gonna assume my stance on this issue because I don't immediately jump to "burn the witch!" where the gun store owners are concerned?

You're perfectly entitled to feel the way you do. I'm perfectly entitled to disagree with you. Like I said, it really is that simple.

[snort]

13. They feel bad about it?

They named their fucking store "sunrise tactical supply" not "maybe you'll go deer hunting with your uncle this year supply".

FUCK THEM

[keithbvadu2]

15. Why close? ... Legal sale. Right?

[hatrack]

16. Maybe they could smell the hot tar . . .

Maybe the feathers tickled their nose. Don't think they'd have a really solid financial future in Broward County after this atrocity.

[Squinch]

18. LOL. As if the highest arbiters of right and wrong are our fakakta gun laws.

[jberryhill]

84. Because they were up to other things

[harun]

92. Human emotion perhaps

[bitterross]

19. I have a few thoughts here that I'm sure will be unpopular. Don't blame the gun shop. Waste of time.

First of all, the gun shop owners are engaged in a perfectly legal business. They carry a product of which I do not approve but one I'm sure they must carry to compete with other similar businesses. Until we regulate the sale of this product for ALL gun shops it is not appropriate to make a single gun shop the evil party here and expect them to not sell one of the most popular products in their industry. They are, after all, in business to make a living. There is nothing wrong with owning a gun shop and selling guns. There is something very wrong with our legislators who allow the types of assault weapons they sell to be sold.

Second, they did the federal background check and, if they are telling the truth, sold Cruz a small amount of ammo.

If the story is accurate they had no way of knowing this guy was going to do a mass killing.

It is wrong, in my opinion, to put any blame on this individual gun shop and its owners. They are not responsible for the actions of Cruz anymore than a car dealer is responsible for someone who causes a mass pile-up from speeding or a liquor store is responsible for a drunk driver or a drunk train operator. All of those scenarios can and have caused mass deaths too.

Wasting time blaming the gun shop is not very productive. Keep the focus on the legislators please.

[Jedi Guy]

25. Take it from me, it's an unpopular opinion.

I stated that I hope there's no violence directed at the gun store owners in retaliation, and somehow that's being twisted into something I clearly didn't intend. Good luck to you.

[Hoyt]

31. "Legal," but immoral and despicable. Sometimes you need to do the right thing.

Profiting off gunz is not the right. It's pure white wing racist greed.

[bitterross]

38. Now you are painting all gun shop owners with a broad brush.

Do you really believe that every single gun shop owner is a white racist?

[Hoyt]

39. Pretty much. Most of them cater to white wing racist, militia types. You know it too.

[bitterross]

40. No, I don't know that at all.

I grew up in the South and there are plenty of racists there. Yes, some of them own guns and some of them own gun shops. But what I do know, is that not all of the gun shop owners there are white racists.

There is nothing wrong with owning a gun shop. There are perfectly legitimate reasons to own guns. Particularly where I grew up on a farm. We had rodents and pests we needed to get rid of.

Not every person who owns a gun or sells guns is a white racist. It is a shame that people want to paint all the people in a particular group with a broad brush that only applies to a few in the extreme.

It's almost like wanting to ban all Muslims because of a few extremists or thinking that all African American males are criminals.

[Ferrets are Cool]

42. Then they should only sell weapons that kill rats.

Not semi-automatic weapons of mass destruction.
I hate fuckers who sell these weapons and then hide behind it being their LEGAL RIGHT. FUCK ALL OF THEM.

[bitterross]

43. And that was my original point. When ALL shops can only sell rat guns fine.

I agree with your point. And, I think it is unreasonable to expect them to sell only rat rifles when that will put them out of business and the Cruz's of the world will just go next door.

When the people who are really able to change the law do it then they can ban the sale of those weapons. Until then, it is folly to blame specific people for selling them.

[Ferrets are Cool]

79. And my point is, IF YOU HAVE TO SELL THINGS THAT ARE

MADE SOLELY FOR THE PURPOSE OF KILLING PEOPLE, then find a new occupation. FU THEM. Just because it's legal doesn't make it right.

[Hoyt]

45. Give me a few names of gun shops with websites. I'll take a look for my self. Most people who own

a bunch of guns, like AR15s, carry in public, etc., are racists or are fine with racists and supported trump. When was the last time you went to a gun store, gun show, etc.

It's not a FEW extremists when you are talking about lots of guns, supporting white wing NRA, supporting white wing candidates that support lax gun laws, gun profiteers, militia groups, etc.

[Old Vet]

53. Thats just BULLSHIT on so many levels, I cant believe you really think that........

Of all the gun stores Ive been to, They are the last people who would condone any violence on people.

[Hoyt]

56. BS. What the hell do you think they are selling? You telling me they dont

have hicap mags, ammo designed to splinter internally, sniper rifles, AR15s, other lethal accessories, etc. Give me a name of a few gun stores you frequent, and I’ll show you why that’s BS.

[Marengo]

62. Were you doing the right and moral thing when committing acts of robbery?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=45338

[Jedi Guy]

73. Ouch. That one's gonna leave a mark... N/T

[azureblue]

46. no, it isn't

like it or not, this gun shop followed the law. The owners are ashamed that this white supremacist Foxbot / Trumpnut terrorist used a weapon purchased at their shop to kill.

But to blame them is akin to blaming a liquor store (or grocery store in some areas) for selling the booze that got the guy drunk who got in his car and caused an accident that killed other people.

[Raven123]

49. I don't think liquor is "designed" to kill

[padfun]

59. In some area's a drinking establishment can be responsible

for serving anyone who is too intoxicated. A bar was sued for just that and lost. It might have been only a civil case, but it did change who gets served in some bars.

Edit: The car sales analogy seems to be more apt in this case.

[Ferrets are Cool]

81. Here is the difference that "I" see...

these guns are manufactured for ONE thing. Killing people. They have no other purpose. If you can't find a way to make a living in your store by selling guns that are "specifically" made to kill people, you SHOULD go out of business. It is my opinion, and it won't change.

btw, alcohol isn't made for the purpose of KILLING people...it might end up doing that, but so can my hair dryer.

[Iggo]

21. They sold him a product that successfully performed exactly as it was designed to do.

Why are they distraught?

[Raven123]

51. Exactly as designed. It is a weapon of death

[NCjack]

28. They are a "customer satisfaction purveyor". Why are they hiding?

[onecent]

29. THAT WAS A SMART MOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hoyt]

30. Love it when a gun, lethal weapons profiteer goes down. This store had the word TACTICAL in their

name to appeal to white wing racist gunners. And it worked. Screw them.

[azureblue]

47. Tactical gun shops

are often shops who cater to law enforcement. Hence the use of the word..

[Hoyt]

54. Or militia types, police wannabes, Cruz, george zimmerman, gun-humpers, etc.

Your defense of gun profiteers is noted.

[joshcryer]

67. It's funny how they always can just close shop so easily.

Mainly due to the demand for their product, they know they can sell it all off at the next big gun show without much fanfare. They aren't going to lose money on this.

[PJMcK]

34. The owners feel distraught?!

I hope their thoughts are with the families of the children who were killed by the machine they sold.

No one forced them into the weapons industry. They can suck on it.

I suspect that they are simply cowards who are afraid of facing the rational part of society who all protest their business.

On the other hand: Free markets, baby!

Thanks, Republicans.

[BamaRefugee]

41. In California, it's legal to sell Tobacco but

CVS has decided they won't do it. Walgreens and others, yep.
So these quivering gun shop owners could have decided to sell all kinds of guns, just not *AND DON"T BS ME WITH ANY AMMOSEXUAL LINGO* AR-15s or the like, or any weapons commonly referred to by the public as "assault rifles" "automatic weapons" etc.

They'd still be running the store undisturbed.

[MarcA]

48. Exactly. If they believe in the product they sell

they wouldn't be closing and hiding just because someone misused it.

[PSPS]

44. LOL. Gee, too bad. I'll send thoughts and prayers your way stat!

[llmart]

50. Old-fashioned shunning in the community really works.

We need to start using it more. I have zero sympathy for these idiots who profit off of others misery and death. I don't care if it's legal or not. People make the laws and laws can be changed.

We all make choices in our lives. Choosing to sell these mass murdering weapons was their choice. No one made them do it.

They reap what they sow.

[DownriverDem]

52. I am opposed

of folks having war weapons. They are for the military.

[old guy]

55. They won't be closed very long you can take that to the bank.

[flying-skeleton]

57. They'll just reopen elsewhere !!

COWARDS !!

[FSogol]

77. Sure, there are lots of schools that haven't been shot up yet!

[Hekate]

74. Forever, I hope. Maybe they can re-open as a camping and fishing supply store

[rownesheck]

80. If any gun shop owner

Had a soul, they wouldn't sell tactical, military style assault rifles. Fuck em. Hopefully they close shop forever.

[Renew Deal]

87. They are distraught that something they sold was used for its intended purpose?

I’m sure they’ve accepted tons of NRA support through the years.

[MrScorpio]

89. At least they can go to bed knowing that they didn't sell a defective product

That is, if they can sleep at night at all.

[Turbineguy]

90. It's a bit like Home Depot expressing anguish

that one of their hammers was used to pound in a nail by somebody building a tool shed.

[workinclasszero]

93. Bet they open up in another town under a different name