Dow plummets 1000 points into correction territory, S&P 500 drops 3.7% to new low for week
Source: CNBC
Stocks fell sharply on Thursday as strong earnings and economic data were enough to quell jitters on Wall Street about higher interest rates.
The Dow Jones industrial average traded 850 points lower after opening just above the flatline. This is the third drop for the Dow greater than 500 points in the last five days. Despite the decline Thursday, the average is still a ways from its low for the week hit on Tuesday of 23,778.74. General Electric and Intel were the worst-performing stocks in the index, sliding more than 3 percent. J.P. Morgan Chase, meanwhile, was down by more than 2.5 percent.
The S&P 500 pulled back 3.1 percent after a higher open, with financials as the worst-performing sector. The index also broke below its 100-day moving average and traded under 2,600, two important thresholds. For the S&P 500, it is its third drop of greater than 2 percent in the last five days.
Read more: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/08/us-stock-futures-dow-data-earnings-fed-speeches-market-sell-off-and-politics-on-the-agenda.html
MontanaMama
(23,357 posts)that can translate this for us? I don't want to be chicken little...is the sky falling?
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,664 posts)How am I reacting to this drop in stock prices? Automatically adding more to my 401(k) through payroll deductions. I might rebalance the allocation of the contributions, but stop contributing? No way. I'm already at the upper limit of how I can contribute.
MontanaMama
(23,357 posts)I'm laughing out loud at my desk mahatmakanejeeves!! Good one.
getagrip_already
(14,891 posts)Yeah that's it, good news caused the market to go down!
MontanaMama
(23,357 posts)I get where you're going...
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,047 posts)One of the biggest market proverbs is "Buy on rumor, sell on news". The market went up because tRump promised tax cuts for the rich. It accelerated on its uptrend as the legislation was being debated and passed.
Once it had passed, there was no reason to buy more, and lots of reasons to take profit in an over-priced market.
So they did.
Yonnie3
(17,500 posts)When I was working and had a 401k, I'd redirect my contributions into whatever had been the worst performer. Many of my coworkers would angrily sell their under performers, no matter what I said to them.
I had changed jobs and in early August 1987 I was incredibly lucky to have my retirement funds in a check to send off to my new retirement. The funds didn't get invested in the S&P500 index until late October so I missed much of the downside.
Now that I'm in the distribution phase I balance my IRA to my allocation once it has strayed away enough.
ChiTownDenny
(747 posts)that the proper term is Democratic Party.
Skittles
(153,226 posts)yes indeed
ChiTownDenny
(747 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(57,664 posts)Yavin4
(35,450 posts)Soooo, the stock market is Tinkerbell?
fountainofyouth
(409 posts)But no, the sky is not falling. Wall Street is correcting against a couple of things. The overall economy is generally strong, and interest rates have been quite low for some time, which has made lending easy. To ensure against a spike in inflation, the Fed is going to consider raising interest rates, which dampens market enthusiasm that came from that easy lending. In addition, the market has been bad this last week for derivatives traders who were placing bets on low market volatility. One bad day creates volatility, which means the people betting on low volatility lost money.
MontanaMama
(23,357 posts)Thank you.
wysimdnwyg
(2,233 posts)We're now there. The Dow Jones has dropped over 2,750 points from its all time high of 26,616.71 in late January.
That said, the "experts" have been predicting a correction for a while now. Don't be surprised or alarmed if it drops another 2,000 points or so over the next few weeks. That would put it in the area of a 20% drop. The 2008 recession was notable for a drop in the Dow of over 50%. The market has been extraordinarily bullish since 2009 or so (hmm... I wonder what major event happened in early 2009 that might have something to do with that?) and has more than quadrupled from a low of 6,443.
(If it goes down more than 20%, you should probably be a bit concerned.)
Fiendish Thingy
(15,686 posts)We arent there yet.
Id be worried if trading reaches the point where the computer triggers shut down trading; my understanding the volume of trades has been low, so were still not there.
Some are saying its the prospect of climbing interest rates thats triggered this, but I think its mostly priced in. This is overdue profit taking by folks who figure the Trump bump is over, and the project trillion dollar deficit this year is bringing a dose of reality.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)Stock market experts have been predicting a slight drop in 2018 since mid-2017. But I didn't expect it to happen so soon into 2018.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)debsy
(530 posts)We keep falling for it as our 401Ks slide to the bottom. I'm sure a bunch of characters in this play are laughing all the way to the Bank of Cyprus...
SCantiGOP
(13,874 posts)The more money people have the more they lose when the market goes down. How would this decline transfer wealth? It just erases the wealth, which only exists on paper anyway until one withdraws assets from an equity account.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)"" It just erases the wealth, which only exists on paper anyway until one withdraws assets from an equity account."""
Exactly, potential wealth is erased for some while others = insiders, who bought low and sold high could potentially make big bucks = transfer of wealth.
I wouldn't say that the stock market is rigged, but I would say that those on the inside have all the advantages.
GetRidOfThem
(869 posts)The dow drops because people are selling, and that may also be people taking their profits, converting shares into hard cash.
Also, don't forget that those that bet on a decline by either (a) short selling of (b) buying put options are cleaning up.
jpak
(41,760 posts)n/t
Historic NY
(37,454 posts)CountAllVotes
(20,878 posts)Its on dump alright!
He's got to get that money for the tax break for the rich!
Where will he get it from?
I know!
Steal from the middle-class and the poor and give it to the rich, that is the plan! The rich will find out what the word poor means perhaps, perhaps not, but I think the rich should find some other group or person to fund their rich lives & quit stealing from the working class and the poor! What a disgrace!!
pwb
(11,294 posts)The fake promise of hiring more, building more plants, giving employees raises were really ignored and replaced with stock buy backs and higher dividends to share holders. Who would have guessed it was all a lie.
flamingdem
(39,332 posts)and share holders are happy w dividends.
Think it's rising interest rates and getting rid of Yellin perhaps
pwb
(11,294 posts)I will still go with the tax cut lie that it will help the middle class. They are not building plants, not hiring but laying off, not giving raises but only one time bonuses etc etc. The big money people expected more and the little 401k people expected more. Lies, even buy the highly paid news and money talkers aren't working anymore. It has all been exposed along with family values and religious values as being fake and nothing more than lies that fewer and fewer people are buying as fact. But we can disagree, I am fine with all opinions that create thought and another side of things.
BigmanPigman
(51,642 posts)Last week it was due to the job numbers increasing, signaling possible inflation which is also going along with increased mortgage rates. The long term investors and not the day traders are who we have to watch. That is how Ali Velshi explained it on MSNBC anyway.
bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)Doesnt seem healthy to me. The economy is fine until it isnt. Many financial experts failed to predict 2008. The same people say it is all good now. We will see.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,794 posts)a) A 1,000 drop is a result of jitters having been quelled (sounds wrong)
b) They meant to write "strong earnings and economic data were NOT enough to quell jitters."
Cold War Spook
(1,279 posts)doesn't know what quell means?
OnlinePoker
(5,727 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,364 posts)when the Fed raised interest rates.
I follow this indicator: http://www.wwfn.com/crashupdate.html
Though can't vouch for its accuracy. Kind of after the fact at times.
I'd bet we're a cinch to see 21,000 or thereabouts
Perhaps 18,900
And in a real governmentally bungled response, who knows what that means in today's world, more is possible
My guess ... due to the rampant upside we've had, the interest rate hikes, the inflation and perhaps stagflation implied
16,783 but that really would require something geopolitical ... Korean strife, Olympic difficulties, oil supply problems, Middle East turmoil, for example.
Don't listen to me. If you knew how bad I am at this you'd fire me!
flamingdem
(39,332 posts)we'll see a swoop up tomorrow I bet.
elmac
(4,642 posts)the huge debt taken on due to zero interest for years, as rates rise plus China and others snubbing our debt plus government no longer artificially supporting the market we could see a massive correction/crash.
bucolic_frolic
(43,364 posts)I understand valuations or at least intrinsic value and overvaluation. I understand market cycles and stages. Over the last year, and recently, the idea of what used to be called a 'bullish blow-off top' has been renamed a "melt-up". This would be a grand finale to market excesses, perhaps 10,000 points on the upside to 35,000 or even 40,000. Most recently, in a Consuelo Mack WealthTrack interview with Jeremy Grantham the famed investment advisor, he thought emerging markets and Europe were the place to be to capture what hasn't moved as much and protect against a downturn, a play on the melt-up. This was about 2 weeks ago.
Well, I read John Hussman's now monthly commentary. He's criticized as a Perma-bear. But he makes and has made for several years a compelling case for a crash when investors suddenly become risk averse. He may have even used the word imminent in his latest column.
More to the point, the economy is growing at max with max employment. Additional earnings and the spending behind it to feed those earnings is going to come from where and from whom, exactly?
It is difficult to make a case for upside from 27,000 on the Dow. I suppose it can happen, but with what degree of probability?
rtracey
(2,062 posts)Ok so heres the deal....
If you are going to retire in 3- 6 months..... you should not be in the market.
If you are going to retire in 1-5 years, dont dump the market, but diversify your portfolio..... 60% stocks, 30% bonds, 10% cash (money market), maybe if you are well off, and are a little scared CD (@2.50 is about it) might help...you wont lose it
If you are going to retire in 5 - 10, 20 years..... good stock, equity funds, some blue chips, 401k, 403b
Remember, a down market helps future earnings in your portfolio... you may lose up front value, but long term, your prices will drop allowing more purchase power..... dont panic, but dont be totally passive either...watch it and see.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)No one here is panicking.
No one.
We're discussing, analyzing, mocking, and even playing train-of-thought.
But no panic.
Thanks. K. Bye.
yeah maybe not you...
The Mouth
(3,165 posts)Any fans here of the book "A Random Walk Down Wall Street"?
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,916 posts)or shortly before retirement. You should remain in stocks, bonds, and cash, although perhaps a smaller percentage in stocks than before. Remaining invested is a good idea.
rtracey
(2,062 posts)Sorry, I disagree, but it does depend on your situation. Perfect example was my parents. They had their entire retirement in stocks from a major utility. 2007-08 hit and they took what I would say was the final crack.... they ended up losing so much value, they needed to sell at a horrendous loss, just to keep their home. SS was not enough. They did have several CD's that kept them going...
Again it all depends on your situation.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,916 posts)Although utility stocks typically pay dividends.
Diversify. Diversify. Diversify.
Plus, if you sell everything and put it in bonds, what's the interest rate these days? And what's inflation?
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,664 posts)His father worked for a utility and had to sell at the bottom. Steve Bannon never got over this. He blamed someone else, of course.
By Richard Cohen Opinion writer March 20, 2017
It is a story oft-repeated and, at first, quite moving. It is the story of Marty Bannon, father of the White House chief strategist, Stephen K. Bannon, and how he lost much of his nest egg when the financial system cratered in 2008. He had worked for AT&T for 50?years, buying the stock when it was as safe as gold (only gold paid no dividend) and was now watching it go south at such an alarming rate that he decided to sell it. In a flash, the system turned on Marty and a lifetime of savings was gone. For his son Steve, it was an unforgettable lesson. It made him the revolutionary he is today.
The story reappeared last week in the Wall Street Journal. The only net worth my father had beside his tiny little house was that AT&T stock, Steve Bannon was quoted as saying. And nobody is held accountable? All these firms get bailed out. Theres no equity taken from anybody. Theres no one in jail.
That day, that October day when Marty Bannon panicked and took Jim Cramers advice from the TV and sold his AT&T stock, was when Steve Bannon had an epiphany: Everything since then has come from there, he said.
By Nicholas LemannMarch 21, 2017
Steve Bannon is the keeper of the secret formulathat peculiar and potent mix of aggressive bluster and selective empathythat enabled Donald Trump to be elected. Its worth remembering how unlikely the success of the formula seemed even a year ago. Before Trump got to Hillary Clinton, and when Bannon was an informal adviser, the candidate mowed down a long list of Republican opponents, without being the biggest spender or having the best organization. That was because the formula worked. It isnt conventionally liberal or conservative, and it doesnt have much in common with the standard views of either political party. Essentially, all of Trumps Republican opponents were more pro-market, more pro-trade, and more anti-government than he was. And Clinton, by virtue of unexpected pressure from Bernie Sanders, had moved slightly in the direction of the Trump formula before she was nominated.
Last week, Bannon gave an extended interview to the Wall Street Journal, in which he offered an origin story about his (as the Journals headline put it) journey to economic nationalism. He said that Marty Bannon, his ninety-five-year-old father, a devout Catholic whose education ended at the third grade, had, like his father before him, worked at A.T. & T. for half a century, rising slowly from a blue-collar job to a white-collar one; his loyalty to the company was so great that he put all his savings into A.T. & T. stock. Then, in October of 2008, he was watching Jim Cramer on the Today show, and heard Cramer say that it was time to sellso he did. Poof, a hundred thousand dollars of painstakingly accumulated savings were gone, even as the financial institutions that perpetrated the crisis were being bailed out. Bannon told the Journal, Everything since then has come from there. All of it.
This is political mythology, and it doesnt stand up to strict rational analysis. Steve Bannon was well into his career as a conservative documentary filmmaker who sounded nationalist notes before the 2008 financial crisis. And, after watching Cramer on television, Marty Bannon had lots of better options than selling his stock. He neglected to consult his sonstwo of whom, including Steve, had worked in financebefore selling. They would have told him not to. Had he not sold, he would not have lost any money, because A.T. & T. stock regained its value over time. There were many other, more prudent ways he could have invested his savings over the years than putting it all into a single companys stock, like buying shares in a mutual fund. He had bought some of his A.T. & T. stock with borrowed money, which he should not have done.
Hes the backbone of the country, the everyman who plays by the rules, the hardworking dad that delays his own gratification for the family, Steve Bannon told the Journal. People like that were often treated like dirt during the early Gilded Age days of industrial capitalism in America; that situation was corrected by an expanded federal government, and Marty Bannon was the beneficiary. He lived under a social compact that was created during the two liberal heydays of the first half of the twentieth century, the Progressive Era and the New Deal, and that shaped the lives of many millions of Americans. Beginning in 1913, A.T. & T. was a heavily regulated, government-sanctioned monopoly. It was able to provide the rock-solid stability that the elder Bannon remembers because it had no competitors but did have passive and widely dispersed investors (for decades, A.T. & T. had by far the highest number of individual stockholders of any American company), as well as the heavy hand of the state pushing it to treat its employees generously, through unionization and other means.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,916 posts)AT&T stock was as good as gold for a very long time. And if Marty Bannon had been buying it steadily over a period of years, he'd have had a great deal of money in that stock. Plus, the fact that it paid a healthy dividend meant he was an idiot to sell it. Of course, if at that point he owned a lot of that stock on margin (meaning he'd borrowed money to buy it) he was an even bigger idiot. Especially if he was 95 years old at the time.
Nonetheless, if Marty Bannon's only position in the stock market was in AT&T stock he was an idiot a third time around.
I do feel very sorry for people like the Enron employees who, if I recall correctly, could only put their 401k into company stock. Those people were totally screwed through no fault of their own.
You also hear stories of a couple both working for the same company and putting all of their investment money into the company stock. Bad idea.
Bengus81
(6,936 posts)Then of course this will happen. I mentioned it several times months ago (no big bounce for the Drumph tax cut) but was shot down as ...oh big deal,it only dropped 1%. Yeah well the disaster in 1929 didn't happen in one or two days but actually started small in the summer of 29--and then came October.
As the stock market recovered SLOWLY under Obama there were a couple of big correction days BUT,there was something there to hang your hat on,such as a recovering economy from the brink of the second Great Depression,increased employment,bank failures slowing and then stopping.
This Trump BS rise that started the day after he was elected again has been rising on nothing but AIR--all of it HOT.
Cosmocat
(14,575 posts)Market was maxing out toward the end of BHOs term, should have flattened, but cons being the children they are went on a 45 sugar high.
doc03
(35,389 posts)You will have to pay tax when you cash out of your IRA then when the market returns your funds in the
Roth will recover the taxes you paid. I did that back in 2009 and more than regained the tax I paid by the end of the year.
machI
(1,285 posts)SWBTATTReg
(22,176 posts)real estate on the cheap...
He did it before and bragged about it.
DeminPennswoods
(15,290 posts)funds sold off holdings at then end of 2017 to capture capital gains.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,916 posts)First is that the market is long, long overdue for a correction.
The other is that almost all of the buying and selling is done through computer algorithms, so once the Dow starts dropping, the sell orders are multiplied, causing more drop and so on. For reasons I don't understand this is far more obvious on the down side than on the up side, although it should work more or less equally in each direction.
unblock
(52,387 posts)if there's a surge in buy orders and prices go up, it's always possible to find sellers happy to take a profit and worried that the run-up might be a blip. so the sellers keep prices from going up like crazy.
if there's a surge in sell orders and prices go down, very few people step in and try to catch the falling knife.
lacking buyers, prices go down even more, which makes people even more reluctant to buy, and the vicious cycle can make prices go down a whole lot in a big hurry.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,916 posts)Being fully invested can likewise be a bad idea, because then you don't have cash to buy when the prices drop.