Deputy fatally shoots 16-year-old boy in Ohio courtroom, authorities say

[groundloop]

Source: CBS News

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- A deputy fatally shot a 16-year-old boy in an Ohio courtroom when a fight broke out involving the teen, his family and the officer on Wednesday, a sheriff's office investigator said. The teen, Joseph Haynes, was struck once in the abdomen during the fight that began as an early afternoon hearing concluded in a domestic relations courtroom in Columbus, said Rick Minerd, investigations chief with the Franklin County Sheriff's Office. Haynes died about 30 minutes later at a nearby downtown hospital.

Events unfolded as a judge wrapped up a hearing involving a firearms charge against the boy and an electronic monitoring device the court assigned him earlier in the case, Minerd said.

"At some point as the hearing was concluding, there was an altercation that ensued involving the deputy and some of the family members," Minerd said. He added later the boy also was involved.

{snip}

Keith Ferrell, executive vice president for the police union that represents the deputy, said the deputy was "violently attacked by multiple people" and had visible injuries including cuts, abrasions, and a possible black eye. He said the deputy was in a "fight for his life" when he opened fire.

Read more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/franklin-county-ohio-deputy-fatally-shoots-teen-in-ohio-courtroom-authorities-say/

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Police departments MUST do a better job of screening before they hire officers and do a better job of training them. I've witnessed situations which very well could have become a mess but the officer was able to calmly and professionally deal with it before it escalated. It sounds like this deputy had an authority complex and lost his cool when the teen wouldn't comply with his orders - totally senseless.

[Sailor65x1]

1. "It sounds like this deputy had an authority complex"

You see evidence of this where in the article?

[Archae]

2. The deputy was attacked FIRST!

I've seen videos of family members attacking deputies, judges, DA's, lawyers, and defendants.

It looks like (so far that is,) the family's precious little boy who could do no wrong was a punk, so the deputy reacted to being attacked.

[left-of-center2012]

3. From the linked article ...

“... there was an altercation that ensued involving the deputy and some of the family members," ... the boy also was involved.

... the teen grew upset when the deputy threatened to arrest him ... the teen was also upset by a judge's order that he continue to wear an electronic monitoring device.

... the deputy was "violently attacked by multiple people" and had visible injuries including cuts, abrasions, and a possible black eye. He said the deputy was in a "fight for his life" when he opened fire.
The deputy was knocked to the ground and fired a shot ...

(the teen) had been charged with aggravated menacing after he pointed a handgun at two people, threatening to shoot them.
“... this individual has a violent past, and I think his behavior that day indicated that as well."
...................................................

Obviously the cop should have allowed the family to beat him to a bloody pulp and then handed out lollipops,
thanking them for their participation in the court proceedings.

[mr_lebowski]

5. Unless there's evidence that the kid was armed (which is unlikely given the setting) ...

I personally feel it's incumbent upon LEO's to at least attempt a non-lethal means of subduing an attacker. Did he not have a Taser, or at least Pepper Spray?

If NOT, why the hell did he not?

If SO, did he attempt to use them first, to no avail?

If I, as a private citizen, couldn't get away with shooting someone w/o repercussions based on the level of threat at hand, then a cop shouldn't be able to either ...

[jberryhill]

8. IMHO there is no use speculating about the scant details in the article

"Subduing an attacker" is a much more melodious phrase than events often suggest.

Presumably a judge was present.

[christx30]

16. Why didn't the teen just calm down and not attack someone?

Why didn't his family stay out of it? After all of the stories that have come out in the past 50 years of people that attack cops getting shot, why didn't anyone in the room consider that a possibility? Do you know any situation where attacking someone that is armed and trained is a good idea? The teen is a criminal. He didn't want to abide by the terms. The family are criminals. They deserve to be charged in assault on the deputy.
And the attacker doesn't have to be armed. If you are outnumbered, or there is a gulf in the physical strength between attacker and the victim, the victim is allowed to use deadly force to stop the attack.
There's a video out there of a female deputy that pulled over a guy with warrants and she decides to arrest him for them. She looks like she's 5'8" or so, weighs less than 150. He's 6 foot easy, looks like over 200. He turns around and punches her in the face. She falls, and he keeps attacking her. Even though he's not armed, she would be 100% within her rights to shoot him. But she didn't get a chance in that situation. He nearly killed her.

[kaotikross]

30. well that crook is a dirty fink.

Most honorable crooks won't hit a lady cop, you just don't do it. I'm not saying all, but most. Actually, most honorable crooks won't even fight or give any trouble once caught, they know it's quicker and better to just do as told, keep completely quiet, and get to the station as quickly as possible so they can use the phone for bail money. Even if it's a major charge, all you do by fighting is get more charges and look like a friggin menace who can't be trusted if out on bail. You can pretty much give up on a recognizance bond, not gonna happen- and the jail would really rather cut you loose, because to them, you're work. You gotta be fed, let in and out for visitation, commissary, gym or whatever, and they'd much rather just sit around surfing the web and chuckle-fucking back and forth all day. You also cost em for every day you're in there. Just go quietly, and by quietly, i mean say nothing past yes or no.

[jl_theprofessor]

21. Let me ease your conscience

In multiple states, as a private citizen, you are allowed to shoot at someone who attacks you without fear of repercussion.

[NickB79]

27. If events unfolded as claimed, he was justified in using lethal force

Multiple people attacking an officer at once means that, should they overwhelm him, they can take his firearm. This isn't a theoretical fear; a sizeable percentage of officer deaths are by their own firearms taken in a struggle.

Hopefully though, someone has video of the event to seeing what the union rep claims is actually true.

[7962]

31. One Taser doesnt do much when you're being attacked by several. Gunshots will scatter everyone.

I believe you WOULD "get away" with shooting one meter of a group who were attacking you; especially if you had the injuries to prove it. I've seen it in public cases before, even when there was only ONE attacker.

[Judi Lynn]

18. Are we to imagine the only alternative to handing out lollipops is murder? Maybe not. n/t

[left-of-center2012]

20. You are correct !

The cop could not allow that family to murder him !

[groundloop]

23. the quote about "in a fight for his life" came from the police union rep

OF COURSE he'd make a dramatic statement to support the cop. Where the officer screwed up, IMO, was by charging in like a barney badass and demanding immediate compliance. A more skillful officer would have defused the situation and never let it escalate to the point that it did.

[Blue_Adept]

4. More binary choices

This kind of thinking is just everywhere. Either the cop must get beaten or the cop must shoot the kid.

There are no other avenues?

[Judi Lynn]

19. Not for infantile people who are the center of their own universes.

It is a shock to discover how many adult-sized people can't negotiate the process of maturing beyond the lowest level of human emotional experience. They stay behind, inwardly, as they walk among us.

[Plucketeer]

24. With MULTIPLE people involved

How can we know if someone was trying to hijack the detective's gun and it (the gun) was accidentally triggered in the scuffle.

I'm not a law enforcement officer, but if I were to be jumped by multiple assailants, be damned if I'd just go limp in hopes the attackers might take mercy on me! I imagine this deputy has folks that like to have him home when his day's work is done.

[jberryhill]

6. What is your source of information for - lost his cool when the teen wouldn't comply

" It sounds like this deputy had an authority complex and lost his cool when the teen wouldn't comply with his orders "

It doesn't sound like that at all.

It says that an altercation broke out among family members.

Domestic relations courts are not strangers to violence done by persons who appear in them.

[atreides1]

9. Actually the story said...

"At some point as the hearing was concluding, there was an altercation that ensued involving the deputy and some of the family members," Minerd said. He added later the boy also was involved."

"Haynes' lawyer, Jennifer Brisco, told the Columbus Dispatch that the teen grew upset when the deputy threatened to arrest him."

There is the chance that the deputy could have said something that upset someone besides the teen, maybe the family members were upset and the deputy tried to calm the situation down! Maybe the deputy threatening to arrest the teen, was the catalyst?

There are several ways that this could have happened...hopefully there were cameras in the courtroom that caught the action!

[jberryhill]

10. Any number of things may have happened

I would not rely on either the person's lawyer or the police union lawyer to necessarily convey the most objective interpretation of the facts.

There often are cameras. Try "courtroom fight" as a search on YouTube.

[7962]

32. That shows just how much trouble ONE guy could be for THREE officers; 2 of them fairly big guys.

And how long it took to really get him under control
I can imagine if there was an entire family involved in an incident like that and no backup arriving fast enough.

[atreides1]

7. Two questions

What started the altercation?

Who started the altercation?

[Texin]

11. Without being physically present as a witness

it's impossible to determine from this report whether the officer was justified or not. ICYMI, the article specifically stated that the teen involved and who was to be issued a security tracking cuff had been "involved in a weapons altercation" and that was the reason for the monitor to begin with. The officer may well have felt he was indeed in a fight for his life or for those of the other family members and the people in the courtroom, especially if he felt the teen could conceivably get his hands on the officer's weapon, which is always a fear of police in such an altercation. Things can get out of control pretty quickly and it sounds as if it did.

[Raine1967]

12. From a personal friend who works there:

It wasn't in a courtroom. It was in a side hallway, a narrow space. One deputy and multiple family members of the child. They were there because the mother started a ruckus in the courtroom, wouldn't stop, and refused when told by deputy to leave.

I have been told that the mother continued in the hallway, the problem was between her and the deputy, who was surrounded by family members (no word that they were threatening), and the child jumped on the deputy's back.

It hasn't all come out yet and I'm not judging what happened yet. I would caution others not to rush to conclusions. Generally, the deputies in that court do an excellent job at deescalating hot situations.

[7962]

33. hopefully theres video in that hallway. That would settle this debate. nt

[Judi Lynn]

13. Video of the deceased's grandmother describing the situation in the courtroom:

From: Joseph Haynes: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
https://heavy.com/news/2018/01/joseph-haynes-shooting/

[samir.g]

28. she looks like a tweeker

[Iggo]

14. Video.

[Shrike47]

15. I have been in court on several occasions where parties and their families got violent.

By and large, deputies do a good job maintaining order. It’s a difficult and scary job on occasion. If you have had little personal experience with people who go out of control, you may not be able to imagine how bad it can be, and how little time there may be to make decisions.

I spent decades working termination of parental rights cases. There are some crappy parents out there.

[Ferrets are Cool]

17. A very disturbing video of this incident. nt

[jl_theprofessor]

22. Looks more like white people

thinking their privilege excludes them from having to follow rules.

[Kaleva]

25. Looks to me like that white family reaped what it sowed. I have no sympathy for them.

[Botany]

26. I was talking to a Columbus, OH police officer last night about this sad event ....

... and what I was told was that the kid was going for the deputy's gun.

[kaotikross]

29. the fact is

That nowdays cops cant go hand to hand. It's that simple. Many are fat and only pass the physical exam with a wink from the Department Doctor. They know it, too, which is why they're so quick to go for the gun. They'll get physical all right, when the suspect is handcuffed and cannot fight back.
In my youth they'd fight a guy. Sometimes fairly, usually multiple cops versus one drunk but they'd still toss it up, now they don't even try, no baton work because they don't train with it and aren't any good unlike older cops who could hurt you so bad with a side handle pr-24 you wish you'd never heard of police. More than one cop back in the day would just use a blackjack on your hands, arms, or head and if you think that wouldn't stop you- think again. Now the police are soft, but they're still police and like always, on a power trip. Power tripping cops are gonna power trip, and now days that usually means a corpse at the end of the situation.