Washington's growing obsession: The 25th Amendment
Source: Politico
Lawmakers concerned about President Donald Trumps mental state summoned Yale University psychiatry professor Dr. Bandy X. Lee to Capitol Hill last month for two days of briefings about his recent behavior.
In private meetings with more than a dozen members of Congress held on Dec. 5 and 6, Lee briefed lawmakers all Democrats except for one Republican senator, whom Lee declined to identify. Her professional warning to Capitol Hill: Hes going to unravel, and we are seeing the signs.
In an interview, she pointed to Trump going back to conspiracy theories, denying things he has admitted before, his being drawn to violent videos. Lee also warned, We feel that the rush of tweeting is an indication of his falling apart under stress. Trump is going to get worse and will become uncontainable with the pressures of the presidency.
The conversation about Trumps fitness to serve is ongoing and gaining steam after Trumps tweet this week taunting the leader of North Korea with my-nuclear-button-is-bigger-than-yours bravado.
Read more: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/03/trump-25th-amendment-mental-health-322625
global1
(25,270 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,036 posts)onenote
(42,759 posts)Impeachment requires 1/2 of House and 2/3 of Senate.
25th Amendment requires 2/3 of both.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,036 posts)You are correct if the President objects to removal, which might be likely. However even tRump might be able to read the writing on the wall, in which case a majority of the cabinet can do it.
However, even if tRump forces a 2/3 vote, it might still be easiest on the GOP brand because impeachment and subsequent conviction in the Senate has the stain of wrongdoing.
25th'ing simply says "the man is ill" and admits no wrongdoing.
But of course if Mueller is doing the full and complete job we think he is doing, then it might all be moot and then impeachment would be the easiest on the GOP brand.
Grammy23
(5,813 posts)Sadly, they have been so misled by tRump and others that unless he has a complete meltdown, live on camera, they wont trust any news reports regarding his failing mental state. There could be a considerable portion of the population, although not necessarily tRump supporters, who may have trouble understanding the gravity of the situation. Severe mental issues are hard enough to understand and comprehend when you have basic knowledge of the problem. tRump is so skilled at putting on a game face (while raging behind the scenes) that it will take video proof of his unraveling, I believe, for a sizable number of people to get it.....that he is totally and irrevocably unsuited for the office. And THAT frightens me, too.
IthinkThereforeIAM
(3,077 posts)... and that is why I feel this is just, "talk". They will not do a thing. That is why all the clingons in the Der Dingleberry® universe are being picked off as you read this. Manafort, Flynn...
And then he will resign on his own.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,036 posts)IthinkThereforeIAM
(3,077 posts)... they will do anything for a buck, you know.
elleng
(131,102 posts)question everything
(47,534 posts)Not allowing the housekeeper to touch his brush?
And, I don't worry. He will have a public meltdown.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)It's obvious when you look at his bloated orange corpse-like appearance.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)I wanna see Donny Two Scoops have a meltdown!
onit2day
(1,201 posts)melm00se
(4,994 posts)I don't know, actually READ the 25th Amendment.
Bearing that in mind, here is the text of the 25th Amendment:
Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
Section 3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.
Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
The salient portion for removing the President is Section 4 so lets distill this section down:
What is needed to start the process?
The Vice President and the majority of the executive departments (or other body as established by Congress) notifies the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House that the President is unable to discharge the duties of the office of the President.
OK, they did that, now what?
The Vice President assumes the role of President until such time as the President notifies President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House that the President is able to discharge the Presidential duties and upon doing so, the President is back being the President again.
What happens if the Vice President and the majority of the executive departments (or other body as established by Congress) disagree with the President?
The process starts all over again. The Vice President and the majority of the executive departments (or other body as established by Congress) notifies the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House that the President, despite his notification, is still unable to perform Presidential duties.
OK, the second notification was sent, now what?
Congress then will act to decide the issue. If Congress is in session, they have 48 hours to assemble and start the process (see next section) or, if not in session, 21 days to assemble.
The Avengers...oops, the House and Senate have assembled
If, after debating the issue, a vote is called for and if 2/3's of the House AND 2/3's of the Senate vote agreeing with the Vice President et al, the President is removed from office. If that threshold is not met, then the President stays.
Wait...2/3s of both the House AND Senate? Isn't that a steeper requirement slope than simple impeachment?
Well done grasshopper! Yes, it certainly is. To remove via impeachment requires only a simple majority in the House and a 2/3s vote in the Senate.
So why the steeper requirement?
This process was never intended to be used as a palace coup by the president's advisers to remove the President nor was it intended to replace the existing impeachment process thus the steeper requirements.
This section (#4) of the Amendment was put in because of 2 20th century Presidential issues and a Constitutional ommission:
Woodrow Wilson
On September 25, 1919, Wilson collapsed from the last of a series of strokes. He was incapacitated and unable to perform his presidential duties (which is one of the reasons that the League of Nations didn't pass as Wilson couldn't take direct action to secure its passage). His wife, essentially, directed presidential policy when, it would have been better if the Vice President had done so.
John F Kennedy
There was some concern, post assassination, what if Kennedy had survived his head wound but been in a persistent vegetative state? Who would have had the Constitutional authority to act as President?
Ommission
Until the 25th Amendment, the only ways that the Presidential office changed hands were via:
- Election
- Death
- Impeachment
As such, after being faced with Wilson and Kennedy, Congress and the states concluded that there had to be a 4th way in case of permanent presidential disability so along came the 25th Amendment.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,600 posts)WHOA
Link to tweet
Lawmakers got a two-day briefing in December from a psychiatrist about Trumps mental stateTWO DAYS
Link to tweet
By Kerry Eleveld
Wednesday Jan 03, 2018 · 10:16 PM EST
Capitol Hill lawmakers are reportedly harboring a "growing obsession" with the 25th Amendment following Donald Trumps nuclear button meltdown this week. The renewed interest comes after a bipartisan cohort sought out advice last month from a Yale psychiatrist, Dr. Bandy X. Lee, who has been sounding the alarm bells about Donald Trump's mental state for months. Politicos Annie Karni writes:
In private meetings with more than a dozen members of Congress held on Dec. 5 and 6, Lee briefed lawmakers all Democrats except for one Republican senator, who Lee declined to identify. Her professional warning to Capitol Hill: Hes going to unravel, and we are seeing the signs.
In an interview, she pointed to Trump going back to conspiracy theories, denying things he has admitted before, his being drawn to violent videos. Lee also warned, We feel that the rush of tweeting is an indication of his falling apart under stress. Trump is going to get worse and will become uncontainable with the pressures of the presidency.
Lee, editor of The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump, which includes testimonials from 27 psychiatrists and mental health experts assessing the presidents level of dangerousness, said that she was surprised by the interest in her findings during her two days in Washington. One senator said that it was the meeting he most looked forward to in 11 years, Lee recalled. Their level of concern about the presidents dangerousness was surprisingly high.