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brooklynite

(94,679 posts)
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 12:31 PM Dec 2017

Amtrak train derails from bridge onto Interstate 5 near Olympia

Source: Seattle Times

An Amtrak train derailed and fell off a bridge over Interstate 5 near Mounts Road between Lakewood and Olympia.

Interstate 5 is completely closed in both directions and dozens of first responders are headed that way, according to the Washington State Department of Transportation.


It’s not yet known if there are injuries, officials said.

Amtrak tweeted that it was train No. 501 in its inaugural run that derailed.

Read more: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/train-derails-from-bridge-onto-interstate-5-near-olympia/



Pierce County Sheriff's office: "casualties and injuries"




98 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Amtrak train derails from bridge onto Interstate 5 near Olympia (Original Post) brooklynite Dec 2017 OP
Prayers for all aboard the train Abouttime Dec 2017 #1
Trainorders: Passenger Trains Amtrak Cascades Derails onto I-5 mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #2
Train was apparently already 30 min late travelling between Seattle and Tacoma... brooklynite Dec 2017 #5
Awful shenmue Dec 2017 #3
And during the morning commute--people heading into Olympia from the Seattle/Tacoma area. Mrs. Overall Dec 2017 #4
Most of the commuters GeorgeHayduke Dec 2017 #25
Thanks for this info. I'm also hearing from news that there were no fatalities in cars/trucks-- Mrs. Overall Dec 2017 #27
That rail GeorgeHayduke Dec 2017 #30
That's a new section that's away from the water Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2017 #57
Its been there forever. GeorgeHayduke Dec 2017 #85
If you've driven by there recently then you would have seen the new track being laid down Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2017 #86
Moved about five years ago. GeorgeHayduke Dec 2017 #88
I'm one of those that GP6971 Dec 2017 #89
I drove that stretch GeorgeHayduke Dec 2017 #92
Now the North bound lanes can back GP6971 Dec 2017 #93
That's what it was like before I fled GeorgeHayduke Dec 2017 #96
I live just a few miles from there gopiscrap Dec 2017 #6
What a tragedy. Scarsdale Dec 2017 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author mobeau69 Dec 2017 #7
Safety concerns had been voiced by a local Mayor prior to opening this route Tom Rinaldo Dec 2017 #8
This is starting to look real bad. icymist Dec 2017 #9
Per NBC, this was the first time train used this route in effort to shave running time... brooklynite Dec 2017 #10
$800 million? Abouttime Dec 2017 #16
Inaugural run on the new route. The old one periodically had rocks or uppityperson Dec 2017 #40
New photos: there is a train car flat on the freeway below the dangling car-- Mrs. Overall Dec 2017 #11
Oh gosh I hadnt noticed that. MissB Dec 2017 #14
Overturned, too. It's lying on its roof. NT mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #17
Sheriffs office confirms fatalities, people trapped after train derailment on I-5 icymist Dec 2017 #12
And today's "Word of the Day", boyz and girlz...! Grins Dec 2017 #13
This was the end of an $800 million rail infrastructure program on this line OnlinePoker Dec 2017 #26
This was the inaugral run on this track. It's new uppityperson Dec 2017 #41
NEW infrastructure, in fact. Dreamer Tatum Dec 2017 #58
UPDATE: Fatalities, people trapped... brooklynite Dec 2017 #15
That south bound lane of I-5 will be closed, probably all day. icymist Dec 2017 #18
Much longer than "all day" brooklynite Dec 2017 #20
Washington is so dear to my heart Kittycow Dec 2017 #21
New photos from Pierce County Sheriff brooklynite Dec 2017 #22
So awful. janx Dec 2017 #23
KOMO TV-3 to 4 additional railcars derailed on opposite side of tracks. brooklynite Dec 2017 #24
Amtrak provides phone number for people with questions icymist Dec 2017 #28
Here's local news feed OnlinePoker Dec 2017 #29
Donald Trump and the GOP Congress are 100% responsible for this disaster Fluke a Snooker Dec 2017 #31
That's really a stretch, and you know it. NT mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #32
This was the inaugral run on this track. It's new. uppityperson Dec 2017 #43
No but Trump is already trying to make political hay from it Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2017 #59
If people had been SHOT on that train, it would be too soon to talk about it. More_Cowbell Dec 2017 #82
You're right Abouttime Dec 2017 #64
This was the inaugral run on this track. It's new, been working on it for 7 yrs uppityperson Dec 2017 #73
LOL! Id sure like to hear the details on how to eliminate the GOP. Marengo Dec 2017 #94
The twitterverse is saying the train was going 80+ mph on tracks posted for 30... brooklynite Dec 2017 #33
Hashtag? janx Dec 2017 #34
Do a search for "Amtrak" and "30" and you'll hit a couple... brooklynite Dec 2017 #35
tnx janx Dec 2017 #38
This is from a local train engineer with knowledge of the rules and regs OnlinePoker Dec 2017 #39
Thank you. janx Dec 2017 #45
OMG those tracks are NOT meant for those speeds. importDavid Dec 2017 #36
WSDOT claims the track was upgraded to 79 mph... brooklynite Dec 2017 #44
Very Sad Stuart G Dec 2017 #37
After about an hour watching "expert" Mary Schiavo on CNN mobeau69 Dec 2017 #42
The engine pushes it going south and pulls it going north. janx Dec 2017 #46
Yeah, I know. The question is why couldn't the experts on tv figure it out? n/t mobeau69 Dec 2017 #48
Never been on a passenger train? janx Dec 2017 #50
No, the operating engine is in the middle of I-5, TheCowsCameHome Dec 2017 #51
You're right. n/t mobeau69 Dec 2017 #54
Wow, that *is* an engine down there! janx Dec 2017 #65
I don't know why the blue Amtrak #181 would be pushing. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2017 #66
It might just have been headed back to Portland for power balancing. mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #68
..Or perhaps insurance on an "Inaugural Run" TheCowsCameHome Dec 2017 #71
I had to enlarge the size of the page and examine it closely. mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #67
I dunno! janx Dec 2017 #78
You sound knowledgeable. murielm99 Dec 2017 #60
My dad was a fireman and an engineer. Proud member of the BLFE mobeau69 Dec 2017 #87
You nailed it! Abouttime Dec 2017 #72
Again, that's really a stretch, and you know it. NT mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #80
This was the inaugral run on this track. It's new, been working on it for 7 yrs uppityperson Dec 2017 #83
Aerial view... brooklynite Dec 2017 #47
The lead locomotive is above the word "Breaking" TheCowsCameHome Dec 2017 #52
I've been looking at the aerial view. mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #56
Probably $3mil worth if scrap iron at this point, TheCowsCameHome Dec 2017 #61
From the one picture I've seen, the aerial view here, there's not much damage to it. mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #62
Right. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2017 #63
That is the first aerial photo I have seen. Thanks unfortunately that gives a better idea of how lunasun Dec 2017 #69
Carried too much speed?? Blue_Tires Dec 2017 #75
Apparently the tracks were designed to accommodate 79 mph speed brooklynite Dec 2017 #77
Death toll up to 6 now. Associated Press, via the Vancouver (WA) Columbian: mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #49
Conductor's emergency transmission to Command Center brooklynite Dec 2017 #53
Vibes. applegrove Dec 2017 #55
Washington state DOT: Our statement on today's Amtrak Cascades derailment. mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #70
Interesting, I didn't know Sound Transit owned any ROW brooklynite Dec 2017 #76
Me either. I just read that in the statement. I made an edit in reply #2 accordingly. NT mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #79
Holy damn.. Blue_Tires Dec 2017 #74
The NTSB report will take a least a year to complete TheCowsCameHome Dec 2017 #81
There was an ugly head-on at Longview back in 1993. Veterans Day, maybe. I'll look it up. mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #84
I remember that one well. Gore1FL Dec 2017 #90
Here's a map of the area of the derailment Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2017 #91
Amtrak train was traveling at 80 mph in 30 mph zone, NTSB says Baclava Dec 2017 #95
DuPont curve where Amtrak derailed long known as problem for high-speed train alignment mahatmakanejeeves Jan 2018 #97
NTSB Releases Amtrak #501 Prelim Report mahatmakanejeeves Jan 2018 #98
 

Abouttime

(675 posts)
1. Prayers for all aboard the train
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 12:33 PM
Dec 2017

And damn you tRump and republicans, trillions in giveaways to the already rich and nothing for infrastructure!

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,570 posts)
2. Trainorders: Passenger Trains Amtrak Cascades Derails onto I-5
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 12:33 PM
Dec 2017

Last edited Thu Dec 21, 2017, 06:26 PM - Edit history (11)

This is the BNSF line that runs from Portland, Oregon, up through Vancouver, Washington, and on through Seattle.

* * * * *

Edit, 3:56 p.m.: ex-BNSF tracks, now owned by Sound Transit. See:

Our statement on today's Amtrak Cascades derailment.



* * * * *

Passenger Trains > Amtrak Cascades Derails onto I-5

Here's one reply:

Date: 12/18/17 08:29
Re: Amtrak Cascades Derails onto I-5
Author: SunsetLtd

Was watching it on transitdocs when it happened. Was going 81.6 mph just prior to the derailment site crossing I-5, Don't know the specifics of the bypass yet but looking at google maps is that curve good for that speed? Looks rather sharp. Of course it's been moved off train tracker now, I know the talgos can take curves at higher speeds but what about the engines?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/17 08:31 by SunsetLtd.

Transitdocs: Amtrak/VIA Real Time Train Location Map

Pierce County Washington Live Audio Feeds

Law enforcement, BNSF, Fire and Rescue, etc.

Twitter feed from someone on the train:

@TacomaTransit (Chris Karnes)

Additional Twitter accounts and other links:

At least 3 dead after Amtrak train derails from bridge onto Interstate 5 near Olympia

Originally published December 18, 2017 at 8:07 am Updated December 18, 2017 at 9:50 am

By Joseph O'Sullivan, Evan Bush and Christine Clarridge
Seattle Times staff reporters

....
Joseph O'Sullivan

Evan Bush:
206-464-2253 or ebush@seattletimes.com; on Twitter: @EvanBush.

Christine Clarridge: 206-464-8983 or cclarridge@seattletimes.com; on Twitter: @c_clarridge.

One of the trainsets last Friday. I don't know if it was this one that derailed.

{Edited, Thursday, 12-21-2017, at 5:24 p.m. This locomotive, the 1402, was the lead unit. I do not know if the trainset in the picture was still coupled to the 1402 when the derailment occurred.}

All aboard! Starting Monday these trains will arrive and
depart at our new Amtrak Cascades Tacoma Dome Station 🚉 in Freighthouse Square. Check out our new schedule here. http://bit.ly/2AIlg8R



Other threads:

Passenger Trains > Why Did Amtrak 501 Derail ?

Passenger Trains > Amtrak Cascades crash pix

Western Railroad Discussion > Amtrak blocking I-5 South of Joint Base Lewis McChord

Pt. Defiance Bypass Project

brooklynite

(94,679 posts)
5. Train was apparently already 30 min late travelling between Seattle and Tacoma...
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 12:37 PM
Dec 2017

Heading to Portland. Might have been trying to make up time?


GeorgeHayduke

(1,227 posts)
25. Most of the commuters
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:31 PM
Dec 2017

Are headed north to JBLM from Oly and surrounding bedroom communities. The Nisqually hill is notorious for backups headed through the base.


Every train I've ever seen on that bridge is at a crawl.

Mrs. Overall

(6,839 posts)
27. Thanks for this info. I'm also hearing from news that there were no fatalities in cars/trucks--
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:33 PM
Dec 2017

injuries, but no one killed in cars on the freeway.

This might change, but for now, it is good news.

GeorgeHayduke

(1,227 posts)
30. That rail
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 02:03 PM
Dec 2017

Gets shut at least once a year due to landslides. A derailment on that sketchy overpass doesn't surprise me though. It'll be interesting to hear the cause.

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(108,136 posts)
57. That's a new section that's away from the water
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 03:42 PM
Dec 2017

It runs along I-5 through Tacoma.

So far they believe the train was going too fast. It's a thirty mile an hour speed limit at that curve.

GeorgeHayduke

(1,227 posts)
85. Its been there forever.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 06:25 PM
Dec 2017

I've driven under it thousands of times. This was its first public use. Nice to see it got some new graffiti since I've been away though.

Speed wouldn't surprise me.

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(108,136 posts)
86. If you've driven by there recently then you would have seen the new track being laid down
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 06:29 PM
Dec 2017

You're correct the bridge and the route is old.

GP6971

(31,199 posts)
89. I'm one of those that
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 08:52 PM
Dec 2017

has commuted from DuPont to Olympia for the last 15 years. The last 5 years have been brutal for the northbound commuters.

I breezed home tonight...but everyone was really slowing down and it looking at it. It was a mess, but heavy lift cranes were arriving as I went by.

GeorgeHayduke

(1,227 posts)
92. I drove that stretch
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 12:24 AM
Dec 2017

From 1992 to 2014, but mostly after I expanded my teaching from the TESC Oly campus to the Tacoma campus on odd quarters. In the evenings, coming down the Lacy slope into the Nisqually hollow was always brakelights.

Now I live and commute in places like L.A., Dallas, Boston and Kansas City.

I'd kill for the DuPont commute to Hillside any day now.

On edit: I remember November 2011 I burned-up a clutch in JBLM traffic on my way to I90 trying to battle a snowy Snoqualmie Pass to visit my dad in Wenatchee.

GP6971

(31,199 posts)
93. Now the North bound lanes can back
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 12:42 AM
Dec 2017

up to 111, Hawks Prairie. And it can be slow getting to Hawks Prairie. You used to be able to go around at Nisqually and get back on at Mounts road via the Old Pacific Highway but that option is out.

This area has grown so much it's unbelievable.

GeorgeHayduke

(1,227 posts)
96. That's what it was like before I fled
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 09:50 AM
Dec 2017

The rain. Mounts road is nothing but a speed trap. It seems to me the only way around the area is stil either through Spanaway and Yelm on 607/510 or take the Narrows and 101 through Shelton.

For the next couple of months I live in Monterey, CA. Traffic here is fine, but the cost of living is exorbitant. Phoenix is my favorite city.

gopiscrap

(23,763 posts)
6. I live just a few miles from there
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 12:43 PM
Dec 2017

that highway that the train fell on is really crowded at that time of the Monday. I am checking with friends to see if they're all ok

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
19. What a tragedy.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:08 PM
Dec 2017

I hope all the people you know are safe. Terrifying to have something this horrifying occur. I hope that any casualties are few and not too serious. Good thoughts going out to all involved.

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
8. Safety concerns had been voiced by a local Mayor prior to opening this route
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 12:48 PM
Dec 2017

"The mayor of Lakewood believes it is just a matter of time before these high speed trains kill someone. He asked the DOT presenters to do better. Mayor Don Anderson said grade separations – such as overpasses – should be included to keep trains away from cars and pedestrians.

“Come back when there is that accident, and try to justify not putting in those safety enhancements, or you can go back now and advocate for the money to do it, because this project was never needed and endangers our citizens,” Anderson said."

Lakewood mayor predicts deadly accidents from high-speed train service
http://komonews.com/news/local/lakewood-mayor-predicts-deadly-accidents-from-high-speed-train-service

NOTE: I do not know if the concerns that the Mayor voiced had anything to do with the cause of this derailment.

brooklynite

(94,679 posts)
10. Per NBC, this was the first time train used this route in effort to shave running time...
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 12:53 PM
Dec 2017
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Rail/PNWRC_PtDefiance/default.htm

Start date announced for service expansion; use of Point Defiance Bypass route

Amtrak Cascades' new service schedule will start Dec. 18, which is also the start of the trains running on the Point Defiance Bypass route and the opening of the new Tacoma Dome Station in Freighthouse Square. The new schedule adds two more daily roundtrips between Seattle and Portland, cuts travel time and improves on-time reliability. It also marks the end of the nearly $800 million Cascades High-Speed Rail Capital Program.
 

Abouttime

(675 posts)
16. $800 million?
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:03 PM
Dec 2017

That's just a small fraction of the money needed to safely upgrade Amtrak.
Damn these Republican criminals putting people's lives on the line all for saving a few dollars.

uppityperson

(115,678 posts)
40. Inaugural run on the new route. The old one periodically had rocks or
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 02:46 PM
Dec 2017

landslides on the tracks as it went by a steep bluff.

icymist

(15,888 posts)
12. Sheriffs office confirms fatalities, people trapped after train derailment on I-5
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 12:57 PM
Dec 2017

8:48 a.m.

Sheriff’s office confirms fatalities, people trapped after train derailment on I-5.

8:47 a.m.

The service was supposed to be rated for a maximum speed of 79 mph for the section where it derailed in DuPont, according to passenger Chris Karnes. Karnes, who was on board the train when it derailed, said at least seven cars derailed from the tracks. The emergency doors were not functioning correctly, which forced passengers to kick out train windows to exit.

"We had just passed the city of DuPont and it seemed like we were going around a curve," Karnes said. "All of a sudden, we felt this rocking and creaking noise, and it felt like we were heading down a hill. The next thing we know, we're being slammed into the front of our seats, windows are breaking, we stop, and there's water gushing out of the train. People were screaming."
"The tracks for this line were supposed to be upgraded to be able to handle higher speeds," he continued. "I'm not sure what happened at this juncture."
http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/train-derails-onto-i-5-in-pierce-county-all-lanes-blocked/665619813

Grins

(7,226 posts)
13. And today's "Word of the Day", boyz and girlz...!
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:00 PM
Dec 2017
"Infrastructure!"

And think "Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta" while you're at it.

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
58. NEW infrastructure, in fact.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 03:46 PM
Dec 2017

There is little more tedious than "infrastructure!" being howled whenever fucking anything goes wrong.

brooklynite

(94,679 posts)
15. UPDATE: Fatalities, people trapped...
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:03 PM
Dec 2017

[link:Fatalities, people trapped after train derails onto I-5 near Lacey; all lanes blocked|KIRO-TV]:

8:59 a.m.

Several cars were hit by the train, but no deaths related to motorists.

8:54 a.m.

An up-close photo of the trail derailment near Lacey. Sheriff’s office confirms fatalities, people trapped. 70 people were on board, according to WSDOT. There's about three-miles of backup.

Kittycow

(2,396 posts)
21. Washington is so dear to my heart
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:18 PM
Dec 2017

as a lifelong Oregonian. My mother's side settled there around 1910.

My heart is just broken for the victims and their families plus other traumatized folk even down to the witnesses.

It couldn't have come at a worst time as well.



brooklynite

(94,679 posts)
22. New photos from Pierce County Sheriff
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:21 PM
Dec 2017


Train bogey ripped from railcar



Additional cars derail on opposite side of bridge

 

Fluke a Snooker

(404 posts)
31. Donald Trump and the GOP Congress are 100% responsible for this disaster
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 02:06 PM
Dec 2017

The GOP Congress has refused to increase infrastructure spending that would have completely prevented this disaster. Now Trump has not even lifted a finger to help, so the only solution to protect people, particularly non-white male individuals, is to eliminate the Republican Party. NOW.

uppityperson

(115,678 posts)
43. This was the inaugral run on this track. It's new.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 02:50 PM
Dec 2017

The old route went along a steep bluff and sometimes had rocks or land on the tracks.

This is new, first run with passengers. They've been working in this project since 2010.

 

Abouttime

(675 posts)
64. You're right
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:15 PM
Dec 2017

Nobody is safe in this upside down political world!
Disasters like this happen and all they're concerned with is TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH!!!
That money going to the rich should go to infrastructure, child care, homeless and disabled vets.

importDavid

(219 posts)
36. OMG those tracks are NOT meant for those speeds.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 02:22 PM
Dec 2017

Here's the location in Google Maps:

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.0820819,-122.6749252,3a,75y,278.68h,77.75t

The view is the road at the top right, facing Westbound <- towards the bridge.

If see the curvature of the tracks there is NO way it could stay on the rails...

Someone's head is gonna roll for this.

mobeau69

(11,152 posts)
42. After about an hour watching "expert" Mary Schiavo on CNN
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 02:48 PM
Dec 2017

she has said several times, when speculating about damage, that she didn't know if it was a push train or a pull train. They had an aerial view on the screen that showed the engine on the track. WTF? Don't they have access to Google earth at CNN or why not just reference the direction of the interstate that is shut down (or still open) below?

And why doesn't Blitzer ask:

1. Is there a fireman or just an engineer. Back in the 80's Reagan deregulation did away with the fireman on yard jobs but, by now, pukes may have allowed companies to do away with them on road jobs. Unions fought the change for years.

2. What did the train orders say? There is a history of crews being told to improvise on the orders (i.e. speed, picking up cars on sidings etc.) over their radios by company personnel located in a remote office somewhere.

janx

(24,128 posts)
46. The engine pushes it going south and pulls it going north.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 02:56 PM
Dec 2017

It was going south at the time, so the engine was pushing it.

TheCowsCameHome

(40,168 posts)
51. No, the operating engine is in the middle of I-5,
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 03:16 PM
Dec 2017

the blue one, #181, was on the rear probably just along for the ride.

janx

(24,128 posts)
65. Wow, that *is* an engine down there!
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:17 PM
Dec 2017

I was going by what I heard on local news there. They said the trains going south were pushed.

TheCowsCameHome

(40,168 posts)
66. I don't know why the blue Amtrak #181 would be pushing.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:20 PM
Dec 2017

With that brand new power on the point, I seriously doubt that it was being used alone, unless maybe it was being used in conjunction with the engine that's now in the road.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,570 posts)
68. It might just have been headed back to Portland for power balancing.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:32 PM
Dec 2017

There's nothing about the train length that would require it to be running.

TheCowsCameHome

(40,168 posts)
71. ..Or perhaps insurance on an "Inaugural Run"
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:40 PM
Dec 2017

There's not much more embarrassing than having a run-of-the-mill engine failure on Day 1 with a just a single unit.

Of course a tragedy like this is totally off the charts....

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,570 posts)
67. I had to enlarge the size of the page and examine it closely.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:30 PM
Dec 2017

It does look like some kind of fire company ladder truck, doesn't it? It went right over the guard rail, though.

janx

(24,128 posts)
78. I dunno!
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:54 PM
Dec 2017

I was expecting to see a control car because of the local push/pull talk, but that's an engine! I enlarged for a better look also.

murielm99

(30,754 posts)
60. You sound knowledgeable.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 03:53 PM
Dec 2017

My dad and brother were railroaders for years. I spent a summer working for the railroad, and issued train orders. Often those orders included areas where the trains had to slow down. Safety was paramount.

Many train dispatcher jobs were discontinued, and that work was done from locations thousands of miles away. No one could see immediate safety hazards.

I remember the fights over firemen. They are essential for safety, as far as I am concerned.

mobeau69

(11,152 posts)
87. My dad was a fireman and an engineer. Proud member of the BLFE
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 06:40 PM
Dec 2017

NYC, Penn Central and then it became Conrail.

 

Abouttime

(675 posts)
72. You nailed it!
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:41 PM
Dec 2017

We can trace this tragedy right back to Reagan and his goddamned tax cuts that killed the middle class!
Isn't it ironic that under another corrupt president we're once again being sold down the river with another tax cut for the rich!
Perhaps this tragedy caused by republican budget cuts and failure to invest in infrastructure will hold up the rush to pass this disaster of a tax bill.

brooklynite

(94,679 posts)
47. Aerial view...
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 03:03 PM
Dec 2017


That's the engine in the highway to the left of the tracks, three cars and the rear engine dangling on the right side of the tracks, two cars on the viaduct and the remainder just above the highway

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,570 posts)
56. I've been looking at the aerial view.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 03:26 PM
Dec 2017

It sort of has the look of firefighting equipment, but it's a locomotive. Firefighting equipment would not have run over the highway's guard rail. This equipment did.

There's something askew on the top, like a dynamic brake grid. I don't know.

The locomotive at the south (leading) end of the train was a new WSDOT Charger. Like this one:



Look for the slanted "T" painted on the side. It would have been occupied by the engine crew, however many people that is. Maybe an official or two on the first run.

Rail - Amtrak Cascades New Locomotives - Completed June 2017

Thanks for making me look more closely.

So many pictures you won't know what to do with them all:

Siemens Charger SC-44 (WSDOT/Amtrak Cascades)

TheCowsCameHome

(40,168 posts)
61. Probably $3mil worth if scrap iron at this point,
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 03:59 PM
Dec 2017

and those inaugural runs are usually top heavy with RR/state/Amtrak officials - A road foreman/ roadmaster at the very least. I think the loco was the 1402.

What a horrible way to begin what should have been a glorious day. My prayers and condolences to all.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,570 posts)
62. From the one picture I've seen, the aerial view here, there's not much damage to it.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:01 PM
Dec 2017

Remember, the 611 rolled over on its side, and it was rebuilt.

TheCowsCameHome

(40,168 posts)
63. Right.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:13 PM
Dec 2017

The underside is probably all torn up, but if the frame and above deck is good it likely be rebuilt. Certainly the prime mover and associated appliances at the very least would be reusable.

That must've been a wild ride, I hope the crew is ok.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
69. That is the first aerial photo I have seen. Thanks unfortunately that gives a better idea of how
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:38 PM
Dec 2017

disastrous this was . I thought from ground photos it was one or two cars

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,570 posts)
49. Death toll up to 6 now. Associated Press, via the Vancouver (WA) Columbian:
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 03:13 PM
Dec 2017
Amtrak train hurtles off overpass; at least 6 dead

By RACHEL LA CORTE, Associated Press
Published: December 18, 2017, 10:55 AM

brooklynite

(94,679 posts)
53. Conductor's emergency transmission to Command Center
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 03:22 PM
Dec 2017



It occurs to me that there's been no commentary on the engineer; usually they discuss how he'll be taken in for drug testing, etc. Given the distance the engine traveled, I'm thinking he may not have survived.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,570 posts)
70. Washington state DOT: Our statement on today's Amtrak Cascades derailment.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:39 PM
Dec 2017
Our statement on today's Amtrak Cascades derailment.


brooklynite

(94,679 posts)
76. Interesting, I didn't know Sound Transit owned any ROW
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:45 PM
Dec 2017

I once took a Sounder trip from Tacoma to Seattle and ended up chatting with the crew. They were working for BNSF, and the trains were being dispatched and monitored from their headquarters in Texas.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,570 posts)
79. Me either. I just read that in the statement. I made an edit in reply #2 accordingly. NT
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:58 PM
Dec 2017

Last edited Tue Dec 19, 2017, 11:20 AM - Edit history (1)

For a while, back in the late 1990s, Sounder cars were operating on the VRE. I used to see them on a southbound train in the afternoon.



The picture is taken from the bridge where Jefferson Davis Highway crosses over the ex-RF&P. The line going off to the right serviced Pepco's Potomac River Generating Station. It was coal-fired, about 540 MW, give or take. It shut down a few years back. Until September 1968, that line would have connected to the Washington and Old Dominion.

At least one VRE locomotive got the treatment too:



Burke, I think:



TheCowsCameHome

(40,168 posts)
81. The NTSB report will take a least a year to complete
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 05:06 PM
Dec 2017

They are amazingly meticulous in their investigative work. Bit and pieces will leak out, but the full report won't be done for quite a while.

I can think of a few possible reasons right off the bat, I really hope I am wrong. As a former railroader, this is an awful day.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,570 posts)
84. There was an ugly head-on at Longview back in 1993. Veterans Day, maybe. I'll look it up.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 05:37 PM
Dec 2017

Last edited Tue Dec 19, 2017, 11:21 AM - Edit history (1)

Head-On Collision and Derailment of Burlington Northern Freight Train with Union Pacific Freight Train
Executive Summary

On November 11, 1993, about 12:24 a.m. Pacific standard time, a Burlington Northern (BN) freight train collided head on with a Union Pacific (UP) freight train at BN milepost 102.8 south of the Longview Junction South interlocking near Kelso, Washington. As a result of the accident all five crewmembers from both trains were killed.


Probable Cause

The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was (1) the failure of the Burlington Northern crewmembers, for unknown reasons, to see the intermediate signal that would have directed them to stop at the absolute signal and (2) the lack of redundancy in the centralized traffic control system. Contributing to the accident was the lack of a positive train separation control system.

Gore1FL

(21,147 posts)
90. I remember that one well.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 09:16 PM
Dec 2017

I clerked that area (From St. Louis) for the UP the two years prior to the accident. I had moved on from that job but still with the company. The BN was a loaded coal train and the UP was an intermodal hotshot. The accident report was gruesome. The lead units were disintegrated and, at least at the time of the report I read, they only found a jawbone from the remains both crews.

 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
95. Amtrak train was traveling at 80 mph in 30 mph zone, NTSB says
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 08:14 AM
Dec 2017

The train that careened off a bridge outside Tacoma, Washington, killing three people was traveling at 80 mph on a 30-mph stretch of track, federal investigators confirmed late Monday.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amtrak-derailment-train-crashes-near-tacoma-washington-n830751

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,570 posts)
97. DuPont curve where Amtrak derailed long known as problem for high-speed train alignment
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 03:50 PM
Jan 2018
DuPont curve where Amtrak derailed long known as problem for high-speed train alignment

BY MIKE LINDBLOM

Seattle Times

JANUARY 02, 2018 09:58 AM

UPDATED 38 MINUTES AGO

The curve where Amtrak Cascades 501 derailed Dec. 18, killing three people, was identified years ago as an obstacle to Washington state’s dream of creating high-speed rail. ... The corridor between Lakewood and Nisqually “includes unsuitable sharp curvature,” said the state’s long-range plan, written in 2006. “A new connection, largely on structure because of differences in elevation, with a speed limit of one hundred mph will be required.” ... Yet the curve remains, a symbol of unsteady political support in the United States for rapid-rail infrastructure. ... Even with $800 million in Obama administration stimulus money, Washington state didn’t rebuild it.

The state decided instead to spread that cash among 20 projects, mostly to make its 79-mph corridor through Western Washington more reliable. Those projects include landslide prevention in Mukilteo, new Port of Vancouver, Washington, freight tracks to clear shipments out of the way of Amtrak Cascades, and renovating historic King Street Station in Seattle.

To straighten the DuPont curve and adjoining trestle over Interstate 5 would have driven the total cost to at least $412 million for the 14.5-mile passenger-rail corridor that opened this month from the Tacoma Dome to Lakewood and DuPont. That’s more than double the $181 million actual cost to rebuild the century-old segment with the 30-mph curve left in place.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,570 posts)
98. NTSB Releases Amtrak #501 Prelim Report
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 05:09 PM
Jan 2018

I'm on the NTSB mailing list.

NTSB Releases Amtrak #501 Prelim Report

Preliminary Report Railroad Amtrak Passenger Train 501 Derailment DuPont, Washington December 18, 2017 RRD18MR001

Executive Summary

​The information in this report is preliminary and will be either supplemented or corrected during the course of the investigation.

On December 18, 2017, at 7:33 a.m., Pacific standard time, southbound Amtrak (National Railroad Passenger Corporation) passenger train 501, consisting of a leading and trailing locomotive, a power car, 10 passenger railcars and a luggage car, traveling at 78 mph derailed from a highway overpass near DuPont, Washington. When the train derailed, it was on its first regular passenger service trip on a single main track (Lakewood subdivision) at milepost (MP) 19.86. The lead locomotive, the power car, and two passenger railcars derailed onto Interstate 5. Fourteen highway vehicles came into contact with the derailed equipment. At the time of the accident, 77 passengers, 5 Amtrak employees, and a Talgo Incorporated technician were on the train.[1] Of these individuals, 3 passengers were killed, and 62 passengers and crewmembers were injured. Eight individuals in highway vehicles were also injured. The damage is estimated to be more than $40.4 million. At the time of the accident, the temperature was 48˚F, the wind was from the south at 9 mph, and the visibility was 10 miles in light rain. Figure 1 shows an overhead view of the accident site.



Figure 1. The accident site. (Provided by Washington State Patrol.)

The authorized track speed north of the accident site is 79 mph and decreases to 30 mph at MP 19.8, prior to a curve. A 30-mph speed sign, was posted 2 miles before the curve on the engineer’s side of the track, to remind the operating crews of the upcoming speed restriction. Furthermore, another 30-mph speed sign was on the wayside at the beginning of the curve on the engineer’s side of the locomotive. Figure 2 shows the derailed passenger railcars on the highway.



Figure 2. Derailed Passenger Railcars on Interstate 5.

The lead locomotive’s event data and video recorders were successfully downloaded and processed in the NTSB’s Video Recorder laboratory in Washington, D.C. An initial review of the final portion of the accident sequence revealed the following information:

• Inward-facing video with audio captured the crew’s actions and their conversations. A forward-facing video with audio captured conditions in front of the locomotive as well as external sounds.
• The crew was not observed to use any personal electronic devices during the timeframe reviewed.
• About 6 seconds prior to the derailment, the engineer made a comment regarding an over speed condition.
• The engineer’s actions were consistent with the application of the locomotive’s brakes just before the recording ended. It did not appear the engineer placed the brake handle in emergency-braking mode.
• The recording ended as the locomotive was tilting and the crew was bracing for impact.
• The final recorded speed of the locomotive was 78 mph.

Positive Train Control (PTC), an advanced train control system mandated by Congress in the Rail Safety Improvement Act of 2008, is designed to prevent train-to-train collisions, overspeed derailments, incursions into established work zone limits, and the movement of a train through a switch left in the wrong position. If a train does not slow for an upcoming speed restriction, PTC will alert the engineer to slow the train. If an appropriate action is not taken, PTC will apply the train brakes before it violates the speed restriction. In this accident, PTC would have notified the engineer of train 501 about the speed reduction for the curve; if the engineer did not take appropriate action to control the train’s speed, PTC would have applied the train brakes to maintain compliance with the speed restriction and to stop the train.

Central Puget Sound Regional Transit Authority (Sound Transit) is a public transit agency in the State of Washington. Sound Transit is the owner of the Point Defiance Bypass tracks. The Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) is the owner of the controlling locomotive, and 11 of the 12 passenger cars. WSDOT contracts with Amtrak to operate the train service. As part of that contract with WSDOT, Amtrak provides the train crews and locomotive maintenance. Sound Transit reported that the PTC system on this line was not operational at the time of the accident. The current Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) deadline for PTC implementation is December 31, 2018.

The 55-year-old engineer had been working for Amtrak since May 2004 and had been promoted to engineer in August 2013. The other crewmember in the cab of the locomotive was a 48-year-old “qualifying” conductor who was being familiarized with the territory. This conductor had been working for Amtrak since June 2010 and had been promoted to conductor in November 2011. As of the date of this report, the NTSB has not yet been able to interview either operating crewmember of the lead locomotive due to their injuries sustained in the accident.

The parties to the investigation include the FRA; Amtrak; Sound Transit; State of Washington Utilities and Transportation Commission; Siemens Industry, Incorporated (manufacturer of the locomotive); the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen; and the International Association of Sheet Metal, Air, Rail and Transportation Workers.

(1) Talgo Incorporated, which was the original manufacturer of the passenger railcars, has the service and maintenance contract.

Probable Cause

​​The information in this report is preliminary and will be either supplemented or corrected during the course of the investigation.
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