Multiple people, officers, shot near Texas A&M University

[Lone_Star_Dem]

Last edited Mon Aug 13, 2012, 04:27 PM - Edit history (6)

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - Multiple people, including law enforcement officers, were shot on Monday when a gunman opened fire near Texas A&M University, police in College Station, Texas, said.

"We have multiple people who have been shot," police spokeswoman Rhonda Seaton told CNN, adding that law enforcement officers were among those.

Police had the shooting suspect in custody, according to the university's website. The extent of victims' injuries was not immediately clear.

The university issued a "code maroon" shortly after noon, warning students and employees that an "active shooter" was in the area west of campus and asking them to stay away.


Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/13/us-usa-texas-shooting-idUSBRE87C0V220120813

---

3 killed in shooting near Texas A&M University

(CNN) -- A Texas constable and two others were killed Monday in a shooting near Texas A&M University, police said.

Rhonda Seaton, a spokeswoman with the College Station police department, told CNN that the three people killed were the constable, the man authorities say opened fire on law enforcement officers and an unidentified civilian.

A few minutes earlier, Asst. Chief Scott McCollum, from the same police department, told reporters that at least four people -- two law enforcement officers and two civilians -- were shot in the incident, which occurred around noon just a few blocks from the Texas A&M campus.

The dead included Brian Bachman, the constable for Brazos County, according to McCollum.

A male civilian was also killed, the assistant police chief said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/13/justice/texas-am-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[div class="excerpt"]At least one dead in mass shooting near TAMU

One person has been killed and many injured after a gunman opened fire a block away from the Texas A&M University campus on Monday. Police now have the shooter in custody.

The Brian-College Station Eagle, reports that one officer has been killed, but police have not confirmed that information.

KCEN reports that six people have been shot, but again, police will not confirm that number.

The public information officer with St. Joseph Regional Health Center says the hospital has one female victim; her condition is unknown.

http://www.kltv.com/story/19264793/several-reportedly-shot-near-texas-am-campus


Updated to reflect change in headline.

Several injured in shooting near A&M

Source: KXAN

COLLEGE STATION, Texas (KXAN) - A guman opened fire near Texas A&M University on Monday, shooting at least two police officers and several other people, officials in College Station said.

There was no immediate report on fatalities. A suspect was in custody not long after the shots were fired, which was near Kyle Field.
the university said in an alert at 12:30 p.m.. " CSPD reports an active shooter in the area immediately southeast of the intersection of Welborn Rd and George Bush Drive. Please avoid the area. Residents in the immediate area need to remain inside their residence.

A dispatcher confirmed that more than one officer was hit by gunfire. Several media outlets, meanwhile, several media outlets in the area were reporting that two officers were hit.

Read more: http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/texas/several-injured-in-am-shooting

[jberryhill]

1. "Texas A&M's Code Maroon Alert system"

[OmahaBlueDog]

2. Police scanner: 2 officers shot near Texas A&M campus, suspect caught

http://www.theeagle.com/article/20120813/BC0101/120819835/1142

[LoisB]

3. Can we talk about gun control yet?

[Le Taz Hot]

4. Now is not the time.

[heaven05]

6. never

it will never be the time

[AllyCat]

5. No. We just need MORE guns. If people there were armed, this would not have happened.

Okay, where is the sarcasm smilie? Oh there is it!

[Berlin Expat]

41. If only law-abiding

citizens had RPG's and small tactical nuclear weapons, like our Founding Fathers intended for them to have, and as Jesus spoke about in the New Testament, when He said "Yea; for thou shalt slaughter thy neighbors and blight them with a 15-kiloton warhead", these kind of horrific tragedies could be so easily avoided.

[7wo7rees]

81. This argument is a non-starter.

When the law-abiding gun owners of this country want to see acts of this kind of gun violence end
(which should be the easiest for them to concede), then they will police their own.
Until then, we can only assume they want a nation of mooks in Thunderdome.
As such, they must abide as we adults impose some new rules.

How about IQ tests and behavioral health audits presale?
How about federal records of their family members' caches?
How about radius rules like for sex offenders?
How about rejections based on prescription drugs?

Because Joe Sixpack ain't protecting nobody. He's just firing randomly.

[Equate]

90. Really?

Then how do you explain this Joe Sixpack?

Or how about this one?

&feature=related

Or maybe this one?

&feature=related
Took me all of 10 seconds of google-fu to find them.

Of course I'm not saying that all CCW confrontations end up good for the CCW holder, but it gives someone at least a fighting chance.

[KG]

12. don't ya know? guns have nothing to do with people getting shot.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

15. Guns don't kill people...

But fucking bullets. Damn, they're just stone cold.

[wordpix]

16. NO! NRA, the T-baggers and their puppets in Congress say NO!!!!

Don't you get it yet? Our congressmen are bought and paid for with good money from NRA, not to mention the DOD contractors. So NO! Gawd forbid our booming industry in cheap, easily obtained guns and ammo should cause our economy to fail further.

[progressivebydesign]

22. "an armed society is a polite society," remember?

And nothing is more polite than shooting strangers and destroying lives.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. there is absolutely no connection

between the insane gun culture, the flood of guns in this country, and the increasing frequency of these events.

[Pilotguy]

37. We just need to arm all college mascots!

[hack89]

45. What is stopping us?

the President should make it his number one priority - the NRA can't prevent him from doing that.

[Earth_First]

50. Can we talk about a decimated healthcare system yet?

One in which individuals like these may be able to get help before resorting to gun violence?

[DBoon]

75. they had a shooting once in a coutry with strict gun laws

therefore the laws are no good.

Once in a generation Norway (or Canada or the UK or Japan) has a mass murder.

Every 3 weeks the USA has a mass murder.

Absolutely no difference.

[4th law of robotics]

101. A bit more than once

and those counties with the strictest gun control laws are the least safe in the US.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

110. Which are often times in close proximity to a jurisdiction with lax gun laws.

For example, D.C. and neighboring Virginia.

It's a lot more complicated than how you want to make it out to be.

[4th law of robotics]

111. Seems then the counties they are in proximity to would have the same problems

if guns are the source of the problem.

[jpak]

7. More Gun Fun!!!!111

WEEEEEeeeeee!!!!11

[Reasonable_Argument]

8. "automatic weapons"

Groan....

My thoughts go out to all the victims of this shooting. Any word on why he did it and how many injured?

[baldguy]

56. Why? He did it because he could. Because he had a gun.

The underlying excuses don't really matter. Do they?

[bucolic_frolic]

9. Obliterate Obamacare

These shooting victims don't need health care, let them pay for
it themselves.


"... life in the state of nature is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short." - Thomas Hobbes

Start preparing for the GOP world ahead. Sometimes classics are remarkably timeless, because
human nature and institutional structure do not change, they just repeat.

"In Leviathan, which was written during the English Civil War (1642–1651), Hobbes argues for a social contract and rule by an absolute sovereign. He wrote that chaos or civil war – situations identified with a state of nature and the famous motto Bellum omnium contra omnes ("the war of all against all&quot – could only be averted by strong central government."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_%28book%29

Yup. Wait until the return of "The War Between the States" Part Deux

[Arugula Latte]

10. This country disgusts me.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

11. Well, this is becoming distressingly routine (nt)

[dixiegrrrrl]

14. Yes, sadly it is.

I dear maybe even more so in the near future.
Something is terribly wrong in America.

[BlueNAlabama]

13. Gun Control, during an election year in this country????:(

Sadly, anyone with half a brain knows the existing laws aren't worth much so I doubt we'll ever hear any meaningful discussion of tightening the laws until this type of thing affects members of the "elite".

Think about it a second and then ask yourself why Madoff is behind bars when other's guilty of far greater crimes carry on, business as usual. He ripped off the rich and powerful and that just won't fly.

[wordpix]

17. it would be great if this became an election issue but NO! The NRA and MSM won't have it

[AngryAmish]

18. Another Teabagger I bet

[nichomachus]

25. There isn't much else in College Station

[Javaman]

19. So is this now 3 weeks in a row?

Movie theater

Sihk Temple

and now

Texas A&M.

[WCGreen]

28. don't forget the guy here in my hometown of Westlake, Ohio who was arrested to the

teeth in a movie theater less than two miles from my house...

[RZM]

39. You can't really put that in with the others

Nobody was harmed in that incident. And I've seen no indication that this was a 'foiled massacre.'

People get busted for having guns all the time. My guess is that he's paranoid and believes that movie theaters are dangerous places after Aurora.

That might not be correct either, but in the absence of evidence, I see no reason to act as if this was a massacre waiting to happen.

[WCGreen]

69. You say Patato I say Potato....

[dipsydoodle]

20. Texas 'shooter' detained near A&M University campus

Police in the US state of Texas say they have taken a man into custody after a shooting near a university.

Local news outlets reported there were several casualties in the incident near Texas A&M University in the city of College Station.

It is reported that at least one police officer was among the wounded.

A police spokeswoman told CNN that the shooting happened within two streets of the campus sometime before 12:45 local time (17:45 GMT).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19250806

[HereSince1628]

21. Freaky, that felt like someone stepped on my shadow

I lived very near there the summer I finished my dissertation.

Best recovery to everyone!

[BlueNAlabama]

23. Does The Name Charles Whitman Come to Mind???

[HereSince1628]

31. TAMU has a bell tower, I'm sort of glad this wasn't an on campus event. nt

[drm604]

52. The first thing I thought of.

[BREMPRO]

24. I'm just wondering .. when are the police department of this country going to weigh in on the gun

issue?! the "assault" weapons (ie useless except for mass killing of people) in the hands of the public an deranged persons is putting them at severe risk every day// seems like they would be lobbying hard for a return of the ban on assault weapons and multi-clips?? they could stand up to the NRA?

[Did I Just Type This]

26. more than 20,000,000 people own guns/rifles

I don't see why all the people of the entire U.S. should relinquish their right to bear arms because crack pots use them. If these crack pots drove around in cars running people down instead, would you demand everyone in the U.S. have their cars taken away?

[slackmaster]

32. IBYM > 200,000,000 people

HTH

[ChazInAz]

33. Right

We would prefer that crackpots neither drive nor own fire arms.
Thank you for your profound comment.
Enjoy your stay.

[BREMPRO]

40. not being suggested "all the people of the entire U.S. should relenquish their right to bear arms"

where on earth did you get that idea out of my post? no one here is suggesting that at all... strictly talking about semi-autos with killing machine clips only here.. and that they put not only the public but police at risk... and to use your analogy.. we don't allow dangerous vehicles on the road for a reason.. there are REASONABLE limits to individual right to protect the public at large. you wouldn't want crackpots driving tanks down main street would you? Really ... come on. no one is going to take your guns away.. that's just an NRA constructed conspiracy for donations..

[Tommy_Carcetti]

46. Let me handle this.

The primary intended purpose of a gun is to kill/injure, to simulate killing/injuring, or to threaten another with killing/injuring.


The primary intended purpose of a car is to get from Point A to Point B with more efficiency than walking or riding a bike.

In other words, a car does not equal a gun.

Get it?

Got it?

Good.


(Oh, and very few people are arguing that we need to take all guns away from everyone. That's what one calls a strawman argument. However, a good number of people believe that the laws governing the purchase and licensing of firearms is seriously flawed. Hence, that is all that people want to talk about, but for the NRA throwing a hissy fit).

[-..__...]

116. I got this one.

In other words, a car does not equal a gun.

I totally agree... and to that end, I wish that gun grabbers would cease from making that comparison.

"We license drivers... why not gun owners?": Uhmmm, no. No we shouldn't

"Cars have to be registered... why not firearms?": Guess what? Not just "no" to that, but a big resounding NO!.

"Drivers are required to obtain insurance... gun owners should be required to as well": Yeah well... fuck that grand notion too.

"Before obtaining a drivers license, a person may be required to take a drivers ed/safety course, and is required to take a written and road test. The same needs to be done before anyone can purchase or posses a firearm": You already know my opinion about a licensing requirement, so, I'll just skip that part. Safety training? I have no problem with that, in fact, I would recommend it, I would like to see it taught in schools, but it shouldn't become a "requirement".


Get it?

Got it?

Good.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

117. No, I don't think you did get it. I don't think you get it at all.

The gun lobbyist's position is that a gun is no more dangerous an instrument than a car. In doing so, they are ignoring the fact that a car's primary intended purpose is not to kill or injure someone (or to threaten or simulate killing or injuring) but is instead primarily intended as a matter of transportation. That a person may be injured or killed as a result of a car is incidental to its primary designed purpose.

On the other hand, the gun control advocates (or as you oh so affectionally call them, "gun grabbers&quot position is that a gun is in fact more dangerous than a car (due to the nature of a gun's primary intended purpose), but that the regulation of guns and gun ownership is in certain aspects more lax than that of cars, an item whose primary intended purpose is not to kill or injure someone (or to threaten or simulate killing or injuring). And they (rightfully, I believe) see a problem in that fact.

Gun lobbyists are making an equivilancy to guns and cars. Gun control advocates are pointing out the discrepency between guns and cars. It's actually quite easy to comprehend this rhetoric, so I'm surprised you missed it.

[Equate]

120. A firearm is no more dangerous than a car

if used responsibly. True, a car's purpose is transportation, but it can and has been used as a weapon, and a deadly one at that.
Witness car bombings, cars used to purposely to run down groups of people. More people die each year in the U.S. than firearms, despite the fact that a car's main purpose is transportation.

But you are correct about the discrepancy between guns and cars, cars kill more people each year than guns in the U.S..

[Tommy_Carcetti]

121. Okay, let's get this straight.

GM or Chrysler or Ford or Toyota do not design a car with the interests of it using it for a bar bomb or to run down people. It's not like you turn on the TV and you see a commercial for the Hyandai Explode (now with maximum shrapnel capacity!) or the Subaru Mow Down (0-5 grannies run down in 10 seconds!).

Moreover, the vast, vast majority of car related deaths are as the result of accidents. On the other hand, the vast majority of gun related deaths are intentional (whether they be justifed or not).

So yes, when considering its primary intended purpose, a gun is more dangerous than a car. Much more dangerous.

[Equate]

122. Primary intended purpose?

Then, sure, a gun is more lethal, but what difference does that make to the people who are injured or killed in a car accident, or the people wounded or killed in a car bombing? Do you really think they care what injured or wounded them? Do you think the relatives of those killed really care about what instrument was used?

I'll say it again, a firearm is no more dangerous than a car if used responsibly.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

130. Because one manufacturers a gun with that primary intended purpose.

And one purchases a gun with that primary intended purpose.

The gun is placed into the stream of commerce with that primary intended purpose.

Thus, because it is an item in the stream of commerce that has the primary intended purpose of killing/injuring or threatening or simulating killing/injuring, it must be subject to higher regulation and scrutiny than those items that do not. Period.

That does not mean they need to be subject to a blanket ban. I do not believe in that, nor do most Americans. But their use must be heavily regulated and subjected to the highest scruitiny. There's no way around it.

Stats show that the number one murder weapon is overwhelming a firearm of some sort. Not cars. Not knives. Not fists. Not sticks and stones. But guns. So yes, they are indeed more dangerous than any other deadly "weapon."

[Equate]

131. What difference does it make if the #1 murder weapon is a gun?

That doesn't change the fact that more people are injured or killed in car accidents than die by gun fire. Do you think that the people who are injured in accidents really give a shit how they were injured? Do you think that the relatives of those killed in car accidents really give a shit how their loved ones were killed?

It doesn't matter what the instrument of death is, dead is dead.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

132. *Ahem*

You note that more people die in car accidents than die by gun fire.

Well, okay......and your point is?

The difference here being that the majority of gun related deaths are not accidental. Instead, they occur intentionally, or at the very least as a result of a willful disregard of human life, which rises to the same level of intent legally.

Most car accident deaths are not intentional. I would venture to say a majority of them do not even involve drugs or alcohol, which in and of itself is reckless manslaughter but does not rise to the level of intent to kill or willful disregard of human life.

You see? There's a huge difference between the two. And if a loved one of mine is--God forbid--killed in a car accident, I might care somewhat if the driver disobeyed a traffic law of some sort. Or maybe not, since disobedience of traffic laws is unfortunately commonplace even amongst the most intelligent and well-rounded. However, I can tell you if a loved one of mine is killed in an act of random gun violence--such as the recent shooting in Colorado--and it turns out that the shooter had severe psychological issues yet was allowed by the state to legally obtain a deadly weapon--you better believe I will be angry at that situation.

Dead is dead, yes, but intentional death by the hands of another creates a whole new set of circumstances which need to be addressed. As opposed to sticking one's head in the ground like an ostrich.

[Equate]

133. "Ahem"

more than 50% of firearms deaths are suicide, take out suicide and the death by others drops pretty dramatically.
Be angry at the situation, so am I, but what I won't do is call for bans on so called "assault weapons", whatever the hell they are, mag. restrictions, or any other bullshit restrictions on the 2A. I'm with Pres. Obama, strengthen the existing laws, make all firearms sales, private or otherwise, go through a background check. There are some things we can do without pissing off the legal gun owners and inviting a huge backlash.
You don't punish the majority because a minority screws up.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

134. Legal gun owners?

Like this guy?



Or this guy?



Or maybe this guy?



Or perhaps you mean this guy?



These were all legal gun owners too, with nary a prior violent criminal record of which to be spoken.

But I could understand not wanting to piss them off.

[Equate]

135. So what is your solution?

A Pre-Crime Division? Treat all gun owners as criminals?
Now let's see, you have shown 4 individuals out of, how many gun owners? Last estimate was 80 million +, Wow, I'm speechless. I guess it's time to repeal or rewrite the BoR.

Your not going to change my mind on guns and I'm not going to change yours, so let's call it all good and go our separate ways. Deal?
Good.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

136. Ideally?

Those are 4 of the most notorious examples. However, there thousands of examples of legal gun owners without any prior criminal record using their weapon to illegally kill, which totally flies in the NRA argument that only criminals with prior records who have obtained their gun illegally use their guns for criminal offenses, and woe unto the poor, persecuted "legal" gun owner.

I'd like to see required annual independent psychiatric evaluations for anyone who wants to carry a gun. I'm serious. If you are going to carry a deadly weapon--the single most popular deadly weapon of choice by a long shot--you should have to be mentally fit to do so. That's how it ought to be.

Of course, with the NRA lobby being what it is, such an idea has a snowball's chance. Unfortuntely.

Still, given that Loughner, Cho and Holmes all have been reported to have exhibited signs of severe mental illness (but due to lack of a criminal record they are not prohibited from legally owning as many weapons as they so chose), there has to be some way to better convey those with extreme warning signs before they are allowed to purchase weapons. At the very least an initial psychiatric evaluation, if not an annual one.

[wordpix]

58. " I don't see why...entire U.S. should relinquish their right to bear arms" - who has EVER proposed

this? You are talking straight out of NRA talking points. We are discussing gun control here, not denying EVERYONE in the US the right to bear arms.

Please go take your NRA talking points elsewhere because they are nothing but BS LIES and we at DU can see through that.

[X_Digger]

72. ...like Janet Reno, Rep Bobby Rush, Rep Major Owens, Sen Dianne Feinstein, Sen Howard Metzenbaum?

Rep Mel Reynolds, Gov Dukakis, etc etc..

"Banning guns is an idea whose time has come."
--U.S. Sen. Joseph Biden Associated Press 11/18/93

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal." U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, December 1993

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe." CA Sen Diane Feinstein

"I don't care about crime, I just want to get the guns." OH Sen Howard Metzenbaum

"I am one who believes that as a first step the U.S. should move expeditiously to disarm the civilian population, other than police and security officers, of all handguns, pistols and revolvers ...no one should have a right to anonymous ownership or use of a gun." Dean Morris, Director of Law Enforcement Assistance Administration

"I do not believe in people owning guns. Guns should be owned only by the police and military. I am going to do everything I can to disarm this state." MA Gov Michael Dukakis

Or did you mean here at DU? (Plenty of those, if you hit threads that were locked in GD over the past couple of weeks.)

[gtar100]

82. Perfectly fine that some people want to completely ban guns.

It should be no surprise that those who feel this way are on the left. That is the way the pendulum swings. For any quote from well-known democrats that want to ban guns, there are at least as many who will state that is not their intention...even here on DU. If we can get past the black and white thinking, we might actually be able to work on solutions that minimize violence and senseless killings. Isn't that something that all but the sociopaths among us want?

[wordpix]

87. wow, you're going back 20 years to find someone

Who RECENTLY?

[X_Digger]

91. What, you think they've changed their minds?

When folks like Rahm Emmanuel say things like this?

"We're bending the law as far as we can to ban an entire class of guns."

[PavePusher]

60. There was never a ban on them before, and if they are "useless except for mass killing of people"...

should your proposal also take them out of the hands of the police and other government agents? If not... why not?

[BREMPRO]

126. so you have never heard of the "assault weapons ban" of 1994??

form wiki : "The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) (or Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act) was a subtitle of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a federal law in the United States that included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms, so called "assault weapons". There was no legal definition of "assault weapons" in the U.S. prior to the law's enactment. The 10-year ban was passed by Congress on September 13, 1994, and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton the same day. The ban only applied to weapons manufactured after the date of the ban's enactment.

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired on September 13, 2004, as part of the law's sunset provision. There have been multiple attempts to renew the ban,[1] but no bill has reached the floor for a vote."

there are mixed reports on the results of this ban, and i'm not suggesting that reasonable gun legislation like this is the whole answer to the recent rash of mass shootings..we need to look at mental health screening, our culture that glorifies violence and military prowess, incitement by RW politicians and media for "second amendment solutions" etc... the statistics consistently show the US as the top of the list on gun murders by depressingly wide margins.. and we have the corner on the market on mass shootings.

Interesting fact, The US govt. helped write the constitution in Japan after the end of World War II that banned civilian ownership of guns and swords.. Result? virtually zero gun related deaths.. There IS a direct correlation between gun laws and gun deaths. generally, with a few exceptions like Chicago as is often pointed out anecdotally, world wide and in the US the more restrictions, the less murder.. Not talking about sport/hunting rifles here.. just semi-auto weapons.. if you can't hit a deer with a single bullet .. it's not sport! many hunters i know use cross bows now which is becoming more popular.

And no.. i would not want to ban them for law enforcement.. swat teams and police officers currently may need them in some circumstances to protect the public (and themselves).. until a time when i would hope they are not needed. The bank robbery street shootout in LA a few years ago demonstrated that many criminals have access to and ability to be armed better than law enforcement.

i see NO purpose for a sportsman or hunter or target shooter to have access to these dangerous, deadly weapons ie.. 50 bullet per minute firing and 100 bullet clips.. can you give me a reasonable argument that they should?? (besides that the government is going to take away our liberty and freedom if we are not better armed than them bs)

[PavePusher]

129. Point by point

so you have never heard of the "assault weapons ban" of 1994??

Sure I have. It banned certain combinations of ergonomic features.... and nothing else. Exactly the same guns were manufactured and/or imported and sold as before the "ban". One of the stupider laws ever passed, right behind Prohibition I.

there are mixed reports on the results of this ban

Actually, no-one has been able to demonstrate that the "ban" (which wasn't) had any effect on crime whatsoever.

The US govt. helped write the constitution in Japan after the end of World War II that banned civilian ownership of guns and swords..

Japan had just lost a vicious war, and had never allowed arms ownership by the commoners anyway. Long, long history of that, and a completely different culture as well. So no direct relevence, really. One might, however, note their astonishing suicide rate, almost completely without firearms. Again, many cultural reasons, but anyone who claims that reducing guns would reduce suicides has to get past that fact.

And no.. i would not want to ban them for law enforcement.. swat teams and police officers currently may need them in some circumstances to protect the public (and themselves)..

So, police have a need to "kill many people quickly"? When/where/why?! Wouldn't ordinary bolt-action rifles do their job of "protection" just as well without indiscriminantly spraying bullets everywhere?**

The bank robbery street shootout in LA a few years ago demonstrated that many criminals have access to and ability to be armed better than law enforcement.

Actually, the police have full access to any arms they desire. At that time, the local PTB thought they didn't need to "kill a lot of people quickly", so they weren't equipped for it. Nor did they need to be. In that instance, they'd have been better off with a bolt-action rifle in .308, and someone who knew what to do with it. Note that they did borrow rifles from a gun store in the area... hmmmm...

i see NO purpose for a sportsman or hunter or target shooter to have access to these dangerous, deadly weapons

Well, semi-auto hunting rifles have been around for over a century. There really haven't been many problems. Note that it's not generally legal to kill game species using a magazine holding over 5 rounds**.... except, oddly in California. An AK-pattern rifle is ballistically nearly identical to a .30-30 lever action.... and in legal hunting has the capacity to hold far less ammo. AR-pattern rifles in their most common 5.56mm NATO/.223 Reminton caliber are, in many jurisdictions, considered not powerful enough to hunt deer legally. The AR-10 pattern, chambered for 7.63mm NATO/.308 Winchester fits the bill handily, and many excellent hunting caliber conversions are available for the AR-15.

**Hunters aren't going out spraying bullets at game, neither should police in public areas.

As far as you government/liberty/freedom dismissal, I direct your attention to Libya, Syria, Afghanistan.... They didn't get your memo.

[BREMPRO]

137. R)= response

so you have never heard of the "assault weapons ban" of 1994??

Sure I have. It banned certain combinations of ergonomic features.... and nothing else. Exactly the same guns were manufactured and/or imported and sold as before the "ban". One of the stupider laws ever passed, right behind Prohibition I.

R)that may be, it may have been insufficient legislation, but that does not undermine the argument against multiple clip semi-automatic weapons used primarily for killing people.


there are mixed reports on the results of this ban

Actually, no-one has been able to demonstrate that the "ban" (which wasn't) had any effect on crime whatsoever.
R) maybe so, but again that's a legislative issue not a substantive one.


The US govt. helped write the constitution in Japan after the end of World War II that banned civilian ownership of guns and swords..

Japan had just lost a vicious war, and had never allowed arms ownership by the commoners anyway. Long, long history of that, and a completely different culture as well. So no direct relevance, really. One might, however, note their astonishing suicide rate, almost completely without firearms. Again, many cultural reasons, but anyone who claims that reducing guns would reduce suicides has to get past that fact.

R) i was careful in my post not to attribute the problem to exclusively guns, i agree culture and mental health is a factor both here and in Japan and clearly stated that. I would take their suicide rate (however tragic) over our murder rate and mass killings any day.


And no.. i would not want to ban them for law enforcement.. swat teams and police officers currently may need them in some circumstances to protect the public (and themselves)..

So, police have a need to "kill many people quickly"? When/where/why?! Wouldn't ordinary bolt-action rifles do their job of "protection" just as well without indiscriminately spraying bullets everywhere?**

R) if they are being attacked by many people at once that might be appropriate, and your assumption that law enforcement professionals would not be properly trained in use of their weapons and "indiscriminately spray bullets everywhere" is a rhetorical leap, but i take your point. I would want the police and swat teams to be armed with the most appropriate weapons for their job and if that means bolt action rifles then fine. Ban them for everyone then.


The bank robbery street shootout in LA a few years ago demonstrated that many criminals have access to and ability to be armed better than law enforcement.

Actually, the police have full access to any arms they desire. At that time, the local PTB thought they didn't need to "kill a lot of people quickly", so they weren't equipped for it. Nor did they need to be. In that instance, they'd have been better off with a bolt-action rifle in .308, and someone who knew what to do with it. Note that they did borrow rifles from a gun store in the area... hmmmm...

R) see above.


i see NO purpose for a sportsman or hunter or target shooter to have access to these dangerous, deadly weapons

Well, semi-auto hunting rifles have been around for over a century. There really haven't been many problems. Note that it's not generally legal to kill game species using a magazine holding over 5 rounds**.... except, oddly in California. An AK-pattern rifle is ballistically nearly identical to a .30-30 lever action.... and in legal hunting has the capacity to hold far less ammo. AR-pattern rifles in their most common 5.56mm NATO/.223 Reminton caliber are, in many jurisdictions, considered not powerful enough to hunt deer legally. The AR-10 pattern, chambered for 7.63mm NATO/.308 Winchester fits the bill handily, and many excellent hunting caliber conversions are available for the AR-15.

R) Not sure what your vague statement of "there have not been many problems" murders? i know handguns are the primary weapon of choice for criminals and murder statistics, i would like to see their clips restricted to. SOOoo lets keep clips to 5 bullets then! we agree.

**Hunters aren't going out spraying bullets at game, neither should police in public areas.

As far as you government/liberty/freedom dismissal, I direct your attention to Libya, Syria, Afghanistan.... They didn't get your memo.

R) so you would put our government and social order in the same category of failed states and dictatorships? Not a reasonable comparison.

[hack89]

73. I think the cops understand how few people are killed by rifles of any kind.

handguns are the killers, day in and day out. Hand guns are what kill the most cops.

Drunk drivers kill many more cops than assault rifles.

[happyslug]

118. While statistics support low shotgun and rifles use, both are equal to and exceed DUI killings.

Since 2001, 498 Police Officers were "Feloniously Killed" by Pistols, 36 Police Officers were "Feloniously Killed" by Shotguns, 99 with rifles and 36 by Vehicles. Please note these are the statistic involving Murder, Manslaughter and Homicide by Vehicle NOT police actually killed under other circumstances (i.e. accident etc).

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/leoka-2010/tables/table27-leok-feloniously-type-of-weapon-01-10.xls

When it comes to distance, over half of all police officers killed are within 10 feet of the killer, less then 10% of all killers are more then 50 feet away (through about the same number of killers where the distance was NOT reported is also about 10%, most such killers would still be within 50 feet, but even if we assume all were more then 50 feet, that still means less then 20% of all police killers were outside what is generally considered pistol range and into rifle range).

Please also note, most criminals do NOT plan to shoot police, when they do it tends to be with rifles and shotguns not pistols. Thus the high rate of killing with rifles and shotguns do not surprise me, but that "high rate" is still less then 25% of all police killings.

Compare this to the overall Murder rates, in all states, except Alaska, people killed with knives or other weapons, exceed the number of people killed by Rifles or Shotguns. In Colorado for example, 117 were murdered, 65 with firearms, 30 with handguns. none with Rifles, 4 with shotguns, 27 unknown firearm (probably a pistol, but not listed in the police report) 20 with Knives, 21 with other weapons and 11 with hands, fist or feet (i.e. more people were killed with people hands and feet than with rifles AND shotguns).

Alaska is an exception, only three people were killed by pistols, five by rifles, none by shotgun, 10 the firearm was not listed (Again probably a pistol) four by knives, four by other weapons and four by hands or feet. Do to the lack of reporting of what firearm was used in over half the murders due to firearms, Alaska looks like the exception to the general rule that rifles and shotguns are used less then knives, other weapons, hands and feet while pistols exceed all three combined. On the other hand if we add the list of unknown weapons to pistols, it tends to follow the trend in the rest of the nation. i.e. Pistols are used in over 60% of all murders, followed by Knives, other weapons, hands and feet then Shotguns, then rifles.

Alaska, Arizona, Georgia. Louisiana, Missouri, Montana, Wyoming and the Virgin Islands are the only states where people killed by Rifles exceed Hands and Feet

Arizona, Georgia, Mississippi, Montana, Delaware, South Dakota and Alabama are the states where Shotguns murders exceed hands and feet.

Minnesota and North Dakota are the two states where Shotgun murders equal hands and feet.

In most states Murders by hands and feet exceed Murders by Shotguns AND rifles, including, but not limited to the following: Pennsylvania, Texas, California, New York, Massachusetts, Maryland, Maine, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Iowa, Illinois, Kansas, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon. South Carolina, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl20.xls

In simple terms, knives, "blunt instruments", feet and hands, tend to kill more people in the then rifles and shotguns. On the other hand pistols beat all other catagories hands down, killing 60-75% of all people killed.

[hack89]

119. You have to look at Accidental Deaths to see the 418 cops killed in auto accidents

or the 118 cops struck and killed by vehicles.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/leoka-2010/tables/table61-leok-accidentally-circumstance-01-10.xls

[happyslug]

125. Those are total Accidents, NOT DUI, but it show how low Rifles and Shotguns are used in crime.

n/t

[happyslug]

115. Police department have. the problem is Police OFFICERS do NOT agree with what the Department says

For example in one study, the Police Chiefs state the official line that Assault rifles use is up, but the actual people training police officers (and interacting with other officers) indict a DECLINE in the use of Assault weapons:

http://www.guncite.com/aswpolice.html

Another cite that shows a lack of support for gun control among police officers:
http://www.leaa.org/Cops%20Versus%20Gun%20Control/copsversusguncon.html

San Diego Police Department Poll on its officers as to Gun Control:
http://www.biblicalpatriot.net/PatrioticWorks/sandiegopolice.htm

Now, the above are right wing web cites, but many (if not most) police officers tend to be right wing (at least on gun control Issues) thus I have to give great weight to these reports.

On the other hand, the head of the Police Departments that tend to speak out on the subject of Gun Control tend to be for gun control. The reason for this is simple, where the Politicians who APPOINT the head of the Police Departments want the head to speak, the head knows who appoints him or her (and can fire him or her) and tend to follow whatever is the position of the politician who appoint them.

Just pointing out most Police Officers tend to oppose gun control laws. Many became police officers because they wanted to shoot guns on AND off the Job. Most of the police officers I meet when in the National Guard had weapons independent of their service as a Police Officer or in the National Guard. It is like socialists (and others who tend to favor social programs) tend to go to social welfare grounds, people who wants to own and shoot guns tend be become police officers. It is who becomes Police Officers, and thus it should not surprise anyone that most police officers oppose further gun control.

In my opinion, instead of pushing gun control, the emphasis should be in increase spending on medical care, including speeding up the implementation of Obamacare. Yes, these shootings involved weapons, but also people in need of psychiatric care, which is hopelessly underfunded in this country. Gun Control is the cheap solution to the problem. The better solution is increase access to psychiatric care.

Side note: I also blame, Terry vs Ohio for this problem. In Terry, the US Supreme Court said is was constitutional for a Police Officer to search someone in case they had a weapon even if the Officer had NO PROBABLE CAUSE FOR THE SEARCH. This permitted Police to search anyone on the street that they wanted to, "to make sure they did not have a weapon". The Court justified this exception to the need for probable cause on the grounds to protect Police Officers. The Police have used this exception to do illegal searches ever since, knowing the weapon they found was NEVER going to be used against them, but against some other criminal (The criminal carried the gun for self protection from someone else shooting them, NOT from the police arresting them). During such Terry searches if the police find anything else, it can be used as evidence (Some exceptions, for example whatever the officer finds during the search has to be related to a search for a weapon, a bag of soft material must be left alone, but anything hard can be pulled out, i.e. a bag of weed that if felt in a pocket is clearly not a weapon can NOT be used as evidence, but if the bag was in a hard container and the hard container could have held a gun, the hard container could be pulled out and once open the weed is found, the week can be used as evidence). Terry Searches MUST be related to a search for a weapon, but that can be a broad enough search, thus Police Officers like during Terry searches. This is another reason Police Officers do NOT like gun control, if it was effective, it would give Police a major problem doing Terry searches. More of a side issue then the main issue of why Police Officers oppose gun control, but it is an additional reason.

[upaloopa]

27. So what now. We must contain our outrage to gun forum so this doesn't have to register on the

minds of those who don't think we need to do anything about gun violence? Or are we allowed to keep it front and center for a while?

[Warren Stupidity]

38. It will be pushed into the gungeon ASAP.

Can't have all the ugliness on display here you know.

[Ishoutandscream2]

29. Never freakin' ends

Never! How twisted is this country?!

[progressivebydesign]

30. Summer of heartbreak... summer of guns. It hit close to home this weekend for me.

I was in a store just down the street on Saturday at the same moment that a woman randomly decided to pull in to a different market nearby and start shooting strangers. It can just change your life in a blink of an eye.. the decision to stop at one store, as opposed to the one just down the street.

Apparently she had mental illness issues, and had planned to kill herself, and decided on a whim to stop at the store as she passed, to shoot people. http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/08/11/2252359/three-men-injured-in-shootings.html

This has to stop.

[BlueNAlabama]

35. Armed Civilians Didn't Help When Whitman Was in the Tower at UT

Apparently the Austin Police of 1966 didn't have the firepower to get the sniper so locals with high powered hunting rifles were allowed to fire on him. Didn't work then did it......

[Equate]

66. It most certainly did

while the civilians were firing keeping whitman form shooting, cops and civilians were able to make it to the tower, climb up and take him out.

[Paladin]

84. Continued Efforts By Gun Militants......

....to transform Charles Whitman's 1966 murder rampage into some sort of Second Amendment triumph are genuinely stomach-turning. I was in Austin that day, I remember repeated law enforcement demands on TV and radio that civilian shooting cease and desist. Such shooting contributed to an already chaotic situation, resulted in an untold number of rounds discharged into the air, and gave a trained marksman like Whitman more targets on the ground. Find something else to crow about.....

[Equate]

86. Are you denying that armed civilians helped keep his head down

while LEO and armed civilians were able to rush the tower? Were you actually at the university that day? If not, then you don't know what LEO wanted. The armed civilians already there were greatly assisting police as detailed below and backed up by a cop that was actually involved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman#August_1.2C_1966


Approximately 20 minutes after he had first fired from the observation deck, Whitman began encountering return fire from both the authorities and armed civilians who had converged with personal firearms to assist police. It is believed that at this point, he began to fire through waterspouts located upon each side of the tower; allowing him to fire largely protected from gunfire below, but also greatly limiting his range of targets. Ramiro Martinez, an officer who participated in stopping Whitman's rampage, later stated that the civilian shooters should be credited as they made it difficult for Whitman to take careful aim.[citation needed] A police sharpshooter named Marion Lee reported from a small airplane upon which he had been deployed in order to shoot the gunman or gunmen firing from the observation deck that he had observed a single sniper firing from the observation deck. The airplane carrying Lee circled the tower as Lee attempted to shoot the sniper; however, the turbulence proved too great to enable Lee to focus sufficienly to fire upon Whitman. Whitman was himself able to fire upon the airplane, although the airplane was able to continue to circle the tower from a greater radius until the end of the incident.

And there's this from LEO Ramiro Martinez
http://www.policemag.com/blog/patrol-tactics/story/2008/11/call-for-civilian-backup.aspx

This makes it pretty clear that armed civilians did play a significant part in taking him down

BTW, I take the term "gun militant" as a compliment, thank you.

[Paladin]

95. I Was In Austin That Day.

I had school friends who lost family members to Whitman's rampage. And if a Wikipedia-based account of that day, written in a such a way as to please Ted Nugent, is what you need to prop yourself up, have at it. Enjoy your stay.

[Equate]

96. Were you at the university that day?

So you're calling that cop a liar? I provided facts, backed up with links and quotes that civilians did play a significant, positive role in suppressing Whitman's gun fire that day, and all you have to say is that the article was written to please Nugent? That's all you've got?
If you have proof or links that refute what I posted, I would be more than willing to look at it.

I'm sorry that you had friends that lost family members that awful day, but what's that got to do with what I posted?

I am enjoying my stay, thanks.
You have a good day.

[Paladin]

98. Have A Nice Day, Yourself.

If you're so inclined, spare some kind thoughts for those killed and wounded in College Station.

[Equate]

103. I have nothing but kind thoughts for those innocent people

who are injured or killed through no fault of their own, be it by any kind of violence, whether it's by gun, knife, baseball bat, 2X4, beaten to death or injury, motor vehicle accident, boat or aircraft crash, whatever.


Have a good evening and may peace follow you and your family throughout your life.

[kestrel91316]

36. If only all those responsible, level-headed, mature college students

had been armed to the teeth, this would never have happened.

[hack89]

42. So 21 years olds can't be level headed and responsible? OK. nt

[kestrel91316]

47. At Texas A&M I seriously doubt many of them are.

And the gun-infatuated would probably be the LEAST likely to be mature and responsible.

[hack89]

48. So New England college students are? It is a regional thing then? nt

[gkhouston]

80. No, it's an A&M thing.

It's a very traditional campus, attracts authoritarian types, and at least when I was young, the kids I knew who went to A&M seemed immature for their age.

[Paladin]

85. What Do You Say We Cut The Aggies A Little Slack, Right Now.

This is from a UT guy, by the way......

[KeepItReal]

43. 2 killed near Texas A&M campus

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/2-officers-killed-near-Texas-A-amp-M-campus-3784724.php

Two people, including an elected Brazos County constable, are dead in a College Station shooting this afternoon near the Texas A&M University campus, authorities said.

The deaths were confirmed at a 2:30 p.m. news conference by College Station Police Department Assistant Chief Scott McCollum.

Precinct 1 Constable Brian Bachmann, as well as another unidentified male civilian, were killed in the shooting just after noon in the 200 block of Fidelity.

Two other College Station police officers received life threatening injuries in the shooting. Another civilian, a female, was injured and is undergoing surgery, McCollum said.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

44. THey're now saying the shooter is also dead.

Per CNN. I added it to the OP.

[Warpy]

54. The only description so far is male, mid 30s.

I have to wonder if Bachmann was serving some sort of papers on him and why. Or maybe the heat drove him batty, it's doing it to me this summer.

[S_B_Jackson]

74. Bachman was the deputy constable whose duty it was to serve the shooter with an eviction notice

like domestic calls, evictions, are amongst the most dangerous an unpredictable situations for police. Very high emotions, and the officer is the object of a great deal of anger and hostility.

[wordpix]

59. WTF? "Police had the shooting suspect in custody"

somewhat a contradiction

[Brigid]

49. Oh, dear Lord.

Not again.

[Moran1D4]

51. 300 Million Firearms Under Private Ownership in USA

There are some 300 Million - 400 million Firearms in USA Under Private Ownership.

[Hoyt]

65. And gun culture wants us to do nothing for another decade so there'll be 100 million more polluting

society. Then, they'll proclaim, too late to do anything because the cats already out of the bag -- so more guns for everyone and more profits for the greedy right wing gun manufacturers, sellers, traffickers, etc.

[AndyTiedye]

79. More Guns than People

Current U.S. Population: 314,155,362

We got more guns than people.
Probably enough ammo to kill us all 1000 times.

[TexasTowelie]

53. Coverage from the local newspaper.

http://www.theeagle.com/article/20120813/BC0101/120819835/1142

[baldguy]

55. More blood on the hands of the gun worshipers.

[PavePusher]

61. No matter how often you try to sell that vile, filthy fucking lie,

I am not responsible for the actions of a criminal.

Nor do I "worship" any inanimate object, depite your accusations/insinuations. I don't, as a matter of fact, "worship" anything, though I do hold individual responsibility for one's action in very high regard.

[baldguy]

63. If you oppose any form of gun control - then yes, you are responsible. Deal with it.

Last edited Tue Aug 14, 2012, 06:55 AM - Edit history (1)

These mass murders and terrorist acts are as much a product of your individual actions in keeping gun control off the table as the shooter pulling the trigger.

You can deny your obvious responsibility, or you can recognize it & do something positive about it instead.

[PavePusher]

64. Firstly, who said I "oppose any form of gun control"? Another nasty invention of yours?

And I repeat: I am not responsible for any other individuals actions. No matter how much you may rave about it.

Stop. Telling. Lies.

[baldguy]

71. You think I'm being "nasty"? Just think of all the dead bodies gun worshipers are responsible for.

And if you self-identify as a "gun worshiper" (you did respond to my post, without prompting and without being called out, didn't you? Seeming just to whine that you were definitely not a "gun worshiper"! Yeah, right. )

You are responsible for your actions. One of the actions is voting to prevent comprehensive & effective gun control from being enacted. Another is voting to allow the free availability of guns.

Grow up. Put your big-boy pants on. Accept your responsibility.

[Doctor_J]

88. OK, how about "those who think there are too many gun laws", or

"those who think there should be more guns, not less"? They are a large part of the problem. Do you fall into that category?

[PavePusher]

94. I certainly think there are some stupid, ineffective and useless gun laws that should be removed.

Why keep laws that don't work, and merely serve to obstruct lawful Citizens to no effect on criminals?

I don't think there are too many guns, or not enough guns. I think individuals should be free to decide if they have enough guns on their own. If they aren't engaged in criminal behavior, it's not my business.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

92. So what gun control measures are you for?

That's not hypothetical and I'm not meaning to bash you; I'm genuinely curious.

[PavePusher]

93. I like the NICS system, think the reporting system should be stronger/better enforced/better funded.

I'd like to see it opened to private sales and possibly made mandatory, but enforcement and security of privacy are issues that need to be worked out.

I'd like to see mandatory safety training in school, at a minimum something along the lines of "don't touch, tell an adult" for elementary school, perhaps some more specific basic handling/safing in high school, and optional usage/marksmanship training.

I'd like to see interstate carry reciprocity. I'd prefer to see no permits required (may I see your Fourth, Thirteenth and Twenty-Sixth Amendment permits, please?), but could compromise on some basic, non-restrictive training requirements provided at no charge by the government (i.e. tax-dollar supported).

I'd like to see the function for applying for restoration of rights re-funded so that former criminals with a TBD period of clean record can re-attain their rights.

I'd like to see some massive funding of rehabilitation programs for criminals, mental health care and incentives for creating jobs to keep people out of crime.

I'd like to see legalization and regulation of recreational drugs similar to alcohol, taking the incentive for criminal violence out of the distribution system.

I think that's a good start. And it's all stuff that hasn't actually been proven to not work.

[baldguy]

102. And the real reason it isn't is because of the influence of your allies in the NRA.

Grow up. Deal with it.

[PavePusher]

105. Be constructive or piss off. n/t

[baldguy]

107. For all your claims of believing in personal responsibility

You run away in blind adolescent terror when you're confronted with the very real & deadly consequences of your irrational ideology fundamentalist gun worship.

[PavePusher]

113. "run away in blind adolescent terror"?

Nope, walking away from unsupported and malicious accusations (i.e. trollery) of aiding and abetting violent crime. Unless you have direct evidence, we're done here. Good day to you.

[baldguy]

123. Abject denials do not absolve your responsibility.

Repentance does.

[Hoyt]

67. i don't know about that - if I buy a polluter's products or go to Chick Fil A, I'm helping the SOBs.

Those who accumulate more and more guns, support NRA in quest for more guns and lax laws, sell guns in back alleys, goof up so guns are stolen, etc., do at least indirectly contribute to this mess.

[DBoon]

77. protected by the 1st amendment

Firearm worship is a passion and an all-encompassing worldview.

The American firearm religion believes guns are holy relics, the possession of which renders one immune to assault and criminal violation, and prevents all forms of tyranny

The gun is not simply a mechanical device for sporting and (sometimes) self-defense, not it is a celebration of holy vengeance against all that is evil and corrupt.

As long as Americans are faithful to the cult of firearm worship, we shall remain strong, free, and rid of effeminate San Francisco liberalism.

[baldguy]

78. I don't mind gun worshipers having their own rites & sacraments.

What I object to is being forced to participate as a potential blood sacrifice without my consent.

[FBaggins]

97. This post should NOT be hidden.

It's really the fault of anyone who opposed free speech limitations on the internet. They're the ones to blame for such ridiculous nonsense. Not the childish poster who thought he had an actual point to make.

[Tx4obama]

57. Kick! n/t

[maddezmom]

70. Alleged College Station killer identified as Thomas Caffall Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/ar

College Station - To go by his Facebook page, he enjoyed NASCAR, Fox News, Angry Birds, and a lot of the shows on the USA Network, such as "Psych" and "Burn Notice." He listed William Shakespeare as being among his list of "inspirational people."
And earlier today, according to police, a College Station, Texas, constable showed up with an eviction notice. He was allegedly shot to death by 35-year old NASCAR, FOX NEWS and Shakespeare fan Thomas A. Caffall.
We haven't told you everything Caffall listed among his "likes" and "inspirational people" on his Facebook page, which we imagine will not be online much longer.


Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/article/330758#ixzz23TrsXXul

[DBoon]

76. here is the punch line

We haven't told you everything Caffall listed among his "likes" and "inspirational people" on his Facebook page, which we imagine will not be online much longer.
He also liked Glocks.
Among his "inspirational people" was Vasily Grigoryevich Zaytsev, a Soviet WWII sniper with 800 certified kills. Also on his list?

...

"Oh, yes. Also on the list? Glenn Beck, Thomas Paine and Ronald Reagan. Also, Sarah Palin, John Wayne, S.E. Cupp, Michele Bachmann, Tea Party Patriots, Bill O'Reilly, Americans for Prosperity Super PAC, and a group called "I will NOT vote for Obama in 2012."

[DonCoquixote]

83. predictable

nothing need be said.

[wordpix]

89. +1000 - Faux News & this guy's "heroes" are dangerous propagandists

Shades of Nazi propaganda whipping up the populace to commit genocide against Jews

[Tommy_Carcetti]

99. The latest reports state that the shootout between Caffall and police lasted 30 minutes

This begs an important question:

If it takes law enforcement professionals who are well-trained in the use of firearms 30 minutes to take down a shooter, could we really expect a citizen CCW permit holder with far less training to have done a better job (while not putting the greater public at risk in the process)?

[Equate]

104. What does CCW have to do with this shooting?

It was a barricaded suspect incident.
And most cops only shoot their guns when they have to to their annual qual.. OTOH, CCW citizen's generally shoot a hell of a lot more.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/13/justice/texas-am-shooting/

[Paladin]

108. Where's All That Faith And Belief In Cops Now?

You cite law enforcement sources as The Word Of God regarding The Whitman shootings, then you denigrate cops on their training---and all in one thread. How completely unsurprising......

[Equate]

114. What's your problem?

I did not denigrate cops, I stated a fact, most street cops only fire their guns when they have to qualify, of course there are exceptions, like SWAT, and other specialized units. I know for a fact that I can outshoot most of the deputies in my town.

And you never did refute me on the Whitman shooting, want to do that now? Can you disprove what I cited.

Cops have a tough, thankless job and I have nothing but highest regard and respect for them, but they're not infallible.

[PavePusher]

106. I presume he was barricaded inside a house?

That is not at all the purview of the average lawfully-armed-person-on-the-street.

You don't seem to know much about the average defensive shooting.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

109. Mainly because they are far and few between.

Or, in cases like that of George Zimmerman, not actually defensive.

[PavePusher]

112. Wrong on both counts, but I'm sure you know how to research this stuff for yourself....

if you actually want to.

You can start here:

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/category/ccm-departments/true-stories/

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/

[adigal]

100. Another one? It is terrible, I don't even pay attention anymore. N/t

[NickB79]

124. He shot a cop serving an eviction notice for foreclosure

His house was being foreclosed upon: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57492740-504083/texas-a-m-shooting-an-eviction-notice-allegedly-caused-thomas-alton-caffall-the-suspected-gunman-to-open-fire/

This is looking less and less like a gun-toting nutjob roaming the streets and more like a man pushed to the breaking point by the predatory banks that have destroyed so many millions of lives in this country so far.

That's not to excuse in any way what he did, but it does throw another variable into the equation.

[SoCalMusicLover]

127. He Shot An Innocent Person

He was a gun-toting nutjob, pushed to the breaking point. Fuck Him!

I don't care what problems he had, the only variable was that he chose to kill innocent people, when he should have just put a bullet in his head if he was that much of a coward.

There are plenty of people in the country who have suffered and are victims, and they don't go around killing people who are doing their job, or living their life with no idea a "GUN TOTING NUTJOB" is in their neighborhood.

[Ilsa]

128. He was being evicted from a rent house; not a foreclosure.

The article said he was a renter, not an owner facing foreclosure.