All 44 Crew Members of Missing Argentine Submarine Believed to Be Dead

[brooklynite]

Source: Slate

After a week of searching for a missing Argentine Navy submarine off the coast of the country, the families of the 44 crew members aboard have been told that their loved ones are believed to be dead. That news came Thursday after naval officials announced they had detected a sound believed to be an explosion aboard the vessel shortly after it went missing on Nov. 15th. A spokesman described the sound as “abnormal, singular, short, violent” and "consistent with a non-nuclear explosion.”



Read more: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/23/all_44_crew_members_of_missing_argentine_submarine_believed_to_be_dead.html

[csziggy]

1. .

[sandensea]

2. Trump's buddy Macri has a lot to answer for over this.

Macri had been sitting on this information since Friday - and would have continued doing so had the explosion not been revealed by the CTBTO.

His administration no doubt knew they were all dead since then, which is why he and his Defense Minister left it to this poor guy, Navy Spokesman Enrique Balbi, to do all the talking.

It was more important to them that the public not blame them for cutting back on already-paltry maintenance budgets, than even to keep the families themselves duly informed.

They may get through the scandal thanks to Argentina's largely right-wing, Fox-like media. But they shouldn't.

[question everything]

3. That's Sad

Hope they can find their bodies and the explanation of how it happened

[Pachamama]

5. Sadly they might not be recovered depending at what depth

...they were and if the wreckage could be reached. I just hope they didn’t suffer and it was quick. Sending love and comfort to their families who are heart broken and in sorrow at this tragic loss of their loved ones.

[True Dough]

4. RIP

Argentine is still humankind. It's a tragedy for them to go that way.

[AncientGeezer]

6. I remember the Kursk sinking like it was yesterday...this is so reminicent.

[sandensea]

7. Do you think there might have been foul play?

Reports state that the San Juan sank very close to the northern limit of the exclusion zone declared by Thatcher in 1986 (the military exclusion zone was lifted in 1990; but the 200-mile fishing zone was not, despite a UN Commission ruling last year that declared the entire area to be within Argentine waters).

Is it possible that a British sub accidentally sank the San Juan?

If so either a) Theresa May has successfully kept it a secret; or b) Macri knows full well, but in the interest of preserving his reputation in the U.K. - particularly among U.K. conservatives (very important to him) - has opted to go along with the ruse.

I pray none of this is even remotely true. But in this day and age, who knows anymore.

[Denzil_DC]

8. Hmm. If it's a British sub and it was itself damaged in a collision,

it would have to limp home to base around where I live, on the River Clyde.

That's a long way to limp. (It could conceivably go to a US port, but that would be extreme, and obvious if it happened.)

I think it's unlikely, but we'll keep an eye out for unusual movements. If it was damaged, they won't be able to hush it up (it's happened in the past).

An accidental torpedoing, though? Not likely at all.

More likely poor maintenance or some other mishap.

It must be horrible for the families.

[sandensea]

9. Well said, Denzil.

Thank you for your insights.

There is indeed a good bit of criticism in the Argentine opposition press right now over Macri's cutbacks ($300 million, from an already paltry $5.5 bn. defense budget), his push to shut down the state-owned defense contractor (to sell off the parts), and of course his stringing the families of the victims along for a week when they clearly knew all was already lost.

No wonder he and Trump are such friends.

[metalbot]

14. I think "stringing the families along" is an unfair characterization

You don't declare everyone dead simply because you detected an explosion. You conduct search and rescue efforts until the air supply has definitively run out, and that's really only in the last 24-48 hours that you could say that with certainty.

There's a lot of reasons to be critical of the Argentine government, but this basically sounds like a horrible accident, and one in which significant Argentine and international resources were pushing towards a happier ending.

[sandensea]

15. It's not unfair, no.

This was Defense Minister Oscar Aguad on Twitter last Saturday (the day after the situation was publicly disclosed):

We received seven signals from satellite calls from the submarine San Juan. We are working hard to locate it (the sub), and we transmit this hope to the families of the 44 crew members: that they may soon have them back in their homes.

Navy spokesman Enrique Balbi, the only official to hold press conferences or even give public statements during the ordeal, contradicted Aguad right away - which shows that Aguad was not only lying; but that the administration had already decided to throw the Navy under the bus.

Sure enough, Macri - who finally issued a public statement (4 minutes, and with no questions allowed) - sacked the entire Navy command today, while praising Aguad for "doing the right thing."

[jgmiller]

19. Submarines are the most dangerous ships in the world

They always have been and always will be, there is no foul play don't start wild rumors based on no data. It could have been a million different things the "explosion" that was detected was either a real explosion, probably from a fire in the massive battery banks that exist in all diesel subs. This traditionally has been the way most sink, there is a build up gas in the battery compartment a spark ignites it and the sub goes to the bottom. The explosion doesn't rupture the hull, without electrical power the sub is unable to blow the water out of the ballast tanks and the sub sinks. This BTW is one of the reasons nuclear boats are safer, they don't rely on those massive batteries. The other reason for the sound could be the opposite of an explosion, it could have been an implosion when the sub reached its crush depth.

[Rene]

10. Did the U.S. send any help for the search?

[Denzil_DC]

11. Yes.

It's been a major international effort:

On 17 November, a U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) P-3 Orion aircraft, equipped with a magnetometer, gravimeter and other sensors, was redirected from Operation IceBridge to aid in the search.[70] The United States Navy sent a P-8A Poseidon aircraft, the McCann Rescue Chamber and the Submarine Rescue Diving Recompression System. On 19 November, the U.S. Navy sent a second P-8A, and deployed four unmanned underwater vehicles, to assist in the search. Additionally, thirty-six reservists from Navy Reserve Undersea Rescue Command and Navy Reserve Undersea Rescue Command Headquarters deployed to the Skandi Patagonia. The U.S. Air Force supported with effort through Air Mobility Command moving Air Force and Navy personnel, and more than one million pounds of equipment, to Argentina with three C-5M Super Galaxy and seven C-17 Globemaster III cargo aircraft.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_San_Juan_(S-42)#Search_and_rescue_effort - Wikipedia, but I've no reason to doubt it)

[lagomorph777]

12. I have one tiny ray of hope - what if they fired a torpedo to get attention?

It should be a lot easier for searchers to triangulate on a sound that loud.

[sandensea]

13. That's an intriguing thought.

From what I understand, there was no signal of any kind. Could it be they tried exactly that - but without being able to communicate in any other way?

Btw, here's footage of the San Juan from six months ago. It's in Spanish; but it gives you a good idea of the interior (antiquated, though apparently well-maintained).

The woman featured at 0:57 is Lt. Eliana Krawczyk, the only woman in the crew and one of the victims.

[xor]

16. I would think if they had a major failure and they are at the bottom of the sea

then chances are the systems required to fire a torpedo are not functioning. Then even if they were functioning, being on the ocean floor seems like it would be a great risk. As Firing torpedo would risk an explosion where or near where they lay. I would think if the sub was functional enough to do anything then they would have blown ballasts or whatever.

[lagomorph777]

17. Yeah, it's a pretty thin hope.

[LongTomH]

18. The loud sound could have been the hull imploding as the sub passed its 'crush depth.'

I believe the same sort of "high-energy, low-frequency noise" was detected when the submarine Thresher imploded in 1963.

Sorrow for the crew and their families!