Two More Women Accuse Sen. Al Franken Of Inappropriate Touching
Source: Huffington Post
Two more women have told HuffPost that Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) touched their butts in separate incidents. These are the third and fourth such allegations against Franken in the past week. Leeann Tweeden, a radio host, wrote last week that Franken had kissed and groped her without her consent during a 2006 USO tour. On Monday, Lindsay Menz accused Franken of groping her at the Minnesota State Fair in 2010.
The two additional women, who said they were not familiar with each others’ stories, both spoke on condition of anonymity. But their stories, which describe events during Franken’s first campaign for the Senate, are remarkably similar — and both women have been telling them privately for years.
In a statement to HuffPost, Franken said, “It’s difficult to respond to anonymous accusers, and I don’t remember those campaign events.”
The first woman, who spoke to HuffPost on condition of anonymity because she’s worried she’ll be harassed online for making the allegation, said Franken groped her when they posed for a photo after a June 25, 2007, event hosted by the Minnesota Women’s Political Caucus in Minneapolis.
Read more: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/al-franken-two-more-women-groping_us_5a15a455e4b09650540ec295?b9q
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dhill926
(16,347 posts)
VMA131Marine
(4,140 posts)I'm so disappointed but there's not going to be any overcoming this.
FarPoint
(12,409 posts)I just don't. ..
brooklynite
(94,604 posts)FarPoint
(12,409 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 22, 2017, 09:50 PM - Edit history (1)
You either take care of business timely, deal with it...move on...
Legal and or some form of evidence complaint needs to be presented for me to take some degree of notice.
This is an unacceptable venue to " out" a negative complaint...
True Dough
(17,311 posts)"Whining" is a pathetic thing to call it when multiple women summon the courage to step forward to reveal that they have been assaulted or harassed.
Expecting evidence to be exhibited is an ideal. Optimally all the women would have been recorded being groped by others nearby with cellphones. But that's not the case. These things happened at different times in different places and with a different prevailing attitude. It's only now, in 20-freakin'-17 that society sees prepared to come down hard on the likes of Bill Cosby, Roger Ailes, Bill O'Reilly, Charlie Rose, Harvey Weinstein, etc.
Many of the accused have several women, upwards of a dozen in some cases, who have made statements about the abuse they suffered at the hands of these men. There's a point of critical mass where you should just accept that the accused is very likely guilty, especially when they don't attempt to defend themselves vigorously.
Trump has professed his innocence and threatened to sue all the women who accused him, but he hasn't followed through on that because he's a LYING ARSEHOLE!
FarPoint
(12,409 posts)I don't think the claims are an act of bravery... maybe a roll of the dice would apply..
Bravery would be to deal with the issue timely.....I discount late alleged claims.
True Dough
(17,311 posts)It might clue you in. Then again, some people remain callous all their lives.
FarPoint
(12,409 posts)I certainly have had my share of harassment and groping...took care of setting boundaries at the time.... against male professionals...in power...
True Dough
(17,311 posts)Not all women (or men) are cut from the same cloth. Some feel empowered when they are part of a group, when their voice is supported by others. They shouldn't have to feel lesser because they didn't confront a harasser in the moment.
FarPoint
(12,409 posts)Young girls have been culturally raised to be subordinate.....I just find this Trial by Media to be the weakest option to try and evoke change for women's dignity..
It has no organized goals, leadership or planning....it is only a temporary feel good moment. The media with ongoing chatter, only triggers stuffed abuse feelings of the victims in the audience....the media gains viewership which improves ratings... viewing victims, they still have their unresolved issues which now are floating untreated, again in many.. floating on the surface.
True Dough
(17,311 posts)I'm hopeful there will be lasting and meaningful change as a result of the purge that is occurring. As a result of all of this, women should find it easier to come forward and know they will be heard and given credence when they report sexual harassment/assault in the workplace and elsewhere. That doesn't mean due process shouldn't take place. It should, but we should be well beyond the time when women are being threatened with losing their jobs/status if they dare to speak up and are given short shrift by the media and the public.
These incidents will hopefully make it easier to put a stop to persisting predatory behavior of the Harvey Weinsteins and Roger Ailes of the world.
rock
(13,218 posts)I do NOT appreciate accusations without support for those claims. The more radical the charge the better the evidence should be. (I can't remember exactly how Asimov put it.)
FarPoint
(12,409 posts)We can not follow the media bait with these accusations and also carry their water as well via Facebook and Twitter along with cable news chatter.
This Trial by Media is very dangerous waters we tread....
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)record...is it really fair to allow such charges to be made by anonymous sources?
True Dough
(17,311 posts)as much as you want to believe your own words, Al Franken has not, at any point, denied that he's groped women. He has not said that such behavior is absolutely out of the question. He has made mealy-mouthed statements saying that he feels badly that he caused the first two accusers discomfort. In regards to the latest two, he's said he can't really respond without knowing who they are.
What does that tell you? It should open your eyes to the fact that Al Franken is NOT expressing his unmitigated innocence.
It's sad when people let their political partisanship blind them to the obvious.
Demit
(11,238 posts)I don't blame him for waiting until his accusers come out from behind their anonymity. I believe that's why he has called for a formal ethics investigation. Let's get it all out in a proper venue.
If Senate Republicans drag their feet on opening said investigation, it tells me that they'd rather leave the allegations hanging in the air. They don't want Al Franken to have his day in court, as it were. They'd rather he be hanged in the court of public opinion.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)Mrs. not a 'bible' between us is rightwing...you want to pile on a Democrat for nothing...then do so but be prepared to live under Republicans...is that what you want?
True Dough
(17,311 posts)I won't sacrifice principles and values at any cost. Clearly some here will, which is truly a shame. There are those who have posted that even if Franken is guilty as accused, he shouldn't resign. To them, it's all about the number of seats. We should care about the track records of those who occupy those seats.
I have nothing more to say about Franken until either more accusers come forward, if there are any more, or an ethics investigation is completed. But if he did grope women, I won't be prepared to cut him any slack.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)to the GOP tune. The most immoral thing we can do is allow the GOP to continue to destroy this country...and I won't fall for their bullshit. You want to win then accept no man or woman is perfect and move on. Nothing that Franken has been accused of warrants a resignation...they are just trying to weaken him so they can get the seat...and only very foolish progressives will join in.
treestar
(82,383 posts)means wondering how you can make something like this up for political purposes.
True Dough
(17,311 posts)If it's the truth?
treestar
(82,383 posts)he does not have to say anything. What a medieval view. Why are we going to handle such power to people for mere accusation? That leads to awful places. You think you should have to respond if someone makes up something about you? You hand others that kind of power over you?
True Dough
(17,311 posts)to think a denial is handing power over to someone else.
If your approach was so effective then Franken should have remained silent. Instead, he has offered weak pronouncements whereby he acknowledges feeling badly for having made women "uncomfortable."
I can tell you with 100% certainty that if I were in Franken's shoes, I would be yelling from mountain tops that there is no way, no how that I EVER touched any of these women inappropriately. And you know why I would be so secure in making that statement? Because it's the truth.
treestar
(82,383 posts)You are letting anyone say anything and have that force someone else to deal with it. That is unfair. He may not have time to deny it. Maybe he's working on something more important. Maybe he does not want to dignify this shit storm by reacting. Look how many things Obama ignored. Do you require him to have to shout that he was born in the US?
It is horrible to allow people to control us by making mere accusations. Make THEM prove it.
True Dough
(17,311 posts)But he had time to issue these responses:
"I respect women," Franken stated. "I don't respect men who don't. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed."
"I feel badly that Ms. Menz came away from our interaction feeling disrespected."
He's feeling badly and ashamed.
Someone approaches you in a supermarket and says, "treestar, I saw you slip that candy bar in your pocket. That's theft!"
Are you going to say, "I feel badly and ashamed that you think I would do such a thing," or are you going to say, "You're mistaken. I would never steal a candy bar!"
treestar
(82,383 posts)I am not going to let them control me like that. You want to give people power just for saying something about another. That's unjust and wrong. It is too easy. Let THEM call the cops. My saying anything is not going to change their minds if they are after me like that. In fact, they will find a way to use what I say against me even if it is a denial.
adigal
(7,581 posts)I don't think anonymous accusers are acceptable in a court of law. If Roy Moore's accusers, who were TEENS at the time and had a lot worse things done to them, can come forward with their names, then so can these women.
And I would say the same exact thing if anonymous women came forth accusing Trump and Moore. No name, no accusation.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)I like Al Franken but this is wrong! I can't believe how many my fellow "Liberals" are coming up with every excuse they can think of to defend Al Franken & some even victim blaming by questioning why these women would wait so long to say something. Maybe because they feared a vicious backlash from many of us on the Left & figured no one would believe them?
I thought we were different.
treestar
(82,383 posts)don't act like a right winger when arguing.
question everything
(47,487 posts)and not run again in 2020. We should not be the ones backing backwards to accommodate them.
Ms. Toad
(34,076 posts)This isn't about Moore, Republicans or politics - it is about women whose lives have been impacted by sexual harassment or abuse - and yes, we should be bending over backwards to accommodate "them," since we've been lining up to spit on them for years.
Unfortunately, there is far too much of that still going on on DU. Making the issue about politics - not the victims - is a very mild forf of it.
question everything
(47,487 posts)I am not discounting the "Me Too" women. But I think that, in the long run, healthcare, tax "reform" the environment, our future is being eviscerated by the Republicans. Yes, even the Russia investigation is a distraction. We cannot remove our eyes from what Trump and the Republicans are trying to do to our future, the dismantle of every benefit that has been made since the New Deal.
We cannot win the battle - Russia, sexual harassment - and lose the war: middle class that is thriving.
Because if they win -"they" mean the right wingers - we will not be able to do much with sexual harassment complaints. They will dismantle any avenue that we still have. Including the free press.
Yes, the issue IS about politics, politics meaning our every day life.
Ms. Toad
(34,076 posts)right now?
Not acceptable. Women have been sitting in the back of the bus for far too long on matters of sexual abuse/harassment. Thanks to the #MeToo movement, people are finally acknowledging the pervasiveness of sexual harassment and abuse. Now is not the time to question the motives (or excuse men) based on party affiliation.
Although I don't think it means Franken has to resign, for example, it may mean some of the "good guys" do have to go, if their transgressions are as serious as Moore and Trump, for example. It is critical that we don't turn this into party-based politics. If our guys (or women) can't keep their hands to themselves they need to face the same level of condemnation for equivalent offenses as the Republicans - taking into account their acknowledgement of their offenses and their attempts to make amends.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)Senator doesn't run...not falling for right wing bull shit...sad so many here do.
question everything
(47,487 posts)Sadly, Minnesota has been turning purple (blame Prince? the Vikings 
)
Hillary carried the state by only 1.5%. Both legislative bodies are now Republicans so I am not sure that Franken can win in 2020. But then, a lot can happen until then.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)VMA131Marine
(4,140 posts)Franken is in the wrong and so are you. He's toast!
FarPoint
(12,409 posts)Find alleged claims valid without due process and evidence....
adigal
(7,581 posts)Let's see how that goes over with the GOP.
If you make an accusation against someone, you can't be anonymous. It makes it impossible for the accused to defend him/herself.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)There is no reason for him to resign. Anonymous people are BS. I fully believe they are just Mercer/Bannon/Stone plants.
cstanleytech
(26,299 posts)should offer his resignation on the sole condition that Donald do the same and watch the Repugnants try to squirm out of it then when the shoe is on the other foot.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)There is no reason for us to say things like he is toast or he should resign.
cstanleytech
(26,299 posts)on the offer.
What it would accomplish though would be to put the Repugnants on the defensive again and it would be a difficult one for them to wiggle out from.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)I'm glad he's called for one.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)and some are just gullible enough to believe this bullshit before Franken has his say.
Take the Radio host..she was reading from a script and she was lying. Roger Stone knew these accusations were coming 48 hours before the first accuser came forward..This is a damn Right Wing Nut conspiracy and in the end Franken will be cleared.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)at defending himself?
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)
tenderfoot
(8,437 posts)eom
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,746 posts)
dflprincess
(28,079 posts)Just the fact they went to HuffPo after Arianna made fools out of the right wingers who tried to make something out of her PR photos with Al makes me suspicious. Why not go to one of the local news outlets?
The right wing has hated Franken as long as he's been involved in politics and they are out to get him and we know they aren't above lying.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,746 posts)But the other complainants against other alleged harassers, including Orange Foolius, have not remained anonymous, so there's that. It's always reasonable to be skeptical of anonymous sources.
nycbos
(6,034 posts)... it makes you more angry.
Irish_Dem
(47,135 posts)questionseverything
(9,656 posts)thinkaboutit
a guy who has been in the public eye for years ,who has the support of the women he worked with at snl and the staffers he that worked for him in the senate...all these women who know him well, say he treated them with dignity and respect
but we are supposed to believe that he is such a perv that in public with many witnesses milling around he gropes women he is trying to get to vote for him?
pure right wing noise
Irish_Dem
(47,135 posts)Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)accusers are rightie bullshit artists...and now we have anonymous sources...not believing any of it.
hay rick
(7,625 posts)Anonymous copycats are so much more credible.
delisen
(6,044 posts)There is an ethics investigation coming up. I say let them deal with it.
Wise to wait but too many Democrats the the bait and thus obscure the fight on taxes and net neutrality.
And the media is only too happy to dilute their coverage on these two momentous issues...their advertisers and ownership interests approve. I made calls today and I will do the same after Thanksgiving.
ClarendonDem
(720 posts)For Roy Moore too?
delisen
(6,044 posts)and a pattern of behavior involving high school age girls.
He also has been twice removed from the Alabama Supreme Court for failure to uphold the Constitution of the United States.
He also has not answered questions about his involvement with a non-profit charity that has paid him over one million dollars without reporting that amount as required.
I try to avoid engaging in false equivalencies and I see a comparison of Franken and Moore as a false equivalency.
ClarendonDem
(720 posts)Roy Moore wasn't removed from the Supreme Court for sexual improprieties, and his charity has nothing to do with the allegations of sexual impropriety. Dems want Roy Moore to drop out because of accusations of sexual assault against young women. How are those accusations -- which are unproven -- different from the sexual assault allegations against Franken?
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)"How are those accusations -- which are unproven -- different from the sexual assault allegations against Franken?"
The 4 claims against Franken were from adult women (2 of which are anonymous and hiding).
The 8 claims against Moore are from teenagers, and have identified themselves.
There is evidence that Moore pursued relationships with teenagers while in his 30s.
There is no evidence that Franken has pursued anyone.
Denzil_DC
(7,244 posts)That poster can't post on this thread any more.
I'm reserving judgment on these latest allegations because they're anonymous.
Despite the repeated, almost feverish, false equivalences being peddled above and below, the allegations against Moore are far far worse, identifiable witnesses have come forward, and there are strong circumstantial testimonies by named individuals, rather than hearsay, which is all we have for these latest two allegations at the moment.
(I'm also posting here because I don't want to serve an another jury on this thread!)
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Our underbridge dwelling denizens are burning accounts at a furious pace lately.
That Franken called for an investigation, while Trump and Moore deny and distract - says a lot to me.
I've met Franken and shook his hand.
Denzil_DC
(7,244 posts)for whatever reason. Their poor fingers must be worn to the bone.
delisen
(6,044 posts)If you are unwilling to see the differences when so many have pointed them out, I can't help you.
brush
(53,792 posts)The first two did and their stories fell apart pretty quickly.
How can anyone accept anonymous rumors?
Let's get the investigation started and let them testify in open court.
rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)It's basically a hit job on Franken.
bdamomma
(63,883 posts)Senator Franken is being targeted. At least he is asking to be in front of the Ethics Committee. I think that pig Moore should do the same thing, but this guy is too arrogant and ignorant.
hay rick
(7,625 posts)He is being elected- or not. I think the seriousness of the allegations and the credibility of the accusers are also very different.
ClarendonDem
(720 posts)The credibility of accusers against Moore are "very different" than the credibility of the 4 women who have accused Franken of sexual assault?
DU members spent the last several weeks attacking Moore and saying he should drop out, but too many dismiss similar claims against Franken because Franken is a Dem.
spooky3
(34,460 posts)Pattern emerging. At this point, I want to wait for the investigation.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Or is that just cops being cops?
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)anonymous? And those who do accuse him closely linked to Keith Olberman or George Soros??
No.
Moore got the benefit of the doubt at first, but 9 women are on the record, not anonymously, saying Moore assaulted or harassed them or pursued them when they were 16. So we are well beyond doubt with Moore.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and none of it is about the issues. Is there any reason Moore should not be elected because of his positions on the issues?
And what about Al Franken's positions on the issues? Those are inconsistent with treating women lightly. They want us to lose him because of that. While they will seat Moore with a smile. Stop letting the hypocrites play us.
We should oppose Moore because of how he will vote in the Senate. The Pussy Grabber won so it is obvious that these types of things will not hurt them.
ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)We got the skinny on the first two. If they stay anonymous we. Can't do that. Bullshit smear campaign here.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)To add to the numbers, to convince those people who believe it all so long as there are multiple accusations. Make them prove it and it will be clear they can't.
Beakybird
(3,333 posts)Thank God, MN has a Democratic governor.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)
pangaia
(24,324 posts)When the first accusation came out, I believed it to a T, and sadly so.
But then....turns out, it didn't pass the smell test.
This time, I will doubt first and accept later if warranted.
Is that fair enough?
aeromanKC
(3,325 posts)Franken is begin set up. Tweeden story is BS. That pic was posed. The Fair pic is BS. That whole Scenario is BS. And now anonymous accusations..?? I call BS. The GOP has been sitting on this take down deciding to use it now just as the Moore story is blowing up. The GOP is trying to one, take down a Progressive powerhouse who is possibly looking at 2020 noise especially as a VP and who is one of the strongest voices for Women's Rights in Congress and two, give them some cover for voting for a pedophile for Senate.
The other Sex assault stories are credible, Conyers, Weistein, Spacey, Trump and Moore et al, BUT NOT Franken's.
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)We have a accusation made on FOX to Hannity that has been pretty much debunked (ie. folks coming out and saying that the accusations don't jibe with the way they remember things.)
We had a story of Franken groping Ariana Huffington, which SHE debunked.
We have a woman saying Franking 'grabbed her butt' while having her picture taken with him at a State Fair. Only person she told was her husband. No other info given.
We have two anonymous accusers.
Contrast that with the people who were on the tour saying the incidents didn't happen the way they were portrayed. We have Franken staffers saying they were always treated with the upmost respect.
Contrast that with Roy Moore's accusers, who told people about the incidentnts at the time they happened. As did Trump's accusers.
Yet everyone is jumping on Franken. I, personally, think it is a orchestrated hatchet job to a) get rid of Al who is an articulate Senator and a meticulous fact checker and b) to reduce the heat on Moore and Trump.
ClarendonDem
(720 posts)Posted about it on Facebook. Doesn't that count?
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)And how do we know they did if we don't know who they are, since they talked to Huffington anonymously?
ClarendonDem
(720 posts)And sorry, should have said "woman," not "women," and talking about the second Franken accuser. She posted at the time it happened that Franken "molested" her. Lots of stories on this point.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)A Facebook friend of hers, after seeing her posted photo, commented decisively that Franken was touching her. Her Facebook friend was obviously not a Franken fan. Seems to me the woman was riffing on her friend recoiling that she was so close to Franken in the photo. Her friend apparently took it as a joke too, since she did not reply with shock or tell her to report it, etc. Also, if someone actually grabbed your butt, you would say they grabbed butt, not that they "molested" you. Her whole story is off.
rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)
icymist
(15,888 posts)All this nameless accusers is nothing more than hear-say. Anyone could be saying this.
ClarendonDem
(720 posts)But anyway, here's a link to a story discussing the fact that Franken's accuser posted about it on Facebook in 2010. http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/al-franken-inappropriate-touch-2010/index.html
And here's the excerpt:
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Her sister was obviously not being serious either.
brush
(53,792 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 27, 2017, 04:14 AM - Edit history (1)
spooky3
(34,460 posts)Time that she posted a photo, instead of AFTER her sister kidded her about standing so close to Franken? It’s either a lame joke, or a weird non-sequitur.
As Judge Judge says, after questioning a litigant into a pretzel, “if it doesn’t make sense, it’s not true.”
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)It was only alluded to in the story, no one has seen it, and they can be backdated. That means nothing.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)bible between them ...than the other one says yeah he is a 'perv'. Trump voters. And the timeline was changed...very suspicious...right wing plot...don't help them...some just hate Democrats and enjoy piling on when the GOP goes on the attack...no not saying you. I have no idea what your motivations are.
brush
(53,792 posts)riverwalker
(8,694 posts)I feel like I did during Clinton /Monica. What is wrong with people, why the hell do they do these things? Damn damn damn
adigal
(7,581 posts)I don't listen to anonymous complaints. Period.
Squinch
(50,956 posts)But there are not.
I'm usually the first to defend accusers of sexual harassment, but this smells to me right now.
Bring on the hearings. I suspect he'll come out of them just fine.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)"Anonymous" accusers. Gimme a break.
He is still probably toast though.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Time to stand up and clearly shine a light on the massive double standard.
Why do Democrats always bow down before moral double standards?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)icymist
(15,888 posts)Anyone can be saying these things. Until someone comes forward and is a real person, not 'speaking as anonymously', these should not be taken seriously. It smells like a set-up hit job.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,036 posts)Whether we're talking about Franken, Trump or Roy Moore.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)....the "waterfall" has been shut off.
sakabatou
(42,159 posts)stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Zachary Roth, a former MSNBC reporter, is the founder and editor of The Daily Democracy and the author of The Great Suppression: Voting Rights, Corporate Cash, and the Conservative Assault on Democracy.
Jenavieve Hatch is the Associate Women's Editor at HuffPost.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)No one said it couldn't be reported. But "anonymous" claims means the dam is intact and the village getting washed out isn't happening as you thought it would. Sorry.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Anonymous doesn't mean that the reporters themselves did not do their due diligence to determine if the claims are credible enough to publish.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)And it's bullshit too. Just like these anonymous women too afraid.
Makes you sad doesn't it? You want it to be true just to make your point.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Have you seen it?
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)You and John Snow...
Squinch
(50,956 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Was that one also not credible?
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Is that correct?
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)
videohead5
(2,178 posts)Either...he's been happily married for years.the women at SNL and the ones on his staff says he always treated them with respect.
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)suddenly coming out incidents. Wonder why all of a sudden? What or who has Franken pissed off? Is this the mean to silence him. There has been no solid evidence to even prove any of these alleged incidents.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What do you think is going on?
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)That's one thing.
pandr32
(11,589 posts)brush
(53,792 posts)It's a set-up to get rid of an outspoken Dem. who destroyed Sessions, and to also cover for trump and Moore by being able to say: "See, Democrats do it too".
a kennedy
(29,675 posts)Will he survive this??? And how many before it starts to MAKE AN IMPACT??? A couple I can talk my way out of thinking it did happen....now #3 & 4??? I’m sick, just sick.
BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)It is Al Franken’s turn in the barrel...
flotsam
(3,268 posts)as to suggest a sitting US Senator should resign because two Trump voters-one of whom is tied to Fox, and two anonymous people claim he once did something that is not even a crime in any state I know of. If you truly don't recognize this for the attack it is and that is was manufactured to distract from current events the I'll wager you lack the sense that god gave geese...
Strelnikov_
(7,772 posts)
HeiressofBickworth
(2,682 posts)Many years ago, as I was standing at the copier in the office, a new employee came up beside me and placed a hand somewhere between my hip and my butt cheek and spoke to me.
I (female) nicely said that it may have been acceptable in the employee's former office in (don't remember which state) but in our area it wasn't acceptable for employees to touch one another. Apologies offered and accepted. Incident over. No hard feelings. Worked together for a number of years afterwards.
Was this sexual harassment or merely an innocent gesture, the same as touching someone's arm when talking. Would it have been different if the employee was a women? By the way, it was a woman. Like I said, shades of grey.
I agree with Sen. Franken that there should be an investigation to determine where these incidents fall on the spectrum before sentence is passed.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)The bathroom comment sounds like a joke. The butt-grabbing could be meant to be. The 2010 Facebook comment ("Franken totally molested me" ) sounds like at least a half joke. This is not to excuse anything or anyone.
dhill926
(16,347 posts)this doesn't smell right to me....but let's see....
mountain grammy
(26,626 posts)Wake up. This is what was done to Hillary for 30 years. Hit job.
a kennedy
(29,675 posts)I just can’t handle to many more accusers. 
oberliner
(58,724 posts)VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)I spent months telling everyone who would listen that the Lewinsky thing was BS made up by Republicans.
August was a tough month.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 23, 2017, 05:23 AM - Edit history (1)
I just didn't think he should lose a Presidency over a consensual sex act.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Just saying, Democrats aren't saints. Sometimes our side does somewhat less than proper things. Of course, the right-wingers take full advantage of that to a ridiculous extreme, but that does not mean that there has not been some inappropriate conduct from Democrats over the years.
When Bill went on tv and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" I believed him. And I gave hell to anyone who didn't.
mountain grammy
(26,626 posts)I remember hearing it and thinking, that’s true..this country was founded by rich, white men and it’s been a battle ever since to stay in charge. They just won a big one.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)This was before President Clinton had admitted to the affair.
mountain grammy
(26,626 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)But what was being said with respect to Monica Lewinsky turned out to be true.
In this case, the right-wing is trying to bring down Al Franken, but that does not mean that all the accusations are lies.
mountain grammy
(26,626 posts)but they are always exaggerated. I remember her making this remark during the Whitewater, Ken Starr investigation, but didn't remember it was in regard to Lewinsky. I do believe in a right wing conspiracy, but there's nothing covert about it.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)
alarimer
(16,245 posts)The same is true for all accusers of anyone, really. Unless you are prepared to testify under oath, upon pain of perjury, your story is worthless. Especially in the absence of any other evidence.
I think that is a simple standard. Anyone can make accusations against anyone else anonymously. It means nothing.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Otherwise they would not have published the story.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Besides anonymous sourcing is weak tea.
adigal
(7,581 posts)And if I'm anonymous, how can anyone prove it? Or not?
brush
(53,792 posts)Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)anonymous accusations are never credible...only those who want to believe it would consider such things factual.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Gives too much power to anyone who wants to try it out as a way to bring someone down.
bluestarone
(16,976 posts)Al called for an ethics investigation.(Which is more than moore did) We all need to let this play out and not jump to conclusions! I support him til proven different. That's only fair to him
Response to oberliner (Original post)
Post removed
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Not even close.
VMA131Marine
(4,140 posts)And you know that!
a kennedy
(29,675 posts)I’m sick about Al’s behavior.....but ROY IS A PIG and Al is a piglet.
VMA131Marine
(4,140 posts)irrelevant!
brush
(53,792 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 23, 2017, 04:28 AM - Edit history (2)
two anonymous sources who won't even come forward say something and you jump on the "Franken is a piglet" bandwagon?
Let an investigation play out and let these accusers testify under oath then we'll know for sure. Until then, it's best to reserve judgment.
Hell, I could call in to HuffPo anonymously right now and say I'm the fifth one whose ass he grabbed.
This could very easily be a concerted repug effort to bring down a Dem stalwart and give cover for trump and the repugs putting child molester Moore in the Senate.
And btw, the Moore accusers are not anonymous sources.
They are real women, two of whom have been interviewed on national TV — a huge difference than two anonymous people.
If it's proven, he steps down.
pandr32
(11,589 posts)Apparently, he saved it for casual photo ops and social encounters with strange women who could have slapped him, called him out, and/or otherwise humiliated him on the spot in front of others or, at least in one case, cause a scene with the husband.
It does not seem likely at campaign events or in public where Franken would want to make a good impression.
Not all women speak out about inappropriate sexual behavior they suffer for many reasons. Most women are able to handle a pick-up line without trauma.
However, most women have experienced the type behavior these women describe routinely and would most likely just say "not interested" or get away quickly and continue socializing elsewhere--not giving it a second thought. Not all women are so taken aback at the 'victimization' of such casual behavior they would hold on to it for years and just wait until Republicans are trying to take heat off their own.
Just saying.
I would bet money on more women coming forward--no longer are pictures even required--just their say so. All were "disgusted" on cue.
Let's just wait and see.
groundloop
(11,519 posts)It strikes me as strange that all these accusations against Franken started with a supposed photo of him groping a right wing talking head years ago which was proven to be bullshit. The photo was not taken when she claimed it was, she was wearing a flak jacket which would make it impossible for groping, and his hands weren't even touching her clothing. In short it was just a gag photo (the tastefulness of which is very much up for interpretation).
IF any of these accusations can be proven true my opinion of Senator Franken will be greatly diminished, but in way do any of these accusations compare to a man over thirty years old picking up teenage girls or a powerful man walking into the dressing room of teenage pageant contestants.
pandr32
(11,589 posts)It is a smear--proven to be fake as you say, and so it shouldn't have been reported at all, but if it hadn't would the others have popped up?
I don't think so. The first was the send up.
angrychair
(8,702 posts)This is terrifying position to be put in:
completely random people, from a decade or more ago, making a claim of sexual misconduct that you have no ability to defend yourself against.
I completely agree that sexual misconduct and rape do happen but accusations like this, you don’t know the person and it was was said to have happened at a random place a decade ago, no witnesses or evidence of any kind, puts the accused in a position in which you cannot defend yourself. The very act of defending yourself can make you appear as a evil asshole who has no remorse.
I strongly and unequivocally believe victims of rape and misconduct (I myself was sexually molested as a child on several occasions by two different people) but not every accusation is true but every accusation has very real consequences for the accused.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)So really no way to defend oneself against anonymous accusations.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Something along those lines.
hay rick
(7,625 posts)And memories being the way they are, it might not be true, even if you believe it.
spooky3
(34,460 posts)believed, in the past, even when there was very good reason to believe them. You may feel you have to walk a fine line and choose your words carefully and can't issue the blanket and forceful denial that you might feel is appropriate.
JI7
(89,252 posts)spooky3
(34,460 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)They aren't acceptable in court and people should ignore them. If they women want to be taken seriously, they need to give their names and go on the record. Otherwise, it's easy to say anything happened.
And I would say the same thing if anonymous women accused Moore and Trump.
Vogon_Glory
(9,120 posts)These are the days of Paula Jones, Roger Stone, Info Wars, and James O’keefe’s “Project Veritas,” not to mention that paragon of fair, balanced, professional journalism like Fox News. 
Unlike many Democrats , I have learned to treat such claims with scepticism and want more than anonymous sources.
The question we progressives fail to ask is Cui Bono?
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,011 posts)"It's difficult to respond to anonymous accusers." True.
Denzil_DC
(7,244 posts)These are anonymous allegations. Whether they're telling the truth or not, the article's claim to credibility at the moment is based on the reputation of Zachary Roth.
If the women involved want to pursue their complaints but don't want to give up anonymity (given the response to previous allegations, even on DU, maybe understandable, but it could open the floodgates to any number of allegations against anyone), there are provisions for them to do so under the Senate Rules of Procedure:
(1) sworn complaints, defined as a written statement of facts, submitted under penalty of perjury, within the personal knowledge of the complainant alleging a violation of law, the Senate Code of Official Conduct, or any other rule or regulation of the Senate relating to the conduct of individuals in the performance of their duties as members, officers, or employees of the Senate;
(2) anonymous or informal complaints
(3) information developed during a study or inquiry by the Committee or other committees or subcommittees of the Senate, including information obtained in connection with legislative or general oversight hearings;
(4) information reported by the news media; or
(5) information obtained from any individual, agency or department of the executive branch of the Federal Government.
https://www.ethics.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=551b39fc-30ed-4b14-b0d3-1706608a6fcb
This report as it stands is hearsay. If it was against Moore or Trump or whoever, I'd be disappointed but understanding if the alleged victims wanted to remain anonymous, but I would just have to consider it as possibly relevant but unproven evidence in the context of any other allegations. What the committee'd make of it, let alone anybody else, is another matter.
hay rick
(7,625 posts)Even if he did nothing or nothing is proven, this story will not be allowed to die a natural death.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Seems pretty much impossible.
Denzil_DC
(7,244 posts)I'll cut Franken the same slack I cut his earlier named accusers (and heaven knows I took some flack for refusing to smear his first one, the second didn't provoke quite the same furor, maybe because there were no photos).
So your question cuts both ways.
Especially with anonymous sources quoted at one remove (at the moment at least) - hearsay, in other words, no matter how credible anyone may think the reporter.
hay rick
(7,625 posts)Ordinary rules of evidence don't apply in the court of public opinion. The cynic in me wonders how Franken was polling in 2020 presidential preference polls before Leann Tweeden fired the first shot.
Answering my own question- I'm going with Bumghazi.
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)At the time of the purported event, did the person making the accusation talk about it to anyone else (preferably not an intimate family member)? Several of Donnie's accusers told bosses and/or friends about the event soon after it happened. Several of Moore's accusers did likewise.
The one event regarding Frankin where there is (sort of) a picture, several people have come forward saying that the event did NOT take place the way it was described to Hannity. Then we have one woman saying that Frankin grabbed her butt at the state fair, in public, in full view of the crowds, yet the one picture shows her apparently happily head-to-head with Frankin smiling for the cameras. If someone was grabbing my butt while I was having my picture I don't think I would look all that happy. And, apparently, the only person she told about it was her husband. The other two accusers have done so anonymously, so I have to discount that completely.
By the way, in the interest of being contemporaneous, I was in DC last week and saw Elizabeth Warren heading into the Capitol. I told her how much I approved of her and asked if I could get a picture of us. Mrs. Stonepounder snapped the picture. Warren then grabbed my butt and whispered in my ear that we should go back to our hotel and have a threesome. I've been meaning to call Hannity and see if I can get an invite to his show to tell him all about it.
P.S. Do I really have to add a tag for the last paragraph?
Denzil_DC
(7,244 posts)and I'm reading about, so I'm a witness, and you seem plausible with your 100% chance of serving on juries and the fact I know your name.
So Elizabeth may be in trouble in a decade or so, I guess.
That's the problem with irresponsible journalism like this: it feeds cynicism - not least mine. I really resent that.
There's no excuse for running this with anonymous sources.
If the women wouldn't come forward and be identified on the record, all that exists is the testimony of one of the journalists who actually wrote the article! So they should have sat on it. If somebody else came forward willing to be identified, then they could write that they have these allegations as contributory background. The timing's so cynical even if they're not making it up - clickbait for a current mediastorm.
To possibly cap it all, there's a rumor on Twitter at the moment that Franken's staff can't find any evidence of Franken being at the state fair where the first woman of this batch says it happened!
It has about as much credibility as this story at the moment.
The rumor does exist, by the way, I'm not joking. I've no idea whether it will pan out in reality, but Franken's staff may well be going through his records right now to check.
And if he has an alibi, well ...
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)Both told/texted other people contemporaneously.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)would cause trouble for a Democrat...and so did the reporter...my opinion...they wanted to cause trouble for Democrats period...just like the other two. We have so called progressives running as GOP so you can't be sure about anyone's motivation...say who you are...no one has the right to make anonymous accusations.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)Zachary Roth, the founder and editor of The Daily Democracy and the author of The Great Suppression: Voting Rights, Corporate Cash, and the Conservative Assault on Democracy, is apparently in league with the Women's Editor at Huffpo, and they got two women to lie for them. And another choir member, the woman's best friend, and all their other sources. And Roth is lying about being told by the second woman at the time of the incident. And other people she told are also lying. And they got a time machine to go back and make Facebook posts on October 12, long before the Roy Moore controversy started.
All those things have to be true. Or you can accept that Franken shows a pattern of behavior that he isn't exactly denying.
As for anonymous accusations, do you apply the same standard to whistleblowers?
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)site but now is all in on Franken? I Just don't buy it.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)at the time. He's not anonymous.
So, your theory seems to be that Roth himself is lying---and is involved in a conspiracy with others who are lying, yes? At least 5-10 people involved in this article are outright lying.
Denzil_DC
(7,244 posts)The extent of the evidence is that Roth claims it to be true, the clincher for you being he claims to have been told about it some years ago. He, not 5-10 people, is the peg on which this hangs, otherwise all there is is anonymous claims
That's a low bar of evidence. But you seem very invested in believing it, and posting about your belief at a frantic rate.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)But decided to keep it quiet? Why? To protect the same anonymous source who is still anonymous?
Why wasn't the information released "contemporaneously"? The "source" is in exactly the same amount of jeopardy now as they were then.
That raises huge questions about THE REPORTER'S credibility.
The reporter had the exact same opportunity to release this "information" back then and not reveal the accuser.
This story stinks.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)or is being duped...his site gave the benefit of the doubt to Kevin Spacey but not Franken? Suspicious...maybe another Dem hating left left person...who only helps the right.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The off-color quip comes amid multiple allegations of sexual misconduct against Jones's special election opponent, Roy Moore.
"On another note, Doug Jones fondled me on a boy scout camping trip in 1978," Killen police Chief Bryan Hammond wrote in a Facebook comment, as reported by AL.com.
"I wasn't gonna say anything, but I just couldn't stand the thought of him being a senator. I was ok with it until now. By the way, you can't see me right now but I'm crying as I type this."
Hammond also put up a picture of a yearbook signature, which says: "Bryan, Thanks for the great time camping. Doug Jones."
Hammond was suspended for 15 days without pay.
He told AL.com his comments on Facebook were "sarcasm."
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/361360-alabama-police-chief-suspended-after-joking-dem-groped-him
brewens
(13,598 posts)Sorry. Anonymous doesn't count.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's not like this is just some anonymous peeople posting something on twitter.
Vogon_Glory
(9,120 posts)Lady # 3 and Lady #4 may or may not be telling the truth. I’d like their stories verified (And not by the likes of Alex Jones, Lila Rose, and James 0’Keefe) before I take them at their word.
In these time right-wing self-styled Christians out-lie Ananias and “traditional values” conservatives make a mockery of the rock-ribbed integrity many of us thought some conservatives were gifted with.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Zachary Roth, a former MSNBC reporter, is the founder and editor of The Daily Democracy and the author of The Great Suppression: Voting Rights, Corporate Cash, and the Conservative Assault on Democracy.
Jenavieve Hatch is the Associate Women's Editor at HuffPost.
Denzil_DC
(7,244 posts)I've seen people who are Democrats (I presume) on this board this very night calling for Franken to resign - not because of any proof of guilt, but because they're worried about the electoral consequences!
Maybe Zachary Roth feels that Franken should go, too, and this is a tactic to try to give him another push?
Hey, it's a theory.
I have as much proof of it right now as I have of Roth's story, which is anonymous hearsay - carried in HuffPo. You know, it's not my go-to media outlet when I'm looking for reliable, honest journalism, and never has been.
I first heard Roth's name today (I've never heard of Hatch before either). I've followed Franken's career and writings for over a decade, so I feel I know a little about him. What I'm hearing goes against the grain of that. So I'm going to need a little more convincing evidence before I believe it.
The "corroboration" on all this so far comes from Zachary Roth claiming he was told about this by one of the women years ago. You're apparently relying on his reputation as evidence.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That's what I was responding to in this case.
This story was not published by those right-wing lunatics cited above, it was published by two reasonable left-leaning journalists.
Denzil_DC
(7,244 posts)As I said, I have as much hard proof of that at the moment as they do unless these women identify themselves.
Citing the fact they're "left-leaning" is an appeal to authority, and it's a logical fallacy. I could as easily argue that Franken's a liberal with progressive ideas and a track record of fighting for women's rights (his current efforts to sponsor a bill about rape he and his staff have been working on for a long time have probably been scuppered by all this).
You've said below:
So what happens if every man accused of doing that is automatically assumed guilty and suffers the consequences?
The stance of seeking evidence and proof beyond somebody's say-so - especially an anonymous somebody - has to exist, otherwise the results are obvious.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)and a fabricator of evidence.
Denzil_DC
(7,244 posts)it doesn't matter what Franken has or hasn't done, the fact he's been accused means he has to resign, purely for political expediency. And you apparently already thought that after the earlier allegation.
I have as much reason to believe the reporter "guilty of actual malice" and "a liar and a fabricator of evidence" as I do to believe his claims at the moment.
What I have reason to believe you guilty of, I'm not sure.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Excerpted from the article.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Reporters of this day and age making sure it is true first? 
Journalism today includes spreading rumors.
Snackshack
(2,541 posts)Guilty.
Investigations need to be carried out across the board from Trump on down.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)still_one
(92,242 posts)publicly and address it. Either he engaged in such behavior or he didn't. If he did it, then he needs to come out an apologize for it. If he didn't, he has to come out and deny it, and demand an open investigation immediately
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)still_one
(92,242 posts)and as long as doubt remains about the possible inappropriate behavior, in my view the quickest way to move forward would be for Franken to present his side of the story, otherwise this is going to continue for a long time.
One thing I do believe is that Al Franken should NOT resign or consider it unless it can be guaranteed that a Democrat can fill his seat through 2020. The stakes are too high with the Supreme Court, and other issues, and we need the chance to regain the Senate back in 2018. Any resignation at this time would be reckless, with the potential of a lot of folks being hurt badly for decades to come.
True Dough
(17,311 posts)If he had professed his innocence from the outset, but he hasn't done that. He's been very cautious and acknowledging that he's made women feel uncomfortable. The fact that he called for an ethics investigation is somewhat reassuring, at least. Some honorable part of him rose to the surface, but an outright insistence that he categorically never did such things would have gone a long way, at least for me.
still_one
(92,242 posts)are quite concerned that would open a bag of worms, that they do not wish to pursue, because it sure wouldn't stop with Franken.
The fact that he remains cautious is not a sign of anything, especially in light of what we have seen go on with Al Gore, John Kerry, President Obama, and Hillary The media has little interest in presenting the truth.
When Chuck Todd commented several years ago that it wasn't the media's job to correct falsehoods being said about the ACA, that encapsulates the problem in a nutshell.
CNN gave legitimacy to a discussion in 2016, "Are Jews really human"?
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a50906/are-jews-people-was-a-real/
25-30% of the populous believe that President Obama is not a U.S. citizen. The media's contribution in the swift boating of John Kerry was a disgrace.
Demit
(11,238 posts)It doesn't make accusations immediately melt away. It just makes people think, Well of course you would say that.
True Dough
(17,311 posts)I'm simply stating that I would like to hear a sitting Senator, who has conducted himself with integrity in the Senate chambers, say that he unequivocally never touched women inappropriately. I would be reassured by that, as would many. It's not guarantee that it's the truth, but Franken has enough credibility for it to be meaningful.
There have been a wide range of reactions to accusations: Trump and Moore threatening to sue, Charlie Rose claiming he thought his sexual overtures were mutual, Weinstein claiming he just needs a little time with a therapist.
None of it is bullet proof, and it shouldn't be because there's obviously guilt there in some cases. I would prefer to hear Franken say, "No guilt on my part."
Demit
(11,238 posts)apparently. You want him to be a marionette that responds exactly the way YOU think he should. He wants there to be a formal inquiry so the whole thing doesn't devolve into a he said/she said boxing match decided in the media. You seem to want the boxing match; he wants to be able to confront his accusers.
And no, I know you didn't write "marionette."
True Dough
(17,311 posts)"I didn't touch any women inappropriately."
Wouldn't be difficult to do if it were true, would it? He doesn't have to appear opposite each of his accusers debating the subject.
He has responded to the media's inquiries, you realize. He said a few times that he feels badly for making the women feel uncomfortable. That's not very reassuring.
I welcome the ethics investigation, although I can't help but wonder how many more women will come forward between now and then.
Demit
(11,238 posts)because the meaning of the word "inappropriately" is subjective. Who decides what's inappropriate? The sister of the woman in the photo at the state fair seemed to think that his standing so close to her was inappropriate, when she pointed out they weren't a "bible apart."
Maybe he's just being more nuanced, more thoughtful about the whole thing. Maybe he's trying to remember whether, in the course of two public careers, he might've accidentally touched someone inappropriately. Maybe he's taking into account what someone might've perceived, that didn't jibe with what he knew his intent to be. I don't know and neither do you. Seems to me we should have to allow for whether he even had intent to do what he's been accused of, and so far no one seems to want to allow for that.
You are already anticipating that more women will "come forward." That choice of phrase tells me you already have him convicted in your mind. I sincerely doubt a blanket denial of the current accusations would have set your mind to rest.
True Dough
(17,311 posts)I don't want to see Al go down in flames. I really don't.
Perhaps your take on it is exactly what he has in mind -- that he won't put a label on inappropriate and just let an investigation determine how far he crossed the line, if at all.
Fingers crossed.
Akoto
(4,266 posts)We're talking about a public official committing sexual offenses, here.
Unless they've spoken with law enforcement, identified and stories told for the record, this counts for nothing with me. If they remain anonymous before the public but law enforcement confirms they've spoken to them, that's another story.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)If every woman went to law enforcement every time there was a hand on their butt, there would not be enough police officers in the world to take their statements.
Akoto
(4,266 posts)Until they speak to someone with a little more authority in this situation than a media outlet, I don't acknowledge the report. They could just as easily be people with ulterior motives, such as agents looking to discredit prominent Democrats in order to offset the wave of on the record allegations of abuse and harassment recently faced by Republicans.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)(dirty minded faux Christians)...not a bible between them she says...what a stupid remark...and the other one says...what a perv or molester...you want to believe that is meaningful, you are looking to belive this. And I do not believe Franken played grab ass with a women when he was out campaigning at a state fair and when said woman's husband was taking the picture...a more interesting question is why are some at DU piling on Franken with no evidence.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)four of them.
All describing a very consistent pattern of behavior.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)in this. Why? And now we have anonymous accusers come forward when the first two Righty plants crashed and burned.If one can't see this for what it is then one doesn't want to.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)shit. The reporter should be embarrassed. 'He was staring at my chest'....hahah. And after the benefit of the doubt given to Spacey...I have to wonder if the reporter has an axe to grind with Franken.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)If those women who were TEENS when Roy Moore assaulted them and did far worse things to them, can come forward in a place like Alabama, then these anonymous women need to be forthright as well.
Anonymous accusers don't work in a court of law, and they shouldn't be given credence here. And I would say the same exact thing if women accused Trump or Moore and wouldn't give their names.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)She gave her name.
adigal
(7,581 posts)So I think in her case some perspective is needed. And if Menz said he grabbed her, I believe her. I don't think he should resign over this, but I believe her.
spooky3
(34,460 posts)Be interested in the investigation.
Orrex
(63,216 posts)
MFM008
(19,818 posts)That this is strictly to keep things going with Franken to keep the heat on and the attention scattered.
try and force him to resign.
I would however like to hear Als version of things.
I would just like a statement like Ive never,
or didnt happen or dont know wtf they are talking about.
I still think its a Stone /Bannon hit job
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)That when taking a photo, presumably with a phone camera, Franken may have touched their backsides? You gotta get shoulder to shoulder to fit in the frame of cell phone pictures.
RealityChik
(382 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:58 AM - Edit history (1)
This whole smear has Steve Bannon and Roger Stone all over it. Stone and even Alex Jones tweeted about the smear several hours before the first story broke.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/360726-stone-appeared-to-know-franken-allegation-was-coming?amp
If MSM, including HuffPost had done their homework, they'd have seen all the videos and photos before and after the so-called "offensive kiss. They'd also have viewed photos and videos of Leeann doing "grab ass" on musician Mark Willis and sexually assaulting a married Robin Williams all during the same show. There are also videos of Al Franken performing the same skit with other actresses 3 years before Leeann, and lied about Franken writing that skit especially for her. An easy Google search can unearth all the same proof I found.
And, get a load of this:
http://polipace.com/2017/11/17/leeann-tweeden-says-accepts-al-frankens-apology-claims-planned-attacks/
And regarding the other women, I wouldn't put it past Steve Bannon to mine Facebook for any encounters women have had with Franken and paid these women several thousand dollars to turn a simple photo op into something sleazy. Bannon and his cabal are scared to death that Franken might run for president and win, easily. Better to destroy him early on to take him out of the running.
Haven't you ever been scrunched together for a group photo and had a hand inadvertently land on your butt, either by a man or woman? I have, and it's no big deal, or at least not one that calls for someone's career to end due to an accidental momentary placement of one's hand on the wrong body part! None of this is anything like the accusations leveled by 9+ women at Charlie Rose.
Sure, that unfunny lewd joke photo of Leeann asleep was really stupid but Franken apologized profusely about that. Franken's willingness to participate in a congressional investigation is brilliant because Leeann will either have to lie to Congress which is a felony, or admit the whole scenario was an intentional ploy.
Ok. I'm done. Proceed to flame me if it makes you feel better. This Senator is one of us. We owe it to ourselves to get all the facts before burning any of the good guys at the stake. The Repubs are loving this stuff!
bagelsforbreakfast
(1,427 posts)all the glee certain DU posters have in taking down Franken for alleged unathorized kissing and butt-pinching, by anonymous or seeming-liars or exaggerators versus The Moores of the world hunting 14 year olds at the Mall and email d*ck pics on the other side. Seems like the dictionary definition of False Equivalency.
Hey, maybe Carlos Danger is orchestrating this so Trump will pardon him?!
gay texan
(2,453 posts)At Louis Armstrong Airport in New Orleans in 2006 maybe 2007. I'm reasonably good at reading people and I didn't pick up on a creepy vibe.
I met John Cornyn in Tyler, Tx at the airport in a private flight ops area. That dude freaked me the fuck out. He was not a pleasant person. A vile rude individual. Someone who gets off on power in a bad way.
I saw James Inhofe in Tulsa and my first impression was that he is a five alarm alcoholic. He looked like he was seriously hungover.
Take it for what ever its worth....
mountain grammy
(26,626 posts)This is a hit job on Al Franken.
Freelancer
(2,107 posts)They're the injured parties -- not any of us. We're just disappointed assholes that were handed an opportunity to vent our spleens. In a week some new outrage will be in the forefront. It should be left to those who suffered the indignity of having their butts touched to decide whether Al Franken's career should end, or whether something else should happen.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)why should anyone care what they think...personally I think Franken should sue the facebook one.
Squinch
(50,956 posts)here. Anonymous complaints can be made by anyone.
Lots of anonymous people said Hillary was the leader of a pedophile ring too.
Without more information, there is no basis on which to weigh the credibility of these stories.
Without more information, I cannot be sure this is not a witch hunt.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)And now we have anonymous sources who claim Franken looked at her chest? Come on DU...you are smarter than to believe right wing crap.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)at the time.
He's not anonymous.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)shut the hell up...I am not surprised to see another such post.
Demit
(11,238 posts)"One fellow choir member, Sarah, remembers not only being there for the groping incident but hearing another choir member say that Franken wouldn’t stop looking at her chest."
Crucify him!
I'm sorry, the fact that the writer included this tidbit makes me laugh. They're really piling on now. Yes, let's have an investigation, PLEASE. I want to hear testimony that ten years ago a woman heard another woman say that the accused stared at her chest.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)this.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That kind of thing does tend to make its way into news articles sometimes.
Demit
(11,238 posts)Because, on the scale of serious-to-frivolous accusations of sexual abuse committed by Al Franken, that is definitely the direction these accusations are going.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Certainly relatively to the much more serious accusations being leveled against other politicians.
That being said, they are still significant.
Demit
(11,238 posts)I think they should testify under oath as to what exactly happened, and asked what *they* think such behavior from ten years ago signifies. One woman calls Al Franken a serial groper. If that is so, there should be more stories that are much more recent, yes?
If he has continued this behavior up to the present, then I think that would be significant of something.
Otherwise, you're going to have to spell it out for me what you think the stories are significant of.
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)rtracey
(2,062 posts)These seem to be bandwagon jump-ons. I can say "I remember Sen Frankin touched my dick at a Minnesota Fair in 2007", and say I want to be anonymous. Is there proof/ Are there witnesses? This is not about harassment anymore, this is becoming political.
The Moore victims were NOT anonymous, they came out into the world, showing their faces, not hiding behind their facebook accounts.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)They are not hiding behind Facebook accounts. They spoke to reporters but just asked that their names be withheld, presumably to avoid the sort of online harassment that Linsday Menz has been dealing with.
Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)In this Cretin embracing society of lying assed vermin and the rapid rising of the dregs of humanity, all decency rules have been mocked and shattered. (For this long winded opinion post I am simplifying the terms The Right and The Left as mindsets and political agendas, fully realizing there are exceptions, shades of gray and deviations)
Accountability for personal actions is essential if we are to retain any respect as a nation or individuals. Left, right, male, female.
At this point in time, politically, the “Right” has totally decided to ignore accountability. Their power has destroyed their decency as humans. And they are hell bent on destroying the other decent humans of our nation. Especially their political foes. The “Left” will consistently suffer because, in part, they still answer to a personal accountability while the Right uses their own vacuum of morality and refusal to take any accountability to blame, vilify and destroy the Left. The Right takes a soulless glee in it. They will not stop. The Left will be damaged.
Responsibility. A character value essential to the maintaining of maturity, moral strength, quality and growth of the people of a nation.
The Right has none. The Left still does. While the Right calculatingly refuses any responsibility or seeming guilt for their lack of character, the Left fights, struggles to maintain it. Those embracing responsibility will always have the more intense and difficult battles. The Right smugly rejects responsibility. The Left addresses it. Some of the Right will slip through. Some of the Left will go down.
Anonymity. Not giving a personal name to back a stance, opinion, experience. While this does not obliterate the stance, opinion, experience, it can seriously weaken or even nullify the believability of said stance, opinion or experience.
Sexual aggression, entitlement and harassment is and has been an ongoing, vile epidemic against women, children and the vulnerable for eons, and MUST be addressed and brought to glaring light. The definitions are still being clarified and debated but they are now being rightfully acknowledged. As painful and frightening to the victim, their name is often the price of strength of believability and acknowledgement. It sucks but that is the risk and price.
In an age of blatant, gleeful, practiced lack of accountability and responsibility...anonymity isn’t going to make the grades necessary to advance the discovery of truth and correction.
bluestarone
(16,976 posts)Al charged with ANYTHING? 
Give me a break all the naysayers need to STOP til this is investigated. I'M IN AL'S CORNER TIL THE END 
treestar
(82,383 posts)we have to believe them - is something that has been realized. These are made up to add to the numbers. Don't believe a word of it.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)Sorry but Al had women working with and for him that he had real power over. If no one from the staff of SNL or his movie or his time in the Senate steps forward I will remain skeptical.
The credible allegation about abuse always follow a similar pattern, so far nothing has even remotely fit into the pattern of sexual abuse we see elsewhere.
pfitz59
(10,381 posts)or been accused of criminal conduct. This whole 'scandal' is a smoke-screen and a hit job. No lawsuits have been filed and none of the accusers have volunteered to swear, under oath, at an inquest. Maybe Al did touch someone's butt at an photo op, so what? He admits the simulated groping picture was a bad joke, and apologized for it. Tweedan's 'gross and slimy kiss' is a salacious accusation which is undermined by her own behavior on the USO tour... Calling for Franken to resign over this is over-kill. Go after real predators and sexual deviants... and before jumping all over Al, best recall the many false sexual claims made over the years, from Tawana Brawley, to McMartin Pre-school to the Duke Lacrosse Team. Tweedan and her buddies accomplished their goal, tarnished the reputation of a good man, and put him on the defensive. Don't be willing participants in this fraud.
