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Zorro

(15,745 posts)
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 10:59 PM Aug 2017

Venezuela's New Leaders Begin Their March Toward Total Control

Source: New York Times

Members of President Nicolás Maduro’s governing party marched triumphantly into Venezuela’s Capitol building on Friday, calling to order a 545-member body with plans to rewrite the Constitution and consolidate their power over the nation.

The constituent assembly, as the group is called, took a symbolic jab at their political rivals, parading through the gates of the legislative chamber holding portraits of former President Hugo Chávez, which were taken down just last year after opposition parties won control of the National Assembly.

“This assembly didn’t emerge from nothing,” said Delcy Rodríguez, a former foreign minister close to Mr. Maduro who will lead the body. “It has dodged the obstacles thrown in its way by those who resist democracy.”

The convening of the assembly was the culmination of an ambitious plan by the president to secure political control over Venezuela. In a contentious election on Sunday, Mr. Maduro instructed Venezuelans to choose delegates from a list of allies in the governing party. Voters were not given the option of rejecting the plan.

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/world/americas/venezuela-constituent-assembly-maduro.html

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Venezuela's New Leaders Begin Their March Toward Total Control (Original Post) Zorro Aug 2017 OP
Venezuela's New Assembly Members Share a Goal: Stifle Dissent Zorro Aug 2017 #1
Notice this? "Voters were not given the option of rejecting the plan." Archae Aug 2017 #2
Isn't this straight-up USSR-style bullshit right there? NickB79 Aug 2017 #6
Maduro is a dictator and there is no defending this! hrmjustin Aug 2017 #3
The GOP wants to do this in America... First Speaker Aug 2017 #4
Venezuela's neighbors check in Brewh Aug 2017 #5
According to TeleSur... a Venz State funded channel.. EX500rider Aug 2017 #7
What I found interesting about those quotes rpannier Aug 2017 #9
Doesn't matter. Igel Aug 2017 #10
Don't shoot the messenger Sen. Walter Sobchak Aug 2017 #8
I'll never understand why Liberals give Maduro a free pass. Oneironaut Aug 2017 #11
Same reason they gave Castro a pass for decades - America is evil. nt hack89 Aug 2017 #12
Because he's anti-usa Blue_Tires Aug 2017 #14
Liberals don't--hardcore leftists do. geek tragedy Aug 2017 #19
Yes, I well remember how honest and accurate the NYT . . FairWinds Aug 2017 #13
Which part was lying? EX500rider Aug 2017 #15
Zimbabwe in the Americas hack89 Aug 2017 #16
Kicked out of Mercosur Brewh Aug 2017 #17
The problem is no one wants their crude oil. roamer65 Aug 2017 #18

Zorro

(15,745 posts)
1. Venezuela's New Assembly Members Share a Goal: Stifle Dissent
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 11:01 PM
Aug 2017

The president’s son. The president’s wife. A radical television-show host who appears in a red military beret and broadcasts embarrassing recordings of opposition politicians secretly taped by Venezuelan intelligence agents.

All are among Venezuela’s newest leaders, and the government says they will take their seats on Friday.

A 545-member body, known as the constituent assembly, has been created to rewrite the nation’s Constitution and govern Venezuela with virtually unlimited authority until they finish their work.

It is the culmination of an ambitious plan by the government to consolidate power. In a contentious election on Sunday, President Nicolás Maduro instructed Venezuelans to choose delegates from a list of trusted allies of the governing party. Voters were not given the option of rejecting the plan.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/03/world/americas/venezuela-constituent-assembly-members-maduro.html

NickB79

(19,257 posts)
6. Isn't this straight-up USSR-style bullshit right there?
Sat Aug 5, 2017, 12:17 AM
Aug 2017

You are free to choose from anyone you wish to vote for.

They're all members of the same party, though.

First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
4. The GOP wants to do this in America...
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 11:09 PM
Aug 2017

...right down to a new "constitution"...they and the "socialist" Maduro are brothers under the skin...

EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
7. According to TeleSur... a Venz State funded channel..
Sat Aug 5, 2017, 12:44 AM
Aug 2017

.....mean while in the real world:

The Vatican has joined worldwide condemnation of the assembly by calling for it to be suspended. In a statement, it argued the assembly fomented a "climate of tension" rather than reconciliation and peace.
The European Union and major Latin American nations say they will not recognise the new body.
The election for the constituent assembly was marred by violence and accusations of fraud.
Venezuela's electoral authorities said more than eight million people, or 41.5% of the electorate, had voted, a figure the company that provided the voting system said was inflated.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-40829229

rpannier

(24,330 posts)
9. What I found interesting about those quotes
Sat Aug 5, 2017, 03:21 AM
Aug 2017

was that none actually showed support for the Venezuelan government
The quotes were about right to self-determi9ntaion and support of democracy and so on
None of those actually said one nice thing directly about Maduro or anything positive or negative about the new assembly

I can come out and say "I support the right of Venezuelans to self-determination, to choose their own leaders and their own destiny."
Left there one might reasonably assume I support the election. But, I could add after destiny, "But, I am deeply troubled by what is transpiring right now. It is the opposite of self-determination and destiny."

The quotes (IMO) appear to be cherry picked

Igel

(35,323 posts)
10. Doesn't matter.
Sat Aug 5, 2017, 09:12 AM
Aug 2017

You can read pages and pages of Soviet-era crap and never see the word "Central Committee" or whoever the caesar of the day was.

There's a nice work out under the pseudonym "Peter Fidelius" called Jazyk a moc (Language and power) that looks at the quirky way oppressive systems use language. It's not Lakovian or post-modernist. It simply examines the central logical fallacy underpinning a lot of Marxist discourse: Manipulation of terms in order to convince those at the shallow end of the thinking pool that what they're doing is right. They're people who think in terms of surface symbols instead of what those symbols (such as words) really refer to.

For example, who's against "democracy"? It's good. You can call your pet dog "democracy" or reserve the word for what comes out of either end of your pet dog, and some will reflexively nod, "Democracy good. Ugg hungry now. Feed Ugg." And by "Ugg" I mean the nodder doing the talking.

So Fidelius cites a lot of sources where democracy means "power to the majority of the people, with some safeguard for their rights and due process." But it shifts meanings until finally "democracy" is pretty much whatever a few people say it is. Along the way, those knuckledraggers who don't believe in the right values and virtues are excluded from being people in the democracy, because only those who have the right ideas are allowed to have a say.

"Democracy" may start out as respecting all the people as people, but as it goes from the beginning to the end "democracy" acquires set values and then the demos is stricted to fewer and fewer people, then the authority to speak for the demos is restricted to their leaders who are the true preachers of those set values and who should be followed, and then the set of leaders is restricted from applying to low-ranking people to just the very top honchos. Then "democracy" means doing what the top leaders say. They change the definition in subtle ways as the discourse continues. Unless you're careful about such changes in meaning and spot them, you get snookered. Either you are left saying, "No, I'm against democracy and power held by the people" and can't figure out how you got there, or you're left with a really abstract argument about definitions and various kinds of changes in definitions and how this is a logical fallacy.

Chavez was doing this kind of language manipulation early on. Castro did it. A fair number of people at DU do it--as soon as you say, "In this democracy, you don't take into account those people over there because they're not really people" you've taken one of the first two steps: "We the people" has changed it's meaning from "we the people" to "me and the people I agree with". As soon as you say, "Yes, but there's only one set of right values for a democracy to think about" you've taken the other step, reinforcing step 1 and also saying that some kinds of thinking are bad and shouldn't be discussed or, eventually, allowed to be said (or, eventually, thought). The first leads to authoritarianism, apartheid, oligarchy. You can have an everyday thugocracy with that. You don't work against the thugs in charge, you pay your bribes, and life's brutal but survivable. Unless you're in a theocracy, that covers most of human urban and social history. The second leads to the ideology-based repressive regimes that the 20th century was so noted for. Those are truly nasty, since every word and every act can be interpreted as loyalty or disloyalty to the Cause. You have to watch your thinking to avoid suspicion--not just "am I out to overthrow the government?" kinds of suspicion, but "Am I a traitor to the official ideology and set of values?" In that kind of society, you need to know what is proper and true according to the policy requirements issued that day. Hence "politically correct." Yesterday we are in favor of closer collaboration with Germany, with economic agreements and cultural exchanges; today they're bad guys, and if you miss that switch, decided by a few people at the top, you've committeed a thought crime and potential treason by repeating the mantra, "Germany is our friend" when the government edict time stamped 3:03 a.m. that morning reads "Germany is our enemy."

For members of the Venezuelan constituent assembly, the government is the Democracy (tm), and what the government, Maduro, says are Democratic values (tm). It's built into their language code. To say "Democracy" is to have an implicit "Maduro" or "Chavez". To say "Democratic values" is to say "Maduro's values". To disagree with them is to be opposed to democracy and democratic values. To oppose them is to hate democracy. In this context, the opposite of "democracy" is "rule by the consent of all the people by leaders elected by a majority vote of the entire population."

Oneironaut

(5,509 posts)
11. I'll never understand why Liberals give Maduro a free pass.
Sat Aug 5, 2017, 09:58 AM
Aug 2017

He's doing a great job! ... At starving his people and seizing authoritarian control. He's a leftist version of Trump, but with more control of his government. Then, when you point this out, you either get called a shill or they say that Venezuela is a Socialist paradise that is being ruined by big oil and the CIA.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
14. Because he's anti-usa
Sat Aug 5, 2017, 04:07 PM
Aug 2017

Same reason why a certain segment of the left are always making excuses for Putin, Gaddafi etc.

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
13. Yes, I well remember how honest and accurate the NYT . .
Sat Aug 5, 2017, 02:45 PM
Aug 2017

reporting was during the 2002 coup in Venezuela . .

They did a great job of warming up their lie machine for
the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

(I am a NYT subscriber, but learned long ago to be
bigly skeptical of the MSM)

EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
15. Which part was lying?
Sat Aug 5, 2017, 06:03 PM
Aug 2017

The part where Maduro stripped the opposition-controlled National Assembly of its powers by making up his own?
The part where he put his wife and son in the "new constituent assembly" of hand picked toadies?
Or where he sacked chief prosecutor Luisa Ortega who argued that the president did not have the power to convene it without consulting the Venezuelan people in a referendum first?
Or maybe the part where the company that installs and maintains the voting machines says the count was inflated?
The part where he sacks and jails government critics and opposition leaders?
The part where it's very hard to find food or medicine anymore and people are literally starving?
The 800% inflation?
The highest murder rate in S America?

All lies told by the NY Times and the MSM I suppose...it's really all peaches and cream down there and the desperate Venezuelans I've met wandering the streets in Colombia with no money or place to stay were CIA/BigOil/MSM operatives..

 

Brewh

(13 posts)
17. Kicked out of Mercosur
Sat Aug 5, 2017, 10:01 PM
Aug 2017

Maduro responded by calling the move part of a dirty campaign led by the Trump administration to discredit Venezuela and get its hands on its vast oil reserves.



roamer65

(36,745 posts)
18. The problem is no one wants their crude oil.
Sat Aug 5, 2017, 10:58 PM
Aug 2017

It is a very thick, tarry oil. It takes a special refinery to process it. No one wants it when they can get all of the light Iraqi, Iranian or Saudi crude they can handle at $50/barrel.

Maduro is a nutcase.

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