Hawaii is considering creating a universal basic income

[DonViejo]

Source: Vox



Updated by Dylan Matthews@[e-mail] Jun 15, 2017, 2:00pm EDT

It has a long way to go, but Hawaii is now one step closer to adopting a full universal basic income for all its residents.

Basic income — a plan under which the government would regularly send everyone in a given country/state/city/etc. money just for being alive — has been gaining a significant amount of interest in recent years, with trials ongoing or set to start in Finland, Ontario, and Kenya. The Hawaii state legislature has unanimous passed a concurrent resolution which sets up a “basic economy security working group” tasked with considering the idea.

State Rep. Chris Lee, a Democrat from the Honolulu suburb Kailua who spearheaded the measure, says he first heard about basic income as a concept on Reddit.

His interest in the idea, he said, is motivated by a concern that automation will make good jobs rarer, particularly in a service industry-dependent state like Hawaii. Manufacturing has never been a major part of the economy and while agriculture used to be dominant, the state’s last sugar mill closed last year and the pineapple industry has declined dramatically.


Read more: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/15/15806870/hawaii-universal-basic-income

[yallerdawg]

1. We can do it anywhere if we want.

Excerpt from article:

Hawaii actually wouldn’t be the first state to adopt a basic income, if it comes to that. Since 1982, Alaska has sent out an annual "dividend" from an investment fund financed by revenues from the state's oil industry to every man, woman, and child in the state. The amount fluctuates from year to year according to how the fund’s doing, but can get quite high; in 2015 it was $2,072 apiece (meaning a family of four would get nearly $8,300, no strings attached).

[RKP5637]

3. The money plows back into the society and propels the economy forward. The problems typically faced

are by those that think backwards and just can't seem to comprehend it. ... but eventually, the notion of a job/paycheck in the classical historical sense will be completely obsolete. If the latter does not occur, the economy will collapse.

[xor]

14. I've tried having discussions about this concept with some

I found it interesting how quickly they knee-jerked to "nononono bad bad bad bad" without even discussing the pros/cons of it. Trying to discuss the potential benefits fell on deaf ears. Wouldn't even attempt to form an actual argument against it, but just rejection from the start. The typical response doesn't go much further than "how would we pay for it?" Which obviously doesn't take into account of not paying for it in situation you describe. Which many seem to agree we're rapidly approaching.

They also don't take into account the gains that can be had. People would be more likely to take chances that will lead to innovation. People will be able to relocate to places with more opportunity. People can pursue education. More opportunities for people means less crime. There are also health gains as people are more likely have to free time to exercise (don't need three jobs), eat healthier, and afford routine doctor check ups. We can go on and on, and I'm sure you are well aware of these. It's strange how they refuse to even entertain a real discussion about it.

That being said, there are issues that need to be figured out. Such as how to deal with those who are fully capable but refuse to use the money wisely. But those people are not reason enough to throw out the entire idea.

/rant

[RKP5637]

17. Some just won't make it! Money is like gasoline, it's just fuel to run an economy. Far too many,

way too many, have really childish parochial simple-minded ideas. In the big picture this must be done to head into the future to survive as a society. It's not even worth a conversation with them. They are literally incapable of understanding and will whither sadly by the wayside.

[madokie]

18. the money is there

just look at how much just a few make. Who needs billions of dollars?

Everyone could use a few

[RKP5637]

19. Yep, it could work! Question is, how do we get there. So many Americans are led by propaganda and

are so damn gullible.

[madokie]

20. Have to shut the limbaughs,

hannities, becks and jones the fuck up to start with

We really do need to take back OUR country back from these assholes who siphon all the goods off the top and leave us nothing but scraps

[RKP5637]

21. It's stunning how this nation has allowed a core of assholes to drag it down to such low levels and

to incite so much hostility. I believe in free speech and all of that, but FFS, these assholes are way over the top!

[brooklynite]

4. Not the same...

The Alaska oil fund is essentially partnership share, based on revenue, not financial need. A basic income is PRESUMABLY keyed to some calculation of living costs.

[yallerdawg]

7. No, a Universal Basic Income is not means-tested.

In Alaska, that money - that dividend - goes to each man, woman and child in Alaska.

Of course, if we continue to have a progressive tax rate, the higher income brackets will more than return the money they didn't need.

If we all share in the benefits of technology (a reduction in the necessity of labor) and the profits generated from private ownership and successful entrepreneurship still entrenched in exploitation of 'the commons' - that which we are all entitled to as citizens of this nation (and ultimately, the world) - then we will be close to the egalitarian dream.

Many experiments have been and will be based on "financial need." That has our present political vagaries because it is taking from one "group" and giving it to "another" instead of an equal share for everyone!

The concept of "social justice" has to start from the position that we are all equal - and the worst that could happen to any of us could happen to all of us. No one is better, no one is guaranteed more, no one has an advantage. And that's where a Universal Basic Income gives us all an equal start.

[brooklynite]

9. I understand that it's lost based on INDIVIDUAL need...

...but if it's not based on some estimate of minimum need for everyone, it's just a cash handout.

[yallerdawg]

11. It IS a cash handout.

With NO conditions.

Based on what we need to provide each other a minimum standard of living.

If we want more, or we want to live in New York City or San Francisco, then we make more money (still sharing in 'the commons')!

We aspire for more, we kick in our entrepreneurial spirit and increase personal wealth with innovation and creativity - or write a brilliant book - or make a brilliant movie - or 'follow your bliss' and do whatever you want!

Is this anymore fanciful than, say, "free healthcare for all" or "free tuition for all"?

[roamer65]

16. Oil production at Prudhoe Bay is dropping significantly.

It's so bad that they are having to run cleaning pigs constantly through the pipeline. Alaskan crude has a higher wax content and with decreased volume the faster cooling of the oil causes wax plugs in the pipeline.

The permanent fund is going to have problems soon.

[Massacure]

22. The permanent fun is unlikely to have issues

The fund is worth more than $50 billion dollars, and the principal is constitutionally protected from spending. Dividends are based on five year averages, but on average 47.5% is reinvested in stocks, bonds, and real estate while the remaining amount is distributed equally among the residents of Alaska after fund operating expenses are paid.

[RKP5637]

2. Good! The entire notion of what a job means is going to have to rethought in the 21st century.

Years ago I studied this in economics that eventually this would have to be done. And it makes complete sense if one wants a functioning economic society.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

5. A living wage *and* a beautiful tropical atmosphere?

That place sounds like hell on earth.

[dhill926]

8. I absolutely so don't want to move there....

[Cha]

15. Yeah, it's real bad

[Ccarmona]

6. With Super Majorities in Both of Our House & Senate

It's an ideal situation to get Progressive policies passed and implemented.

[stopbush]

10. Hawai'i is one of the most-expensive states to live in in the USA.

While anything is better than nothing, the question is how much are they talking about on a yearly basis per resident? If it's not much more than enough to offset a trip to the grocery store...

[yallerdawg]

12. Simply:

[lunatica]

13. Doesn't Alaska do something similar regarding the oil companies?

For drilling in Alaska the oil companies pay all the residents some amount don't they?