Passenger: EMT dragged dying woman's half-naked body down aisle of crowded plane at MSP

[question everything]

Source: StarTribune

An emergency responder at the Twin Cities airport dragged the lifeless body of a half-naked woman from the back of a commercial airliner and down the aisle for many people aboard to see, a troubled passenger said Tuesday.

The woman died Monday afternoon after being stricken in the bathroom while on the American Airlines Boeing 737 flying from Dallas to the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, said MSP spokesman Patrick Hogan. Authorities have yet to identify the woman or address what led to her death.

Art Endress was on the flight and said an emergency medical technician (EMT) came aboard with other responders and removed the woman from the back and had her by the hands as he "dragged her down the aisle" as she was faceup and naked from the waist down.

"The EMT was out of line on that one," said Endress, 63, of Dallas. "Also, the flight attendants could have thrown a blanket on her" as her body went past many of the 150 or so seated passengers and off the aircraft, Endress added. The woman appeared to be in her 40s, he said.

American Airlines did not immediately respond to questions on the incident.




Read more: http://www.startribune.com/passenger-emt-dragged-dying-woman-s-half-naked-body-down-aisle-of-crowded-plane-at-msp/428210893/

[madaboutharry]

1. There are too many idiots in this world.

What is wrong with people?

[Dave Starsky]

2. What, is Trump hiring EMTs now?

What trained EMT would do this? They usually cover patient modesty issues in week one of their curriculum.

[gilbert sullivan]

3. Yeah, how dare they try to get her out of the plane as quickly as possible.

Mr. Endress was watching real close.

[atreides1]

5. They could have done it

And still maintained her dignity!!!

[gilbert sullivan]

12. If I'm dying (or dead) I wouldn't give a fusty ruck about dignity.

good grief

[SpankMe]

15. If I was dying or dead...

...I'd probably still give a rusty fuck about, 1) Traumatizing other poor souls who had to watch me be dragged down an aircraft aisle dead and naked from the waist down (especially children) and 2) The embarrassment, traumatization and humiliation of any family members of mine who may have been on that flight with me.

Let's not allow Trump's nastiness to rub off on any DU'ers!

[WinkyDink]

18. Maybe because you're not a woman? We don't pee in front of others, either.

[gilbert sullivan]

30. I flew hundreds of dead people around the country years ago. Some of them were bare naked

Not a single one of them ever complained. (One time, though, an elderly old lady in the folded down seat next to me halfway sat up. Some kind of response to pressure change, apparently. Scared the shit outta me for a minute.)

[SharonClark]

52. Did you kill them first?

[gilbert sullivan]

152. Of course...but very humanely.

jesusfukinchrist.....

[petronius]

68. Out of morbid curiousity, what was your job? (or hobby)?

Were you intentionally transporting dead people outside of coffins/bags/containers? And more than one at a time?

[gilbert sullivan]

153. Pilot. Years ago there were few restrictions on transporting dead people and many families would

opt for the cheapest possible transport...which was a small plane, a pilot, no containers, etc. If they happened to supply one that would fit we would use it but often they expected us to include that amenity. We didn't.

[Hekate]

111. That needs some context. Meanwhile, welcome to DU & enjoy your stay.

[gilbert sullivan]

154. "Enjoy my stay" Is that your way of saying you will use your elite status to get me banned

because you don't agree with my position. How nice.

[Sunlei]

124. this is very odd post. was this in the usa or one of those countries who threw dead? people out of p

planes? really odd post buddie.

[gilbert sullivan]

155. Yeah, like I said, I threw them out of planes.

Except that's not what I said, Einstein.

[Ms. Toad]

72. I'm a woman, and I agree with the person you're responding to.

If there is a possibility my life can be saved - get me to a place you can do what is medically necessary to try to save my life, even if that means sacrificing my modesty.

If it won't delay treatment - then think about modesty - but avoiding transient embarassment is not worth risking my life.

[Honeycombe8]

127. It doesn't take any time to throw a blanket over me. EMTs regularly do that.

Respect for the dignity of people, whether they are ill or dead.

That's why it's a crime to mutilate a dead body. It violates the dignity of the human body and affects the family.

[Ms. Toad]

128. You're not thinking about the logistics.

That blanket is not going to stay on you as you go down the aisle. The aisles are too narrow, and based on her picture she was not a small woman - making it even less likely that the blanket would stay on. I'm pretty darn sure that if your life is immediately threatened as the result of a car accident that ripped your clothes off, the EMT is not going to throw a blanket on you before removing you from the car to provide treatment that will mean the difference between life and death. I know for a fact that doesn't happen in the ER - where even curtains get forgotten in the rush to provide treatment.

There is also a difference between removing a dead body (in which case there is all tthe time in the world to worry about modesty), and trying to save a person whose heart has stopped beating, and for whom the seconds of oxgen deprivation may make the difference between surviving at all - and not only surviving and thriving without brain damage.

THere is also a difference between intentionally mutilating a dead body, and doing whatever is necessary to get the person who is not yet dead to a place where CPR can be effectively performed.

[LanternWaste]

26. Or getting out of the plane as quickly as possible as well?

"I wouldn't give a fusty ruck about..."

Or getting out of the plane as quickly as possible as well? A very good grief, indeed.

[gilbert sullivan]

31. I have absolutely no clue what point

you're trying to make.

[mac56]

54. Welcome to DU.

Please enjoy your stay.

[3auld6phart]

66. Respect and decency

You come across as a total dipstick. Those involved could have handled this so much better. After 30+ years of EMT, we and my fellow partners always handled the sick, dying and dead with decorum. That EMT should have his job taken away.

[narnian60]

74. +100

[jberryhill]

82. I have a question for you as an EMT

If you were going to attempt to use a defibrillator, would you do it on the wet cramped floor of an airplane lavatory, an aisle with lots of people in close proximity, or in a jetway?

[Hekate]

115. As a non-EMT, I would be making a plan on my way to the airport, having been told ...

...the nature and location of the emergency.

[jberryhill]

118. Pretty sure there are EMT's on site

[Hekate]

121. All the more reason for them to have specialized training in how to remove a sick or injured...

...person from a crowded airplane without injuring them further.

[jberryhill]

149. "a troubled passenger" was the sole source of "facts" in the originally-posted story

It seems there are more facts:

http://www.startribune.com/passenger-emt-dragged-dying-woman-s-body-down-aisle-of-crowded-plane-at-msp/428210893/

"She was not half-naked," said passenger Dave Sampsell in an e-mail to the Star Tribune. "Her pants were unfastened, but I saw nothing that any of the airline or EMT staff did inappropriately."

...

The woman, taken off the plane on the tarp-like stretcher that partly covered her, was brought to the jet bridge where emergency workers spent about an hour trying to revive her.

[Laffy Kat]

130. I'm an EMT and absolutely would have covered her.

Both for her own dignity and to spare the other passengers. It's an upsetting event to witness. Doing so would not have slowed them down at all. I think the way this was handled was horrible.

[WinkyDink]

17. Sorry, you're dead wrong here.

[LanternWaste]

25. her death would have worsened beyond hope had they spent precious seconds on a blanket

No doubt, her death would have worsened beyond hope of recovery had they spent four precious seconds on a mere blanket to cover her.

[question everything]

40. You throw a blanket over her while she is being dragged, it should not slow for one second (nt)

[Ms. Toad]

79. The woman is not slender enough for that to be effective.

Airline aisles are very narrow. Anyone who is not Olive Oyle thin would lose the blanket as they were dragged past the first seats.

[SoCalMusicLover]

105. Are You Serious?

You're saying that they could not hold the blanket against the person's body, so it didn't come off? Come on.

[Ms. Toad]

108. Yes. I'm serious.

Explain the logistics, taking into account that the woman's hips are likely slightly wider than the aisle she's being pulled through - so essentially she - and the blanket - will be hiting every seat.

That same logistic makes it impossible for anyone to walk beside her holding the blanket in place.

Her feet will be sticking out horizontally 2-3 feet below her waist. Anyone not tripping over her feet would be unable to hold the blanket near her waist. (Just try walking, leaning over to where the waist of an average height woman would be - making sure to keep your feet behind where her toes would be - and not toppling face-first onto the woman).

From her head end, considering the manner in which they had to hold on to her to move her, it is pretty clear that moving her is all that particular EMT could handle.

Absent an EMT or flight attendant who can hover above her, I'm unaware of any other vantage point from which it would be possible to move with, and hold a blanket against, the person's body in the narrow aisle of a plane (without interfering with the EMT's job by getting in the way, or constantly needing to stop and re-anchor the blanket).

Please feel free to explain the logistics to me.

[jberryhill]

119. Draw me a sketch!

[Hekate]

120. Two EMTs or one and a flight attendant. One EMT-provided blanket or tarp underneath...

...patient (or dead body). Grab one end of blanket or tarp at head of body. If available, another person grabs hold of foot of blanket or tarp. Cannot lift due to narrow aisles, but can pull more effectively than by simply grabbing arms of dead-weight unconscious patient. If by any chance the patient is still alive, this also protects their head from being bashed along the floor and sides of seats, and if a second person is involved it also allows for the patient's feet to be restrained from doing same.

Dad was a Boy Scout leader. Children can learn this stuff.

[Ms. Toad]

122. That's pulling using a blanket - and I agree, that is a better option for movement,

if blankets are quickly and easily available, and of sufficient size and strength to be useful. (Most of those qualifiers aren't met on today's airline blankets, though).

That wasn't the question, though. It was ensuring modesty by holding a blanket to cover the mid-section of the person.

[jberryhill]

61. Do EMT's declare people dead in that jurisdiction?

I'm glad all the mind readers here know exactly what the EMT was thinking or why the EMT took this course of action. Where would we be without the omniscience with which DU is blessed.

[Laffy Kat]

131. It usually has to be a paramedic to make the call. nt

[Warpy]

42. Exactly, was he supposed to waste time dressing her?

Were they supposed to remove seats to get a gurney down the aisle? Sorry these jackoff passengers got their eyes offended, but this really was about all he could possibly do to get her out of there and into a place where she could be worked on.

The only thing out of line I see here is dragging her by the hands. Under the armpits is a better hold.

[pansypoo53219]

70. dressing her would have been very very hard. and takes time. a blanket would have been nice.

[Warpy]

77. Two would have been better, one underneath her to drag her on

and the other covering her. He didn't want to take the time to go looking for them any more than he wanted to take the time to dress her. In cardiac arrest (which is what is suspected in sudden collapse) seconds count. The sooner you can get the person to a defibrillator, the better chance the patient has of survival.

[Hekate]

109. Flight attendants have immediate access to blankets. Immediate.

And dragging her out by her hands? If she were still alive, that alone could have finished her off.

[Warpy]

112. Hardly, although it wouldn't have done her shoulders any good

I have to think that's how he got her out of the bathroom. Once in the aisle, he could get a purchase under her arms. It's hard enough to get a coding patient out of a generous hospital bathroom. I can't imagine the struggle within the tiny airline toilet.

As for instant access, don't forget this was a panic situation. They didn't think to provide them and he didn't know where to look.

The passengers who are all bent out of shape over this are being hypercritical and ignorant.

[Hekate]

114. What panic? Is there no longer ANY first-aid or emergency training for flight attendants?

What fresh hell is this?

[Warpy]

125. Unless you're used to such situations

and I'm sure the afternoon spent finding a passenger unrespionsive in a seat didn't prepare them for what happened, it's panic.

C'mon, you know that.

[Hekate]

129. That's what first-aid training is for. If the airlines fail to train their employees...

...shame on them. If their employees panic, shame on them as well. That's a dereliction of duty to the public safety with which they are all charged.

So are they allowed to panic if an engine conks out? No? If severe weather is encountered? No?

This is a sick passenger, not a terrorist with a gun to their heads.

[RobinA]

135. Maybe It Was

one of the airlines that charges extra for blankets. Basic economy, doncha know. Not entitled to a blanket and when you get dragged out for whatever reason you only get to keep the clothes that remain on your body throughout the dragging.

[stonecutter357]

45. the EMT's should have been doing CPR not dragging a body down the aisle ...

[Ms. Toad]

81. I don't have EMT training, but I have (repeatedly) had mandatory responder training.

If you are not in a location were CPR can be effectively performed, you move the person to where it can be performed.

[stonecutter357]

85. absolutely no EMT is trained to drag a dying person by the ARM ....

[Ms. Toad]

87. I wasn't commenting on how they moved her.

I was commenting on moving v. doing CPR in place when the place is unsuitable for effective CPR.

[Alameda]

48. Hey....it's not all about you

as another said, there are the others on the flight, her family...and she could have had an infectious issue.

[flotsam]

4. First it says she's dying and then say she was lifeless...

As a past EMT, naked was not my concern but a chance to revive a patient was. If there was a 1 in a thousand chance of a save I drag her naked to a clear area where cpr or other procedures could be performed and fuck 30 seconds spent to avoid "offending" people. Art Endress can take his condemnation and shove it up his tight ass. What he got to see was actual emergency medicine performed correctly.

[heaven05]

9. a quick blanket

over this human being would have taken 1/10 of a second.....but you are right.....I guess.

[snooper2]

39. do you know where blankets are located on a plane

[3auld6phart]

69. Respect and decency

Well of course the flight attendants would know I would think. Decorum.

[Harry Manch]

88. Haven't seen one in an airline in YEARS

Overhead bins are always occupied with baggages.

[jberryhill]

63. How does a blanket stay in place...

...when you are trying to move an unconscious person to a clear area to try to save their life?

[snooper2]

73. silly you, don't you know they have a stockpile of these on each plane?

[Ms. Toad]

83. . . . down airplane aisles so narrow that would have Olive Oyle

banging her hips against he seats.

That blanket would stay on for fewer seconds than it took to locate it in the first place.

[kristopher]

10. +1

[gilbert sullivan]

11. Thank you for some sanity.

...

[yurbud]

14. that was my first thought. And maybe a gurney or stretcher couldn't fit in the narrow airline aisle

[whopis01]

23. Absolutely

I am amazed at all the people here talking about how little time it would have taken to cover her up.

EMTs should not and do not give a fuck about your dignity. They care about saving your life.


(Just to clarify for the logically impaired out there - I am of course referring to a situation where time to treatment is critical. I am sure EMTs care about someone's dignity when they feel comfortable that there is time to spend caring about such things)

[heaven05]

6. all the sudden

with the election of a mean, despicable person as king dung, people are just insanely mean.....wtf is the excuse for something like this....insulting and unnecessary to have done something like this I hope her relatives sue American and the EMS....ass wipes!!!!!!!!!!

[gilbert sullivan]

13. You would prefer they scrounge around for something to cover her cootch

and reduce any chance of reviving her just so that puritan old fart wouldn't be outraged?

[WinkyDink]

20. Just your anatomical description shows your thoughts are not really for the woman.

[gilbert sullivan]

24. bullshit

I would want them to do anything to increase the chance of saving her. To hell with her 'dignity'. Which do you think SHE would want? Covered up and dead, or nekkid and alive?

[WinkyDink]

28. False dichotomy.

[gilbert sullivan]

34. Perhaps you should look up "dichotomy"

[narnian60]

76. Thank you.

[heaven05]

22. Like I said

you're right, to hell with vanity. Just a second or so to throw something over her means nothing.....you know damn well flight attendants could have done that...but you're right to hell with vanity and DECENCY. But that's really an anachronistic way of looking at things in this trump era, I guess.........

[gilbert sullivan]

35. The flight attendants weren't the ones trying to see if there was a chance to save her

they were probably busy doing things they were trained and responsible for.

[stonecutter357]

44. how do you know the flight attendants weren't trying to save her ?

And the EMT's should have been doing CPR not dragging a body down the aisle ...

[gilbert sullivan]

47. I remember a time when puritanical outrage over nudity issues was the big concern of

Republicans along with "who gives a shit" about human life and Democrats thought saving lives was important
and nekkid people were not..

I completely missed the date when that got reversed.

[stonecutter357]

49. porlly a lot of shit you completely missed ....

[gilbert sullivan]

55. porlly so

[Alameda]

59. I guess skin abrasion

from being dragged down an aisle is good for her health...particularly one that over a hundred people have tracked on with their street shoes?

[Ms. Toad]

101. About as good for her health as multiple broken ribs -

the inevitable consequence of having CPR performed on you.

When death is imminent, rescuers don't sweat the small stuff (like abrasions, bruises, or even broken ribs). Most people who are rescued from the brink of death are OK with that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

50. Because the article says the attendants had already handed over to the EMTs as they are trained to

And the professional EMTs decided they had a better chance of saving her in the jetway.

[Ms. Toad]

86. Have you performed CPR?

Are you aware of how much space it takes? And how little space there is on a plane.

Standard CPR training is to move the person to where CPR can effectively be performed, if the space where the person is currently located would make CPR inefective.

[muriel_volestrangler]

46. In the Trump era, the first thought is to sue someone

even if they were doing their best to save a life - you know, the decent thing to do.

How many times do you think they'd have to stop to throw the blanket back on her as they pulled her down the aisle? No, it would not have been "just a second or so".

[heaven05]

147. yeah, yeah

anything ALL of you say...... decency and human dignity out the window....A quickly folded blanket, shirt anything just covering her private parts would have been the decent thing....but all of you are so right.....I stand sooooooo corrected....through with all this trump-king dung era thinking......

[Ms. Toad]

91. Think through the logistics.

You have 2 or more EMTs in the aisle, likely at least one ahead and one behind, trying to move her as quickly as they can out of the plane.

Your suggestion would require a flight attendant to slow down that progress (by standing ahead of the lead EMT trying to toss the blanket over his/her head on to the woman - or by displacing the trailing EMT. This is , after they locate a blanket (not necessarily immediate, depending on the flight, how many are in use, and where the piles were/are in relation to the position of the flight attendants & the moving party.

Because of how narrow the aisles are, the blanket would need to be anchored to avoid sliding right off (likely getting tangled in the trailing EMT's feet). Anchoring it would take time (and more maneuvering around the woman and the EMTs in very tight quarters), and would not likely be effective anyway - given her size (estimated based on her photo) and the impossibly narrow aisles.

[heaven05]

146. Like I said

logistics aside. This 'incident' shows a deplorables lack of decency....all you logical and just plain mean people who DO NOT CARE about the dignity of this person? You are entitled. You are correct, in your minds.....period...

[procon]

90. Legitimate EMTs would have come onboard equipped to do their job.

At a minimum that would have included a med kit with defibrillator strapped to a backboard with a blanket and c-collar. A med kit usually contains a silver heat sheet as well that can be used to cover a body. Backboards are only 18" wide and its a lot easier to transport a limp body that way than try to move one by hand.

The article states that the first "responders from Allina Health". Is this a private EMT business rather than a government service? If so, it would appear their standards and policies do not meet any sort of basic training or professionalism.

[vkkv]

8. It won't be long now... 'Soylent Green, avaliable now in these fine stores'..

[WinkyDink]

16. The extreme indignity inflicted is beyond my ability to comprehend. But I have experienced lesser

degrees of it with "health care" personnel towards loved ones, so there's that.

Also: Misogyny.

[Progressive dog]

19. Seconds matter in emergencies.

Even if only one person could be saved by not wasting time with blankets, it would be worth it. You can't be embarrassed if you are dead.
Of course Endress wasn't as concerned for the woman's life as he was for himself.

[WinkyDink]

21. Really? No blanket AT EVERY SEAT?

[Progressive dog]

33. If my job were to try to save a life,

I sure wouldn't worry about some nut being offended.

[SharonClark]

58. Some nut?

[jberryhill]

64. Not in economy there isn't

Have you flown recently?

[WinkyDink]

27. It's not like the EMT was in the lav next door. There was TIME ENOUGH for personnel to grab a

seat blanket.

ARE AIRPLANES NOT EQUIPPED FOR HEALTH EMERGENCIES?

For those who think an old woman's "cootch" is not worth covering, shame on YOU.

[Orrex]

36. Old woman?

She was apparently in her 40s.

Guess I'm older than I realized!

[GulfCoast66]

29. Medical personal give a shit about nudity taboos

They care about saving lives. Seconds matter when cardiac issues occur.

This is not some goon throwing a person off the plane for sitting in the wrong seat but someone trying to save the ladies life.

And if he had dicked around putting clothes on her or finding a way to 'preserve her dignity' her family would rightfully looking for a lawyer to sue the EMP for malpractice.

[barbtries]

32. aargh.

this mean place. it's infected everything.

[gilbert sullivan]

38. With stupidity

and misplaced priorities.

Let's not offend some old geezer who thinks nudity is obscene, let's take as long as it takes to cover up the victim

[mac56]

57. I would love this to be more embarrassing for you

but I don't think anyone could surpass your own efforts.

[SharonClark]

56. No it hasn't. Don't let the newbie troll get you down.

[barbtries]

71. i was thinking about them dragging the woman down the aisle.

i fly frequently for work and am not getting any younger.

i put the newbie a-hole on ignore but after reading through the thread, maybe they were just trying to save her life.

[Orrex]

37. I kind of can believe that it wasn't United...

[Blue_Tires]

41. I'll wait to hear more sides of this story first...

[JTFrog]

43. It's about respect.

We don't show naked corpses in caskets and we don't send bodies to the morgue upside down in body bags for a reason. Even though the deceased can't be "embarrassed" by it when they are dead as some very insensitive folks have proclaimed.

[jberryhill]

60. Can EMT's declare someone dead in that jurisdiction?

Absent an account from the EMT, and not knowing the medical qualifications of the passengers complaining, I think I'd rather know what the EMT was thinking.

[leftyladyfrommo]

53. If that was me

I would want them to take 2 seconds to cover me.

[athena]

102. Same here.

What they did was extremely disrespectful. I'm certain that if it had been a man, they would have covered his private parts. But when you're a woman in this country, it's understood that you don't even own your own body.

[leftyladyfrommo]

106. I can't imagine dragging her down the isle

Was too good for her, either.

Seems like throwing her over a shoulder would have made more sense.

Poor thing. How awful.

[jmowreader]

62. How many times would they have had to "throw a blanket over her"?

I think if they had "thrown a blanket over her," it would have fallen off after two feet of dragging.

[jberryhill]

65. Yeah, I'm mystified by these adhesive blankets

As if a blanket is going to stay on.

[WinkyDink]

140. OMG. This is the most egregious attempt at a defense yet. Blankets are used EVERY DAMN

day in such situations.

Do your blankets on your bed slide off onto the floor at night? All the time?

GMAB.

[jberryhill]

145. When was the last time you were on a plane?

My bed is not in an airplane aisle, nor is it 18 inches wide.

[yuiyoshida]

67. Shit be cray cray every day in Trump's America

[Rebl2]

75. Why

didn't they get everyone off the plane then take deceased woman off? Seems that would have been proper thing to do.

[petronius]

78. It sounds like they still hoped to have a chance at reviving her

According to the last bit of the article: "The remaining passengers were kept on board while resuscitation efforts resumed, he said. After about an hour, a tarp was put up in the jetway to shield the woman as the passengers were allowed to leave."

The airport spokesman also says that she was taken off the plane on a portable stretcher, rather than being dragged, so it seems like she could have been covered if a cover was available. But I wouldn't say they should wait very long for a cover, if one wasn't in arm's reach (any time spent fetching a blanket is time not spent on resuscitation efforts)...

Welcome to DU, by the way!

[jberryhill]

80. EMT's don't generally declare people dead

I think before someone is considered deceased, someone with legal authority to declare death has to say so, otherwise EMT's will continue to attempt to save the person.

It depends on the jurisdiction.

[stonecutter357]

94. EMT's don't generally drag a person by the arms down the aisle...

[jberryhill]

95. I was on a flight where a guy passed out drunk

Plane made an emergency landing at another airport and that's pretty much how they got him off.

[procon]

84. Skimming down, why are so many men trying to excuse how that woman's body

was manhandled? Having worked in critical care for over 30 years, I can tell you that what was described is not normal, and any reasonable person would recognise that to be unacceptable. This untoward defense of brutish disregard of the dead seems to be a question that goes well beyond mere civilized behavior, common decency or normal procedures.

So, I'm missing the underlying rationale here. What explains this glaring gender gap that prompts any excuse whatsoever? Is is sexism, a homage to some Ayn Randian morality, props to the corporate image of American Airlines?

[Ms. Toad]

92. The underlying rationale here is that she was not dead -

resuscitation efforts continued after she was removed from the plane, from any report that I've seem. As someone working in critical care, you should know that seconds matter. Personally, as someone who has spent a lot of time in ERs as the designated advocate for rape survivors and who, in that capacity, has been exposed to more emergency triage and and care of life-threating conditions than most people who don't actually work in the ER - I can tell you that in life-threatening emergencies, concern about covering up from prying eyes is a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th thought - if at all. Which is as it should be.

This has nothing to do with a gender gap (I happen to be female) - it has to do with the difference between handling a dead body (for whom there is no more urgency - and of course - had that been the case - she should have been covered up, the plane evacuated before taking her out, a stretcher brought in so she could be carried above the level of the seats rather than being dragged through them, etc.) and responding to an emergency crisis in which she could still be saved - when time is one of the primary things that does matter.

[procon]

98. The primary stabilization occurs on site unless it is too unstable,

and the report says a nurse and a doctor aboard did try to defibrillate the woman and they stopped before the EMTs arrived. The EMTs boarded empty handed. They did no patient care. They removed a body. Then someone decided to supposedly restart resuscitation on the jetway. The article said this went on for an hour. That's would never happen, and stranger still at no point did anyone try to transport the victim to a hospital ER or trauma center for appropriate care. Incompetence or cover up, it's beyond bizarre, I tell you.

[Ms. Toad]

100. The jetway would be the closest stable place to perform CPR

And you don't perform CPR on what you believe to be a dead body - so, whether it was a perfectly run emergency or not, the EMTs who removed her apparently believed they were moving a person they still hoped to save to a stable place where CPR could be performed. Which is my point. You don't go looking for blankets or worry about modesty if it hinders or delays your attempt to render aid that may mean the difference between life and death.

[procon]

116. Not buying it; the nurse and doctor who were on that flight

managed well enough and even tried to defibrillate her. It didn't work. They stopped. The woman had already been down sometime in the bathroom before she was noticed. Presumably the flight crew spoke with someone on the ground and relayed that information. That might explain why the EMTs boarded without their equipment and simply dragged her off.

[WinkyDink]

139. During the landing, could some attendant not have found a seat blanket?

[athena]

104. I wish I could recommend your post.

The answer, to me, is obvious: a woman's body is not her own in this country. Women's bodies are considered to be owned by men: boyfriends, husbands, fetuses, media, the porn industry, and the government. If it had been a man, they would have covered him up.

[procon]

117. Understood. I feel the same way.

If it was a man's penis (which sometimes might be erect shortly after death) that was exposed to prying eyes, the whole situation would been handled differently.

[Bayard]

89. Where was the daggone stretcher?

If she wasn't dead already, being dragged around by her arms probably finished her off.

[jberryhill]

96. In an airplane aisle?

[procon]

99. Yes, a backboard in only 18" wide and meant to be use in tight places. nt

[jberryhill]

148. Yeah, well, the eyewitness report of one "troubled passenger" is not the totality of facts, either..

http://www.startribune.com/passenger-emt-dragged-dying-woman-s-body-down-aisle-of-crowded-plane-at-msp/428210893/

"She was not half-naked," said passenger Dave Sampsell in an e-mail to the Star Tribune. "Her pants were unfastened, but I saw nothing that any of the airline or EMT staff did inappropriately."

...

The woman, taken off the plane on the tarp-like stretcher that partly covered her, was brought to the jet bridge where emergency workers spent about an hour trying to revive her.

[Nac Mac Feegle]

93. There is a lot of missing information here

Think about this:

Aircraft are NOT AT ALL like you see on TV. All space that is not used for paying customers is begrudged most terribly. These things are basically a ballistic sardine can. The seats are a configured to get the highest number of people possible into the smallest space. Then they squeeze a few more in, just for fun. They start from the assumption that the average person is the size of a small 9 year old and design the seats and spacing from there. The aisles are barely wide enough to get the drink cart through only. If the bathroom is at the rear of the plane, the whole length has to be traveled to get to the door.

Have you ever heard the term "Dead Weight"? Unconscious people are not easy to move. They are just "there", somewhat reminiscent of a sack of potatoes, only less flexible or co-operative, and with fewer handles to hold on to.

Add to all this, the pressure of trying to (hopefully) revive someone that may possibly be able to survive the episode. Time is of the essence. You want to get the victim out to where they can be "worked on" as quickly as possible, hopefully without causing any more problems. TIME MATTERS. Given the choice between dignity and dying, dignity is sacrificed with no compunction whatsoever.

If you want to search for a villain in this story, look at the airlines cramming ever more people into ever smaller spaces in the pursuit of maximum profit. Add the stresses of the process of getting to the airport, enduring the Security Theater, the boarding process, and the stress of the actual flight itself. It's inevitable that there is going to be someone in poor enough health that they will not survive this, tragically.

But it's the Cost Of Safety(tm): Knowing That There Isn't A Terrorist On Board. So what if someone doesn't live through it? The Airline made its' money, and profits are up. Got to get rid of those Job Killing Regulations. (that's sarcasm, in case you didn't understand)

I know it sounds a bit callous, but the EMS people acted within the constraints they were given: space, access, and time. It may not be pretty, but if there's a possibility of survival, you have to take the chance.

[mn9driver]

97. A couple of thoughts on this.

1. The older, smaller 737 models have very little room in the back. Certainly not enough to do CPR. The newer models have more room.

2. She was discovered in the lav on the descent into Minneapolis. The pilots were sure to declare a medical emergency and get priority. Probably only a few minutes passed.

3. The medical volunteers on the flight put an AED on her, and it shocked her. AED's generally do NOT shock people with no heart activity.

I know the layout in MSP very well and the taxi to the gate was probably less than 2 minutes since they were in a hurry. The EMT's were obviously trying to save her life. All the passengers were held in their seats. The people involved with this believed that seconds counted.

Anyone who wants to believe that this was negligence or disrespect needs to take a breath. This was a last ditch lifesaving effort, nothing more.

[dawn frenzy adams]

103. What the hell?

Who was this soulless psychopath that dragged this woman down the aisle like this? This could have caused more physical harm. Why didn't he solicit help from other passengers? I want to see a picture of the hobgoblin that did this.

[Ms. Toad]

110. FYI: CPR also causes "more physical harm"

In an emergency, every minute counts - and additional harm that could be caused by how she was moved (or by performing CPR) pales in the face of the consequences of any delay in moving her to a place where care can be provided.

[ripcord]

107. After reading this thread I know one thing for sure

I don't want to be a first responder, seems they are in a no win situation.

[Hekate]

113. This is an appalling thread. The inhumane behavior of flight attendants (first on the scene)...

...in not grabbing a covering from their stores is matched only by the inhumanity of the EMTs (second on the scene by how long? they sure were not waiting right there, but had to be summoned from a distance and had time to prepare a plan) AND the attitude of many of the posters here.

Do airplanes now have NO emergency equipment on board? Are there NO first-aid protocols in their training any more?

As to space to lay someone down (someone posited a wet, dirty floor in a tiny restroom, or the aisles) -- there is space on the floor of the galley at the back for one person in an emergency.

Someone -- in fact, a whole lot of someones -- was not using his or her head, much less their heart.

[Sunlei]

123. any emt group even a 'private' would have a flexible stretcher w/easy handles for two. PLUS, if

the person was- oh say covered with ebola poo- the entire plane wouldn't become infected from dragging a body around.

The stretcher is fabric waterproof, it wraps around most bodies like a tube, thus they would slide better along the ground if the person was to large for two to outright lift.

[jberryhill]

150. As indeed this one did, and used:

http://www.startribune.com/passenger-emt-dragged-dying-woman-s-body-down-aisle-of-crowded-plane-at-msp/428210893/

"She was not half-naked," said passenger Dave Sampsell in an e-mail to the Star Tribune. "Her pants were unfastened, but I saw nothing that any of the airline or EMT staff did inappropriately."

...

The woman, taken off the plane on the tarp-like stretcher that partly covered her, was brought to the jet bridge where emergency workers spent about an hour trying to revive her.

[dalton99a]

126. Woman identified as Theresa Hines, 48, of Carrollton, Texas

From link

[athena]

132. So she was Black.

That explains why they felt entitled to treat her with such disrespect.

I have no words. I am so angry and sad right now. What a sick country this has become.

[WinkyDink]

137. Yes, she was an African-American woman. The plane had landed. No time to cover her ON the plane?

JUST GMAFB.

I am appalled by this thread, the arguments that it was "life or death," though accident victims get covered every damn day at the scene.

Snark, in defense of everyone from crew to EMTs, as they thought nothing of this inexcusable infliction of indignity.

And I am reminded of Kamala Harris.

[Hekate]

136. Ms Hines had a lovely smile. Condolences to her family, and RIP

She deserved better. We all do.

[brooklynite]

133. How DARE the airline industry not build plane wide enough to run a gurney down the aisle!

Now, if you've had experience moving dead bodies on a plane, I'll accept your better judgement.

[WinkyDink]

138. Dragging her AND she was exposed. Accident victims get covered every day. Now, if you've

ever been dragged in front of people similarly, I'll listen to your judgment.

[the_sly_pig]

134. good gravy....

You get your victim as quickly as possible to an area where equipment and personnel can try to save a life. I applaud the EMT for getting that poor woman out of the plane.

The victim probably had a major cardiac event and needed space for first responders to work.

It's ridiculous that this is even news.

[WinkyDink]

141. You think being dragged down an aisle would be good for this woman?

Plus, you think there was no time at all, zero, not 5 seconds, to grab some type of covering?

I was in a car accident once. The EMTs moved deliberately, smartly, not like frantic chickens in a rush.

[the_sly_pig]

142. I assume you were conscious and breathing....

apples and oranges....

But if you needed extrication and the car was on fire and I'm sure your first concern would be whether or not you're clothed. More power to ya neighbor...

[xor]

143. This seems like it would depend on her status as they took her off

If they felt like they could still save her, then getting the patient somewhere that is more accommodating should be the priority. If possible, without expending extra time or attention away from the patient, then it makes sense to try to cover them up. But there is nothing here to suggest that they didn't attempt to, but failed, or that there was a blanket could have been placed on her without causing life saving efforts to be diverted. I know in this situation I would personally want them to get me wherever they need me. It's much like if i had a bad wound on my thigh, I would hope the medical folks wouldn't have any issues cutting my pants, shirt, or whatever off to treat me. Someone seeing me in my underwear or even naked would be the least of my concerns. I'm pretty sure that isn't an uncommon feeling.

Now, from the EMT's standpoint, I see it as he/she was primarily concerned with saving the life. The thought of the person being in their underwear may not have even crossed his/her mind... or maybe it did, but the blanket or covering on her fell off during the move. I can easily see that happening when pulling someone across a narrow aisle. The blanket would likely have to be secured and attached to the person in such a way that it would't fall off due to friction on the floor or hitting the seats. Then there is the concern that while it is firmly attached to the patient and gets hung up on a seat. The extraction is now delayed even longer. Had the EMT spent a time snugly securing a covering and then it got stuck so he/she had to go back, then we'd be talking about how the EMT wasted time and because of that she died. And if he was to completely cover her in a really tight wrapping, then that would take too much time. I know in my case I would rather them take me out ASAP than risk adding more variables that could be problematic.

Now, if she was already dead and they were approaching as a just a remove the body operation. Then I 100% agree that she should have been wrapped up. In fact, they should have removed the passengers or at least taken the extra time to get her onto a small stretcher so that two people could have carried her down the aisle. That doesn't seem to be the case, though. They seem to have been working under the impression that they were going to attempt to revive her.

[flotsam]

151. Earlier on the thread it was asked if the EMT's could pronounce her dead...

and the answer varies by state. But this I do know-in states where you cannot pronounce the victim dead once you begin treatment protocol states that treatment will not cease until the patient is handed off (say, to a hospital) or until they are pronounced dead by a person with authority. That is why they continued cpr in the jetway for an hour-not because (as suggested here) they were "covering something up"...