Strange behavior in Colorado Court

[grantcart]

Source: TMZ

"Dark Knight" shooter (name redacted) appeared in court moments ago ... sporting red-orange hair ... a red jumpsuit ... and a very bizarre demeanor.

() was informed he will be charged with FIRST DEGREE MURDER for killing 12 people in a Colorado movie theater on Friday. The formal charges are expected to be filed soon.

() appeared sedated in court -- constantly opening his eyes widely ... and then appearing to doze off while the judge was speaking.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/23/colorado-shooting-james-holmes-arraignment/

---

There are threads about his appearance and this gives the facts even though it is TMZ.

[onehandle]

1. Legal Gun Owner.

[valerief]

3. Carrot Top must be rolling over in his prop box. nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

4. Unlawful user of guns, actually.

But keep on keeping on.

[iamthebandfanman]

7. guns werent designed for killing

after all.

[aquart]

27. Parsing.

And legal gun owners who object to being put in the same category as this legal gun owner have only themselves to blame.

Or would you prefer two categories: legal gun owners who have committed murder and legal gun owners who haven't yet?

Laws FORCED on you?

[pnwmom]

31. Until the point when he used them unlawfully, he was a legal gun owner.

That is the problem. Any legal gun owner can turn into a George Zimmerman or a James Holmes.

[boppers]

56. Nobody is questioning whether or not he is *still* a legal gun owner.

He hasn't been convicted of any crimes, so why should we restrict his gun ownership?

[pnwmom]

58. Ooops. I should have said, "allegedly used them unlawfully." n/t

[valerief]

5. Yep, this is how I picture them all. nt

[zellie]

17. Carrot Top's evil twin brother.....

separated at birth.

[cliffordu]

21. Love this!

Lumping this POS in with all gun owners!!!!

How delightfully insightful!!

[mahatmakanejeeves]

2. "Name redacted"

It's a little late for TMZ to be doing that, isn't it?

[grantcart]

46. that was me

[Jessy169]

6. Over on Yahoo

The right-wingers over on Yahoo are posting things like "Burn him", "Send him to hell", "Extra Crispy Please", etc... Obnoxious and repulsive, as usual, which pretty much sums up the "Republican Base".

I hope that we'll find out or at least get a hint of what corrupting evil entered into Holmes' life and pushed him toward the terrible deed he committed.

I believe that humans are inherently good, but that corrupting influences in a young life can so damage the psyche of an individual that they may, under extreme circumstances, be capable of committing these kinds of atrocities.

I hope we have a chance to learn more about Holmes, what makes him tick, where he started to "go bad". My guess is, based on experience, that powerful corrupting influences began early in his childhood and kept the pressure on for an extended period of time.

There are REASONS why Holmes turned out to be such a monster, and those reasons should be brought to light.

[iamthebandfanman]

8. i tend to believe

based off of my own personal beliefs...
that life in prison is worse than death.

death is an easy exit , and an easy out... not to mention the fact alot of murderers have no desire to live any longer..

personally, sitting in a cell for the entirety of the rest of my life with rapists and other murderers is a fate far worse than the sweet release of death. lol

[Iwillnevergiveup]

11. Completely agree with you

plus the fact convicted inmates can appeal their sentences for decades which costs millions. Death sentences are not deterrants!

[leftyohiolib]

12. life w/o parole is cruel punishmnt.

[iamthebandfanman]

13. atleast its a punishment..

death is not.
i highly doubt this guy is afraid of death..
but i tend to think maybe we are all jumping the gun on this..
we need to wait and see what the court proceedings undercover

[Comrade_McKenzie]

22. A very appropriate punishment for murder/rape... nt

[leftyohiolib]

24. execution is more appropriate

[obamanut2012]

30. How is murdering someone more appropriate?

[lib2DaBone]

16. True.. this guy will end up dead

When the CIA is finished using him.... they will find hem dead in his cell. Nice and clean.. no evidence.

[nichomachus]

9. What we need to focus on

is our society -- what makes it tick and where it started to go bad.

We live in a society where the weak or less powerful are picked on and ridiculed -- from Limbaugh, to pro wrestling, to professional football, to "action" movies. To those who feel that they are the victims of this violence-laden, might-makes-right society guns are the great equalizer.

[Chemisse]

10. I am betting he is severely mentally ill.

But that may be because I think people are inherently good, and killing unrelated to passion, profit, self-defense or war is simply repugnant to a healthy person.

I doubt that he is schizophrenic because what he did requires well-organized thinking. Perhaps he is psychotic.

It doesn't matter to his defense, since an insanity plea would simply not be tolerated. But it helps to consider when tryin to understand his motives.

[Myrina]

23. Or maybe he was just REALLY pissed off ...

[Chemisse]

39. That's what usually spurs these things

But they also happen on impulse - the disgruntled worker, the spurned lover, the bullied student - with a pretty short planning time.

This guy spent months planning this, and had no grudge against these particular people. Whatever his anger or fear was based on pretty much has to be pathological. Unless he was a sociopath looking for a big thrill, but I would lay bets on paranoid psychotic.

[AndyTiedye]

38. Life in an Institution, Being Studied to Try to Figure Out What The Feep is Wrong With These People

This man is insane. The whole concept of punishment becomes meaningless here,
and what society offers as punishment, death, may actually be an incentive to someone like that.
Mass-murderers often use their last bullet on themselves.
We caught this one alive, and we need to learn what we can from him.

[Scairp]

48. Always interesting

It's great how they love the 2nd Amendment more than, literally, their own lives but the rest of the Constitution, things like "due process" and other rights that protect each individual, seem to escape them totally.

[Clear Blue Sky]

15. what compounds has he taken?

My guess is that he did a bit of self-experimentation with some of the neuroscience compounds he was studying.

[Windy]

19. He is obviously mentally ill. I don't understand his parents

His mother had no doubt that it was her son who committed this heinous act. If she knew that her son was troubled, how could she leave him in Aurora? Why didn't the parents try and get him help? I don't understand. If it was my son, I wouldn't be in San Diego while he was many many miles away in Colorado. The entire situation is tragic.

[Jessy169]

25. His mother knew

Good point, Wendy. His mother KNEW that something seriously abnormal was wrong with her son. How long has she been aware of her son's serious mental problems? Does she know what factors contributed to his state of mind? What if anything did she do to help her son?

I don't remember the exact statistics or studies that show a DIRECT relationship between the trauma suffered by individuals when they are young and impressionable and their subsequent criminal behavior, but they are easy to find by doing searches on the internet. The studies strongly support the theory that for every criminal, rapist, drug-addict or alcoholic (etc...) out there, the mental issues that brought on the crises can be traced back to early childhood trauma. We find that pedophiles were frequently and almost always sexually abused themselves as children. We find alcoholics and drug-addicts were treated like pieces of meat as kids, whipped and punished and subjected to all kinds of demeaning and often violent behavior by the adults with whom they came into contact. In fact, it is most often the adults who a child must rely on and develop trust with the most that are the main culprits.

We need to study Holmes, and give him a chance to tell his story. I am 100% opposed to those who are calling for swift execution. There is much that we can learn from Holmes, if we are interested in figuring out what drives an individual to do such terrible things.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

53. He may have a mental problem

therefore if so he should be treated.

[obamanut2012]

32. It is almost impossible to make an adult get medical

It is almost impossible for a court to order this without an actual reason, which is actually not a bad thing, as involuntary commitment was horribly abused in the past.

His parents aren't at fault. They had no knowledge of his plot.

[Windy]

34. They had knowledge that he had problems

You dont abandon your kid. I don't care if they are 3 or 50.

[amandabeech]

36. The parents can only encourage their children once those children reach 18.

My guess would be that this young man started having obvious problems after 18, and that his parents have been trying.

Legally, unless the young man will go to the doctor or check himself into a hospital, nothing can be done until he's done something that clearly shows that he's dangerous to himself and others or is so gravely disabled that he's nearly dead on the street.

It is a very difficult situation for the parents, and I won't condemn them until more comes out about what they tried or were trying.

BTW, I worked in mental hospital legal services while I was in law school many years ago. It was quite an eye-opener.

[obamanut2012]

37. They had no legal or medical knowledge

It doesn't work that way. You can't say an adult "has problems."

And, you have no idea what they did or did not do for their son. I refuse to judge them. There is no way to make an adult listen to you, you cannot force them to do something. They didn't abandon him. Good God.

Do you not see they are also victims here? They have lost their son, they will have a lifetime of what ifs, knowing people are dead and people are maimed and families are ruined because of their son.

[Chemisse]

42. It's not easy having an adult child with serious problems.

And it is absolutely wrong that behind every mentally ill adult is a childhood trauma. They stopped teaching that in psych classes in the 1980s. (In 1982 I was taught that autism was caused by cold and uncaring mothers during infancy - a particularly cruel concept considering the heartbreak already facing families of autistic children). Diseases such as schizophrenia have a biological cause, and blaming the families of the stricken is unfair and just adds to their burdens.

There are plenty of excellent parents who have had kids who suddenly become very sick as teenagers or young adults. And once they are 18, the parents have no control over their treatment or their lives. It is a very helpless feeling for a parent, particularly when the child refuses to be treated. Unless that child exhibits behavior that poses a clear danger to himself or others, there is simply nothing the parents can do.

I have nothing but sympathy for the parents of this young man.

[yardwork]

43. He is an adult and his parents have no legal control over him.

We don't know that he was abandoned. We don't know many facts at all. Severe mental illness is difficult to diagnose and treat, especially when people are adults. Involuntary commitment is no longer an option in the vast majority of cases. There are thousands and thousands of families with adult children who are severely mentally ill, and those families are in anguish over their children, but there are very few options. In the vast majority of cases, those who are mentally ill don't harm anybody except themselves.

[Zoeisright]

55. Have you ever had a mentally ill family member?

Unless you have them committed, which is next to impossible unless they have harmed themselves or others, or have stated they will, you cannot force someone to get help or get treatment. That's the law of the land. I hardly think his parents "abandoned" him.

[Marrah_G]

57. Once your child turns 18 you cannot compel them to do anything.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

51. Try it sometime...

My families best efforts to deal with a severely disturbed relative ended in a stack of restraining orders against us.

If you are totally fucking unhinged and attempting to refuse medical care the pro bono legal resources that will be brought to bare on your behalf are astonishing.

[Panasonic]

18. Holme's name is redacted?

TMZ's an idiot.

[nc4bo]

20. CNN runner claims his brother said Holmes was "a coward and a genius".

And doesn't believe for a second that he is insane.

More to come I'm sure......

[gregoire]

26. Interesting, so you don't think he did this?

I read three very good articles over the weekend that point to the FBI as responsible.

[Lint Head]

29. That garbage is from tea bagger conspiracy sites.

[obamanut2012]

33. The poster didn't say that, and please don't quote RW sites

[nc4bo]

40. Thanks obamanut. I just quoted what I saw from CNN(tv). nt

[yardwork]

45. Why would the FBI do this?

[Lint Head]

28. No sympathy for this killer but has probably not slept and I'm sure the court wanted him

awake for this hearing. He looked like someone drugged or suffering from lack of sleep.
I have never had the experience of being arrested but I wouldn't think the jail would issue him drugs.
Of course I'm not sure. It seems prisoners would get needed medication but I don't think Holmes has been diagnosed
with a medical condition.

[obamanut2012]

35. They are supposed to give them already prescribed meds

But, there hasn't been time to have given him a psych eval yet, and I doubt a court order to do it.

[heaven05]

41. insanity plea upcoming

and being a mayflower child he'll get a countryclub

[Chemisse]

44. He may be insane, but he won't plead it - not successfully anyway

Our society has no sympathy for the criminally insane, particularly when involved in a high-profile case.

[grantcart]

47. he's doesn't appear to be legally insane, which would require an affirmative defense that

he didn't know what he was doing was wrong.

A couple of months ago he was in a doctoral program.

Doubtful he is insane.

[wordpix]

50. not to mention, purchase of the weapons + extensive booby traps show he planned to kill

My mother with Alzheimer's would be judged insane if she hurt someone. In the middle stage of AD, she thought people were out to kill her, steal from her, and generally was paranoid and delusional. She once got a kitchen knife to protect herself and after that, we hid the knives. Now she's in the advanced stage and is milder in behavior, but yesterday started screaming when I took out two cucumbers from a bag. I am guessing she thought they were weapons.

Now, THAT is insanity. What Holmes did was premeditated murder. No sympathy.

[DeschutesRiver]

59. I haven't yet read that he does or does not know that it was wrong

Over the years, have read about many young people whose mental illness didn't reach a crisis point until they were in grad school under immense pressure to perform (med or law school examples come to mind). These kids were accepted into a program and that happened to be where the illness came to the forefront and they had to be institutionalized.

So it could well be that a couple of months ago he was in that doctoral program, and his illness blew up. People with mental illness that has not troubled them in a major way but that does have the potential to blow up into a major issue are accepted into grad schools every year. Sometimes they get through the pressure of those programs and do fine for life. Sometimes the pressure of practice (med or law) causes enough stress that they have a complete break down - some recover, others do not. I personally know a few people to whom this has happened.

Having the grades and ability to function enough to gain admission to grad school means nothing to a mental illness that is lurking in your gene pool. It will either stay dormant, or present mildly, or make waves as it destroys the person's accomplishments and life. So yeah, could have happened here just like in school one day, and unraveling in the days and weeks that followed.

OTOH, there is also nothing definitive yet to suggest that he isn't just a young man who decided in a calculated way to commit a heinous crime. It will take more than a hair color job, calling himself The Joker and dressing like him, and spitting on the guards/etc in prison to support a mental illness diagnosis. We'll learn more in short order, I'd imagine.

That said, my observations so far put my money on mental illness for this one.

[slackmaster]

52. Confinement to a secure psychiatric facility for life is not "countryclub"

It's Bedlam. It's Hell.

[heaven05]

61. good

great

[Ter]

54. Something is not right

n/t

[NJCher]

60. from some of my late-night readings

A few things I've read:

--he's not that bright. His grad student supervisor asked him to put something together using Flash. He messed around with it all summer and couldn't accomplish it. The project, when handed in, was a "mess," according to the supervisor. Holmes later referred to this graduate school supervisor as his "mentor," and the supervisor vehemently denied it, saying that his assertion bordered on slander.

Also, not that it makes any difference, but I understand he is adopted. His family is not speaking out nor are they working with the authorities.

Also, one other thing. One expert that is quoted (he has studied common denominators in mass shootings) says that it's humiliation that causes the person to go berserk like this.


Cher