Dow breaks above 21,000 as stocks hit all-time highs after Trump's speech

[brooklynite]

Source: CNBC

U.S. equities traded sharply higher on Wednesday, with the Dow Jones industrial average climbing above 21,000 for the first time, on the back of President Donald Trump's speech to Congress.

The Dow advanced more than 200 points with Goldman Sachs contributing the most gains. The 30-stock index first closed above 20,000 on Jan. 25.

The S&P 500 climbed 1 percent, with financials rising 2.58 percent to lead advancers. The Nasdaq jumped 0.97 percent.

Read more: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/01/us-markets.html

[kimbutgar]

1. Before the crash in 1929 it reached new highs

After working several years in Wall Street this is such a bs rally. A lot of traders are chump supporters who are trading on emotion not facts or good quarterly earnings.

[brooklynite]

3. Just an observation the people said the same thing throughout the Obama Administration increases

[kimbutgar]

5. True, but companies were making money and increased quarterly earnings

And new jobs. Only 1 month in no company can show it's a result of chumps administration. This is Wall Street manipulating the market. I used to work with a right wing hedge fund trader and they trade on emotion not fundamentals. The dude made all his money in the nineties trading on emotion. Now they program those algorithms in the computer program.

[Bengus81]

39. The DOW didn't go up nearly 4,000 points in only four months back then.....

It took from March 2009 till mid Jan 2010 to climb 4,000 points.

[DetlefK]

7. "trading on emotion not facts"

And this is exactly the reason why even the most powerful computers in the world still cannot predict the stock-market.

[Yavin4]

30. They're trading on financial deregulation.

We're going back to the days of subprime lending.

[Hamlette]

38. yes, banks are deliriously happy

Not only no regulation but licensing of new banks which has not happened under Obama. At all. Banking lawyers are in high demand right now preparing applications for banks to submit to the FDIC.

[nikibatts]

2. The further to fall.

[chelsea0011]

4. Ok. I read the article and saw Goldman Sachs made the biggest gains (what a shock) but

what sectors is the money going? Is there actual investing going on in some quarters. Who gains in a trump world? Bankers only?

[DetlefK]

6. This is exactly the new economic bubble that Krugman et al. are warning about.

Krugman predicted that first the stocks will rise under Trump, because of hope and enthusiasm among investors that a future economic boom is imminent.
Then the investors will realize that Trump has no idea how to make that predicted economic boom actually come true.
Then they will retreat their money.
Then comes a small recession.

[yallerdawg]

8. That "historic 12 days in a row rally," best Dow performance since 1987?

Two things.

I remember my 401K in 1987. I don't recall that rally, but I do remember "Black Monday" when we suddenly realized our economic future and retirement was really just a crapshoot in a big casino rigged to profit the owners!

And that 12 day rally was a net .2% increase in Dow value - not 1% like a good day, .2% like a bad COLA adjustment.

"Irrational exuberance" and "animal spirits" are not sound financial footings.

We know what Republicans - even that faux one - are bringing to financial markets. Check the record.

[yeoman6987]

9. I remember 1987 too

I just left it alone and went on with sending my monthly check. As long as you don't cash out you don't lose. Too many buy high sell low. Dumb! Sorry it is.

[yallerdawg]

12. Seriously? You said that?

You didn't lose?

[yeoman6987]

13. It was 30 years ago. My funds recovered. Sorry to disappoint.

[yallerdawg]

16. "My funds recovered."

If your 65, or have been planning to retire on your stock-market based, government-backed investment portfolio - and it gets wiped out - do you get to wait 30 years, 10 years, 5 years, next year for it to come back?

Or is it just "the vagaries of market forces" and "invisible hands" - up and down - in other words, a freakin' crapshoot!

[IronLionZion]

26. Looks like it recovered quickly

"However, the economy was barely affected and growth actually increased throughout 1987 and 1988, with the DJIA regaining its pre-crash closing high of 2,722 points in early 1989."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987)

[yallerdawg]

28. I appreciate the unbounded faith exhibited in "The Stock Market."

If you have money sitting around - or an employer's incentive - or you have a lot of luck and don't consider 'a sure thing' gambling - then by all means play the market, send that money into that little 'fund' - evaluate your 'risk' by picking Plan A, Plan B, or Plan C - and then reevaluate it annually.

This all makes you a smart and prudent investor in your future.

Except every few years, something bad happens.

So, now it's not just planning your future and retirement. It's timing your future and retirement. You wanted to retire in 1987? You had planned on it, everything was perfect?

Boom!

Well, no problem - just wait a few more years, and you'll be back to where you were!

That's what you are saying?

[IronLionZion]

34. That's the system we have in our country

I'm sure a lot of baby boomers would have liked to retire in 2008-2009 when everything went to shit. If they had gradually shifted their investments from growth towards income/interest as they got older, they would have been in good shape to protect the value of their retirement funds during the stock recession even if they got fired before they were ready to retire. The value of bonds increased during that time as they slashed interest rates.

One does not lose it all if you don't sell.

Trump openly brags about taking advantage of crashes to buy when prices are low. People like him get very wealthy off of crashes.

You don't see fish jumping out of the ocean just because there are sharks.

[yallerdawg]

35. I regularly go to local casinos.

I meet a lot of people who "win."

I've known people who have won million dollar lotteries.

And yet - the casinos get bigger, the hotels get bigger, more casinos appear!

You don't see the dead fish that got eaten. But there are more and more sharks.

[IronLionZion]

37. Sharks will show you the one fish that became a shark

and say "see, if that fish could do it, so can you". They don't show you all the fish they ate along the way.

Yet there are still fish.

Although things could be backwards for Trump since he is such a brilliant businessman that he had to close casinos in Atlantic city and elsewhere. Also he was denied a casino license in Vegas.

[brooklynite]

11. I got -into- the market after Black Monday...

We invest regularly and for the long term. In the way you blame pro-Trump investors for reacting emotionally in expectation of profits, I think some people here are doing the reverse.

[yallerdawg]

14. Do you people remember the end of Bush's second term?

I like gambling, too. But now I do it in a real casino!

[brooklynite]

15. I do remember it...the market went down...and we continued investing

When prices were lower, we were acquiring more shares for the same investment.

Then prices started going up...

[yallerdawg]

17. You didn't lose money and valuation?

Let me ask you - would you like to manage your Social Security retirement in a private account like a 401K?

[brooklynite]

18. We lost money in the short-term...but recovered it in the long term.

As to Social Security, I think WE could manage it in the market effectively, but I wouldn't destabilize the underlying principles of SS by privatization. We're in a unique situation in that SS is largely irrelevant to us; we have substantial investable assets, a mortgage-free home and generous defined benefit pensions. We could retire today (ages 56-57) if work was no longer interesting.

[yallerdawg]

20. I know some retirees who consider that monthly payment from SS as...

"Steak and Lobster Day."

They're the fortunate ones. They certainly have a different outlook on many things.

[packman]

10. Waiting for it to pop

I was caught up twice in that rollercoaster ride and lost twice in my adventures on Wall Street - never again. Came to the conclusion that the whole thing is an elaborate Ponzi scheme and the only ones that make out on it are the ones who already have the money to manipulate the stock market.

It will crash - and Donny's family and friends will somehow make a fortune on it.

[OliverQ]

19. For the economically illiterate here

What happens when stocks skyrocket like this based on speculation? I get that Trump caters to Wall Street, so they see deregulation as a good thing. But what would cause the market to crash?

[ProfessorGAC]

23. Besides It's Only 1%

If it stays there for 30 days, it's the 1% every 30 days that the DJIA as been increasing for the last 8 years anyway. This is not even a statistically significant increase, except on a one day basis. For it to retain is significance it still has go up another 1% in the next 2 weeks and sustain that for the year. Absent that, this is much ado about nothing.

[NurseJackie]

21. I wonder how corporations with ties to the DOD are doing.

[ProfessorGAC]

22. There's No Causation

This analysis is just silly. A 1% bump in opening trading is not uncommon (look at a day to day statistical charting of DJIA or S&P), and it's not terribly uncommon for it to rise and stay until close.

There wasn't a thing in that speech that would have directly caused the spike no matter what CNBC people have to say.

[IronLionZion]

24. Warren Buffett is among the few liberals who think there's room to grow

and he believes valuations are fair.

Most liberal analysts think it's all Trumped up for a big crash that is going to suck.

There will be consequences to Trump's nonsense

[JackRiddler]

27. "Warren Buffett is among the few liberals..."

Thanks for the laugh.

Although conceded, this what "liberal" has come to mean to many - and why people take it as an attack term.

[brooklynite]

32. Right...because wealthy people CAN'T possibly be liberal.

Just like all poor people ARE liberal. Makes perfect sense.

[JackRiddler]

47. Anyone can be "liberal"

Billionaires cannot be the friends of the laboring classes from whom their wealth derives. And Buffett is not "wealthy," like you presumably are, he has a personal concentration of power and wealth that would never be allowed in a civilized society (of which none exist as yet).

[brooklynite]

51. Tell me...how much money does J.K. Rowling "deserve"?

Link to tweet

[JackRiddler]

54. 100 million is a fine cap I suppose.

Deserve has nothing to do with it. How much money do the coal-miners deserve? How much money do the children dying in coltan mines in Congo for our cellphones and computers deserve? Is this a democratic society without oligarchs, or do oligarchs run the show? If individual billionaires and for-profit corporations on the scale of the Exxons and JPMs are tolerated, then oligarchs will run the show.

[brooklynite]

56. "from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs"...I'm sure that'll catch on

[JackRiddler]

58. "All for ourselves, and nothing for other people...

seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind."

[brooklynite]

59. Good think Capitalism allows for a middle ground between the two extremes.

[Vinca]

25. Remember Obama getting credit for the market going up 14,000 points? Me neither.

[JackRiddler]

29. Why?

Giving Obama credit for what Wall Street did made for a pretty daily celebration around these parts.

Maybe one day people who rely on wages and salaries (or pensions, or nothing) as opposed to return on capital will realize that the price index of 30 big corporate stocks as chosen by a capitalist press organ may not be the best indicator of how well 90% of the people are actually doing.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

31. What do pension fund managers do with the money with which they have been entrusted?

Full disclosure: I have money in a 401k, a Roth IRA, and other things. The money is not limited to the thirty stocks in the DJIA.

A few days ago at DU:

Warren Buffett says this simple mistake has cost investors more than $100 billion

[JackRiddler]

49. Get suckered into the latest Wall Street scam, usually.

Now that they've recovered from the MBS scam a bit, I'm guessing some other bubbly chopped up debt instruments - oil and gas perhaps? - fraudulently rated AAA by the ratings agencies?

[yallerdawg]

33. How are we doing?

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[llmart]

42. We are going to have a retirement crisis in this country very shortly...

if it hasn't already begun, which I think it has. I'm a boomer - the old-timey definition of boomer - those born right after WWII. It used to be defined as several years after the soldiers came home from the war. Somewhere along the way they changed the definition to be those born from 1946 to 1964. I thought that was ludicrous since the war was long over in 1964. But I digress...

A lot of people my age are still not completely retired yet. I work part time as do many of my acquaintances/friends. Some still work full time. But when we all start leaving the work force for good and living off Social Security and whatever 401K money we had it's going to be a crisis. I know very few people who have a substantial enough savings to support them in retirement. I believe Frontline on PBS did an excellent documentary on the Retirement Crisis. It was very, very scary.

I know people who think that if they have $75,000 in a 401K they are doing great. Those people are in for a rude awakening. I also know many people who have a shopping addiction and can't break the habit. One of the best things I have going for me is I've always been non-materialistic and could care less about a closet full of clothes, pairs and pairs of shoes, gew gaws and knick knacks and jewelry, etc. Living on a small monthly amount doesn't make me feel deprived.

[yallerdawg]

43. Frontline.

Frontline went to a CEO and asked if his secretary could be allowed to manage his investment retirement portfolio.

CEO laughed and asked if they were crazy?

Frontline told CEO, "But you're telling your secretary to manage HER retirement."

[llmart]

46. Yep.

I clearly remember when we were all being sold on the idea of how wonderful the 401K was going to be as corporations slowly dismantled defined benefit plans that the previous generations had. I was probably about 30 years old and even then I could not believe how the people I worked with thought this was going to be the best thing since sliced bread was invented. I'm an HR professional and have dealt with employees for over 35 years and I could tell even back then that the majority of employees had no idea about even some of their basic finances let alone investing.

I think that is still true today. I'm still in HR/Benefits and I see it on a daily basis. I'm not faulting them. Also, a large number of employees don't make enough money to put away enough money for a comfortable retirement. I despise those trite articles about "if you just put even $10 a week into a retirement account you'll be so much better off..." blah, blah. blah. Really? Do the freakin' math! After 40 years you'll have invested less than $20K. Even with interest/gains (if there even are any) that isn't even going to be enough to live on for one year let alone 20 years.

Also, let's not forget that during the most recent crash (Bush years), many large corporations just stopped their part of the employer match because, yes, they can do that though most people were shocked that they could.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

45. "I believe Frontline on PBS did an excellent documentary on the Retirement Crisis."

Tonight on FRONTLINE: The Retirement Gamble

The video was aired on April 23, 2013.

Tonight on FRONTLINE: The Retirement Gamble

Phyllis C. Borzi appears in the show.

Google "Borzi," as in Phyllis Borzi, the Assistant Secretary of Labor for the Employee Benefits Security Administration.

Please see the article about excessive 401(k) fees in the September issue of Consumer Reports

There's a ton of information here:

Employee Benefits Security Administration

Understanding Your Retirement Plan Fees

Maximize Your Retirement Savings - Tips on Using the Fee and Investment Information From Your Retirement Plan

Disclosure: I have money in Vanguard funds.

Vanguard offers funds with active management, Jack Bogle's beliefs notwithstanding. It's like your grocery store. You can buy broccoli there, and you can buy chocolate-covered marshmallows there. They leave the choice up to you.

[itcfish]

36. He Will Take

all the credit.

[sarcasmo]

40. The pump and dump continues.

[brooklynite]

41. If that's the case, 30 years of pumping has done very nicely for me...

[sarcasmo]

44. Was around 7,000 when Obama took office.

[JackRiddler]

55. That is all that matters, right?

Deserving, valor, virtue, worth as a human being, imputed intelligence and refinement, culture and so forth, are all directly correlated to how much wealth as measured in dollars an individual can command.

[brooklynite]

57. When did I say that?

The issue at hand is whether investing in the market is a responsible personal action, or a "rigged" "ponzi scheme" as some people claim. My point is that an investment made AND HELD for 30+ years will, in the aggregate, overcome the short-term bumps in the road and provide a better return than any other available option. If you want to advocate for a guaranteed living pension for every person, you won't get any objection from me, but in the meantime, you're largely responsible for your own future.

[Metsie Casey]

48. That's a good thing

[sakabatou]

52. For now, yes

But how long until the bubble pops?

[elleng]

53. and on Thursday,

after Jeff Sessions Recuses Himself From Russia Inquiry. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/02/us/politics/jeff-sessions-russia-trump-investigation-democrats.html?

Dow drops 112 points, losing .53%, to close below the 21,000 high.