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packman

(16,296 posts)
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 11:55 AM Jan 2017

House Reinstates 1876 rule - $1 wage for civil servants

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-poli

"House Republicans this week reinstated an arcane procedural rule that enables lawmakers to reach deep into the budget and slash the pay of an individual federal worker down to $1 a move that threatens to upend the 130-year-old civil service.

The Holman Rule, named after an Indiana congressman who devised it in 1876, empowers any member of Congress to propose amending an appropriations bill to single out a government employee or cut a specific program"

Think environmental protection employees, intelligent gathering agents, anyone in the gov. not toeing the line


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/house-republicans-revive-obscure-rule-that-could-allow-them-to-slash-the-pay-of-individual-federal-workers-to-1/2017/01/04/4e80c990-d2b2-11e6-945a-76f69a399dd5_story.html?utm_term.8b1df03b35f3

Read more: Link to source





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House Reinstates 1876 rule - $1 wage for civil servants (Original Post) packman Jan 2017 OP
And the probability this is just coincidence w/the request of climate change personnel??? Roland99 Jan 2017 #1
Not just climate change personnel. Other groups were targeted like those working on women's health. LonePirate Jan 2017 #6
Wow, not even federal minimum wage. no_hypocrisy Jan 2017 #2
Well they don't show up anyways so I approve of this! Initech Jan 2017 #3
Wouldn't the Federal Minimum Wage supercede that? shraby Jan 2017 #4
I expect a lawsuit. progressoid Jan 2017 #9
No- James48 Jan 2017 #11
America was Great in 1876. So this makes sense. ffr Jan 2017 #5
Panic of 1873 Javaman Jan 2017 #13
Hey man! Don't go all elitist on my lack of history knowledge. Murika was great. ffr Jan 2017 #18
But, emails.. congratulations m$m.. you propaganda poBullshit.. Cha Jan 2017 #27
Terrorizing civil servants until they comply. Baitball Blogger Jan 2017 #7
Wowzers ghostsinthemachine Jan 2017 #8
Lot's of Gov't employees VOTE GOP - I know it's crazy, but it's true. vkkv Jan 2017 #10
They aren't worried because this bolsters their cronyism. joshcryer Jan 2017 #17
Worked in Federal Law Enforcement.... Wuddles440 Jan 2017 #12
Include Congress or STFU n/t TexasBushwhacker Jan 2017 #14
Ah, the Reconstruction era. THAT'S the America Republicans want to FailureToCommunicate Jan 2017 #15
No that was the post Reconstruction era. former9thward Jan 2017 #21
The "first KKK" was fully functioning terrorist bands during and directly reacting to FailureToCommunicate Jan 2017 #23
THIS! Be sure to ask conservatives in your life Hortensis Jan 2017 #16
Thanks, I am so doing this!! Grey Lemercier Jan 2017 #19
it also offers the opportunity to earn a certificate in ignorance. Hortensis Jan 2017 #20
More Lying, Cheating and Stealing Doitnow Jan 2017 #22
They are going to try to destroy the Civil Service not fooled Jan 2017 #24
Ok. $1 salary for all members of the House and Senate. roamer65 Jan 2017 #25
Most of them are rich they would hardly care, no if you want them to hurt then cstanleytech Jan 2017 #26
So that's what they meant by MAGA JDC Jan 2017 #28
What. The. Fuck. !? inanna Jan 2017 #29
The Purge (R) is underway. Only the puRE will survive. Achilleaze Jan 2017 #30
Might violate constitutional ban on bills of attainder. Yo_Mama Jan 2017 #31

LonePirate

(13,424 posts)
6. Not just climate change personnel. Other groups were targeted like those working on women's health.
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 12:15 PM
Jan 2017

They are preparing an all out destruction on government and life as we know it.

no_hypocrisy

(46,114 posts)
2. Wow, not even federal minimum wage.
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 12:06 PM
Jan 2017

How about slashing the pay of congressional representatives and senators down to $1 and see who shows up? (Wait a minute! I forgot about the honorariums and donations and gifts. They may not miss their salaries after all.)

James48

(4,436 posts)
11. No-
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 03:57 PM
Jan 2017

In this case, a law passed by Congress would supercede the older law passed by Congress- and there would be no "minimum wage" for Federal workers.

ffr

(22,670 posts)
5. America was Great in 1876. So this makes sense.
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 12:14 PM
Jan 2017

Women and minorities didn't have the right to vote either. So that would also fall in line.

How's this working for you Joe and Jane rust belt voter? Are you seeing the jobs pour in yet? Feel good about shaking up Washington? Feeling better about not voting for Hillary, the adult in the room?

Good grief!!!

Baitball Blogger

(46,715 posts)
7. Terrorizing civil servants until they comply.
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 12:17 PM
Jan 2017

They have so many already "trained" in local and state government.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
10. Lot's of Gov't employees VOTE GOP - I know it's crazy, but it's true.
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 01:09 PM
Jan 2017


I bet they're very happy...


joshcryer

(62,271 posts)
17. They aren't worried because this bolsters their cronyism.
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 05:25 PM
Jan 2017

If you don't fall in line you're toast.

Wuddles440

(1,123 posts)
12. Worked in Federal Law Enforcement....
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 04:06 PM
Jan 2017

for over 30 years and it always amazed me about the number of Federal workers who are staunch rebubliCONS. Routinely voting against their own economic interests like so many other groups in America. Must be some sort of self-loathing because the CONS have only utter contempt for civil servants and never miss an opportunity to demean them.

former9thward

(32,012 posts)
21. No that was the post Reconstruction era.
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 09:43 PM
Jan 2017

In the Reconstruction era blacks were elected to the U.S. Senate and House all across the south. They were all Republicans. Then former slave owners who were the Democratic party at the time fought back with gangs such as the KKK.

After the disputed Presidential election of 1876 between Democrat Samuel J. Tilden and Republican Rutherford B. Hayes, a national agreement between Democratic and Republican factions was negotiated, resulting in the Compromise of 1877. Under the compromise, Democrats conceded the election to Hayes and promised to acknowledge the political rights of blacks; Republicans agreed to withdraw federal troops from the South and promised to appropriate a portion of federal monies toward Southern projects.

The withdrawal of federal troops allowed the KKK to terrorize unabated.

FailureToCommunicate

(14,014 posts)
23. The "first KKK" was fully functioning terrorist bands during and directly reacting to
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 11:13 PM
Jan 2017

the political gains of Reconstruction, before Reconstruction officially ended. The KKK did indeed revitalize and terrorize unabated again after the withdrawal of the federal troops.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
16. THIS! Be sure to ask conservatives in your life
Fri Jan 6, 2017, 05:06 PM
Jan 2017

how they feel about this, nicely with sincere interest of course, and be prepared to explain what it is since they either won't have heard (probable) or will have been fed some very strange twist on it.

Maybe suggest anyone with business with the federal government, like renewing a passport, should do it NOW or plan for very long delays.

Btw, a MOOC on "Ignorance!" begins on January 10.

"Ignorance! provides a comprehensive framework for understanding how people think about unknowns, how they deal with them, and even how certain kinds of ignorance are enshrined in cultures and social institutions. We’ll be taking you on a tour through ignorance in all its varieties and guises. Ignorance is everyone’s business. Ignorance is relevant to every discipline and profession, and to everyday life, both at work and at play.

We will explore questions about ignorance such as the following: Where does ignorance come from? How do we impose it on each other, and even on ourselves? And why? We usually think about ignorance as a bad thing, but when can it be preferable not to know something? What uses do people have for ignorance? What roles does ignorance play in social interaction, group relations, institutions, and law? Can ignorance sometimes be a virtue? When can ignorance be good or bad for us? How can we harness the unknown for learning, discovery, and creativity? How can we make good decisions under ignorance?

Your understanding of ignorance will be expanded via online games, discussion forums, opportunities to find out what your own “ignorance profile” is, additional readings, and Wiki materials. There also will be discussion threads specifically for those of you who want to apply understandings about ignorance to complex social and environmental problems. Knowing more about ignorance will help you to manage it and work with it. It also will help you in dealing with the unexpected, with complex problems, and even wicked problems.


Seems timely. I'm thinking of signing up.
https://www.edx.org/course/ignorance-anux-igno101x-0

not fooled

(5,801 posts)
24. They are going to try to destroy the Civil Service
Sat Jan 7, 2017, 12:05 AM
Jan 2017

and displace the anger of some Americans towards gov't onto Federal CS workers, instead of the corrupt Congress.

They want 'Muricans thinking that the reason gov't is broken is Federal workers, rather than obstructionist, corrupt 'puke legislators.

Same thing that they did by displacing anger at the loss of jobs from the real culprits, capitalism itself and the CEOs who decided to send jobs overseas, to poor Hispanics coming to the U.S. for work.

Any Federal worker who was stupid enough to vote for these assholes is gonna really regret it.



cstanleytech

(26,291 posts)
26. Most of them are rich they would hardly care, no if you want them to hurt then
Sun Jan 8, 2017, 01:56 AM
Jan 2017

the only way is to use this against any workers in their offices that are paid with federal money.
You aim that weapon at them and the varies Senators and Congressmen and women will be screaming suddenly.

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
30. The Purge (R) is underway. Only the puRE will survive.
Sun Jan 8, 2017, 09:46 AM
Jan 2017

Inspired by Russia's fabulous tyrant Joseph 'Massacre' Stalin, Comrade Trump & Republican Cronies, Inc. will now shitcan all who fail to ASSUME THE POSITION and OBEY.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
31. Might violate constitutional ban on bills of attainder.
Sun Jan 8, 2017, 11:54 AM
Jan 2017
http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/62/bill-of-attainder
The Framers forbade bills of attainder as part of their strategy of undoing the English law of treason, and to contend with what they regarded as the most serious historical instances of legislative tyranny by state or national legislatures. Professor Raoul Berger argues that the bill of attainder clauses (see also Article I, Section 10, Clause 1) protect only against legislative actions that affect the life of the individual, not his property, which was the province of bills of pains and penalties. Beginning with Chief Justice John Marshall, however, the Supreme Court has insisted that "a Bill of Attainder may affect the life of an individual, or may confiscate his property, or may do both." Fletcher v. Peck (1810).

Marshall and his successors saw the Bill of Attainder Clause as an element of the separation of powers. As the decisions of the Court in Marbury v. Madison (1803) and United States v. Klein (1871) made clear, only a court can hold a trial, evaluate the evidence, and determine the merits of the claim or accusation. The Constitution forbade the Congress from "exercis[ing] the power and office of judge." Cummings v. Missouri (1867). In United States v. Brown (1965), the Court specifically rejected a "narrow historical approach" to the clauses and characterized the Framers' purpose as to prohibit "legislative punishment, of any form or severity, of specifically designated persons or groups."


It would be interesting to see this litigated. In practice, I think the courts would rule against any Congressional action which did this to a certain person for a specific reason. However Congress is probably able to pass legislation mandating general compensation rules (power of the purse). But to single out a particular employee or a group of employees by name and drastically cut their compensation probably is not constitutional at all.

Because the Constitution prohibits Congress from cutting US judiciary compensation, the courts might be a little less alert to this issue than otherwise:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleiii
Section 1.

The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office.


Or the courts might look at this as a guideline, and argue that cutting salaries of those that the Executive has lawfully appointed is an impingement on the constitutional power of the Executive even if it is done in a way that does not amount to a Bill of Attainder.
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