Citywide tactical alert as Occupy LA protesters skirmish with riot police

[OmahaBlueDog]

Source: MSNBC.com

Los Angeles was placed on a citywide tactical alert Thursday night when hundreds of people, including Occupy LA protesters, gathered near the city's downtown as part of a protest by the group that set up camp on the City Hall lawn late last year.

Shortly after 11 p.m. (2 a.m. ET Friday), police ordered the crowd to leave the area. At least two officers were injured in the protests that turned violent, the Los Angeles Times reported, and dozens of arrests were believed to have been made, though exact numbers were not available, said Officer Karen Rayner of the police department.

"This kind of took us by surprise, we were not expecting them to show up tonight," Rayner said.

The demonstration started at about 8:40 p.m. (11:40 p.m.) Thursday, when protesters began taking over the intersection of Fifth and Spring streets, Rayner said.



Read more: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/13/12716864-citywide-tactical-alert-as-occupy-la-protesters-skirmish-with-riot-police?lite

[caseymoz]

1. Flash demonstration? nt

[robinlynne]

16. Actually the local news said it was an annual downtown artwalk. As part of that someone organized

people writing on the sidewalk with chalk. or street. so not exaclty flash. Anthe event was taking place; people joined and added some discourse to teh artwalk.

[warrprayer]

2. Doesn't sound like

... a dead movement to me.

[hack89]

3. No - just an ineffective one. nt

[truth2power]

5. We'll see. I hope you're wrong. n/t

[Bragi]

6. Yep.nt

[Zorra]

7. The very fact that you know about Occupy proves that Occupy is effective.

"The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood."

- Martin Luther King Jr.,

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

-Martin Luther King Jr.

[Bragi]

10. Hardly

Occupy is well known because it is an infamous, failed and unsustainable political tactic that demolished widespread public support for the 99% movement.

[Zorra]

15. I'm sorry, that's just wrong. You would not have just used the term 99% if it were not for Occupy.

Linguists name 'occupy' as 2011's word of the year

The linguists have spoken and they have decided -- Occupy is 2011's word of the year

Members of the American Dialect Society came out in record numbers to vote Friday night at the organization's annual conference, held this year in Portland, Oregon.

"Occupy" won a runoff vote by a whopping majority, earning more votes than "FOMO" (an acronym for "Fear of Missing Out," describing anxiety over being inundated by the information on social media) and "the 99%," (those held to be at a financial or political disadvantage to the top moneymakers, the one-percenters).

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-07/us/us_2011-word-of-year_1_linguists-american-dialect-society-new-words-committee?_s=PM:US

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16575

We're all still here, waiting...well, there's many more of us now. Waiting. You can't stop the inevitable.

No matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, you can't kill an idea, and you can't wish it away.

<<<>>>

[Bragi]

19. Occupy is a failed tactic, not a movement

The important political movement here is about addressing social and economic inequality, not about the failing tactic of trying to occupy places, a tactic in which few people can or are prepared to participate, a tactic which is easy for the 1% to defeat.

I look forward to the time when people on the left can openly acknowledge that the Occupy tactic has failed so we could then discuss why it failed, and maybe come up with a better and more sustainable tactic to combat inequality.

As long as the badge of political correctness is to pretend that Occupy is a great ongoing success, despite the clear evidence to the contrary, then it will be hard to move forward and build the "99% movement" for social and economic equality.

- B

[Zorra]

29. Meh. Rehashed Third Way anti-Occupy talking points.

Try some new material, I read that same tired schtick on DU in Oct 2011.

[Bragi]

36. Back then I was prredicting failure, now we know it has failed

Since the failure of Occupy is now obvious, I'm hoping we can soon admit it and discuss why it has failed, and come up with a better strategy to oppose inequality than Occupy.

I'm not thinking the heavily-invested in Occupy (Meh) will take part, but maybe the vast majority of progressive people, those who don't participate in Occupy and who know it isn't working, can start to find a better way of opposing inequality.

[Zorra]

38. The thing is, you seem to have absolutely no conception of what Occupy is.

And if you haven't gotten the idea by now, no one will be able to explain it to you.

Progressives still support Occupy.

Regressives never did, and they never will.

[Bragi]

44. Thing is, Zorra, Occupy is showing few vital signs at this point

All but a few Occupy camps/demos have ceased to exist, the predicted weather-related summer resurgence never happened, very few people anywhere participate in whatever meetings or actions the dwindling Occupy rump group holds, and very few people pay them much attention any more, other than local media, who happily report, with their usual servility, occasional clashes between remaining Occupy activists claiming to represent the 99%, and police working dutifully for the 1%.

So what more evidence does a reasonable person need to conclude that the Occupy tactic is way past its best-before date?

Seriously, Zora, (or anyone else) how about moving beyond the pejorative typecasting and branding of contrary views, and instead, state your case about the alleged continued robust growth and vitality of Occupy? What's the evidence for that view? - B

[Zorra]

46. It is not unreasonable to dismiss the opinions of those who apparently have absolutely no clue

about the nature of the idea that they are discussing, or who consistently base their claims on non-supportable opinions that are counter to demonstrable fact, and without providing any sources, other than maybe some Third Way blog claptrap, for their claims whatsoever, in order to promote an obvious agenda.

First of all:

"state your case about the alleged continued robust growth and vitality of Occupy? What's the evidence for that view? - B"

Just googlenews and google Occupy. This evidence will be right in front of you. I just did. Of course, you will of course counter with "oh, this is not evidence", and then proceed with another circular argument as to why this is not really evidence, because that is the MO of your agenda.

I will not respond to your posts anymore after this. I've seen this type of argument/discussion here many times before, it is commonly used among a certain group of posters who apparently have the same agenda, and I know where it is going, and what you are doing. The "book" says that if I tell someone that they are wasting my time because they are using circular logic/reasoning, and that I'm done with the conversation because of this, the standard response is "Ha! See? You can't answer my questions?"

Oh, well.

Therefore, I am going to try to get this through to you one last time. You have been wasting my time, because it is plain to me that you either can't understand Occupy, or you are playing the game of being deliberately obtuse, possibly because you apparently have some anti-Occupy personal agenda and/are a staunch status quo system/corporate supporter.

You apparently see Occupy as a purely physical, material phenomenon.

If so, there's no possible way for you to understand this subject. If you do recognize Occupy as something beyond the purely physical, then, again, I can only believe that you are apparently either being deliberately obtuse because of a pro-system/pro-status quo/pro corporate political agenda, or that you simply have difficulty grasping the existence of any form of noumena, or the interaction between phenomena and noumena.

The cops were beating the shit out of us, usually illegally, at every opportunity. We can't do anything from hospital beds, or from jail. Going to court, even if you are not convicted, is expensive and time consuming. If you are convicted, you get a criminal record. (I strongly suspect that you have no first hand experiences of this nature). We can't do much from hospital beds and jail cells. We all understand that we have already brought the problem of the 1% dictatorship to the full attention of most of the public. This was step #1. Now, because we can't do much from hospital beds and jail cells, it makes no sense for us to be sitting ducks for sociopathic cops with weapons they are not afraid to aggressively use on innocent people. These cops serve the 1%, and have no respect for, or allegiance to, the Constitution. Most of these cops are ignorant conservative republicans who would like nothing better than to shoot us radical liberals dead in the street. Because we have already made the problem of the 1% obvious, we now need to choose how and when to act more carefully. Again, we can't do much from hospital beds and jail cells. A simple, legal art walk in LA was just viciously, illegally, and violently attacked by 1% serving sociopathic police.

And you expect us to go camp in parks for the police to round up and beat us up at their leisure?

I know that you can't possibly be that dull; you write very coherently.

The truth about LAPD's violent attack upon the downtown Artwalk.

I find it almost completely impossible to believe that you have not already deduced this, and this is a primary reason why I am cutting off this conversation with this post. You are obviously arguing on behalf of an agenda, and nothing I can say or present can possibly convince you of anything, no matter how real, factual, or logical what I say to you, or present to you, is.

Have a nice day.

[Bragi]

47. See response below

In response to my request that you state your case and offer proof as to the robust health of the Occupy movement, you wrote:

Just googlenews and google Occupy. This evidence will be right in front of you. I just did. Of course, you will of course counter with "oh, this is not evidence", and then proceed with another circular argument as to why this is not really evidence, because that is the MO of your agenda."

Thanks for anticipating my response, but it isn't the response I'd make. I think google searches can have some validity for relative visibility analysis purposes. In this instance, what would be relevant to my point is not that there are still some media hits for Occupy. Instead, do a google news search of Occupy from, say, the period from September to November 2011. Count the hits. then do a search of googlenews hits from, say, the last two months. I believe what you will see is a dramatic decline decline in media attention since last fall.

I leave it to you to do that search. I think the results you will see will support my point about Occupy failing, they do not support your contention that it still is a robust movement that gets a lot of attention. It has all but fallen off the media radar.

You then wrote:

Iill not respond to your posts anymore after this. I've seen this type of argument/discussion here many times before, it is commonly used among a certain group of posters who apparently have the same agenda, and I know where it is going, and what you are doing. The "book" says that if I tell someone that they are wasting my time because they are using circular logic/reasoning, and that I'm done with the conversation because of this, the standard response is "Ha! See? You can't answer my questions?"

Oh, well.

Oh well indeed. You then continue:

Therefore, I am going to try to get this through to you one last time. You have been wasting my time, because it is plain to me that you either can't understand Occupy, or you are playing the game of being deliberately obtuse, possibly because you apparently have some anti-Occupy personal agenda and/are a staunch status quo system/corporate supporter.

You apparently see Occupy as a purely physical, material phenomenon.

I'm not sure that the case, but at least you seem to be making an actual point in rebuttal, which I' happy to address.

I do not think that Occupy is a purely physical,material phenomenon. Rather, I think "Occupy" is an political tactic which aims to achieve, through organized action by its supporters, a "visible presence" that will draw widespread attention from the community at large, to the views and goals of its participants.

The problem I have with Occupy is its constantly diminishing ability to successfully draw attention to its views and goals. Fewer and fewer people are paying it any attention, and even fewer still are participating.

In my view, the reason for this is that the Occupy tactic is unsustainable. Most people can't or won't participate, and its easier and easier for the media owned by the 1% and the cops who work for the 1% to ignore/discredit/bust up such occupy manifestations as continue to happen.

You then write:

If you do recognize Occupy as something beyond the purely physical, then, again, I can only believe that you are apparently either being deliberately obtuse because of a pro-system/pro-status quo/pro corporate political agenda, or that you simply have difficulty grasping the existence of any form of noumena, or the interaction between phenomena and noumena.

Okay, I did have to look up "noumena", and I'm sure I'm a smarter person for it. However, it doesn't really help me conclude that the Occupy tactic is still actually working. The concept of unjust, growing inequality, and the class battle between the 99% and the 1% remain as vivid, true and as supportable by most people now as was the case a year ago. What's changed is that the Occupy tactic no longer works as a good way to promote awareness, and bring about action commensurate with the real support for the idea of addressing inequality.

Anyway, so say I. There isn't much I can say in response to the rest of your post, which is mostly a screed against my apparent secret agenda to promote inequality and injustice by being critical of the efficacy of the Occupy tactic.

You have a nice day too.

- B

[robinlynne]

17. bullshitsky.

[Odin2005]

35. As opposed to spineless DLC Third Way servility?

[4th law of robotics]

39. I know about the Westboro Baptist Church too

they are hardly effective.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

11. Agreed. Not enough smashed windows and street trials of Wall St execs...

There will be no sarcasm smilie.

[hack89]

12. Might as well go out with a bang instead of a wimper. nt

[slackmaster]

4. This is bullshit. It couldn't have been real Occupy people. Must have been agents provocateurs.

[Zorra]

30. No. Here's the real bullshit: "Media Pounces on False DNA Link to OWS Protests, Student's Murder"

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/07/11-4

So remember that DNA link to a OWSer .... turns out FALSE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002948953

There are no Agents Provacateurs. The police are justified in hurting non-violent protesters. Our corporate masters, like Rupert Murdoch, would never stoop to spreading lies to damage Occupy

Do. Not. Question. Authority. OBEY! Your corporate rulers know what is best for you. Occupy is bad, bad, bad! Work diligently to spread the word to the far corners of the internets!

[randome]

8. This is how the Occupy ends.

Not with a bang but in a swirl of chalk dust.

[Zorra]

31. You'd really love that, wouldn't you?

The Third Way Party would too.

Ain't gonna happen.

[kestrel91316]

9. WTF is with the CITYWIDE tactical alert?? Jesus wept.

There is nothing going on here in the Valley. A less politically involved bunch doesn't exist anywhere else in the country.

Gawd, I'll probably see dozens of police cars on the way to work this morning. What a lot of nonsense.

[snot]

13. I thot this was just an artwalk – last I heard, Occupy wasn't even involved.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002939669 .

[Blue State Bandit]

14. This was an L.A ArtWalk event. It started when a woman was arrested for chalking on the ground.

http://www.tumblr.com/liked/by/politicore#



http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/07/downtown-la-artwalk.html

[loyalsister]

18. "This kind of took us by surprise, we were not expecting them to show up tonight,"??

It sounds like occupy disrupted a community event that was scheduled and protected by police.

It is one thing to occupy in appropriate venues relevant to the cause. When it spills out to disrupt the lives of people who do not have the power to make the changes sought but simply want to go about their business, it defeats and discredits the original purpose.

[randome]

20. No one's in charge. That's why it's nearly always a kerfuffle now.

[loyalsister]

24. Yep

I was hoping they might develop into a coherent advocacy organization with leadership and a clear mission. If they had people following policy and others who organize actions when they send a clear message there's a chance they could be effective in advocacy for a number of issues. Instead various branches have gotten distracted by hating the cops.

[4th law of robotics]

40. It's almost as if they have no plan or overall coherent strategy

that they're just sort of getting together and occasionally breaking things on a whim rather than towards any particular goal.

But hey, we're talking about them. That means they've already won!

[Hotler]

21. Maybe if there was tens of thousands at each protest.....

the cops wouldn't feel so powerful. It saddens me to think that all the able bodied members of DU are not in the streets to support OWS. Nothing is going to start to change intil people take to the streets in mass just like over in the mideast. Voting every 2&4 yrs. alone will not cut it. We need to shut cities and towns down for weeks at a time. No guts no glory people. Just like our elected Dems. in washington and at the state level the democratic citizens of the country have no fight, no spine. All talk and no action. Flame away.

[randome]

22. No one is in charge.

Even the Democratic Party (as all-encompassing as it tries to be) needs a leader.

[warrprayer]

23. "Who's in command here"?

[randome]

25. Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

Everyone doing their own thing and then someone at the end claiming to be in charge.

Except with OWS, no one wants to step up and take charge. Because if they did and no one tried to 'take them out' as they claim to fear, it would prove they are ineffective.

With the Democratic Party, we at least have a nominal head, the President. And there are 'streams' of coordination within the Party. It's never going to be a completely united organization.

[Zorra]

32. Sheep need leaders...

...but leaders don't need sheep.

[Inkfreak]

26. I don't want my town "shut down"

Occupy says it speaks for me? I didn't ask them to. I speak for myself and vote for democrats. Besides, they often say they have no affiliation with any parties. That means MY party. The Dems. Just because I despise the elites with all their $, doesn't mean I condone the lunacy I see on tv from occupy. But I know......its not "real" occupiers. Just provocatuers who are sent in to make them look bad

[Hotler]

27. Welcome to DU. You have yours, don't worry about the rest of us.

Give me some examples of how bad things need to be before you are willing to take to the streets in protest.

[Odin2005]

33. WAAAAAH, cry me a fucking river. The world doesn't revolve around YOU.

This bashing of Occupations because they are "disrupting my life, WAAAAH!!!" is a selfish, servile attitude from people who wouldn't know what the notion of sacrifice for the greater good was even if it smacked them in the face.

[4th law of robotics]

41. So far OWS has proven they are far more capable at disrupting the lives of average citizens

the "99%" than they are at actually doing anything to the 1%.

Cops are blue collar, businesses harmed during a riot are mostly owned and staffed by blue collar types. Preventing people from driving to work is only going to hurt those that have to drive to work (blue collar).

It's like if the civil rights movement had focused exclusively on burning down black neighborhoods to stick it to the man.

Doesn't make any sense. They have achieved two things: 1) discredit every issue they stand behind and 2) turn average folks against them.

[randome]

43. Not so.

It was OWS last year who inspired my signature line.

[Bragi]

28. Good questions

I think a good discussion to get us from here to where you want to go is to ask ourselves why #Occupy has fizzled.The problem is that first people have to admit that the Occupy tactic has, to put it moderately, stalled out, That isn't easy for many good people who are now deeply involved for all the right reasons.

[Odin2005]

34. I see the Third Way Corporatists are here to bash Occupy.

[Bragi]

37. WTF is a "Third Way Corporatist"

Does your branch of Anarcho-Trostkyism have an online dictionary of standard slurs the rest of us can reference?

[warrprayer]

45. Here's one!

[4th law of robotics]

42. It's true, anyone who points out the flaws in OWS or its tactics necessarily

is a shill for the dreaded Corporations (which one? ALL OF THEM!).

In no way are they simply pointing out obvious facts.