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Judi Lynn

(160,635 posts)
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 07:37 PM Aug 2016

Social media deactivated during police standoff with woman

Source: Associated Press

Social media deactivated during police standoff with woman

Juliet Linderman, Associated Press

Updated 6:29 pm, Tuesday, August 2, 2016

BALTIMORE (AP) — In the midst of a five-hour standoff that turned deadly, Facebook granted an emergency request from the Baltimore County Police Department to take offline the social media accounts belonging to a woman who wielded a shotgun at officers.

Baltimore County Police officers shot and killed Korryn Gaines, 23, after she barricaded herself inside her Randallstown apartment with her 5-year-old son and pointed a shotgun at officers attempting to serve an arrest warrant.

Police Chief Jim Johnson said Tuesday that the department made the emergency request to have Gaines' social media accounts suspended after she posted videos online showing the standoff. People who saw the postings, Johnson said, responded by encouraging her to not to comply with police.

Videos posted on Facebook and Instagram appeared to show Gaines, who was black, talking with police in the doorway to her apartment and to her son during the standoff. In one, she asks her son what the police are trying to do.

Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Social-media-deactivated-during-police-standoff-9068820.php

39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Social media deactivated during police standoff with woman (Original Post) Judi Lynn Aug 2016 OP
Why must this violence continue? saidsimplesimon Aug 2016 #1
"Why must this be the last memory a 5 year old has of his mother?" EX500rider Aug 2016 #4
The police officers in my family saidsimplesimon Aug 2016 #6
"I do not know all the facts in this situation." EX500rider Aug 2016 #9
She was also being arrested on an assault warrant ripcord Aug 2016 #13
No, the assault charge was the boyfriend. arithia Aug 2016 #15
If they had a warrant, they can enter her home with her permission or without it. Sand Rat Expat Aug 2016 #18
Why are all your suggestions violent? arithia Aug 2016 #20
Per the article... Sand Rat Expat Aug 2016 #22
You seem to have missed my point arithia Aug 2016 #25
I had an idea your response would be along these lines. Sand Rat Expat Aug 2016 #37
White guys point guns at cops and live to do it again IronLionZion Aug 2016 #8
Were there arrest warrants issued for those individuals and did they actually shoot at the officers? EX500rider Aug 2016 #10
Yes IronLionZion Aug 2016 #12
And did they take any shots at the cops? If they didnt then its not relevant in this instance since cstanleytech Aug 2016 #14
It's a difference in strength. christx30 Aug 2016 #19
No, no, no. Igel Aug 2016 #26
Once upon a midnight dreary? saidsimplesimon Aug 2016 #36
If those idiots had opened fire on the Federal agents christx30 Aug 2016 #38
Because militarized police have declared war on Americans. Feeling the Bern Aug 2016 #5
She was a sovereign citizen douchebag snooper2 Aug 2016 #27
This is tough one - a slippery slope of blocking out police actions nadine_mn Aug 2016 #2
And that line has now been crossed. I see this being applied world wide NWCorona Aug 2016 #3
Today, a single woman. Tomorrow, the next Ferguson. Companions with Turkey, Iran, Pakistan. TheBlackAdder Aug 2016 #7
Exactly! NWCorona Aug 2016 #16
While the event that fits the approved narrative will get top billing. NWCorona Aug 2016 #17
Cover up, pure and simple. MrScorpio Aug 2016 #11
Surely you jest. NaturalHigh Aug 2016 #31
I don't believe the police narrative for one second MrScorpio Aug 2016 #32
That's your prerogative, I suppose. NaturalHigh Aug 2016 #33
The police kill way more of us than necessary MrScorpio Aug 2016 #34
Perhaps police could have backed off, then picked her up later after she left apartment? Midnight Writer Aug 2016 #21
Per the article, they were negotiating with her when she aimed the shotgun at an officer. Sand Rat Expat Aug 2016 #23
Maybe they should've done that with the Orlando shooter as well NobodyHere Aug 2016 #24
Only Bundy & Co. get that kind of kid-glove treatment. n/t Coventina Aug 2016 #35
see? Just like that. librechik Aug 2016 #28
Your right to social media stops when you threaten police with a shotgun Taitertots Aug 2016 #29
I think this is a person who should not have been allowed to purchase a weapon... StraightRazor Aug 2016 #30
Thank you Judi saidsimplesimon Aug 2016 #39

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
1. Why must this violence continue?
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 07:47 PM
Aug 2016

What was the warrant for? Was the mother a drug user under the influence? Why must this be the last memory a 5 year old has of his mother?

EX500rider

(10,874 posts)
4. "Why must this be the last memory a 5 year old has of his mother?"
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 08:02 PM
Aug 2016

Because his mother made some really bad choices?

If the police show up at your door for any reason, pointing a shotgun at them is the last thing you should do....and shooting at them as she did is bound to end poorly.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
6. The police officers in my family
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 08:17 PM
Aug 2016

tell me that "conflict resolution" is key to their survival. I do not know all the facts in this situation. I grieve for the child left with this horrible outcome.

EX500rider

(10,874 posts)
9. "I do not know all the facts in this situation."
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 08:34 PM
Aug 2016

I do know the police showed up to arrest her for a minor charge (due to be arrested for an outstanding traffic violation at the time, she didn't show up for court and the judge issued a arrest warrant for her) and she responded with a shotgun and fired at the police. If you are being arrested on a minor charge, pointing a shotgun at the police is the last thing you do.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36957962

ripcord

(5,546 posts)
13. She was also being arrested on an assault warrant
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 09:09 PM
Aug 2016

I saw another article that said in place of her license plate she put a sign warning police not to interfere with her right to travel, could she have been a sovereign citizen?

arithia

(455 posts)
15. No, the assault charge was the boyfriend.
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 10:35 PM
Aug 2016

She was "resisting" and "disorderly conduct" over the traffic stop mentioned in the article.

She previously sued a landlord over lead exposure and was diagnosed with behavioral issues by a medical professional.

Like so many other people killed by police, this woman was mentally ill.

Maryland is a Castle Doctrine state. She likely took them entering her home via the landlords key (something the Baltimore PD now admits might not be legal, they are looking into it) as a hostile entry. She indicated over social media (before it was shut down) that she feared for her life and warned the police to retreat from her home.

This is another tragedy that didn't have to happen.

Sand Rat Expat

(290 posts)
18. If they had a warrant, they can enter her home with her permission or without it.
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:29 PM
Aug 2016

Not sure how getting the key from the landlord really changes anything.

I'm not sure what they could've done differently here, really. The presence of the kid means they couldn't have deployed tear gas or flashbangs or another method to disable her, since any such tactic would've affected the kid just as much.

arithia

(455 posts)
20. Why are all your suggestions violent?
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 12:20 AM
Aug 2016

Police in other countries routinely execute warrants and arrest hostile and mentally ill citizens without violence because they are trained properly to do so. Why not our police?

When knowingly engaging with someone who is hostile, mentally erratic and has already stated that they fear for their safety around the police, it's not a good idea to bust into their frakin house to serve a warrant. It's just not. When dealing with victims of domestic violence, it's not a good idea to come busting in either. (Her bf's assault charge was a 2nd degree assault of Gaines herself.) They knew she was unstable. They knew she was a victim of violence, which makes her further unstable. Why then take such an aggressive approach to bringing her in over a traffic stop?

Police have precious little training on how to interact with the mentally ill and cops are often the first line of contact that the ill have with the legal/mental health care system. People with no training and no understanding of why people might be acting erratically are given guns and free reign to fire if they "feel threatened".

Just like that poor autistic kid playing in the street with a toy truck and his counselor who was shot- the cop who uttered "I don't know" serves as a disturbing example for how the stress of interacting with someone who is acting outside of social norms can influence someone's fear response.

This wasn't a hardened bank robber, murderer or otherwise violent criminal- she was a lovely young mother with some cognitive issues and a cardboard license plate. This woman should have been assigned a social worker and referred to mental health care agencies. Instead, her family has to bury her.

Sand Rat Expat

(290 posts)
22. Per the article...
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 02:24 AM
Aug 2016

At one point during the negotiations, she pointed the shotgun directly at an officer and said, "If you don't leave, I'm going to kill you." It's important to note that word: negotiations. They didn't simply roll in, guns blazing, and shoot her. They spent five hours talking to her, and at the end of that time, she pointed a weapon at an officer and threatened to kill him.

I'm sorry, but if you point a weapon at a police officer, you're going to get shot. There's no discussion, it is a simple fact. She pointed a weapon at a person (a crime) and threatened to kill that person (also a crime). The officers reacted as anyone would react: neutralize the person threatening their lives. They have every right to defend themselves in a situation like this one, whether the person pointing the weapon at them is a hardened criminal or a lovely young mother.

They may not have known about her alleged cognitive issues, since you seem to be assuming that the officers she dealt with previously are the same officers involved in the shooting. She alleged that she was lead poisoned, though the article makes no mention of the veracity of that allegation. Also per the article, a medical professional who examined her determined that she had a "history of problems with anger and impulsive behavior." That may or may not be a result of lead poisoning, but it does not give her license to point a weapon at a human being and escape the consequences of doing so.

It's a tragedy that she's dead, because this isn't the outcome anyone wanted, and her son will be marked by this forever. But she made a choice to point a weapon at a person and threaten to kill that person, and it ended about as well as one might expect.

arithia

(455 posts)
25. You seem to have missed my point
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:33 AM
Aug 2016

That it never should have got to the point of "standoff" to begin with.

As for your assumptions about the officers (and what *my* assumptions are for that matter), police ARE capable of reading a police report. They are capable of reading a file on who they are bringing in. As the charges stemmed directly from her erratic behavior at the traffic stop, it is not unreasonable to assume that very behavior made it into the police report. After all, them acting on the warrant implies they have something for prosecutors to move forward with. You know, documentation. If they didn't read up on who they were bringing in and why, that's lazy frakin police work.

I find it strange that you would mention her diagnosis of "anger and impulse control problems" but would try to separate that diagnosis from the anger and impulse control problems she exhibited in the lead up to her death. You are in essence expecting someone with abnormal cognition to know how to control themselves... or even know that they are out of control to begin with.

Mental illness doesn't always work that way. If you don't have the right neural pathways, you can end up genuinely believing that lemon juice will make you invisible to human sight. Most of the population knows squat about mental illness or how it impacts behavior. Cops are no different, but should be.

I should also note that elsewhere in this thread is an example of white people (with arrest warrants) aiming guns at cops and threatening them during a standoff. Those people lived. This triple minority who openly vocalized (and acted on) fear for her safety around cops did not. Baltimore has a long history of police violence, inequality and endemic racism. If anyone thinks that atmosphere wouldn't impact people's behavior on both sides of the equation, I strongly suggest taking some sociology and psychology classes.

My guess is that it's easier to place sole blame on a dead woman than take a hard look at the multiple failures of society with regards to mental health care, social support systems, education, racism, poverty, gentrification and police training. Blaming her means we as a society don't have to do a damn thing to fix problems that we are collectively doing our best to ignore.

Sand Rat Expat

(290 posts)
37. I had an idea your response would be along these lines.
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:09 PM
Aug 2016

Police certainly are capable of reading a police report. However, knowing that she was erratic at a prior traffic stop is not necessarily going to provoke in them the idea that she may become violent and point a gun at them. "Erratic" does not by definition mean "violent." Many people with mental health issues are "erratic" but very few are violent.

Once again, you're reacting as if they kicked her door in and went in with guns blazing. That's not the case. They attempted to talk her down, right up until she pointed a weapon and threatened to use it.

Secondly, it all really becomes irrelevant the moment she points a weapon at them and threatens to kill them. Whether you are shot by a person with mental issues or a person with no mental issues, the bullets will injure or kill you just as much in either case. You're basically asking the police not to defend themselves in a situation wherein someone a) has the means to injure or kill them, and b) has expressed a willingness or desire to do so. Her probable mental issues, if anything, make her more liable to act impulsively and pull the trigger. If someone points a weapon at a cop, they should expect to get shot. Cops have every right to defend themselves.

And I had an idea you'd mention the survivalist nutters pointing guns at cops. If the cops had shot them, I'd have had no issue with it. Nor would, I suspect, many people here on DU, given that during those standoffs, there were multiple calls on multiple threads for the cops to go in there and clean house. Once again, if you point a weapon at a cop, you should expect to get shot. Given that there were multiple militia nutters involved, it's likely the reason the cops didn't open fire was because it would provoke an enormous bloodbath. However, had they done so, I very much doubt that very many people would deeply mourn the militia nutters. I don't recall outpourings of grief when LaVoy Finicum was killed by police officers.

And exactly who said I'm placing sole blame on this woman? You chastise me for my assumptions about your viewpoint, and then make assumptions about my viewpoint. Mental health care in the United States is atrocious. Education in inner cities is atrocious. Institutional racism and poverty are very real problems. Police training has many concerns that need to be addressed and corrected.

But none of those things are an excuse for pointing a weapon at a police officer and threatening to kill him. The officer is not going to think to himself, "Jeez, it's a real shame that the combination of socio-economic circumstances, plus her mental issues and the injustices she's suffered, have resulted in her being in a frame of mind where she's okay with pointing a gun at me and threatening to kill me. Well, I suppose I can let her shoot me. After all, who cares about my life, or my wife and kids?"

No, the cop is going to think, "Holy shit, she's pointing a gun at me and threatening to kill me, and she's just erratic enough to do it!" And the cop will react as any normal human being would react: in self-defense. The bottom line is that if this young lady had laid the weapon aside and surrendered, she would still be breathing at this moment.

She chose otherwise. I'm sorry that she made that choice, and I do not rejoice that she is dead, but neither am I going to ignore that she made a very real threat to kill another human being. That human being has every right to act in self-defense, whether he or she is a police officer or Joe Citizen.

EX500rider

(10,874 posts)
10. Were there arrest warrants issued for those individuals and did they actually shoot at the officers?
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 08:36 PM
Aug 2016

...as in this case?

IronLionZion

(45,545 posts)
12. Yes
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 08:42 PM
Aug 2016

Some of those bundy ranch dudes had outstanding warrants for arrest.

This article has white dudes and a white woman who shot at police and lived to do it again.

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/8-white-people-who-pointed-guns-police-officers-and-managed-not-get-killed

Some lives matter more than others

cstanleytech

(26,326 posts)
14. And did they take any shots at the cops? If they didnt then its not relevant in this instance since
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 10:06 PM
Aug 2016

according to the article she shot at them.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
19. It's a difference in strength.
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:33 PM
Aug 2016

300 armed antigovernment people showing up made the BLM suspend operations. They knew that if bullets started flying, a good chunk of them would have ended up dead.
If 300 people showed up to surround the cops and prevent them from doing anything, they would have backed down.
But one woman with a shotgun and a 5 year old kid? No chance. The cops are going to do whatever they want.
Strength is everything.

Igel

(35,362 posts)
26. No, no, no.
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:47 AM
Aug 2016

There's only ever one important part of the context. Firing the gun, aiming the gun, numbers on either side, risk to others, etc., etc., all boil down to a small concentration of a specific chemical found in a layer of tissue 1 mm thick.

We also ignore as part of the context blacks who hold weapons and point them and aren't killed. You don't use all the facts that are fit, you use all the facts that you want to fit. Love the American education system.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
36. Once upon a midnight dreary?
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:24 PM
Aug 2016

My French is rated barbaric, a product of the American Education system no doubt.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
38. If those idiots had opened fire on the Federal agents
Thu Aug 4, 2016, 06:58 PM
Aug 2016

at the Bundy ranch, the idiots would have been killed, either by the agents on the ground, or the inevitable FBI counterattack. Remember the Branch Davidians at Waco. Most of them were white. David Koresh was white. They ran over his ass with a tank. Because he shot at the feds.
It's not like anyone is going to duck down in the middle of the firefight and say "Hold up, guys. Those are white people." They are going to eliminate the threat.

If this lady had surrendered to the cops that were trying to serve a warrant, she'd be alive right now. But she shot at the cops. That's always going to end up with you dead.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
5. Because militarized police have declared war on Americans.
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 08:04 PM
Aug 2016

And their sycophantic badge licking supporters LOVE it.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
2. This is tough one - a slippery slope of blocking out police actions
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 07:58 PM
Aug 2016

The police learned their lesson from the Philandro Castile shooting - shut down social media so no one can see what is happening, and make sure the body cams are either not worn or not turned on.

Yet, on the other hand - if she had a history of unstable behavior and had a gun and a 5 yr old, no one would want to see that get ugly. And if the reports are true that she was encouraged not to comply (totally can see that happening), I can understand a practical view of how that can seriously endanger that child's life.

Obviously Facebook is a private company that has a right to deactivate someone's account for whatever reason - it is just the idea that this is probably going to keep on happening.

All in all - another waste of life, a child without a parent and more community distrust and division

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
31. Surely you jest.
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 01:57 PM
Aug 2016

This nut job of a woman pointed a gun at the police officers and then decided to shoot it out with them while her kid was there with her. This is more of a suicide than an murder.

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)
32. I don't believe the police narrative for one second
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 02:02 PM
Aug 2016

Cops are notorious for lying.

Besides, when it comes to black people the police are always ready to shoot us down in moments notice. Much more than they shoot white people under similar circumstances.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
33. That's your prerogative, I suppose.
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 02:13 PM
Aug 2016

I'm pretty sure the police got it right here, though, tragic as the situation may be. There's other evidence (including video) that convinces me she was nuts. I'm just glad the kid is going to be okay. Mother of the year she isn't.

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)
34. The police kill way more of us than necessary
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 02:17 PM
Aug 2016

I'm quite sure that there's more to this story than they're telling us. Seems all too convenient for them given the circumstances.

Midnight Writer

(21,815 posts)
21. Perhaps police could have backed off, then picked her up later after she left apartment?
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 12:42 AM
Aug 2016

Maybe even backing off, giving her a chance to cool down instead of pushing towards a violent confrontation.

Unless the police had info that the child was in danger, (and I admittedly only know the facts as presented in this brief story) what was the urgency?

Sand Rat Expat

(290 posts)
23. Per the article, they were negotiating with her when she aimed the shotgun at an officer.
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 02:31 AM
Aug 2016

And then she threatened to kill him if he/they didn't leave, at which time the officers opened fire. They'd been negotiating with her for five hours when this happened, so it's not a situation where they kicked down her door and charged in guns blazing.

 

NobodyHere

(2,810 posts)
24. Maybe they should've done that with the Orlando shooter as well
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 02:34 AM
Aug 2016

You know, just let him blow off some steam

/sarcasm

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
29. Your right to social media stops when you threaten police with a shotgun
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:44 AM
Aug 2016

She had no legal/moral/ethical justification for her actions. The police were fully justified in every action in this case that has been reported to date.

 

StraightRazor

(260 posts)
30. I think this is a person who should not have been allowed to purchase a weapon...
Wed Aug 3, 2016, 12:01 PM
Aug 2016

because of apparent emotional issues. But yeah, so far the police were justified based on what has come to light.

The social media aspect that people seem most upset about makes sense too - they needed her attention if they were going to try to come to some mutual agreement on a way to peacefully end the situation so they asked FB and Instagram to temporarily shut her down while they continued negotiation with her.

It's still early in the investigation and we'll learn more as time goes on.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
39. Thank you Judi
Sat Aug 6, 2016, 12:38 AM
Aug 2016

I know nothing about the source for this. Is chron an independent news organization out of Houston? Forgive my ignorance

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