Fresno police release body camera videos in Dylan Noble shooting

[B2G]

Source: The Fresno Bee

The Fresno Police Department released body camera video Wednesday showing Dylan Noble repeatedly ignoring officers’ demands that he stop moving back and forth at a gas station parking lot and show his hands before officers fired their weapons.

Police Chief Jerry Dyer said the investigation into the shooting is still underway, and he has not made a decision whether it was justified. But he said he wanted to release the video so the public could see a more complete picture of what officers faced as they confronted Noble and had to make decisions in mere seconds.

In releasing the video, Dyer appealed for calm from the community, saying tensions are high in the Valley and around the nation over police shootings, and one spark could ignite a proverbial forest fire.

“I am praying this video doesn’t serve as that spark in this community,” Dyer said.

Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article89431417.html#storylink=cpy


Read more: http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article89431417.html

[uawchild]

1. Wow, that's some video. Definitely should be viewed. Wow.

Dylan Noble's behavior just prior to being shot was certainly bizarre and incomprehensible.

Was he trying to get shot by reaching around towards his back pocket? He did that for quite a long period of time and also while moving towards the police, it wasn't as if the police were precipitous in shooting. Still surreal to see him shot like that though.

Very very strange behavior. Was it do to drugs or possibly a mental illness? I am at a loss to make sense of it.

[mike_c]

2. unarmed, not threatening, killed for non-compliance....

There wasn't anything about this traffic stop that justified the cops pulling their guns in the first place, let alone shooting anyone. The last two shots were an execution, plain and simple. Cops who are so fearful that they feel threatened by an unarmed, wounded teenager dying on the ground should not be allowed to carry weapons.

[uawchild]

3. Did you watch the video? Of course you did. I mean did you believe what you saw?

Forget the bit about an armed man in the area, that's the usual excuse.

But watch the video and see how bizarrely Noble was acting.
He's reaching behind his back while moving forward, and it wasn't a sudden move, he was reaching back for quite a while.

Was he trying to get shot? It's crazy.

"The last two shots were an execution, plain and simple"
Good lord that was surreal. Once a shot gets fired by the police it seems more shots ALWAYS follow.

Insane, all of it.

[mike_c]

5. it's not illegal to act "bizzarely..."

...and there was never any objective evidence that kid was armed. The cops came out of their cars with guns drawn, i.e. ready to kill before they knew anything at all about the circumstances. They shot him within seconds for not obeying the only command they were shouting, which had no rational context in a routine traffic stop. The kid did not do anything threatening at all, he just didn't comply fast enough. And those last two shots, when he was already incompacitated on the ground. Oh man.

[Evergreen Emerald]

38. It is actually illegal to disobey officers' commands

1. He did not pull over immediately
2. He did not show his right hand when asked (they feared he had a gun)
3. He exited the vehicle when told not to
4. He continued to put his hand behind him as if to pull out a gun from his back waist band, and refused to keep his hands where they could see him despite numerous commands to do so.
5. He walked towards the officer with his hand behind his back --ignoring the commands, and in what could be described in a threatening manner, especially considering the totality of his behavior from the time of the flashing lights.

As he lay on the ground, he again appeared to be reaching behind him when the officers asked him to keep his hands where they could see him

It is tragic. It was awful. His behavior was threatening to the officers.

[sarisataka]

4. Looks like

suicide by cop

[mike_c]

6. the cops seem all too willing to assist....

eom

[sarisataka]

8. He did everything but

wave a shoot me sign.

I watched all of the videos. After watching the first I felt the initial shots justified but not the last. After seeing all of them, I cannot fault the last shots either. From the different angles you can see that while he was on the ground he lifted his shirt and was still reaching under it. He wanted to make sure they killed him.

Was it a good ending, no. Could some things have been done differently, yes. It is always easy to second guess when you are sitting comfortably safe, watching the video with all the time in the world to consider options.

Were I on the review board, I would have one outstanding question before signing off that this was justified.
"Why did they not let the dog loose?"

[mike_c]

9. it's just as likely that he was reaching for his ID...

...and since he was unarmed altogether there was zero likelihood that he was reaching for a gun. He was pretty obviously confused.

Seriously, you think this was justified? He wasn't armed, so the cops had no objective evidence that he was a threat. Is it too much to ask that police confirm the real nature of imagined threats before they murder innocent citizens?

They shot him for noncompliance, period.

[B2G]

12. Just like Phil Castile was reaching for his wallet.

Bet he's all upset about that one.

[sarisataka]

14. If the "he" you are referring to

is me, have the intestinal fortitude to post a direct reply.

[B2G]

16. Consider yourself replied to. nt

[sarisataka]

18. I have watched

the video made by Castile's companion. Since it is local to me, I have visited the memorial and spoken to several people. IMO that shooting was not justified.

-Castile announced he was armed, legally so
-He did not exit the vehicle
-He was obeying the officer's instructions
-He was given no time to comply between the officer stating don't move you hands and the shots being fired.

All factors that are completely different in this situation. The actions of both sides determine if a shooting can be called justified. These two incidents are polar opposites.

As I stated, I still have a question why the dog was not utilized.

[B2G]

21. Did they even have one?

“Get your hands out where we can see them,” shouts the first officer’s partner.

“Both your hands,” the first officer says.

“Other hand. Right hand up. Right hand up,” his partner says.

“I think we have a dog with us,” the officer with the shotgun says.

“Subject keeps reaching for his waistband,” the first officer says into his radio.

“He’s getting out of the car,” the officer with the shotgun shouts.

Multiple officers frantically shout for Noble to get on the ground.

“We don’t have a dog?” the officer with the shotgun asks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/14/trigger-happy-or-well-trained-police-in-fresno-calif-release-video-of-dylan-noble-shooting/

[sarisataka]

22. I thought one said

"At least we have a dog" I may have been mistaken.

If they did and used it, the entire dynamic would have changed and the young man would be alive.

[mike_c]

25. what justification is there for using a dog?

So it's preferable to attack him with a dog for simple noncompliance with irrational orders? The kid wasn't doing anything illegal. It was a traffic stop. They shot him within seconds of arrival for simple noncompliance, without even the charade of criminal activity. It was an appallingly bad shoot. It would have been an equally appalling dog attack.

[sarisataka]

26. You seem to be under the impression

that complying with police instructions is optional. Next time you are pulled over and you are told irrational things like license and registration, simply tell the cop -fuck you- and drive away.

-He was pulled over
-he was told to show both hands
-he was told to stay in the vehicle
-he was told to not walk away
-he was told to stop and not approach
-he was repeatedly told to show both his hands during the above time

what were the irrational orders?
In a traffic stop you will usually sit in the vehicle and wait for the police to approach. Everything this young man did was irrational.

There was nothing unreasonable about assuming he was armed. At that range, he could have reached the officers even if he had a knife. He was told is he didn't comply they would shoot.

A dog could have been used to subdue him. His focus would be on the dog, allowing the officers to approach and apprehend him and likely would have exposed any weapon he may have had.

[mike_c]

27. none of his actions were illegal....

There is no law against putting your hand in your pocket. It is not a capital crime to approach a cop. Why are you trying so hard to justify what those cops did? Read your own words-- all he did was not comply with orders. It was a simple traffic stop. Perhaps he was impaired-- I don't know but I presume a toxicology report will be forthcoming. But even so, it's not a capital offense. Since when do we give cops the right to kill at their own discretion for simple noncompliance?

He had no weapons. He was not a threat. The very best face one can put on this is that the cops made a monumental misjudgement about the real threat he presented and killed him mistakenly. I think people entrusted with that sort of authority should be accountable when they blow it that badly.

"Everything this young man did was irrational."

But was anything he did illegal? What threat did he pose those cops? At best, they misjudged that threat and murdered a teenager.

[sarisataka]

28. All I can say is

I have been in shoot/no shoot situations and can appreciate the dynamics of such an encounter. I would have perceived a threat. Would I have fired, I honestly do not know. I do not have exact knowledge of what was on scene. Perhaps there was another resource I would have chose to utilize.

It is clear with your perfect after the fact knowledge you will never accept that there was a reasonable belief of threat. As I stated up thread, " It is always easy to second guess when you are sitting comfortably safe, watching the video with all the time in the world to consider options."

[Boxerfan]

29. Did you ever hear of a Taser??

I mean that would be a perfect use of non-lethal force-

Or pepper spray...But they murdered him. Probably not a rational human but that should not equate a death sentence.

[sarisataka]

13. He was unarmed

as they found out later. The only way they could have known "there was zero likelihood that he was reaching for a gun" was telepathy.

He could have been reaching for his ID. He could have stated that. He could have stopped walking towards the police. He was warned to stop several times, yet kept his hand out of sight, did not comply with any instructions and made no statement of what he was doing. He actions constituted a threat.

I do not believe police should have to wait to be shot before they open fire.

[mike_c]

20. and the only evidence they had that he was "a threat" was imaginary....

You're right--the cops didn't know for certain that he was unarmed until after they killed him. But they likewise had absolutely no evidence that he was armed. You are arguing that it's OK for police to kill people premptively because they don't know whether or not they're armed, and that it's reasonable for police to simply assume that noncompliance is an automatic death warrant.

Again, is it too much to ask that cops be responsible for determining the real nature of imaginary threats before they murder innocent citizens?

[sarisataka]

23. Since a gun can be presented

and fired simultaneously, do you think police should have the rule of engagement that they can fire only if fired upon?

[mike_c]

24. no, they should fire only when they have objective evidence that it's necessary self defense...

...or necessary to protect others. No one should ever be killed by police for simple noncompliance with irrational screamed commands. There simply was no evidence that this kid was a threat to anyone, including the cops who killed him for not obeying orders quickly enough. Yes, one can imagine otherwise-- "I can't see one of his hands so I imagine he might have a weapon in it"--but that defense only seems to ever apply to cops. What do you think would happen if you or I shot a teenager because we couldn't see one of his hands or because he didn't immediately drop to the ground on command? Cops should be held to higher standards, not lesser ones.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

47. Thank you.

Was it always like this? Maybe I watched too many cop shows in the 70s, but I thought cops in the old days got in trouble if they shot someone who turned out to be unarmed. That's why they carried throw down guns. Now they don't have to be bothered with a throw down. Now they just say they were scared.

Maybe this was suicide by cop. Maybe, just maybe, the first shots were justifiable - but the follow up shots were murder. His hand comes around from behind his back when he falls and there is OBVIOUSLY no gun in his hand. Now he's on his back writhing in pain and there is obviously nothing under his shirt. He was on his back facing the other way fuck's sake. What was he going to do? Shoot back over his head? Where they afraid he was a trick-shot expert?

One of the cops could have secured his hands while the other held the shotgun handy.

Theses cops need to make a reasonable effort to not fucking kill people over some minuscule risk.

And I just watched the video again. I was under the impression a high speed chase was involved. This was just a traffic stop. The fist shots weren't even justifiable.

[Boxerfan]

30. Taser or pepper spray?

Or just too defensive in this case to be rational?

[sarisataka]

32. Possible but each has flaws

pepper spray is very subject to the wind. I do not know how the wind was blowing or how strong but It could conceivably have blown across or back into the faces of the officers. The best range for a canister is about ten feet. They would have to allow him to get even closer, putting themselves at risk.

Tasers are also short range. Depending on what the officers carry, that may have been a potential option as he was in range of some of the better models. If they had lesser units, then they have the same problem as with pepper spray.

Less lethal weapons can be effective tools but they are not panacea.

[7962]

34. Oddly enough, a lot of people seem to think that

[mike_c]

7. he was reaching toward his back pocket....

Guess where most males carry their driver's license?

[Moonwalk]

10. Post deleted

[B2G]

11. Your question is ridiculous, give the photo of the deceased.

[Moonwalk]

15. I hope you will accept my apology for confusion and delete or edit your post....

I deleted mine. I posted it and realized I'd made a mistake, but, as usual, I got a response too quickly. And so hadn't time to delete it as intended. You don't need to remind me that I mixed up shootings. Sad that there are so many that one can lose track of which victim is being discussed....

[B2G]

17. What's sad is that so many here think that

white kids don't need a 'talk' too when it comes to interacting with the police.

It's not like he's the only unarmed white kid who's ever been killed.

[Igel]

31. I've said it before.

My driver's ed class when I was 15 had "the talk."

In Scouts, we got "the talk." Several times.

My high-school friends' parents gave *their* kids "the talk". My father gave *me* "the talk."

The only real difference from what I can see is we're not told to distrust the police or that the police are especially after us to hurt us, take advantage of us, etc.

Well, that's not true. I was told my bright red car would be a police magnet. And that long hair and the whole "heavy metal" look wouldn't put me in good stead with the cops. I got pulled over a few times. Once started to get out when pulled over for speeding and was told over the patrol car's loudspeaker to "stay in the car!" At court, "He appeared to be under the influence of drugs" was met with "I had a calculus test in 30 minutes and was memorizing integrals". And handed the judge the test and my schedule.

Nothing a hair cut and a tamer-looking car didn't cure.

[snooper2]

40. So what did your post say?

[Moonwalk]

42. As the person hasn't changed their reply, I think you can tell.

I had just come from one of the other discussions on recent shootings and was still thinking of that one.

[vkkv]

19. So many guns out there, the police are paranoid- Thank you NRA.. nt

[redixdoragon]

33. So I live in this city that's being talked about.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=141x39585

An older post about the police chief. You can't meet a police officer in this city without wondering if they're a skin head. Our neighboring town built right up alongside us, Clovis, has the highest KKK participation in its police force.

I was present while one pulled up to a bus stop I was waiting at, and harassed and too a homeless person's things and threw them out. I had to wonder if cops had hair anymore.

http://www.naturalnews.com/035626_police_brutality_Fresno_drowning.html Our police do this as well.

Ex-military needing someone to kill after their tours in the middle east? Racists with a chip on their shoulder? Or just people who joined a blue club, (Used to be blue now it looks more like paramilitary black), and in that club began to take to the ideology of it? The training seems to push them that direction.

http://www.letargets.com/content/le-33-pregnant-woman-gun-split-second-target.asp
Some of these were requested. Some have discontinued production after the bad press.

Someone take me out of this East Germany meets Deep South insanity.

[DLevine]

35. How can anyone justify those last shots, while he was on the ground?

If the cops couldn't subdue him- without killing him- at that point, maybe they shouldn't be cops.

[B2G]

36. That's the part I can't get past

Even if he HAD pulled out a gun, he was flat on his back and they were standing behind him. And obviously grievously injured.

[GummyBearz]

39. As shitty as this was I am neutral on the actions of the cops

They gave him a good 3 minutes worth of warnings, that guy was walking back and forth pretending to grab at something, and actually said "I hate my life" right as the first shot went off. It looked like he was suicidal.

I also give the cops credit here for not "accidentally" having the body cam turn off at the key moment, as well as releasing the recording in a timely manner. At least that is a start.

[Statistical]

41. and the two execution shots you neutral on those as well.

The first two shots 'could' be justified but then he is down on the ground, on his back, clutching a stomach wound, surrounded by four police officers all with guns pointed at him ...

at that moment there was no solution other than to put two more rounds into him?

[GummyBearz]

44. I think there were better solutions, but I wasn't there, and I don't know if anything would save him

at that point. Lets see what a DA thinks

[Statistical]

45. LOLZ. A DA? They are cops, they are "allowed" to execute unarmed people. n/t

[GummyBearz]

46. You got a better idea going forward for this case?

I know DAs often allow cops to get away with murder. What else do you propose happens? If you aren't on a flight to Fresno with plans to burn their house down then you are also just waiting for the DA to make a decision

[reddread]

48. yeah. what?

i had heard the kid was just pulling his pants up.
pretty sure they will settle the score in the multi millions.
everybody happy?

[Darb]

43. Not gonna watch it, bad for the soul. But if he didn't have a gun,

he didn't deserve to get shot. Period. Full stop.

A mistake that takes someone's life is manslaughter. The cops will never be convicted of it, but that is what happened if he did not have a gun.

[Little Tich]

49. Every time an unarmed man get shot by police, it's by definition wrong and should never have

happened.