CNN: Mohammed Morsi (Muslim Brotherhood) declared Egyptian Presidential winner

[hlthe2b]

Source: CNN

Cairo (CNN) -- Mohamed Morsi was declared the new president of Egypt on Sunday in an announcement that triggered massive cheers in Cairo's Tahrir Square.
Morsi, of the Muslim Brotherhood, beat out Ahmed Shafik, who served as the last prime minister under ousted President Hosni Mubarak. --snip--

The announcement came amid heightened concerns that Shafik would give new life to the old guard and essentially nullify democratic gains since last year's revolution ended Mubarak's 30 years of rule.--snip--

Morsi, an American-educated engineer, "represents the older, more conservative wing of the Brotherhood and openly endorses a strict Islamic vision," said Isobel Coleman of the Council on Foreign Relations. But in an interview with CNN, Morsi said, "There is no such thing called an Islamic democracy. There is democracy only. ... The people are the source of authority".




Tahrir Square erupts with approval. Not sure how to feel about this, myself.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/24/world/africa/egypt-politics/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Viva_La_Revolution]

1. 51 to 48

Breaking News

Muslim Brotherhood's Mohammad Mursi has won Egypt's presidential election with 51.73% of the vote. Ahmed Shafiq got 48.27%, the election commission says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18569761

[B2G]

8. I was afraid this would happen

Mubarak's gonna look really good to them a year from now. So sad.

[snooper2]

2. Go Fundies!

Too bad for the women of Egypt

Maybe it's time for them to get out while the getting is good...

[onehandle]

3. Bomb 'em. nt

[deminks]

4. CNN banner link

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/24/world/africa/egypt-politics/index.html?on.cnn=1

[nanabugg]

84. There may still be hope for Egypt. The military was unable to stop the vote nor could they cheat.

If the rank and file military would just align themselves with the people and let the top brass and Supreme Court get out of the country...the people might have a decent chance at a reasonable government.

[clang1]

109. The Egyptian Military could have done ANYTHING they wish

and they didn't...unable to stop them? They didn't want to stop them. That is why there were were elections. The military does not want civil war in Egypt. Simple.

[happyslug]

111. That is the problem with a Draftee Army, it takes a professional army to do a proper coup

Now, draftee armies have done coups, but either with the support of the people OR some some elite unit did the coup, while the regular draftee forces were kept out of the loop (Often kept in barracks with no access to weapons or Ammunition). Neither was possible in Egypt at the present time period.

The Egyptian Army leadership saw the people in the Square, saw that they had no support among the enlistee ranks, decided to accept the will of the people. I have suspicions that it was NOT as close as 51-48%, but after seeing the crowd gather to support the Moslem Brotherhood candidate, the Military gave in.

[maddezmom]

5. AP link

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Egypt-election-commission-Islamist-Mohammed-3658666.php

[unreadierLizard]

6. And the barbarianism continues.

Israel's one ally in the region is gone. Now the states who hate that country so are free to bomb it and set off WW3 as much as they want.

Muslim(brotherhood) - Anti-israel, anti-women, anti-progress.

[jwirr]

36. When bushie started the 2 wars they talked about how this was going to result in a lot of ME states

becoming democratic. What it has resulted in is the ME becoming more rightist in the Islamic sense. Israel is going to have a very hard time and that means we will to. The rw finally has their eternal war rather we like it or not.

I wish we had set the new Israel up in Nebraska. They would presumably have been safer.

[MADem]

88. Nebraska? What the hell was wrong with EAST GERMANY?

Would have made more sense, really. Those guys lit that shit off; they should have had to give up a little territory.

[jwirr]

105. He was thinking that Nebraska is in the center of the USA. Protected on all sides. However given the

hate we see today in the USA I wonder if any place would have been safe.

[MADem]

118. Well, we had--still have--plenty of forces stationed in Germany since WW2...

We could have placed a few of those bases in strategic fashion to give them a hand...

Of course, the challenge would have been to persuade the Russians to push over and make room.

[The Stranger]

135. There hasn't been any "barbarism" -- there has been an election, and that's what democracy is about.

I'm curious as to why you seem to favor the real barbarism -- the totalitarians like Mubarak.

But, then again, I guess Mubarak did Israel's bidding, right?

[MineralMan]

7. It was Morsi or a return to the old policies.

Did anyone think that they'd elect a secular President? I never did.

What happens over the next year or two will tell us more. It's not our country. They have to decide for themselves who runs it. What we think about who should run it is completely irrelevant.

[Windy]

9. very true but it is a setback for women in that country nt

[MineralMan]

12. You're probably right. It's still not something

we have any say in, though. When we attempt to influence politics in Muslim countries, we fail. Every time. They have to determine their own path, painful as that is to watch, sometimes.

[demosincebirth]

49. Sure it is, but we get what we vote for. Now, it'll be hell trying to vote those fundamentallist

out of office. Sharia law, here it comes.

[PostCapitalist]

69. Sharia is not that different than what the Fundies want to do here.

[clang1]

77. nope but their 'murikans n/t

[demosincebirth]

116. Oh, come on. Quite a bit of difference, I would say.

[MADem]

134. Under sharia law in Iran, homosexual teens are hanged in town squares from drott cranes.

So are young girls who were the victims of a perverted father or uncle or neighbor.

The cranes go from village to village, hanging people and serving as a warning to others. People are rousted out of their homes to attend the "festivities." It all has a "cautionary tale/let it be a lesson to you" flavor.

They're too busy to bother building and breaking down a scaffold. The crane is much more "efficient."

[DCBob]

10. Unfortunate it was choice between two bad choices.

Not sure how this is going to turn out.

[MineralMan]

13. Nobody is sure how it will turn out.

The US needs to stay hands-off on this and in most internal affairs in that region. When we meddle, we screw up.

[dipsydoodle]

11. Change is better

Only time will tell the effect of this outcome.

[MineralMan]

15. You're right. Time will tell how

this decision on the part of the Egyptian people will play out. It's nothing we can have any effect on.

[KakistocracyHater]

31. I guess Europe felt that way about the U.S. when W "won"

[MineralMan]

43. "Europe" doesn't feel anything. It's a continent.

I have no doubt that some people in Europe felt that way, though, yes. Other people in Europe probably felt differently.

[clang1]

50. Do you know anything about Europe?

Have you ever lived there?

[MineralMan]

53. No, I haven't lived in Europe.

However, it is still a place, and places don't feel things. It's a place full of people, each with his or her own set of beliefs and understandings. Some people in Europe believe one way about political things, while others feel differently. It's as foolish to think that the people in Europe are uniform in their beliefs or feelings about anything as it is to believe that about the United States.

I don't have to have lived in Europe to know that it is not a place full of people who believe the same things.

[clang1]

54. re: it is still a place, and places don't feel things. It's a place full of people

I find your view to be rather narrow. I can assure you the people of Europe were very concerned when GWB took the presidency. What you are saying is absurd.


Yes, I did not mean it like that. You are missing something that you cannot see and that is a European identity. There is nothing in GWB's world that is compatible to that.

[MineralMan]

56. How you find my views is of little concern to me, thanks.

Some people in Europe were very concerned when GWB became President, no doubt. Others were not. Same here in the US. There is no single opinion held by Europeans about anything, any more than there is here. Your concept of some sort of universal "European identity" is what's mistaken. There is no such thing. Europe is a very large place, made up of many countries, each with its own political conflicts and concepts. Trying to apply some uniform definition is a waste of time. Even if you look at Europe nation by nation, there is no unanimity within the individual nations in terms of what people's political beliefs are. You're trying to place some sort of model of "Europeans" in front of us. It is an inaccurate and flimsy model that will fall apart in the slightest breeze. From the neo-Nazis in Scandinavian countries to the pure Socialists in the same countries, you're trying to tell me that "Europeans" all share the same view of global issues. You are mistaken.

[clang1]

57. You have no idea n/t

[entanglement]

90. So true."Europe" is often used here as a stand-in for all that is good and worthy of emulation

Obviously, that requires a simplistic, one-dimensional and (usually) uncritical view of "Europe".
As you point out, there are numerous ultra-right, openly fascist factions in Europe, and they are by no means a negligible minority - they hold seats in parliaments across Europe. Their very "European" views would quite shock the average DU Europhile.

[clang1]

52. As regards reality, Your post is absurd so you know. n/t

[MineralMan]

55. Oh, OK. Thanks for letting me know.

So, you believe there is some sort of unanimity of opinion in all of Europe? Is that what you're telling me? Really?

[clang1]

58. What I was really commenting on was your narrow view of the OPs post

as well your wrong to say Europe was not concerned when GWB was whatever it was..in 2000, as to the remainder you state nothing new or even useful, I have said what I have to say. Anything further with you on it is a waste of time.
I can ASSURE you Europe was concerned. That's a FACT. I find it absurd to think otherwise. Further to your comments in your 2d post above: Do you know what the European Union is? What is that? Don't bother answering. I know what it is. I cannot understand if you are just quibbling over words, your belief, geography lessons, or what. Europe=EU=Pan-European=European indentity.

[MADem]

92. Europe isn't as Lefty-Peacenik as some Americans think.

Berlusconi made Rupert Murdoch look like Mother Teresa. He was a fucking fascist. There are a lot of racists in Europe, even in Socialist-for-now France. Google Marine le Pen; she has a helluva following.

Americans don't get down in the weeds when it comes to Europe, and when one doesn't do that, it's easy to miss the dogshit.

[clang1]

19. +1000 n/t

[clang1]

21. Many just still don't get it Dipsy.... n/t

[MADem]

91. No it isn't. If they step over the line, there's a lot we can do about it. Our opinion is not

at all "irrelevant." Do you have any idea how much cash we shovel at them every year? It makes our donations to Pakistan look like chump change. They aren't Saudi Arabia--in fact, the Saudis throw a lot of money at them, too.

And that's where it all gets nerve-racking.

Now's the time for the resident misogyny hunters on this board to start saying "Oh shit--now THIS is a problem for women."

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. Could mean a balance of power between him and the military

That's looking on the bright side. If you're pessimistic, it either degenerates into something approaching civil war, or they agree to victimise some group - eg women.

[riderinthestorm]

59. Yeah the civil war implications are concerning. Very worrisome for women, glbts, Copts

and other religious minorities.

[clang1]

62. It all a balancing act isn't it

How a Morsi-Shafiq Runoff Could be Good for Egypt
Bassem Sabry posted on Saturday, May 26, 2012

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2012/al-monitor/egypt-election-results-mean-star.html

"The Brotherhood is now faced with three options as well. First, it could stay on its current course and maintain an independent campaign, but that would most likely lead to Ahmed Shafiq’s victory. Second, it could move toward employing more conservative-sounding rhetoric in hopes of decisively gathering all conservative votes, but that would possibly mean encouraging more people to unite against them or in boycott, again potentially leading Shafiq to victory.

The third, and seemingly already-chosen option, would entail the Brotherhood returning to a more progressive and reconciliatory tone. They would have to align with revolutionary candidates and forces to gain their endorsement and a significant percentage of their voters. In return, they would have to agree with the revolutionaries on a more fair and more progressive approach to writing the constitution and to its content. They could possibly compromise on a more liberal vice president, prime minister or cabinet composition that is not entirely dominated by the Brothers. They would also need to agree to long-term goals on the future of Egyptian human and civil rights, as well as some consensual major headline policy directions for Egypt.

At the time of the writing of these words, the Muslim Brotherhood has already called for a meeting between the defeated candidates, especially Sabbahi (who appears to have decided not to attend), Moussa and Abul-Fotouh. But even if the Brotherhood fails to muster such an alliance, the lessons learned from the first round of the presidential election experience are still not expected to be forgotten, and the margin of potential victory for Mohamed Morsi remains likely limited.

Thus, regardless of whether or not the Muslim Brotherhood is successful in forging this alliance, it would either way find itself forced to adopt a more moderate tone and reconciliatory political approach throughout the remainder of the elections and afterwards. They would also need to shift to working again on a more long-term basis rather than their more recent leaps toward capturing power quickly. In other words, they need to run a political marathon rather than sprint. And if either situation happens and the Muslim Brotherhood responds with this turn towards the center of the spectrum, then Egypt as a whole and the revolution in particular would have won one crucial victory: the country's current most dominant political power transforming, at least for a significant and painfully urgent while, into a more moderate and reconciliatory force."

So now that Mursi has won, we will see.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

16. The military will be running the country.

He won't have much power.

[MineralMan]

17. You write truth.

The military will continue to make the big decisions, as they have done. Change is slow to come in that region, and often reverses itself. Morsi will have whatever power the military allows him, and no more.

[jwirr]

38. Let's hope.

[Posteritatis]

18. There's gonna be a whole lot of "Those People don't *deserve* democracy" around here for awhile.. nt

[harun]

112. I see very few advocates of Democracy lately

From the Right or Left.

[CrazyBob]

20. Egypt has chosen the lesser of two evils

Same as we do every four years. The real test will come when he begins to govern.

As for us: How will President Obama deal with this new development?

[clang1]

22. Exactly!! Just like we do over here, every damn election day ourselves.

The problems are not the people or religion even. It is the damn extremists that are the problem, whether they be political extremists or religious ones. People need to wake the hell up to this fact and quit freaking killing each other over it.

The Egyptian people have decided, NOW we either help them or not. SIMPLE


--And not a damn thing on the freaking television here either.

[MineralMan]

24. President Obama will handle it diplomatically.

That's his job. When leaders of other countries are elected, Presidents of The United States send congratulations and try to work with them. What other options does Obama have, really?

[CrazyBob]

70. He has a lot of options

Embrace, engage, ignore, subvert. Just to name a few.

[MADem]

93. The biggest option that he has is to close the American WALLET. We give them a fortune every year.

If Israel is the fifty first state, Egypt is the fifty second.

They get well over a billion bucks a year from us in MILITARY aid alone.

We are not without leverage. It's just one more frigging thing to deal with, though.

[Deep13]

23. Hurray, I guess. nt

[MineralMan]

25. A lot of people on DU were really excited about the

uprising in Egypt. Democracy was sure to ensue, they believed. What ensued was an election, in which a Muslim Brotherhood leader was elected to be the next President. Is that a good thing? It depends on your viewpoint, like everything does. For many people in Egypt, it's cause for celebration. For people in the United States, it's something that happened in a country about which most of us know very, very little.

The election is over. Now, we will get to find out what that means. We will know more over time.

Those DUers who are disappointed in this result are missing something here. That something is that this election happened in Egypt, not in Cleveland. Results depend on where the election is held, and may not turn out the way non-Egyptians wanted.

[clang1]

26. re: Those DUers who are disappointed in this result are missing something here

+1000

--Some people here, everyone really, should watch Obama's Cairo speech again. That is the winning vision to all this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/us/politics/04obama.text.html?pagewanted=all


DFL

[Deep13]

65. Well they didn't have much of a choice.

A theocratic candidate or another Mubarak. I wonder how this will work in a multi-confessional state, assuming the army let's him have any power at all.

[MineralMan]

66. There was a choice in the first election, who was a liberal.

He was eliminated, and the two remaining candidates ran in a runoff election. It appears that the majority who voted picked the Brotherhood candidate. It's the Egyptians' election, not ours, so they're the ones making the choice. I can't see how we can second-guess the people there, even if we disagree with their choice. Interfering in the affairs of countries in that region hasn't been a good choice by the US.

[Deep13]

104. Disagreeing intellectually and interfering are not the same thing.

And we can have an opinion based on the evidence, just like anything else. Some Europeans were not shy about urging us to dump Bush in 2004, and would that more of us had listened. (By "us," I mean the USA. I sure didn't vote for Bush.)

[SnakeEyes]

27. Shame really

I believe this is the bookend to Bush's spread democracy in the Moddle East plan.

We supported the Arab Spring but there was no way we could have known this is how it would end up. Nobody saw this coming.

[clang1]

28. Illogical

I don't see it as a bookend. The Arab spring was not because of Bush.

[bhikkhu]

60. "no way we could have known"...

Someone might have guessed that democracy in a Muslim country would lead to the election of Muslims.

In the same way, we seem to have plenty of Christians running things here. Some are nutjobs, most have to sound a bit like nutjobs to get on the ticket to begin with, but mostly leave their religion at the door once they get in. It seems to be a part of the sense of trust and community we like to feel with the guys we elect, though it doesn't usually make much difference in the end. Hopefully things will work out as well for the people in Egypt.

[riderinthestorm]

61. Actually more than a few DUers saw this coming.

Trying to get most DUers to examine who were/are the main players in the opposition movements however has been/continues to be close to impossible. But please know that there were some people here who have posted during every "revolution" that it would be wise to understand who was being backed and why - that applies to all of the Arab Spring "revolutions" that have been analyzed to death here on DU (from Libya to Tunisia, Bahrain to Syria, and back round again...).

[CrazyBob]

71. Totally agree -nt

[NickB79]

63. "Nobody saw this coming." Speak for yourself

This was visible a mile away for anyone paying attention.

[KakistocracyHater]

29. so are they going to destroy Ancient Egyptian artifacts?

are they THAT kind of Muslim? Or are they not that craaazy? because the loss of those would be horrible

[clang1]

30. Like in Iraq and in Afganistan?

Probably not. Sort of stupid IMO to compare Egypt to Afghanistan like this.

[Posteritatis]

33. Yeah. Pretty telling look into attitudes though, isn't it? Ugh. (nt)

[clang1]

34. People are their own worse enemies sometimes

We live in a dynamic that encourages that here in America. Just right now, an event of global importance happened in Egypt...people around the world are probably watching at home on their televisions, and there is NOTHING on television here about it. Instead talk of that F&F bullshit (at least they (Wallace) got Issa to admit the WH has nothing to do with F&F). But F&F means shit at the end of the day expect for being the political crap that it is along with something that should have NEVER happened to begin with. Meanwhile in Egypt the world is changing again and hopefully for some good.

[clang1]

46. Further along this dynamic

Last edited Sun Jun 24, 2012, 03:02 PM - Edit history (2)

Not only do too many Americans not think for themselves, when they do think, they allow others to frame what they think. The outcomes of this will ALWAYS be the predetermined ones.

[clang1]

37. You know now that I sit here and think about it

That comment is an insult to the Egyptian people. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Posteritatis]

40. It definitely is. (nt)

[Posteritatis]

32. Oddly enough there's a whole continuum of Muslims, of which the Taliban are just one extreme. (nt)

[MineralMan]

45. Why would they do that?

Tourism is very important in Egypt's economy. Why would they screw that up?

[MADem]

94. The pharonic culture has historically colored the lives of ALL Egyptians.

It didn't matter if you were Muslim, Copt, or even the odd Jew, all Egyptians had that Pharonic heritage that allowed them to say "We're BETTER than the rest of those Arabs--we are DIFFERENT. We are ROYAL--we built things way back when, we created stuff, we own one of the cornerstones of civilization in the entire world--we have an ancient culture and society--we're not a bunch of camel jockeys wandering the desert and living in shitty tents like those damn Saudis."

They don't say these sorts of things too loudly or too obviously, of course, because those "damn Saudis" give them a ton of money. But they THINK it--they think they are smarter, more urbane, classier, of "better stock." After all, they come from Pharaohs--those Saudis and other tribal schmucks in the other states that were created by a couple of Europeans with a pencil and a few wise ass ideas were just bums who wandered around their respective sand pit.

This election, though, puts the "Muslim" in front of the "Pharonic." And the Copts and those odd, rare Egyptian Jews (who I said are probably packing and I am not joking) take the back of the bus. The women will have to push over, because they are at the back of the bus, too--don't know if they'll take that quietly; of course, I never thought Iraqi women would put up with the shit they're dealing with every day.

[4th law of robotics]

35. Might be wise for any Egyptian women who have the means to do so

to leave ASAP.

Things likely won't be getting better for you.

[CrazyBob]

72. Total overreaction - nt

[clang1]

75. Many of the people here care little for Egypt n/t

[MADem]

95. Yeah? That's what people said about Iran in 79. nt

[4th law of robotics]

107. Probably best to just assume that the religious fundamentalists taking charge will be a *good*

thing for women.

That's usually a safe bet.

/Did you know in the 1920s Afghanistan banned the burka and opened up schools for girls? And then the islamists took over and things got . . . even better for women! Yeah, anyone who says otherwise is overreacting.

[JDPriestly]

39. The Mubarak government had years in which to make the transition

to democracy. It squandered them on amassing personal wealth for the Mubarak family.

As we see in the US, educating people to use their democratic power wisely takes a lot of care and attention.

Who knows? Years of extreme Islamic rule may result in a dramatic turn in a more humanistic direction.

But this is a troubling development because it seems that religious extremism is increasing in many parts of the world. The Vatican is rigidly imposing old, sometimes sexist, ideas on its congregations. The Evangelicals are still on the rise in the US with Pat Robertson leading the ignorant part of the pack.

I just hope the rise of extremism does not result in clashes that cause a lot of serious problems.

Women in Egypt -- I am sorry for you.

[clang1]

47. So just who are you blaming here?

Mubarak is gone. Why do you feel sorry for the women? They have their chance now as much as anyone in Egypt does.

[JDPriestly]

106. We shall see what chance women have.

A New York Times stated that Morse does not think a woman should be able to be president. That suggests a negative view of women's rights. As a woman, I disagree with that point of view.

[Psephos]

130. Perhaps you should consult with Aliaa Magda Elmahdy. n/t

[bluestateguy]

41. The neo-cons say they want democracy and elections

And if they really mean that, they have to accept that sometimes fundamentalist wackos will win.

[clang1]

51. Wrong re: The neo-cons say they want democracy and elections

We have already seen how the Neocons feel. They were ejected from Egypt too. You need to check some other threads around here. And the Military could have kept those people in Egypt, and they didn't.

[CrazyBob]

73. Totally agree

I wonder what the freepers are saying about all this.

[clang1]

80. Neocons’ Tepid Reaction to the Egyptian Democratic Revolution

They didn't want elections there in Egypt until they felt they were going to be forced down their throats anyway. I call bullshit myself that the Neocons wanted regime change and elections there in Egypt, puhleeze. Man..just some of the absurdity here.


Friday, February 04, 2011
http://batrneoconwatch.blogspot.com/2011/02/neocons-tepid-reaction-to-egyptian.html
Neocons’ Tepid Reaction to the Egyptian Democratic Revolution

The uprisings currently taking place against the autocratic regimes in the Middle East would seem to be in line with the neoconservatives’ advocacy of radical democratic change in the region. But there is one significant difference. The neocons had sought to use democratic revolutions to overthrow the enemies of Israel, even applying it, much less successfully, to countries such as Saudi Arabia, which were client states of the United States; but now democratic revolution is engulfing the Mubarak regime in Egypt, which maintained friendly relations with Israel. As Israeli writer Aluf Benn points out in Ha’aretz, “[t]he fading power of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's government leaves Israel in a state of strategic distress. Without Mubarak, Israel is left with almost no friends in the Middle East.” [“Without Egypt, Israel will be left with no friends in Mideast,” January 29, 2010, ] In a situation where Israeli interests would be harmed by democratic revolution, the neocons’ ardor for this development has cooled dramatically.
Daniel Luban on Lobelog points out that in the first days of the Egyptian revolution the neocons were largely silent on this development and those who commented tended to express some skepticism as to its likelihood to bring about positive results. He quotes The Weekly Standard’s Lee Smith cautioning U.S. activists not to become too fond of the Egyptian demonstrators: “It is not always a good thing when people go to the streets; indeed the history of revolutionary action shows that people go to the streets to shed blood more often than they do to demand democratic reforms.” Luban predicts that “f the protests are ultimately unsuccessful, the neocons will attack Obama for letting the protesters twist in the wind; if the protests are ultimately successful, they will claim the events in Egypt as vindication for the Bush democracy promotion agenda.”
Posted by SARTRE at 7:05 AM

Neocons have abandoned Mubarak. Why?
http://mondoweiss.net/2011/02/neocons-have-abandoned-mubarak-why.html

[solarman350]

42. The Calm Before the Storm

Last edited Mon Jun 25, 2012, 06:10 AM - Edit history (5)

This is akin to the Russians going back to re-electing KGB types to lead them or Hamas ruling the Palestinians.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
--George Santayana


Online Learning (for the Muslim Brotherhood-information challenged here on DU):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

http://archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares

"Cliff Notes" on the Muslim Brotherhood:
The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 by Hassan al-Banna, an Egyptian seeking to overthrow Egypt's monarchy, expel western influences and establish an Islamic theocracy. Since its founding, the Muslim Brotherhood, a Sunni Islamic movement, has pursued these goals through political activity, ideological influence and acts of violence. The group became known for its extensive terrorist operations, including the failed assassination attempt of Egyptian leader Gamal Abdul Nasser. Its activities led to violent crackdowns by the governments of Egypt and Syria; it is banned in those countries.

While forced to limit its violent activity, the Muslim Brotherhood continues to have a large following throughout the Muslim world, where many of its supporters are politically active. The group has influenced many terrorist leaders - including Osama Bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahiri - and many of its members have engaged in terrorist activities.

Focus of Operations -
Headquartered in Egypt; satellite groups throughout the Muslim world

Major Attacks -


* The Muslim Brotherhood no longer openly conducts terrorist operations; it is primarily a political organization that supports terrorism and terrorist causes. Many of its members, however, have engaged in terrorist activities and the group has spawned numerous terrorist groups, such as Hamas and Egyptian Islamic Jihad.

* 2002: Suspected in suicide bombing in Grozny.

* 1979: Suspected in attacking Syrian military academy in Aleppo. 50 Syrian artillery cadets killed


Leaders -
Leader: Muhammad Mahdi Akef (in Egypt)
Founder: Hassan al-Banna (assassinated, February 12, 1949)
Ideological influence: Sayyid Qutb (executed by Egypt, August 29, 1966)
IdeologyThe Muslim Brotherhood's theology is based on the doctrine of salafiyya: the belief that present-day Muslims have been corrupted and must return to the pristine form of Islam practiced at the time of the Prophet Muhammad. Many Muslim Brotherhood members believe in a radical application of Jihad, which was developed by their ideological leader Sayyid Qutb. Qutb advocated a violent and belligerent approach to the concept of Jihad. This ideology was adopted by terrorist organizations such as al-Qaeda, and Hamas. The group motto is: "Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Koran is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope." The Muslim Brotherhood aspires to establish a caliphate unifying all the Muslim nations.

Goals -
Establishing theocracy in Egypt, the Middle East, ultimately worldwide.

Methods -
Preaching, political agitation and advocating terrorism. The brotherhood participates in elections and attempts to gain influence through the political process. Although it is banned in Egypt, members of the brotherhood have been elected to the legislature there and in Jordan. It also promotes violence against the U.S. and Israel.

Sponsors -
Although banned by various governments, the Muslim Brotherhood presence is generally tolerated amongst Middle Eastern countries.



--For Egypt now, it's back to the past (circa Middle Ages) by going "Back to the Future"

[clang1]

48. Pfffft Give me a break

So what is your answer then?

[CrazyBob]

74. What?

Its totally the opposite. What news source are you reading?

[Auntie Bush]

44. It was reported onMSNBC that Morsi said he might drop out of

the Muslim Brotherhood. Upps, got interrupted and didn't get to send this and now women may not be as prosecuted as they are now and may even gain some rights. He said he wouldn't rule by Islamic rule...he'd rule as in a Democracy! We'll see. Seeing is believing.

[MADem]

97. Don't get your hopes too far up.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/24/world/meast/egypt-morsi-profile/index.html


(CNN) -- The first leader in Egypt's history to win a democratic election is a study in contrasts: a strict Islamist educated in southern California, who vowed to stand for women's rights yet argued for banning them from the presidency.

...During the historic campaign for president, Morsi said he would support democracy, women's rights and peaceful relations with Israel if he won.
But has also argued called Israeli leaders "vampires" and "killers." One analyst describes him as an "icon" of those seeking an "extreme agenda."

...But he "represents the older, more conservative wing of the Brotherhood and openly endorses a strict Islamic vision," Isobel Coleman of the Council on Foreign Relations wrote in a column for CNN.com.



We give Egypt 1.3 billion bucks in military aid a year. He might want to say things that will mollify us, but that doesn't mean he'll follow through.

[David__77]

98. The "secular" Mubarak state banned women from the presidency.

It's not as if this is a step backwards for Egypt; rather, change would be a step forward.

[MADem]

101. Who here is making the argument that the dictatorship of Mubarak was "better?"

The de facto truth of the Mubarak regime was that only ONE person could be in charge, and his name was Muhamad Hosni Mubarak. And it's not like he was doing anything any different from Sadat or Nasser--they were dictators, after all, despite all the pleasant titles and fluffy suggestions of participatory government.

[crimson77]

64. Well that was predictable, I'm sure the Coptic Christians are thrilled.

[Bad_Ronald]

67. I feel very deeply for the Copts.

A co-worker of mine, whom I'm quite fond of, is an Egyptian Coptic Christian. He has told me dozens of horror stories about what he had witnessed firsthand growing up in Egypt....everything from periodic church burnings, the rape of their woman, to the stifling discrimination they face in their daily lives in virtually all aspects of public life.

I really wish people in the West would take their plight closer to heart. Unfortunately for the Copts, they have not achieved "pet group" status amongst any of the more powerful progressive organizations in the West that usually advocate for the downtrodden & discriminated against in the developing world.

[clang1]

68. Perhaps this will be the time for positive change for them as well n/t

[crimson77]

81. I grab dinner on my way home from this pizza place, the owner and his wife are from Alexandria.

Over the last year or so, this once vibrant guy is so sad and morbid( should say they are Coptic), The wife who is my age( absolutley beautiful) has began to show the wear. They are constantly getting calls from home where all their family is. They tell me all these horrible things, like elderly women being harrased and sworn at, amongst other things.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

76. All of you need to realize how this happened.

The election was between two guys, one a continuation of the old regime and the Muslim Brotherhood who hid who they were during the original election, then the youth vote that was what drove the uprising was split amongst 50 different candidates, none of which got enough votes to even make it on the ballot in the general election. You take 35% conservative and 65% Liberal but you split that Liberal vote 50 ways so this guy gets 3%, this guy gets 2%, this guy gets 1%, this guy gets 7%....

See how this works?

In the end the young people were actually crying to see they were going to have a choice between two assholes.

It's NOT what they wanted.

In the end, the Muslim Brotherhood guy came off during the final campaign as a reasonable guy who would support women's rights and keep the peace with Israel.

Egypt will toss his ass out if he decides to pull anything and in the mean time the young people will have time to find a single person they can rally around.

[clang1]

79. +1 on breaking it down

There is another post somewhere with the results as of yesterday or so. Would be interesting to see how the final counts are broken out.

[oberliner]

82. Unfortunately the information presented is entirely inaccurate

The reality is as follows:

In the first round, a total of five candidates received over 90 percent of the vote.

Morsi and Shafik, the two who would eventually have the runoff, had a little under 50 percent between them.

In third place was Sabahi, who could be identified as the "liberal" candidate. He got about 20 percent of the vote.

In fourth was another Islamist who was formerly head of the Muslim Brotherhood. He got a little under 20 percent.

In fifth was Amr Moussa who was Mubarak's Foreign Minister and later the Secretary General of the Arab League. He got a little over 10 percent.

What the poster above does not realize is the extent to which the population of Egypt leans towards religious fundamentalism and away from secularism.

The Muslim Brotherhood candidate did not win because he pretended to be something he wasn't or because there was some large group of liberals who were split between dozens of candidates.

The Muslim Brotherhood candidate won because the Muslim Brotherhood is most reflective of the Egyptian population at large.

[clang1]

83. He just did it highlevel is how I interpreted it (thought it was rough reading that post)

I already posted another message with the tally as of yesterday. Though yes.... Please post a link to the numbers you quote (I can't find anything yet). Thank you.

[oberliner]

85. The first round results?

Here is an Egyptian news site with those numbers:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/36/122/43126/Presidential-elections-/Presidential-elections-news/BREAKING-Mursi,-Shafiq-officially-in-Egypts-presid.aspx

[clang1]

86. Thanks much

Last edited Sun Jun 24, 2012, 10:55 PM - Edit history (1)

These were similar to the numbers I posted yesterday. No, I was hoping for a final tally.

Posting these here to show breakdown

The SPEC also announced the final overall vote count of the top five candidates from all 27 governorates, as follows:
1.Mohamed Mursi ( 5,764,952 votes)
2.Ahmed Shafiq (5,505,327 votes)
3.Hamdeen Sabbahi (4,820,273 votes)
4.Abdel-Moneim Abul-Fotouh (4,065,239 votes)
5.Amr Moussa (2,588,850 votes)

Total valid ballots were 23, 265,516; 406,720 ballots were found invalid. Turnout was 46.42 per cent of registered voters.

Not sure tally between Mursi and Shafiq

[AJTheMan]

78. Whether you were a Shafik supporter or Morsi supporter, in the end, the real winner is the military.

On the night of the election, the military stripped all the powers away from the President. The head of the military declared himself to be the one who writes the constitution. The freely elected parliament was dissolved by a pro-military court. I applaud the fact that this was indeed a fair and free election but Morsi can only do so much. Most of his powers have been stripped by the military. Since the military has the final say in how the constitution is written, who is to say that the Constitution will give the President any powers at all? It very possibly could be a pro-military sham constitution, just like the one we have in Burma. In Burma, elections have been held many times and yet everyone recognizes who is really in power -- the military.

See, at one time, this was a free Democracy. For a very short period, we had the fact that the constitution would be written by the legislature with advice from the soon to be elected President. Now that the ball is in the military's court, who knows how they will write it? The military has already set up a national police force with very liberal policies in detaining anyone they see fit. I worry about the authenticity of this Egyptian Democracy because now we have a power hungry military with all the power and they do not worry about human rights.

Look, it's great that Morsi was elected but as of now, he is only a symbolic head of state, not unlike Queen Elizabeth is symbolically the leader of the United Kingdom. Tantawi is pulling the strings of the government.

[MADem]

87. I'm guessing the few Jews in Cairo are packing.

The Coptics are probably thinking about selling off some of their stuff, too and thinking about an exit strategy, just in case.

I think that the Pharonic culture isn't enough to hold Egyptians together. When you base your government not just on "God of Abraham/Ibrahim" precepts, but on sharia law, you're excluding people.

Oh well--it was a Hobson's choice. Sucky Guy Over Here, or Sucky Guy Over There? It was a close election--the Muslim Brotherhood crowd took over the square, but there were protests and gnashing of teeth elsewhere in Cairo and other locales.

[MADem]

96. If you do not understand the history and culture, you do not understand the people.

Your dismissive snark tells on you.

Do some reading. Learn something. Wow, indeed.

http://www.odsg.org/Said_Edward(1977)_Orientalism.pdf

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/?view=usa&ci=9780195002676

http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item1147553/?site_locale=en_GB

[clang1]

99. Lol sure all that is relevant

Uh Yes, I do know that..

Though.... deleting post. Fair enough and worthwhile. I would just suggest you read more modern and relevant history.

[MADem]

100. It is as relevant as the work of our founding fathers is to our national character.

I have read "more modern"--but not necessarily MORE relevant--history as well.

I lived in that part of the world for many years.

[clang1]

102. Fair enough

That's pretty cool... btw My apology as well on this one. I just didn't put it in the other post.

[MADem]

103. No problem! nt

[revolution breeze]

120. My friend's daughter is studying abroad in Cairo

My friend said daughter had called because her advisor had called her in and told her she may want to leave the country. She is Muslim, but he said things might become unstable and, being an American, she may run into trouble down the road.

[MADem]

124. I'd send a shipment home if I were her...

All those trinkets and gee-gaws that were bought in happier times, stuff that has meaning and memory.

I'd live out of a suitcase and a backpack, and be ready to move at a moment's notice. I'd make sure I knew exactly where the embassy is, and have an address memorized near enough to the embassy (maybe near a side door) so if you have to haul ass in a real sketchy scenario, you can give an address to a taxi driver OTHER than "American Embassy." I'd also have an open ticket purchased on a good airline that is unlikely to stop going in and out of the airport. It is important to not be fussy when you have to leave--you just find the first flight out and get on it...you can connect for home in Paris, Rome, Madrid, Dubai, where ever. It's also good to have an understanding of the countries that don't demand a visa for transiting. Makes it easier to just get the hell out.

If people don't know what she is (specifically American) and she wears some form of hijab, even the "casual" sort of "Modern Muslim Woman" type of hijab, AND her clothing is locally purchased, she might be OK. If she stands out as The American and can't fade back, she might want to re-evaluate her learning experience.

I always used to be able to tell who's who by their shoes, even when they were trying to "blend." The North Americans wore sneakers aka "running shoes" way before anyone else did. Now the locals are more likely to wear them (though not all by any stretch--remember the reporter who tossed his shoe at Dubya?), but if you look closely you will see they are often loosely laced so as to be easy to slip off without having to untie them. Also, the brand names are often "off," or counterfeit and the logos look squirrelly. North Americans and Europeans will tightly lace their non-counterfeit shoes especially if they're new in-country. They also won't wear jeans/dungarees with brand names we've never heard of and those are very commonly counterfeited as well even when they do have the brand name on them.

[clang1]

128. Very good advice

I have peeps over there that when the Arab Spring began, they were not sure what to do, leave or stay. They stayed, other family they have there could not have left anyway. All is well as it could be given the situation, they knew it back then. Hopefully things continue along this track. I try to stay postive.

[revolution breeze]

129. I copied your post and forwarded it to my friend.

She thinks her daughter is jinxed. She went to Dubai with her "boyfriend" three years ago (they had been dating for two years while he went to school in Seattle). After putting her up in an apartment, he left her a note saying he had crossed the border into Saudi Arabia to see his wife and children. When he did not return in a week, she contacted the embassy there and they quickly got her home. Poor thing is enchanted by the Middle East (and Middle Eastern men) but trouble seems to find her there.

[MADem]

132. Oh dear. She's lucky to not be on the doggone No Fly list.

I was stopped/frisked every time I flew from 9/11 until Bush left office. Then, magically, I was treated like royalty. Funny how that shit works.

Did she know the "boyfriend" had the wife and kids in Saudi when she went dancing off with the guy? And why even wait a week? Ay-ay-ay! Her poor mother must be worried sick.

I'm assuming she speaks some Arabic. I don't mean to be unkind, but she's in a precarious situation if she's entranced with Middle Eastern men, particularly if she's not in a situation where she is chaperoned from their ...errr...advances. It's one thing if she's living with an auntie and uncle, and is introduced to "suitable" fellows in appropriate settings. If she's just getting out and mingling, though, her actions are likely to be VERY much misinterpreted. These fellows can't be counted upon to behave in a chivalrous fashion, to put it kindly, particularly with women from other cultures, who they unfairly label as "loose" and thus not worthy of respect. Good to sleep with, but never to marry, is the attitude.

There exists, in SA and some of the more conservative sheikdoms, a rather perverse notion that women are sex fiends who cannot control themselves, and this is why they "must" be forced to wear veils, hidden away from society, escorted by males who will "keep an eye on them" so they don't lose control of their dignity. Egypt isn't like this, but there's an element of that "attitude," if you know what I mean. Iraq has it too. Iran was shedding it under the Shah, but once they tossed him, they were back on that train.

Don't worry her poor mother with this shit, but perhaps the young lady can be encouraged to plan ahead and be prepared to turn on a dime if things get shaky. I hope she's got trustworthy friends over there--this isn't a good time to be a little lost lamb--the wolves are out!

[revolution breeze]

138. I almost wish she were on the no-fly list.

It would save her mom alot of grief. She claimed she did not know the guy had a family (except for rich daddy who was in the hotel industry). Kate was modeling in a show at one of dad's hotels when she met Jr. He was immediately drawn to her and was so happy that she was studying Arabic. When she converted to the Muslim faith, he was over the top happy and they began traveling together. He bought her clothes, jewelry, took her to Singapore and Brazil. In her mind, she thought the trip to Dubai was a marriage proposal. Even when she returned to the US she thought he would come back for her. She is asked out on dates frequently, but turns them all down unless they are Middle Eastern. I am afraid she watched Alladin one too many times.

I think her current advisor really has her best interest. He has been working with students from Seattle for many years and has a great reputation in the teaching community there. I think he is very trustworthy and will look out for her.

[MADem]

139. Her mother has my deepest sympathies. You just can't tell 'em when they Know It All.

All you can do is worry. I would be very concerned--that sounds like a Babe in the Woods scenario, unless she is in a dorm and has a fairly early curfew and a requirement that she not go out alone!

That poor dear child's life to this point sounds like the first twenty minutes of one of those dire LIFETIME movies one sees on TV!!

It's unfortunate that she apparently has the language down, has adopted the faith, but has yet to understand the conservative end of the culture. What she needs is a WOMAN from the conservative side to sit her down and explain the realities to her. The men do not feel that they owe "explanations" to women. They are very -- well, sexist is too mild a word. They are bigoted. That joke that the women come after the camels and sheep isn't really a joke, though it isn't terribly funny.

Despite the "four wives" stuff you hear so often, this is more commonly a province of the wealthy, because if you take a wife, you have to support her. Also, divorce is as easy to get as a chocolate bar. Additionally, these marriages are very often arranged, because the attitude is that the family does not want the bloodline "diluted" by an unsavory family, they want to keep the money in the family (which results in a lot of cousin alliances), and they sure as hell aren't going to trust an infidel, even one that has converted.

Further, there are accomodations for "temporary marrigages" (certainly avoids the stink of prostitution, but in essence this is payment made for value received in a short-term relationship...rather like renting a car. There is no "equivalent" for women, though--it's a male-driven transaction). Most importantly, if the guy is going to sleep with the young lady, he's NOT going to marry her. She's "for fun" not for the family.

And what of the hapless wife sitting in Saudi Arabia? She's resigned to her life as it is, even if she knew that her husband was fooling around. If her husband is a very good provider she has status amongst her friends and they will envy her, no matter how many liaisons the husband has. The attitude is "So long as he comes home, free of disease, and the money to run the household continues to roll in, I really could give a crap, " pretty much. Even if there is a 2nd or 3rd wife in the picture, often the attitude is "Good--let her put up with him," (the "attentive husband" paradigm isn't a feature of the society, to be blunt--the women do all the heavy lifting in terms of care and feeding of a great big adult baby, essentially, sometimes his Very Critical mother who will rat out the wife if she believes she's doing something that will cause disgrace to the family name, all of the children, and the household management, even while being constrained from decision-making) and the junior spouses can have "fun" (NB--ironic quotes for the irony-impaired who might be reading this conversation) taking care of the laundry, cooking his dinner and what-not. Despite Osama's living arrangements, very often multiple wives do not live together--it's more like Big Love (with more distance between the houses) than Osama's Pakistani Hideaway.

Egyptian men are much more modern, many of them, as are many Turks and urban Iranians and Iraqis (the young ones, anyway). There are other nations, too, that have large Muslim populations who don't play this kind of bullshit game, as well. However, this "worst case" conservative paradigm does exist, and it's not entirely "rare." It pops up at the oddest times, and in the oddest places, too-- even amongst supposedly "modern" and "liberated" men (when they don't get their way, for example).

If she's LUCKY, she'll meet a young, single man who is orphaned, smart, likes modern life and all things American/Western, who is able to make it on his own, who is being looked after by a dutiful, if financially strapped, uncle who has a half dozen sons already. Then they can marry and her new spouse can convince her to return to USA and live happily ever after in a Muslim community!

It would be terribly ironic if she met a Coptic of her dreams over in Egypt, after bothering to convert. That would be a bit problematic.

[KamaAina]

108. And the Arab Spring gives way to a harsh theocratic winter

[Robb]

110. He still has to govern a diverse population

...one now accustomed to getting some measure of power at the ballot box an in the streets.

I'm hopeful on all this; as I've said before, a MB government governing moderately is a win for everyone.

[harun]

113. So many open Islamophobes on DU, give them a chance.

[KamaAina]

114. You don't have to be an Islamophobe to fear something called the "Muslim Brotherhood"

How would you feel if the U.S. had a "Christian Brotherhood" and it elected a president?

[harun]

119. Last President was a member of "Skull and Bones", didn't scare me a bit.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

136. It should have

... scared you, that is.

Two wars and a depression. Scary stuff.

To be fair to W, he probably didn't cause that stuff, just got outsmarted and outplayed by his veep.

[MADem]

125. The Brethren are a bifucated entity.

I'd say to find an equivalent in the US (not exact, not with the same degree of "clout," but on the same lines), we'd have to elect a public servant active in politics who was also a lay leader at a Catholic church, "in" with all the cardinals, and with a position of supreme importance in, say, the Vincent de Paul society.

MB has two arms--a political arm, and a "social services" arm. The political arm does all the agitating and demanding that the Jews be pushed into the sea; the social services arm provides pensions for widows, education for orphans and the children of "martyrs," food and shelter for the poor, medical care for the poor, that kind of thing. No widow goes homeless and her children will not go hungry if the husband was a member--it's like an insurance policy. People willingly give to the organization--not much, it's not onerous, just a bit from everyone--and in return they know that their family will not starve. The Brethren do serve a purpose in a country that doesn't 'step up' when it comes to serving the destitute. They step in and provide real, ongoing help that can be relied upon for the long term where the government does not. This is a big part of the reason why people who don't necessarily give a shit about drowning all the Jews or taking back Israel for the Palestinian people will back them with enthusiasm.

Of course, all that anti-Jew blather is as much as part of the fabric of life as Christmas carols are a part of American life, even if one doesn't celebrate the holidays. It's like segregation used to be in the south back in the old days--it was "expected" and no one thought a thing of it until the black guy or the white guy turned up in the "wrong" place (with more consequences for the black guy, natch...!). Every Ramadan, to great fanfare, they play Elders of Zion on the tee vee and it's greeted like a Christmas Story or It's a Wonderful Life--'must-see TV. It's pretty ghastly, too, down to the Jews baking bread with baby blood and all those kinds of hateful fictions that have gained currency in the Arab world down the years. But ghastly or not, it's...accepted. No one points at the television and says "OH, that's just AWFUL! Why are we perpetuating these falsehoods for religious glorification?" Naaah, they all say pass the snacks, this is the event of the holiday season.

That's a bit of a simplistic explanation, but it's pretty accurate.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

137. Your first paragraph seemed to describe Santorum

with his big-time commitment to the Catholic church.

Fortunately, the Catholic church seems to have lost interest in any more Crusades to liberate the Holy Land.

[clang1]

126. How many people here would complain if there were? I seriously wonder that myself n/t

[4th law of robotics]

115. If it were a Christian nation and an overtly Christian organization took control

people would be calling it a disaster and no one would have a problem with that. Imagine of the republicans changed their name to the "Christian brotherhood" and won the next election. Do you suppose anyone on here would take issue with that? I suspect one or two might.

Fearing overt religious fundamentalism doesn't mean you hate that religion.

[clang1]

121. BUT TOO MANY PROBABLY WOULD NOT

Come, be honest at least while trying to make your point. Sheesh. Otherwise the point is plain LOST in the whitespace of your post.

re: Fearing overt religious fundamentalism doesn't mean you hate that religion.

Very true and about all that I can make sense of.

[Scurrilous]

122. Egypt to see first female, Coptic vice-presidents: Morsi team

Morsi plans to appoint the first ever female and Coptic vice-presidents in a bid towards inclusiveness, an advisor said

<snip>

"Ahmed Deif, a policy advisor to Egypt’s president-elect Mohamed Morsi, stressed that Morsi will be a leader for all Egyptians and will appoint Coptic Christian and female vice-presidents.

"President-elect Morsi is not only backed by people with an Islamic tendency or ideology; he is now backed by all the people of the revolution, and this is definitely a dramatic positive card that he can play while negotiating with the SCAF," Deif told CNN.

"One of the first decisions will be appointing different vice-presidents. One of them will be a woman, for the first time in Egyptian history - not just modern history, but all Egyptian history, for a woman to take that position.

"Also, he has decided to appoint a Christian vice-president, and they will not just be a vice-president who will represent a certain gender or sect, but a vice-president who is powerful and empowered and will deal with critical files within the presidential cabinet."

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/36/122/46229/Presidential-elections-/Presidential-elections-news/Egypt-to-see-first-female,-Coptic-vicepresidents-M.aspx

[clang1]

123. More good news

Too many people cannot see past their own noses and they also like to advertise that fact.

[totodeinhere]

131. That's quite a turnaround from Morsi's statement that the Coptic Christians should either

convert to Islam or leave the country.

[MADem]

133. He's been watching Mitt Romney's reels--no one flip-flops better~! nt

[sandyshoes17]

127. This we be a fight for awhile

I saw a woman speaking from Egypt, she said she didn't like either candidate, but it is only the beginning. She was part of the revolution. She said she knew this would not be the end that they would start mobilizing and getting involved with politics to keep pulling them their way. She's knows it's just a start in the right direction. But she ended by saying we'll see what happens.

[Uncle Joe]

140. Congratulations to the Mohamed Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood, rule wisely and respect democracy.

Thanks for the thread, hlthe.

[clang1]

141. All that we can say, and we need to support them and the

Egyptian people. I think that this is all that is being asked of everyone in this affair..... We need to support democracy.

[clang1]

142. Egyptian peace being sabotaged

The office of Egypt's president-elect Mohammed Mursi is to take legal action







Last edited Wed Jun 27, 2012, 04:43 PM USA/ET - Edit history (5)

Egypt 'to sue' Iran's Fars news agency over Mursi report
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18614699

The office of Egypt's president-elect Mohammed Mursi is to take legal action against the Iranian Fars news agency for fabricating an interview with him, the official Mena news agency said.

LIE:
Fars quoted Mr Mursi saying the two countries should improve ties.



LIE: Such a move would go against Western efforts to isolate Tehran over its controversial nuclear programme.
Such a move would go against Western efforts to isolate Tehran over its controversial nuclear programme.


DO YOU PEOPLE SEE HOW THIS STUFF WORKS? SEE IT.


THIS IS PROPAGANDA BY DECEPTION.

WAKE UP.



TRUTH: MURSI DOES NOT WANT RADICALIZATION.

AND PEOPLE THIS IS EVEN BEING PRINTED BY BBC.



THIS IS HAPPENING ALL OVER AMERICA.

OPEN YOUR EYES TO IT.

[clang1]

143. NO TRUTH HERE EXCEPT FOR THIS

NO TRUTH HERE EXCEPT FOR THIS

TRUTH: MURSI DOES NOT WANT RADICALIZATION.

the remainder are meaningless facts and the LIES.

[MADem]

144. BBC is debunking, not endorsing the false Persian report.

Mena quoted Mr Mursi's spokesman, Yasir Ali, as saying the interview was entirely made up.

Ties between Cairo and Tehran have been frosty since Iran's 1979 Islamic Revolution and the Egyptian-Israeli peace deal of the same year.

The two countries do not have full diplomatic relations but each has a mission in the other's capital.

We give Egypt well over a billion dollars a year in mil aid alone. They're not going to go NEAR Iran. They already get all the oil they need from the Saudis.