Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
Mon May 16, 2016, 04:43 PM May 2016

Israeli divers uncover trove of shipwrecked Roman treasure

Source: Chron

CAESAREA, Israel (AP) — A chance discovery by two divers uncovered Israel's biggest find of underwater Roman-era artifacts in three decades, archaeologists said Monday as the priceless objects were showcased for the first time.

The treasures were found last month by divers Ran Feinstein and Ofer Raanan when they came across an ancient shipwreck near the port of Caesarea.
The Israel Antiquities Authority sent its divers to investigate and recover the precious Roman-era cargo, which includes bronze statues, lamps, jars, animal-shaped objects, anchors and thousands of coins with images of Roman emperors Constantine and Licinius.

Some of the objects date to the fourth century, while others are from the first and second centuries, said Jacob Sharvit, director of marine archaeology at the IAA.



Read more: http://www.chron.com/entertainment/article/Israeli-divers-uncover-trove-of-shipwrecked-Roman-7481856.php

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Israeli divers uncover trove of shipwrecked Roman treasure (Original Post) left-of-center2012 May 2016 OP
But what have the Romans ever done for us? iandhr May 2016 #1
given the precedent for the Colombian shipwreck, will Italy claim it? MisterP May 2016 #2
That would be interesting since Italy didn't exist as a state back then. TheBlackAdder May 2016 #4
"Italy didn't exist as a state back then" left-of-center2012 May 2016 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author TheBlackAdder May 2016 #3
Caesarea, an area destroyed for strategic purposes. happyslug May 2016 #6

TheBlackAdder

(28,205 posts)
4. That would be interesting since Italy didn't exist as a state back then.
Mon May 16, 2016, 06:11 PM
May 2016

.


Other states ruled it at various times.


At one point, Rome was in ruins and even the Papacy relocated to France.


.

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
5. "Italy didn't exist as a state back then"
Mon May 16, 2016, 08:04 PM
May 2016

No, but the Roman Empire in Italy didn't fall until 476 A.D. and as the 'treasure' dates to fourth century, while others are from the first and second centuries, the current government of Italy might have some claim.

Response to left-of-center2012 (Original post)

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
6. Caesarea, an area destroyed for strategic purposes.
Mon May 16, 2016, 10:08 PM
May 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea

The article on Caesarea says it was "It was abandoned after the Mamluk conquest". That is true, but it fails to put that conquest in perspective. Starting in 1100 the Crusades had started and run its course. In 1204, the Fourth Crusades (the only Crusade ever CONDEMNED by the Pope while it was on going) attacked and took Constantinople, then the largest city in the world. This upset the whole balance in the Middle East, Constantinople went into rapid decline (so that by the time the Turks took it in 1453, it was a shadow of itself, a collection of small towns within the ancient walls). This broke up any effort by the Greeks and other Orthodox to support the Crusades. In 1258, the Mongols took Baghdad, the Mongols, who had taken most of the major cities of China by then, called Baghdad the largest city they had even taken, the locals told the Mongols the Baghdad o 1258 was still smaller then Constantinople had been in 1204 (Thus why we know Constantinople was the largest city in the world in 1204, something it had held since about 451, when it replaced Rome after the Vandals had sacked Rome that year).

Anyway, after the Fall of Baghdad in 1258, the Mumluks build up its forces to fight the Mongols. The Pope Forbade the Crusaders from joining the Mongols against the Mumluks, the Pope was silent as to the Crusaders joining with the Mumluks (Technically such joining of forces was FORBIDDEN by Islamic law, but had occurred before and after). The Pope's ruling and Islamic traditions did not prevent the Crusaders from supporting the Mumluks through other means (including given them cover as their moved through Palestine and permitting them to received supplies via Crusader held Acre, the best port in Palestine at that time period). While technically no Crusader joined with the Mumluks, it is possible some did, neither the Crusaders or the Munluks were looking to close as their troops, for both feared the Mongols.

Anyway, do to the need for the Mongols to pick a new leader, their local commander had to return to Mongolia along with most of his men. He left a small force and the Mumluks saw an opportunity to destroy it and took it and with some aid from the Crusaders defeated the Mongols in the battle of Ain Jalut in 1260 AD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ain_Jalut

Afterward, the Mumluks actually overthrew the General who had won the battle, and replaced him with one of his lieutenants The Mumluks realized their had barely won and needed the help of the Crusaders to do so. The Crucial help was the supplies the troops needed while marching through Palestine. This lead to an entire different approach to Palestine from the Mumluks. Since the Conquest of Palestine in the 600s through the Crusades, both Christians and Moslems had made effort to maintain the infrastructure of Palestine. The Mumluks continued this in terms roads so news could be spread from Syria to Egypt quickly, but the Mumluks also started a policy of destroying any infrastructure that could be used to feed an army, including hay and grain production. Wells along post roads were maintained, but wells outside those areas, used to maintain crops for horses and oxen were destroyed. Sheep herding was encouraged, for it prevented grass growing enough to support horses and oxen. Ports were destroyed so that troops and supplies from Europe could NOT be sent to support an army marching through Palestine (The Mumluks actions would be enhanced by the start of the Little Ice Age starting about 1350, that in many ways finished off what the Mumluks had started).

This was a deliberate policy, which included destroying the last of the Crusader's held towns. Unlike previous taking of towns and cities, the walls and infrastructure was NOT rebuilt after their were destroyed when the Mumluks took the town or city. Some natural harbors could NOT be destroyed, such as Jaffa (part of Modern Day Tel Aviv), Acre and Haifa (Both on the same bay, the Bay of Haifa, at the end of the Jezereel valley), but it was easy to destroy artificial harbors like Caesarea.

As to the natural Harbors, most were destroyed, and NOT permitted to be rebuilt by the Mumluks or later the Ottoman Turks, they claim do to fears of new Crusaders, but the real fear was whoever was ruling Baghdad and Iran at that time period and Acre or Haifa could have been good ports for any invading army to use to resupply itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamluk_Sultanate_(Cairo)

One comment. Modern Day Israel and historical Palestine share the same bit of geography, Jerusalem is located in the Hills and mountains of Eastern Palestine/Israel and thus easier to defend then the coast and thus NOT part of the Mumluk's plan to destroy Palestine ability to supporting an invading army. Jaffa and Caesarea are on the coast, on the plain that extends from the Jezreel valley in the North to Egypt itself (and includes the Gaza Strip). Haifa and Acre are on the coast but in the Jezreel Valley.

Egypt had historically wanted (and this goes back to Ancient Pharaohic times) to hold the coast of Palestine up to and including the Jezreel Valley. The reason for this is simple, on plains, which is what is between Jezreel and Egypt along the coast, there is no natural defense till you get to the Nile itself. You can hold back an enemy if you hold a ridge, which you have two of in the Jezeel valley. Thus if you want to multiply the force of your army, you want to hold one of those two ridges (and ideally both of them). This is also true of anyone whose base is modern day Turkey (in Ancient Time the Hittites then the Assyrians, then the Greeks, then the Romans, then the Byzantines, then the Crusaders, then the Seljuk Turks then the Ottomans) and Mesopotamia (Ancient Babylonia, then Ancient Persia, then the Mongols, then Modern Iran).

All three major power (First being Egypt, the second being Southern Mesopotamia along with Iran, and the Third being Asia Minor and Northern Mesopotamia) want to control that valley, for it is the best place to defend against an invading army from Egypt AND a good place to launch an attack on Egypt (and a good way for either Asia Minor or Mesopotamia to stab the other in the back if they attack Egypt). This is the valley were several important battles have been fought, including the first recorded battle in history, which was between Egypt and the Hittites, various battles mentioned in the Bible, Alexanders the Great first defeat of his Persian Enemy, The Roman Defeat of invading Parthian Armies, defeat of and by Roman Armies on and by Persian Armies, the final defeat of Byzantine Armies during the Arab Conquest, the defeat of several attempts to drive out the Crusaders, defeat of the Mongols mentioned above, the defeat of Mumluks by the Turks, the Turks defeat by Napoleon (and his force retreat when the Turks massed their troops to drive him out), and the Turks final defeat as they were driven out of Palestine during WWI. Armageddon is suppose to occur in that valley (and some Historians hav said it has occur, many of the above battles were the Armageddons of their time period).

Thus Caesarea was destroyed to deny anyone invading Palestine from the North, to be able to get any supplies to support their army, as had the Mumluks been resupplied via Acre for the Battle of Jin Jalut. Acre, Haifa and Jafa were destroyed for the same reason, but harder to destroy for they all were natural harbors, not an Artificial Harbor as in Caesarea
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Israeli divers uncover tr...