Japanese city balks at US aircraft deployment

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Japanese city balks at US aircraft deployment
By ERIC TALMADGE | Associated Press – 4 hrs ago.

TOKYO (AP) — Safety concerns after a recent crash have put plans to briefly deploy the U.S. Osprey aircraft to a Japanese city on hold, officials said Tuesday.

Opposition to the plan to temporarily base the helicopter-like planes in the city of Iwakuni has been rising since the fatal crash in April left two Marines dead in Morocco.

Japan's defense minister said Tuesday he may go to the city of Iwakuni to persuade local officials to accept the temporary deployment. But after meeting with ministry officials on Monday Iwakuni's mayor said he needs more assurances that the aircraft is safe.

The U.S. military wants to replace aging helicopters on the island of Okinawa with the Osprey after bringing them to Iwakuni for about two weeks later this year for assembly and testing. Local approval is not essential for the project to go ahead, but Japan's central government prefers to have the support of local officials.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/japanese-city-balks-us-aircraft-deployment-050232877.html

[MADem]

1. I can't say as I blame them. Those things go down HARD, and Iwakuni has some dense neighborhoods.

Ospreys are a poor fit for Oki as well--even in the less populated north, there are plenty of hamlets that could find themselves in harm's way.

[hack89]

2. Ospreys have an excellent safety record

now that they are operational and the Marines have some experience in operating them. They have performed very well in combat. They are no more dangerous than any other military aircraft.

[MADem]

4. Well, I dunno--they had a crash just a bit over a month ago.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57412629/two-u.s-troops-die-in-helicopter-crash-in-morocco/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_V-22_Osprey

On 11 April 2012, an MV-22 from the VMM-261 on USS Iwo Jima (LHD-7) crashed near Tan Tan and Agadir, Morocco, during a joint training exercise, named "African Lion". Two Marines were killed and two others were seriously injured, and the aircraft was lost.[18][19][20]

And they've had more than their share previous to that. I don't agree with your take on this particular aircraft. I think it is still "buggy" and I will wager that the families of the dozens who have died in the things would agree with me.

[hack89]

5. They flew over 100,000 hours in Afganastan without incident

there will be accidents - flying combat aircraft is a dangerous job. But it has a very good operational record.

[MADem]

6. They also crashed in Afghanistan (4/2010).

http://www.military.com/news/article/osprey-crash-kills-4-in-afghanistan.html

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- A U.S. Air Force tilt-rotor aircraft crashed in southeastern Afghanistan, killing three servicemembers and one government contractor, NATO said Friday.
Other personnel aboard were injured and were taken to a military base for treatment, NATO said.
The CV-22 Osprey went down about 7 miles (11 kilometers) from Qalat, the capital of Zabul province, NATO said. The cause of the crash was under investigation.

If I had a choice of platforms and Osprey was one of 'em, I'd take the other one. That's just my read. I know how long that thing was in development (I saw early mockups back in the 70s) and IMO, they still haven't gotten it entirely right. Better, to me, isn't good enough. YMMV.

[hack89]

8. We expect to lose planes in combat

Last edited Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:59 PM - Edit history (1)

I am not saying it is zero. The issue is the accident rate - number of flight hours divided by accidents. By your standard, every aircraft is too dangerous to fly near civilians.

The Marines have stated that the Osprey has the safest flight record of all their rotary winged aircraft. Your information is outdated.

[MADem]

9. I don't think that crash was combat-related.

In fact, the brass tried to lean on the PIO, a mere BGEN, to change his report to blame the dead pilot instead of the aircraft:

Brig. Gen. Donald Harvel, president of the accident investigation board, said he believes engine problems brought down the special operations Osprey on its landing approach. Lt. Gen. Kurt Cichowski, to whom Harvel answered during the investigation, argues aircrew errors caused the crash.

Harvel cited engine problems in his report; Cichowski wrote a dissent that he released with the report Dec. 15.

Cichowski, a fighter pilot, declined to comment on the dispute. He is now the CIA’s associate director for military affairs; Harvel, a mobility pilot, spoke with Air Force Times over the telephone Dec. 28 and Jan. 5 from his home near Atlanta. He retired in September from the Air National Guard and now works for Delta Air Lines.

“There was absolutely a lot of pressure to change my report,” Harvel said. “My heart and brain said it was not pilot error. I stuck with what I thought was the truth.”

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2011/01/air-force-generals-clash-on-osprey-crash-012211w/

I'm inclined to believe Harvel. I also don't think, when it comes to these platforms, that the issue is one of averages. It's a crap shoot every time you hop aboard. IMO, anyway--your mileage clearly varies. And if you don't think the USMC and other Pentagon brass have an agenda when it comes to defending this machine, despite the numbers of Marines who have died in them, I have a bridge to sell you (in Iwakuni!).

[hack89]

10. It specifically says it was a combat loss.

The April 9 crash in Afghanistan was the first loss of a CV-22 Osprey in combat. Two of the three cockpit crew members — pilot Maj. Randell Voas, 43, and flight engineer Senior Master Sgt. James Lackey, 45 — died attempting a night landing at a desert landing zone.

[MADem]

11. Oh, please. It was an accident IN a combat zone. Combat did not "cause" that accident.

The PIO said it was an ENGINE issue; his boss tried to blame the dead pilot. No one -- not even the dissenting weaseler touting the party line--ascribed "combat" as a cause for that accident.

USMC has had an agenda about this a/c for decades. Everyone in the Pentagon knows it. No one will dare say shit because too many people are making money off that widowmaker. You end up retiring as a BGEN if you open your mouth!

Here is just one example of 'twisted logic' in defense of that hot mess of an aircraft:

It’s an aircraft with a reputation for falling from the sky. But on at least one occasion, the U.S. military’s controversial V-22 Osprey tiltrotor — a hybrid transport that takes off like a helicopter and cruises like an airplane, thanks to its rotating engine nacelles — did just the opposite. It flew upward, out of control of its pilots.

On March 27, 2006, at a Marine Corps air base in New River, North Carolina, an MV-22 assigned to Medium Tiltrotor Training Squadron 204 experienced an unplanned surge in engine power as the three-man crew was preparing for a flight. “That caused the aircraft to inadvertently lift off the deck approximately 30 feet,” Marine spokesman Maj. Shawn Haney explained. “It came back down … there was major damage sustained to the right wing and the right engine.”

Luckily, the three crewmembers were unhurt. The cost to repair the self-flying Osprey totaled $7,068,028, according to the Naval Safety Center, which tracks all Navy and Marine aircraft mishaps. An investigation by the Navy and manufacturers Bell and Boeing resulted in tweaks to the V-22?s engine controls.

Yet the Marines and the Naval Safety Center ultimately decided that the Osprey’s dangerous joyride didn’t count as a serious flying accident, known in Pentagon parlance as a “Class A flight mishap.” The reason, said Capt. Brian Block, a Marine spokesman: The aircraft wasn’t supposed to take off just then; therefore, it’s not a flight problem. If a V-22 suffers damage while preparing to launch or after landing, or if the crew does not explicitly command the aircraft to take off but it does anyways, then the accident doesn’t count as a flight accident.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/10/osprey-down/

I can only provide four paragraphs, but that report is seven pages of "This Aircraft Sucks." Worth reading. When one in every fifteen aircraft built has crashed, burned, or otherwise been damaged, you've got a PROBLEM. And you've also got--if you are going to be frank about it--a cover-up.

Please take the time to read the entire report. I'd be surprised if your faith wasn't shaken.

It would be funny, only way too many kids have died on those flying coffins.

Like I said, I'll wait for another ride--you can have my seat.

[MADem]

12. Another one just crashed in FL. These things have issues.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/14/us/florida-osprey-crash/index.html

[Judi Lynn]

3. I had to get a closer look at that wonderful bridge in your post, Kintai Bridge:

[center]

[/center]
Beyond beautiful! Thank you for choosing that image.

[MADem]

7. It is a stunner, isn't it? Very unique! nt